49 replies to this topic

[Tsereve]

Why doesn't anyone every lock their doors during terror missions? You'd think at 1:00am, they'd be asleep. If they sleep with their doors unlocked, I suppose it's their problem. Still, and I though those civies were stupid before. . . <_<

[Admiral Harkov]

Pure stupid, then when you want to enter and shoot down the alien... they lock the door with their bodies. Maybe they're ecologist. Or that's because the aliens, oh see what lovely reaper we got, don't let it escape, block the doors!

[sir_schwick]

Mind Control, duh. The aliens tell all the humans subconciously to unlock their doors and block X-COM troopers. BTW, can you MC civies?

[Tsereve]

well, you can probe them, but i dont know about control

[Blehm 98]

yes, you can control them, but it makes them turn enemy and you can't get score for losing them or keeping them (doesn't count as civilian lost or civilian survived)

[StarFighter]

ah so they become free meat shields/scouts for the duration of the terror mission. handy.

[Jonaleth Irenicus]

I usually give all my soldiers Thermal Tazers (stunrods) in the first few missions. I guess you can't keep civies from being pro aliens and supporting their cause, but you certainly have the right to hit them in the head and tell the onlookers "move along, nothing to see here".

About unlocked doors, well... I guess the man of the house is not fulfilling his dutiies... or shall we say, the lady has a sudden interest in the Muton walking the streets?

[Admiral Harkov]

And when they don't do that, they've ran to the aliens before X-COM can arrive, and so in the first alien turn you get 10 civs killed. So how do they want me to protect them, eh?

[Blehm 98]

Hopefully in xenocide we will have helpful "Farmer Johns" with shotguns to help around :wink:

[Jonaleth Irenicus]

And when they don't do that, they've ran to the aliens before X-COM can arrive, and so in the first alien turn you get 10 civs killed. So how do they want me to protect them, eh?

Well I'm guessing that the same idea applies here as well. Something like;
Girl: So, must be hard having to kill all those X-Com guys to take over the world...
Muton: I guess...
Girl: Say, do you have a girlfriend or something? Back home, I mean...
*Girl snuggles closer to Muton*

About farmer Johns, are we speaking about "Got offa my property!" farmer Johns? They'd be as eager to shoot X-Com soldiers as they are aliens then...

[Blehm 98]

yeah well, if xcom soemhow convinces them to be nice, then they will be nicer towards xcom

just no house searches

[Sergio]

Yeah I always thoght all the farm buildings were barns as they don't tenmd to have much in them in terms of chattels or furniture, as compared with the Terror site cities.
I think it would also be nice if the mountain battlescape if in North America had bears or at least some hillbillys

[Blehm 98]

Mountain Goats

[sir_schwick]

At least your Personal Armour would stop the farmer's shotgun blasts.

[Danial]

I think it would be a nice touch to have animals and such if the game was re-made.

Although... *Soldier #1 was killed by random bear attack!*

[Admiral Harkov]

Yeah, and the new message "your soldier can't move because an elephant has stepped on his foot"

[SupSuper]

Yeah, and the new message "your soldier can't move because an elephant has stepped on his foot" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think that's a damn lucky soldier if the elephant just steps on his foot and not on his whole body

[Blehm 98]

okay you guys, bring this back on topic.

At least your Personal Armour would stop the farmer's shotgun blasts.

I don't know, a shotgun could kill an alien much easier than a rifle. So the shotgun hwould be able to punch through the armor

[Snakeman]

I'm not sure, I mean, the description of alien alloys was a bit vague at best. It says little about how it compares at all to any earth armor such as kevlar to even get a hint of its superiority if any. So I suppose there's still arguments for it being better than, or not as good as earth armor to tell if it'd be vulnerable to the run of the mill shotgun.

I will say however that there is no helmet/armored faceplate on the armor, so all that country bumkin would need is a head shot, but I digress

Back to topic, I think civs should be a bit more sensible in their actions (if that's even possible to apply to something as dire as a terror situation), but like, none of them seem to flee if they came upon the aliens, heck, or even X-COM if they showed up in those freaky power/flying suits.

[Hailfire22]

I'm not sure, I mean, the description of alien alloys was a bit vague at best.  It says little about how it compares at all to any earth armor such as kevlar to even get a hint of its superiority if any.  So I suppose there's still arguments for it being better than, or not as good as earth armor to tell if it'd be vulnerable to the run of the mill shotgun.

I will say however that there is no helmet/armored faceplate on the armor, so all that country bumkin would need is a head shot, but I digress

Back to topic, I think civs should be a bit more sensible in their actions (if that's even possible to apply to something as dire as a terror situation), but like, none of them seem to flee if they came upon the aliens, heck, or even X-COM if they showed up in those freaky power/flying suits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they had watched to many sci-fi movies:

"Oh God! Honey, there's something outside!"
"Don't worry dear, it'll somehow get killed."
"Alright then. I think I'll just watch it through the peep hole in the front door...."

[Sergio]

Yeah that would be great.
"Ute Schenkel unconcious" due to being knocked over by a fleeing civilian.
or due to being hit on the head by a frying pan weilded by a confused civilian.

One of the funniest things I've seen on a Terror site is a civilian walking back and forth as if nothing has happened on the Alien turn inside a warehouse that was missing roof, walls, floor everything. Both the Crysalid(the target) and the civilian had survived 3 blaster bomb attacks.

[Danial]

It is true that civilians seem to be absolutely oblivious to the fact that there are scary aliens running around their town

The "If you see an alien, then run!" line must be missing from their AI script

[SupSuper]

Yeah that would be great.
"Ute Schenkel unconcious" due to being knocked over by a fleeing civilian.
or due to being hit on the head by a frying pan weilded by a confused civilian.

One of the funniest things I've seen on a Terror site is a civilian walking back and forth as if nothing has happened on the Alien turn inside a warehouse that was missing roof, walls, floor everything.  Both the Crysalid(the target) and the civilian had survived 3 blaster bomb attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe the civilian was Clark Kent

haven't you guys ever thought that the main point of civilians being bloody stupid is for the game to be HARDER, instead of realistic? i mean come on, it can't get any harder than trying to shoot aliens when there's civilians running in front of them, or trying to enter buildings and finding entrances constantly blocked by them, or even trying to save them when they seem to be attracted to shots like magnets or something.

Edited by SupSuper, 23 December 2004 - 07:15 AM.

[Snakeman]

Actually I had thought about that and you've got a point there about original civ behavior. Their being stupid actually does make the missions harder for the simple fact that you can't even predict their pathfinding routines.

I do however think it could be changed just slightly. I think that if they see them (or are frightened by you later on when your dressed like an astronaught ), their movements should still be random, only now their moving at running speeds (or as much as thier puny stamina/tus will carry them) in a different direction.

Remember too that unless the new game will have exit points for units to get away, they'll all still be stuck within the confines of the map how ever that is defined. So instead of having the civs meander around at walking speed, only have those civs who spot scary things move at faster clips around the map.

I don't know about you though, but much of the time I didn't have to be overly careful about my explosives, but I think that if you could make civs bolt around in actual "terror", it could become more challenging than it had been.

In any case, I think something should be done with the Psi Resistance/Strength (if not skill here) to the enemy units, just on these missions anyway. Cause when I get Psi, terror sites aren't as challenging. I think with higher Psi Defense (again, not so much skill here, since you want to hamper your Psi users here---maybe tweak it up for later terror sites), and civs who actually panic and move like they're paniced, you'll have a more challenging experience than the original.

Edited by Snakeman, 23 December 2004 - 04:48 PM.

[sir_schwick]

I think civvies should run from Aliens, power+ armoured X-COM, and live fire. Those are all things that spell danger, so civvies spot it, they run the other way. If they are trapped, they simply duck down and pray.

[SupSuper]

I do however think it could be changed just slightly.  I think that if they see them (or are frightened by you later on when your dressed like an astronaught ), their movements should still be random, only now their moving at running speeds (or as much as thier puny stamina/tus will carry them) in a different direction.

Remember too that unless the new game will have exit points for units to get away, they'll all still be stuck within the confines of the map how ever that is defined.  So instead of having the civs meander around at walking speed, only have those civs who spot scary things move at faster clips around the map.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's exactly how the civvies in Evil Genius work. and let me tell you, it doesn't make them any less annoying or "get in the way", they still make me want to shoot them on sight

[NKF]

Here's a slightly related thought regarding civiians:

While the civilians are running around outside in a complete state of panic (no doubt having their minds affected psionically causes their irrational behaviour, but that's not what I'm getting at), why on earth do the aliens wait patiently for you to arrive before they start opening fire on the hapless populace? Oh, they kill everyone if you don't turn up, but why not do it right away?

I have my thoughts on this, but I'll just leave the question up for pondering.

- NKF

[sir_schwick]

I thought the aliens dropped the guys off and then picked them up several minutes later. The window would be small to catch them on the ground, but strong air presence would keep the pickup away, forcing them to fight as soldiers. There should be tons of corpses and booby traps though.

[Snakeman]

I'm not sure NKF. Although some window dressing might be nice...Just to show that they'd been hard at work already slaughtering folks when you came on the scene (doesn't necessarily have to effect the point outcome of the "remaining" civs you do see alive for the mission)...ya know, paint few civ corpses on the map for atmosphere.

Alternatively, some sites could already begin with a few civs already in their cross hairs you couldn't do anything for that will always hit your score for the mission. Perhaps something to ponder for higher difficulty settings, especially when you reach Psi...just plant a few aliens and civs out of any line of site to any other alien units you might Psi, so you start the mission with some potential of taking a hit one way or another. I'd just as soon like to see it in some point loss for the mission near the beginning if it got too easy with Psi.

[Torgen]

Or....

Add code so that the longer you take to get there, the more civilians are killed before you start on the Battlescape. Give a little time before the civvies start dying "off-screen" to give you time enough to get a ship up and on-site, but after several hours, the civvies start getting knocked off.

Shame on you for dragging your feet when innocent people are in mortal danger!

[Tsereve]

Sounds like a good idea. That's put an end to keeping Terror Sites active by sending continuous ships out, then having them return.

[Adun_Toridas]

1. The civilians wake up for the noise.

2. At least some of them should use knifes for melee attack (not too efective, but something is something).

3. It would also be a good idea to have dogs on certain citties, those could be mind controlled to bite the aliens.. i´ve got a new idea for xenocide.

4. Animals are good. Perhaps some of them would be usefull (like un age of empires).

5. Are there no policemen with pistols to repel the menace (or perhaps to help), that would be a good idea.

6. Civilians should run... as someone said before.

7. About the ones who block the doors... perhaps they´re of greenpeace...

8. Perhaps the girls outside are not good girls or perhaps not girls....

[Blehm 98]

darned enviromentalists wacko's will do anything to harm humans and save "wildlife" and such. , a croud of protesting hippies with signs saying "The aliens are friends" and such, and then you have to kill them because they'll attack you with signs

lo-l, i can't spell sign, keep trying to spell it sine (stupid smilie)

[SJimenez]

I think it would be cool if humans could get some earth-based armor as opposed to the bodybags and custodian suits they are wearing right now.

[jman4117]

They probably have kevlar in the uniforms. They have about 8 armour after all, a bit much for a set of coveralls.

[NKF]

If you have the chance, compare your overalls against the armour levels on sectoid soldiers, on super human.

- NKF

[Zombie]

Good point there, NKF.

We tend to think unarmored soldiers have terrible armor, but Sectoids (any rank) are much, much worse:

"Unarmored" X-COM soldier: 12 Front, 8 Left/Right, 5 Rear, 2 Under
Beginner level Sectoid: 2 Front, 2 Left/Right, 1 Rear, 1 Under
Superhuman Sectoid: 4 Front, 3 Left/Right, 2 Rear, 2 Under

Perhaps the Sectoids would be better off without their natural armor.

[SJimenez]

About this locking the doors, that why I bring laser-rifles. I just shoot out all the walls. I don't like surprises that can kill you. Or I shoot the civie and use the door. Or I yell "Frag OUT!" and hope the civie moves before his house explodes in a ball of flame.

[Blehm 98]

Yes, unarmoured soldiers actually have almost as much armor as an Etherial of veteran, just humans take 2X damage so it seems like you are unarmored. I was astonished at how much armor they have once i checked it a while ago

[Exo2000]

If only there was a way to turn that off.

[jman4117]

Good point there, NKF.

We tend to think unarmored soldiers have terrible armor, but Sectoids (any rank) are much, much worse:

"Unarmored" X-COM soldier: 12 Front, 8 Left/Right, 5 Rear, 2 Under
Beginner level Sectoid: 2 Front, 2 Left/Right, 1 Rear, 1 Under
Superhuman Sectoid: 4 Front, 3 Left/Right, 2 Rear, 2 Under

Perhaps the Sectoids would be better off without their natural armor. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well....they are naked after all.......

[Tsereve]

Then what happened to all their fancy Alien Alloys? If humans can make Personal Armor, what's wrong with aliens doing so?

Also, you'd think that heavy metal helmet with Power/Flying armor would help deflect Psi. . .but then if you tried to Psi Control a guy, would it rebound onto you so you'd have complete control over youself? No wait that's wrong. . .

[Selmak]

The aliens have lots of soldiers. And they can clone for replacements. So they're largely unconcerned by your victories against them in the field.... when you bring down a whole bunch of their ships, then they see you as a threat.

[Snakeman]

So what your saying is that for about a year/year and a half, all the aliens should be naked?

Seriously though, I like the thought that eventually the big brain would get creative with how we see aliens making progress to snuff out our successes, if not simply to slam our morale a bit.

For example, to see a Muton sporting some elaborate armor with funky helmet spikes or even a hoverpack on another variant would be shocking to see after seeing them without armor for so long. I would slowly ween them on the armors though over time, and mix up what they are as well so they aren't all cookie cutter armors you could expect the entire race to use as standard.

Some of it could be functional aspects like hovering, but most could just be for aesthetic purposes, to scare, frighten or shock you when you first see them.

[sir_schwick]

I would like to think there was a little more organization this time around. It is understandable that in '94 it would be difficult to accurately simulate such an idea. What do I mean? Here:

I always thought Mutons were the elite soldiers. I would expect besides genetic enhancements, they would have sophisticated armour and weapons. Also, combat specific missions would get even better stuff.

Aliens should have gear that reflects their expected duties and situations. Environmental or light protection for engineer types and such. Terror units would have gear that self-destructs after a time(suicide missions b/c they are expendable). Naked units make sense whenever the aliens do not expect trouble, such as areas with little X-COM presence or unobtrusive alien missions.

[Blehm 98]

Hmmm, i've never thought of it that way.. mutons as elite soldiers... hmmm...
I always thought the mutons were our equivalent of "Light Infantry," they carry everything they need or could need on their own and don't need extras.
I've always thought of the etherials as the elite strike troopers, i mean, they aren't like super gifted soldiers but they can fight on their own for a long time
Sectoids have always been my vision of the alien leaders, i mean, they are the smartest, highly gifted soldiers, have much higher psi resistance (Sectoid leaders and commanders have about 10 more psi strength than etherial equivalents), but less psi attack focused(etherial commanders and leaders have more psi attack than the sectoid counterparts)
Snakemen are Shok Troopers, so aren't super expendable but are well trained and efficient killers, but not like special forces valuable
Floaters are the alien cannon fodder, as they have very low skills, and are pretty much the worst aliens

However, I think that sectoid and maybe etherial commanders and leaders could have a 'Psionic Enhancement Helmet,' which enhances their psi abilities even more

[Mzuz]

ha...Floaters definitly have the short end of the stick. The way I see it is

Snakemen are like the spec ops. I dunno...seems to me like they'd be trying to sneak around with their all black evil evil buddies.

Ethereals are the leaders with their super mind powers HIYAH!

Sectoids are like "the scouts" they go in first to do research and to check out what the scene looks like.

Floaters are like the peons. the aliens are like..."hmm....there's a farm or something we want to destroy...hmm....there's a good chance of those damn humans showing up....uhm...ok..floaters! you go!"

And Mutons making up the rest of the army as just plain ordinary foot soldiers with their weird and useless alien buddies.

Edited by Mzuz, 18 July 2005 - 07:33 AM.

[Blehm 98]

Floaters are the like the one race that the aliens have who have both very low stats, armor, and no special abilities other than flying, which does none to nothing to increase their life expectancy

[SJimenez]

In the early game floaters were my biggest fear because sectopods didn't have the good guns/psi yet. But later I saw the psi-guys and the floaters became floating-targets for my flying suits.