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End-game Research threshold...question


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#1 tynan

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:44 PM

I can remember a point where if you researched a certain End-game tech (could be the Martian Solution? Or Alien Origins? Or maybe as late as Cydonia or Bust?) that the game would suddenly "ramp-up" into Overdrive and the aliens would start throwing everything they had at you. I can remember fighting Battleships all over the place...the geoscape was swarming with them it seemed...
I was wondering if this was hard-coded into the game to where it would trigger that onslaught once you researched those three end-game techs?

#2 yarrow

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:34 AM

alien origins is not an end game tech
its available after first live alien has been researched

so in theory, it can be available in the very first month of the game
of course if ... YOU ... research it only in later ( or end game ) stages
then it is end game tech ^_^

also remember that in the later stages of the game you have
plasma guns and fusion balls which can destroy smaller ships in just one shot

so you only 'do' missions on larger ship like supply/terror/battle ships or medium ones like abducters
this can create 'illusion' of end game onslaught trigger you described

please consider reading ufopaedia.org about missions
http://www.ufopaedia...=Alien_Missions
http://www.ufopaedia...pearance_Ratios

yarrow

ps.
I don't know if it is hardcoded
only programmers do :D

#3 NKF

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:55 PM

Alien origins is technically a part of the end-game research path. It's the start of the end. I mean that both as a joke, and literally. ;)

There certainly are rumours, but the UFO types tend to be more related to what sort of missions get scheduled each month rather than get controlled by what tech you get. At the very start of the game, not a lot of missions are active. But as more appear and more diverse types of missions get arranged, the UFO diversity starts to change.

Recently I learned that chained alien missions like 'base attack' and 'alien base' missions where multiple waves of scouts are sent beforehand will graduallyincrease the UFO size if you are too successful at shooting down the scouts. If you keep attacking them, they'll eventually upgrade to using Battleships just for the scouting phase.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 14 November 2011 - 12:01 AM.

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#4 kyrub

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:57 PM

I can remember a point where if you researched a certain End-game tech (could be the Martian Solution? Or Alien Origins? Or maybe as late as Cydonia or Bust?) that the game would suddenly "ramp-up" into Overdrive and the aliens would start throwing everything they had at you. I can remember fighting Battleships all over the place...the geoscape was swarming with them it seemed...
I was wondering if this was hard-coded into the game to where it would trigger that onslaught once you researched those three end-game techs?


Yes, I think Alien Origins is the tech that triggers the extra difficulty. Either this or reaching a time limit (13 months? cannot remember) creates the effect you are talking about. Excellent observation.

#5 Eledhel

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 03:25 AM

I can remember a point where if you researched a certain End-game tech (could be the Martian Solution? Or Alien Origins? Or maybe as late as Cydonia or Bust?) that the game would suddenly "ramp-up" into Overdrive and the aliens would start throwing everything they had at you. I can remember fighting Battleships all over the place...the geoscape was swarming with them it seemed...
I was wondering if this was hard-coded into the game to where it would trigger that onslaught once you researched those three end-game techs?


Yes, I think Alien Origins is the tech that triggers the extra difficulty. Either this or reaching a time limit (13 months? cannot remember) creates the effect you are talking about. Excellent observation.


I don't think Alien Origins triggers that, I usually try to research it pretty fast. That way I can use the sectoid leader i try to get from the first terror ship to give me both PSI and "The martian solution". I have never witnessed the overdrive scenario and tend to side with NKF on this topic.

Edited by Eledhel, 15 November 2011 - 03:26 AM.


#6 kyrub

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:17 AM

I don't think Alien Origins triggers that, I usually try to research it pretty fast. That way I can use the sectoid leader i try to get from the first terror ship to give me both PSI and "The martian solution". I have never witnessed the overdrive scenario and tend to side with NKF on this topic.

The technology is the one called "Alien Origins - leader" (e.g. the second one after the Alien Origins and before Alien Origins - commander) in the classic Xcomutil.cfg file. I don't know which one it is in the game - Martian Solution, perhaps?

Either the knowledge of this tech or month >(14-game difficulty) gives you the extra alien activity. Good observation from tynan.

Edited by kyrub, 15 November 2011 - 05:18 AM.


#7 Eledhel

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:25 AM

I don't think Alien Origins triggers that, I usually try to research it pretty fast. That way I can use the sectoid leader i try to get from the first terror ship to give me both PSI and "The martian solution". I have never witnessed the overdrive scenario and tend to side with NKF on this topic.

The technology is the one called "Alien Origins - leader" (e.g. the second one after the Alien Origins and before Alien Origins - commander) in the classic Xcomutil.cfg file. I don't know which one it is in the game - Martian Solution, perhaps?

Either the knowledge of this tech or month >(14-game difficulty) gives you the extra alien activity. Good observation from tynan.


Let me begin by stating that I have absolutely no knowledge of the internal processes that determine alien activity but I don't seem to recall any sudden increase in activity. It could be possible that I simply finish the game fast enough so that I don't violate the trigger or it occurs in specific versions of the game.

Has anyone ever uncovered a trigger condition in the executable that would suggest such a trigger even exists?

#8 NKF

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:35 PM

The end-game tech consists of Alien Origins, The Martian Solution and Cydonia or Bust.

If any of these techs do trigger a surge in alien activity, then it mustn't be any more unusual than the normal level of activity you get mid to late-game. One way to check for sure is to research these topics in the first month of the game where the game hasn't got a lot of activity and see what happens in the following two months.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 15 November 2011 - 05:39 PM.

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#9 kyrub

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:38 PM

Has anyone ever uncovered a trigger condition in the executable that would suggest such a trigger even exists?

Actually, I know the trigger only from the exe code, not from the game itself.

Thinking more about the issue, the trigger works only at the start of the month, where alien missions are being set-up. So, if you complete Martian Solution and do Cydonia tech quickly (probably before the end of the month, which is not unusual at this stage of the game), you may miss the effect entirely.

The effect should be visible during the 11th month of the game on Impossible, regardless of the tech status. I am not sure about the actual reach (what it does specifically). It certainly creates some sort of missions with random race.

EDIT:
I think it creates an automatic extra human base attack.

Edited by kyrub, 15 November 2011 - 05:51 PM.


#10 NKF

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:21 PM

Increasing the chance of base attacks may be the more plausible outcome of this trigger. In any case, I gave this a trial and had alien origins researched in January and played until May.

I didn't really see any unusual increase in UFO activity. There was one very early battleship in March, but I suspect only because I was a bit too aggressive with shooting down UFOs (heavily modified the basic cannon and interceptor to make the geoscape test much quicker).

I haven't tried this with The Martian Solution and Cydonia or Bust topics yet though, so would be interesting to see what effect they'll have.

- NKF

P. S: Coincidentally, a 255 HE weapon with 1% snap at 150% - 200% accuracy is ridiculously fun.
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#11 kyrub

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:46 AM

It's definitely Martian solution and not the Alien origin tech. I made a mistake.

#12 Gustarx

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 12:25 PM

Iv noticed that after finishing 'The Martian Solution'-project the first ABase has been build. The same day to be excact, 7 May 1999. I guess it was planned by the AI at a sooner moment, but not sure about that. The AI is certainly the 'Enemy Unknown', ;-) . I noticed that the location of the A-Base was, reasoned from the perspect of the AI, very logic. (see attachment for the locations of the bases).


____
Edit:
- 1 composed attachment is better then 7 different, I guess

Attached Thumbnails

  • UfoBaseLocations1.jpg

Edited by Gustarx, 28 November 2011 - 12:59 PM.