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CTD - Stun Baton


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#1 dipstick

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 02:12 PM

This is my first version of the X-Net article on the stun rod.

This device, however flimsy it looks, is the single most important thing to have in your backpack. It may save your life. This rod, delievers a significant electric shock to the target's body. It automatically calculates the minimum charge required (to stun or) kill any alien. The electricity passes into the target's body, immediately incapacitating its sensory nervous system. It takes a fraction longer to fully disrupt the target's body, causing its complete nervous system to overload; which causes the involuntary spasms of every muscle in its body. (If the rod is set to kill mode, the power output increases dramatically; instead of a large jolt. the target feels extreme pain for a fraction of a second, then their heart is overstimulated; this usually causes instant death, but in some very unusual circumstances some aliens have survived.) The rod recharges itself automatically, so it never wears out. There have been instances where these rods have singlehandly won a battle when ammo was scarce.

******BRACKETS INDICATE POSSIBLE ADDITIONS******
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#2 mikker

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 02:59 PM

hmmm.....

1)I don't think you should be able to use a stun rod to kill....Just use our riffle. :D

2)Auto calculations? Okay, then why does some alien only fall when more then one stung are injected??? :huh?:

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#3 dipstick

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 03:22 PM

welllll, there are a few bugs in the program, LOL! Also, it is supposed to be an improved version! :D
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#4 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 04:24 PM

You might just want to say something about it being originally designed as a 'humane' weapon for riot control and it can drop an adult human without permanent damage (since it is a starting weapon anyways, it was built before the aliens were found). It's basically just a taser anyways.

That explains why sectoids (child-sized) fall over if you wave one in their general direction (okay, exagerating), but a Muton (gorilla-sized) will laugh at you before he rips your arm off.

Rather than recharging automatically, maybe mention recent advances in power storage making them effectivly unlimited. You still have to recharge them, but that happens in the background between missions. Sort of like the lasers...they aren't actually unlimited ammo, but it might as well be. The 'self-charging' bit may not be territory we want to get into.

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#5 GreatGold

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 06:42 PM

Hey -

Well, I think its a good first draft, but still needs some work. Below I have posted some links to real-world stun weapons. Perhaps if you use them for inspiration, we can get some good science into the entry.

http://www.selfdefen...information.htm
(Some super-basic entry level stuff into how Air Tazers work)

http://www.selfdefen...om/stun-gun.htm
(From the same place, but on Stun Guns)

http://electronics.h...m/stun-gun4.htm
(Stun Gins from the people who brought you the "How Things Work" series.)

http://www.usafa.af....97/Gordon97.htm
(Here we get into the thick of it, an official USAF report on non-lethal weapons. This is a great GREAT source.)

And lastly, the holy-grail of any weapons info:
http://www.globalsec.../non-lethal.htm

So, give em a read, and see what you want to incorperate into the entry. Also, keep in mind that the game takes place a decade or two into the future, souse some creative licence!

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#6 Breunor

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 09:10 PM

I didn't have a chance to read GG's links, but another angle you could take on the stun rod is that when it contacts a lifeform, it releases a variable charge based on the target's galvanic resistance (don't know if galvanic is the right word there..?). Electronically, it wants to deliver a certain amperage into the target to cook it, so it measures the resistance and delivers enough voltage to do the job. They aren't unlimited in their power source, we just say they have large batteries that are recharged back at the base. The tip can have a capacitor that stores the charge, and some type of rheostat(sp?) adjusts the output on contact.

I would avoid the killing strength reference, since that's never been an option in the game.

The reason why it affects aliens differently, is that the skin's resistance is different for each. The sectoids have thin skin that conducts easily, while the mutons have more of a tough hide. The auto sensor on the rod has trouble with determining the exact output, and errs on the safe side (since it's not a killing device). This allows the muton to walk away from it more often. In v1+, you could say the safety feature was removed, and the amps were upped to err on the cooked side... :D

#7 GreatGold

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 09:54 PM

Hey -

I like Breuners stuff, I think it would add an interesting aspect. Perhaps dipstick could include some of it?

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#8 dipstick

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 02:43 AM

Right then, let me think on this, I probably won't get back to you until next weekend. :idea: :hammer: :huh?: :idea:
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#9 dipstick

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 02:48 AM

Also, I think I will make some reference to the fact that the success rate improves when aliens are researched. For example, the stun rod is 20% more effective versus a muton, when muton corpses have been researched. Then it is a further 20% more effective when live mutons are captured and researched. These %s would be cumulative on the original effectiveness, to make less work.
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#10 mikker

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 04:55 AM

thats V 1.0+, but sounds cool.

What about sectoids? Will that also be an increased 20%? Or would that only be 5%? Would reapers be 40% additional?

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#11 dipstick

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 05:49 AM

I hadn't really thought that far ahead, but that is a distinct possibility, and maybe, just maybe could be incorporated into v1. You never know..... :uhoh:
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#12 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:38 PM

Here is v2 - GG has already highlighted problems - but more are helpful!

This device is combines all of the major advances in research that have been made recently. The power module is self-recharging, activating immediately as it comes into an XCOM facility; the weapon itself is built on advanced version of the riot control taser (used in the American uprising of 2004). It is still in the experimental stage at the moment - so it can be unpredictable at times. There can be no guarantee that this device will successfully subdue all the alien lifeforms that you may encounter - (as you gain more experience with it, it may gain experience with you. In other words, the more you use the Stun Rod to stun aliens, the more it will adapt to their nervous systems, and be more accurate in calculating the voltage neccessary to overwhelm them.)

This device works by delievering a massive, although controlled voltage into the target's body, which almost instantaneously paralyses the target by incapicitating the nervous system, particularly the Central Nervous System. This effect usually lasts for several hours, although as no testing has been done on alien lifeforms, this time could change.
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#13 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:39 PM

Also, I would like to have stun grenades, and possibly even guns at a later stage - although grenades for me would be a v1 thing.
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#14 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:40 PM

Oh and another thing - that stuff about it improving - it can just be rubbish if necessary, it does not need to be incorporated into the game.
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#15 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:41 PM

Hey -

Here are some comments I made, just to get people thinking.

Its a good draft, but a little loose on the scientific end.  Did you use some of the links I posted in your thread as sources, especially the globalsecurity.com ones?  I think they could really help.  Otherwise, I like it.  Its a good draft.

Perhaps you could include somethig in the control system?  As well as perhaps an explanation of any internal control mechanisms.  For example, the graphic on the Art Asset Page has a LED display, perhaps you could write-up what thats used for.  Likewise, you could add some safety mechanisms.  Things like that.

Also, you might want to consider including a soldier testamonial quote... perhaps something humorous like "They made us test them on eachother in training, and let me tell you, they work..."  Or whatever suites your fancy :D .


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#16 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:18 PM

I don't recon u should include any future dates 4 any riots or any such, saying a 6-7 years ago should surfice, as noone knows when this will be finished and it would be a pain in the arse 2 keep changing. IMO as always tho :)

#17 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:19 PM

I agree...it should be a little more technical. Since most of the other entries get quite detailed, this should be too. If you run out of exisitng technology that sounds spiffy, make it up! Bruenor's comment about galvanic skin resistance would make a good addition, and you could probably flesh it out a bit.

I would also try to keep the mood of the text a bit more formal. This sounds like some guy bragging to his buddy about a new toy rather than a weapons specialist submitting a report to their commander.

That being said, I really like the American uprising bit. Maybe make the date a bit vague (like 'five years ago' or 'of the early twenty-first century') rather than specific.

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"...you're always afraid you'll lose control and wake up some morning with a half-built time machine and a plan to go back in time and pants Hitler."
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#18 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:33 PM

Ok... *thinks* galvanic resistance.... galvanic resistance... it does sound familiar.......... could someone give me an explanation?
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#19 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:52 PM

This should help.
This link may get you started in the right direction. To sum it up, scientists used GSR in cionjunction with pain-free males to detect spinal palpations. Didnt work. But, thats ok, because it could give you some ideas.

Basic Stuff
This link should give you an idea of what GSR is, and how it works and is measured.

Really, GSR doesnt need to be a big part of the enrty, but its cute. It also seems to be almost a load of bull, which makes it perfect for making stuff up about...

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#20 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:59 PM

Ok, I vaguely get the idea... I think I will leave it out for now.... someone can add it later....

Edit: v3 coming as we type.....

Edited by dipstick, 19 July 2003 - 04:00 PM.

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#21 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 04:07 PM

Whoooooooooohoo! Great site!!

http://www.trusttool...0.0&v_count=0.0
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#22 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 04:17 PM

Art work people take a look at www.taser.com/pages/products/ledefense.html as well as the site in general.
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#23 Deimos

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 09:10 AM

http://science.howst...news-item80.htm
This might help as well

#24 Breunor

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 08:14 PM

hehe, FLESH out the galvanic SKIN resistence stuff... hehe!

I agree with moving dates up a little so it doesn't need to be touched for a couple years. This device is pretty much like what was used in the movie Demolition Man I guess.

#25 dipstick

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:06 PM

Will do people!! I will just leave the BARE BONES I think for now.
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#26 Fred the Goat

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 12:58 PM

Cool stuff. I love Deimos' phaser! heck yeah! Exciting muscles through skin with a freakin laser! Holy super crazy gizmo.

#27 dipstick

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 09:47 AM

Right v3 here then! Enjoy, and criticise! :unsure:
This experimental device is the culmination of several years of dedicated research conducted by top biophysists. It contains all the latest major technological breakthroughs; including, a revolutionary 'intelligent' recharging system. This system recognises when it is in a XCOM facility, and automatically interfaces with the central computer of that facility to inititate recharging of its batteries. At this time, any battle damage is assessed by its onboard diagnostic; it is repaired at the same time.

This complex device works by meticulously determining the exact voltage required to produce the precise amperage to temporarily disable the target's nervous system. This experimental component is not fool-proof, and does require further testing on actual alien life-forms. In testing Squaddie X said:
"This is GREAT, no sectoid is going to stand in MY way"
Rookie Y added
"This is brilliant if you use it against someone else; maybe not quite so good if they return the favour....it does give quite a jolt....."

To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock; at the same time as the shock is given, an electro-synaptic pulse is given out. This pulse targets the already weakened nervous system, and breaks down the chemical signals given out at the synapses between the nerve cells. This thereby limits the nervous system's ability to recover from incapacition. A typical recovery time for a normal human is around a minute. This time can be altered severely; if one of the latest medikits is used in the battlefield, recovery time can be almost instanteously; conversely, if several shocks are deployed, the recovery time can be hours, or even days. These times are only estimates; no testing has been done on alien life forms.

There is further versions of this device in development, but only prototypes have been created. These versions include a different angle on incapitation; it utilises both the electro-synaptic pulse as well as a completely different system. This system uses the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves. It uses chemicals which will temporarily reverse the action of the coating, and slow down signals in the nerves. This will completely disarm the nervous system for as long as required, from one application. Unfortunately, these devices have not done well in testing; they have permanently affected the nervous systems of many test subjects, even killing some.

Research is continuing in this field.
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#28 mikker

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 11:45 AM

let the rod be finnished, dont say that it sometimes kill people. Also, i don't like the rokiee X and Y.

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#29 Fred the Goat

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 01:34 PM

Yeah, I agree. As for more immediate critique, I'm just gonna swamp it with changes, disregard them if you like, anything beyond spelling/grammar I'll put as a suggestion ().

This experimental device is the culmination of several years of dedicated research conducted by top biophysicists. It contains all the latest major technological breakthroughs, including a revolutionary 'intelligent' recharging system. This system recognises when it is in an XCOM (Xenocide? X-Corps?) facility, and automatically interfaces with the central computer of that facility to inititate recharging of its batteries. At this time, any battle damage is assessed by its onboard diagnostic; it is repaired at the same time. (I'd say that's unrealistic - pretend there's negligible battle damage)

This complex device works by meticulously determining the exact voltage required to produce the precise amperage (just the exact amperage required) to temporarily disable the target's nervous system. This experimental component is not fool-proof, and does require further testing on actual alien life-forms. In testing Squaddie X said:
"This is GREAT, no sectoid is going to stand in MY way"
Rookie Y added
"This is brilliant if you use it against someone else; maybe not quite so good if they return the favour....it does give quite a jolt....."

To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock, at the same time the shock is given an electro-synaptic pulse is given out (administered). This pulse targets the already weakened nervous system, and breaks down (blocks) the chemical signals given out (delete given out) at the synapses between the nerve cells (at the nerve cell synapses). This thereby (delete thereby) limits the nervous system's ability to recover from incapacition. A typical recovery time for a normal human is around a minute. This time can be altered severely; if one of the latest medikits is used in the battlefield, recovery time can be almost instanteous. Conversely, if several shocks are deployed, the recovery time can be hours, or even days. These times are only estimates; no testing has been done on (actual) alien life forms.

There are further versions of this device in development, but only prototypes have been created (as said earlier, you might just make it done now and delete this whole paragraph). These versions include a different angle on incapitation; they utilises both the electro-synaptic pulse as well as a completely different system. This system uses the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves (replace with "their own cells" or something). It uses (utilizes) chemicals which will temporarily reverse the action of the coating, and slow down signals in the nerves (slow down incoming signals). This will completely disarm the nervous system for as long as required, from one application. Unfortunately, these devices have not done well in testing; they have permanently affected the nervous systems of many test subjects, even killing some.

Research is continuing in this field.

#30 dipstick

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 04:18 PM

Fair enough - v4 will be arriving shortly....
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#31 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:05 AM

At this time, any battle damage is assessed by its onboard diagnostic; it is repaired at the same time.

i say lose the auto repair thing. Its a bit too far fetched.

This experimental component is not fool-proof, and does require further testing on actual alien life-forms.

Yes, but perhaps word it along the lines of:
'It works fine on humans but were not sure how it will work on aliens. Tests needed.'

In testing Squaddie X  said:
"This is GREAT, no sectoid is going to stand in MY way"
Rookie Y added
"This is brilliant if you use it against someone else; maybe not quite so good if they return the favour....it does give quite a jolt....." 

Yeah, use actual names. Check out the Armor text, as Fred the Goat does some great quotes. You ca have such fun with fluff text!

To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock; at the same time as the shock is given, an electro-synaptic pulse is given out. 

To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock, an electro-synaptic pulse is given out simultaneously.

This time can be altered severely; if one of the latest medikits is used in the battlefield, recovery time can be almost instanteously; conversely, if several shocks are deployed, the recovery time can be hours, or even days.

For the first bit, use "... vary immensely ...". Ummm, those 'latest medkits' havent been researched yet. :D And use "... applied..." not 'deployed'.

These times are only estimates; no testing has been done on alien life forms.

Correct, pad it out with some 'we have no idea if this will even work on aliens, we need to test it'. It leaves it open for some V1+ upgrades to it!

There is further versions of this device in development, but only prototypes have been created.

I say lose this. In V1 its not true, at least not for X-Corps. We can add it later if we do implement upgrades in V1+.

These versions include a different angle on incapitation; it utilises both the electro-synaptic pulse as well as a completely different system. 

I say keep this, but change it to a 'possible areas for improvemnt of the device include...'

This system uses the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves.  It uses chemicals which will temporarily reverse the action of the coating, and slow down signals in the nerves.  This will completely disarm the nervous system for as long as required, from one application.  Unfortunately, these devices have not done well in testing; they have permanently affected the nervous systems of many test subjects, even killing some.

Go along the lines of 'initial studies were performed in the areas of .... but they proved inneffective and were dropped.'

Research is continuing in this field

By whom? I say lose this for V1, or change it to 'Further studies in this field may be possible at a later date.'

There! As a general comment distick, you seem to really like your semi-colons! ;)
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#32 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:25 AM

Ahh geez. Its too early and i didnt realise FtG has made some changes/suggestions. :zzzzz:

Can i make a generic suggestion based on this? Everyone else attaches the text as a .txt file, so it makes it easy to keep track of. Posting the actual text directly on the board can get confusing (at least, to someone like me at this time in the morning :D). Try attaching the text.

Along the same lines, everyone can make suggestions actually on the board, much like i do -_- , and then the author (and only the author) can make the changes to the .txt file. Make sense?

Good. Now I will go ahead and comment on FtG's comments.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']Yeah, I agree.  As for more immediate critique, I'm just gonna swamp it with changes ...[/quote]
Oh glee!

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']... anything beyond spelling/grammar I'll put as a suggestion ().[/quote]
You see, this is where things start to get confusing IMO. Oh well.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']This system recognises when it is in an XCOM (Xenocide?  X-Corps?) facility...[/quote]
Good point, should be X-Corps.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']At this time, any battle damage is assessed by its onboard diagnostic; it is repaired at the same time.  (I'd say that's unrealistic - pretend there's negligible battle damage)[/quote]
Ok, so you said it before me, but at least we agree.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']This complex device works by meticulously determining the exact voltage required to produce the precise amperage (just the exact amperage required) to temporarily disable the target's nervous system. [/quote]
Now that I come to think about it, isnt it volts (and volts only) that affects the nervous system when it comes to electricity? :huh?:

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock, at the same time the shock is given an electro-synaptic pulse is given out (administered).[/quote]
Agreed. Did i change that in my comments? Too sleep to remember and too lazy to check.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']This pulse targets the already weakened nervous system, and breaks down (blocks) the chemical signals ...[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']... given out (delete given out) ... [/quote]
Err, im getting lost again but i think i agree.
<Goes to get some coffee to wake up.>

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']... at the synapses between the nerve cells (at the nerve cell synapses). [/quote]
Agreed, as long as I didnt change that.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']This thereby (delete thereby) limits the nervous system's ability to recover from incapacition. [/quote]
I dont think it really matters. Either way.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']These times are only estimates; no testing has been done on (actual) alien life forms.[/quote]
Ahh yes, all those tests on the fake aliens. Of course.
Not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about simulation or something? I see no problems with adding it though.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']There are further versions of this device in development, but only prototypes have been created (as said earlier, you might just make it done now and delete this whole paragraph).[/quote]
Possible, but I like the idea of leaving some room open for V1+ upgrades. Either way, but I say do what I said. -_-

[quote=dipstick's original post]... completely different system. This system uses ...[/quote]
Just spotted a 'system' repetition. Didnt catch that. Thesaurus? Nothing to do with you FtG.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']...the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves (replace with "their own cells" or something). [/quote]
I think i made a suggestion about this before.

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']It uses (utilizes) chemicals which ...[/quote]
Disagree. Ha! -_-

[quote name='Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003' date=' 10:40 PM']... and slow down signals in the nerves (slow down incoming signals).[/quote]
Indeed, better, if I didnt suggest something myself.

Ok dipstick. You asked for help, and there it is. Have fun filterg through all that!
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#33 Breunor

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 06:43 AM

Miceless, you asked if it's volts that affect the nervous system. Volts are totally harmless I guarantee you. It's the AMPS that will kill you... Voltage is the potential, amps are the current that's flowing.

Perhaps I'm just a simple country boy( :huh?: ), but could you just say an electric current is passed that overloads the nervous system using a pulse frequency similar to the wave cycles a person experiences during deep sleep? The brain is forced into this pattern for several minutes as the residual charge wears off, effectively putting the victim into a deep sleep that they cannot recover from without outside stimulus (assuming you could kick them to wake them up). A small surface burn from the voltage entering the body heals in a couple days with no scarring.

#34 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 08:07 AM

Miceless, you asked if it's volts that affect the nervous system. Volts are totally harmless I guarantee you. It's the AMPS that will kill you...

Hmmm, but you need a high enough voltage to overcome the bodies resistance, correct? I was imagining a high amp low volt shock, and i dont think it would do much.

Guess my electricity physics is rusty! Im a chemistry person anyway.
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#35 dipstick

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:12 AM

Several things: thanks for the comments, I will take them into consideration; second, I do love semi colons, my English teacher is always harping on about them; third, how on earth do you do multiple quotes?? Then I will answer most accusations of poor work in one go! :D
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#36 j'ordos

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:20 AM

When posting a message you have several buttons above the input box like 'http://', 'IMG', .... One of those is 'quote'. Click on ot, then type/paste the post you want to quote and then click 'quote' again to close.
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#37 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:34 AM

thanks for the comments, I will take them into consideration

Ok. Post up a new version when your done.

second, I do love semi colons, my English teacher is always harping on about them

It shows. I avoid using them in general. Each to his own.

third, how on earth do you do multiple quotes??  Then I will answer most accusations of poor work in one go!

There are no limits to the number of quotes you can do. Use the quote button at the top (or type the tags in manually if you can be bothered).

If you want to make several seperate quotes from one post from one person, heres what I do:
  • Whack the quote button from the post you want to quote.
  • Go to the bottom of the two input boxes, where your quote should now be and cut (Ctrl X) everything out except for what you want in your first quote.
  • Paste that text into the top box, which should be empty.
  • Start seperating all the bits you want to quote on to new lines, so that you can see what you are doing.
  • Add '...' where appropriate (and if you can be bothered). You can trim the quote this way.
  • Whack the preview button to tidy things up. You should end up with a quote at the top, and then all the rest of your quotes as normal text (not quoted) underneath.
  • Select each quote section and use the "QUOTE" button to add the quote tags.
  • Copy the bit that says '=<username>,<Date>,<Time>' from the first quote.
  • Paste it into the other quotes (if you can be bothered)
  • Whack the preview button again.
  • Check that everything went ok
  • If you are happy, then go ahead and submit.
(Hmmm, how do i persuade a list to show up as numbered?)

If anyone has a better way of doing it, then im all ears.

If you want to quote posts from two different people/times, then you have to use copy and paste again and do it all manually. <_<

EDIT: Heh, i went into a little bit more detail than j'ordos, but the idea is the same.

Edited by miceless, 01 August 2003 - 09:38 AM.

"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#38 dipstick

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:51 AM

[quote]When posting a message you have several buttons above the input box like 'http://', 'IMG', .... One of those is 'quote'. Click on ot, then type/paste the post you want to quote and then click 'quote' again to close.[/quote]

Like this?? :D

As I was saying.

[quote]QUOTE (dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
This system uses the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves.  It uses chemicals which will temporarily reverse the action of the coating, and slow down signals in the nerves.  This will completely disarm the nervous system for as long as required, from one application.  Unfortunately, these devices have not done well in testing; they have permanently affected the nervous systems of many test subjects, even killing some.


Go along the lines of 'initial studies were performed in the areas of .... but they proved inneffective and were dropped.'


[/quote]

Good idea, will do.


[quote]QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
This system recognises when it is in an XCOM (Xenocide?  X-Corps?) facility...


Good point, should be X-Corps[/quote]


Didn't know this was decided yet, it was left sort of blank for future use.

[quote]QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
At this time, any battle damage is assessed by its onboard diagnostic; it is repaired at the same time.  (I'd say that's unrealistic - pretend there's negligible battle damage)


Ok, so you said it before me, but at least we agree.
[/quote]

Ok, fair point, looking back, this seems reasonable to say. It is really too off-topic

[quote]QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
This pulse targets the already weakened nervous system, and breaks down (blocks) the chemical signals ...


Agreed.
[/quote]

Sorry, sticking by this, comes of having a great biology teacher - this is the technical term for degradation of signals in a biological system, I think :unsure:

[quote]QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
These times are only estimates; no testing has been done on (actual) alien life forms.


Ahh yes, all those tests on the fake aliens. Of course.
Not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about simulation or something? I see no problems with adding it though.
[/quote]

Not really fussed.

[quote]QUOTE (dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
In testing Squaddie X  said:
"This is GREAT, no sectoid is going to stand in MY way"
Rookie Y added
"This is brilliant if you use it against someone else; maybe not quite so good if they return the favour....it does give quite a jolt....." 


Yeah, use actual names. Check out the Armor text, as Fred the Goat does some great quotes. You ca have such fun with fluff text[/quote]

This was just a quick thing, it can be filled out at a later date.

[quote]QUOTE (dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock; at the same time as the shock is given, an electro-synaptic pulse is given out. 


To prevent immediate recovery from the electric shock, an electro-synaptic pulse is given out simultaneously.
[/quote]

Ok, it is better. *tries not to repeat words over and over again*

[quote]QUOTE (dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
This system uses the nerves' myelin coating to attack the nerves.  It uses chemicals which will temporarily reverse the action of the coating, and slow down signals in the nerves.  This will completely disarm the nervous system for as long as required, from one application.  Unfortunately, these devices have not done well in testing; they have permanently affected the nervous systems of many test subjects, even killing some.


Go along the lines of 'initial studies were performed in the areas of .... but they proved inneffective and were dropped.'


QUOTE (dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
Research is continuing in this field


By whom? I say lose this for V1, or change it to 'Further studies in this field may be possible at a later date.'
[/quote]

VERY good ideas!

[quote]QUOTE (Breunor @ Aug 1 2003, 03:49 PM)
Miceless, you asked if it's volts that affect the nervous system. Volts are totally harmless I guarantee you. It's the AMPS that will kill you... 
[/quote]

Yep, 'tis the amps that kill you. In fact a mere 0.1 amp will sizzle you to a crisp!


[quote]Hmmm, but you need a high enough voltage to overcome the bodies resistance, correct? I was imagining a high amp low volt shock, and i dont think it would do much[/quote]

This would just not work. Unless your 'low' voltage overcomes the resistance and *zzzzzt* no more person. But this is scientifically impossible.

[quote]Guess my electricity physics is rusty! Im a chemistry person anyway. [/quote]

Same here! Chemistry all the way! :party:
Biology not far behind!
Physics, well, stuff physics! :happybanana:

My physics is rusty full stop, and I am still at school! :LOL:

That's it for now, let me read some other posts!!
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#39 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 10:17 AM

[quote name='dipstick' date='Aug 1 2003, 06:57 PM'][quote]When posting a message you have several buttons above the input box like 'http://', 'IMG', .... One of those is 'quote'. Click on ot, then type/paste the post you want to quote and then click 'quote' again to close.[/quote]
Like this??[/quote]
That works I suppose, but you will notice your quote sections are messed up. Eight out of ten. ;) Good marks for effort. Follow my instructions for the ultimate quoting method.

[quote][quote]QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
This system recognises when it is in an XCOM (Xenocide?  X-Corps?) facility...
Good point, should be X-Corps[/quote]
Didn't know this was decided yet, it was left sort of blank for future use.[/quote]
I thought it had been decided. I could be wrong.

[quote][quote][quote=Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM]
This pulse targets the already weakened nervous system, and breaks down (blocks) the chemical signals ...[/quote]
Agreed.[/quote]
Sorry, sticking by this, comes of having a great biology teacher - this is the technical term for degradation of signals in a biological system, I think[/quote]
I bow down to your presumably higher biology knowledge then. :master:

[quote][quote][quote=dipstick on Jul 31 2003 @ 06:53 PM]
In testing Squaddie X  said:
"This is GREAT, no sectoid is going to stand in MY way"
Rookie Y added
"This is brilliant if you use it against someone else; maybe not quite so good if they return the favour....it does give quite a jolt....."[/quote]
Yeah, use actual names. Check out the Armor text, as Fred the Goat does some great quotes. You ca have such fun with fluff text[/quote]
This was just a quick thing, it can be filled out at a later date.[/quote]
Dont forget!

[quote][quote]QUOTE (Breunor @ Aug 1 2003, 03:49 PM)
Miceless, you asked if it's volts that affect the nervous system. Volts are totally harmless I guarantee you. It's the AMPS that will kill you... [/quote]
Yep, 'tis the amps that kill you. In fact a mere 0.1 amp will sizzle you to a crisp![/quote]
Ok, i bow down to your superior electrical knowledge too. :master:

[quote][quote]Guess my electricity physics is rusty! Im a chemistry person anyway. [/quote]
Same here! Chemistry all the way! :party:
Biology not far behind!
Physics, well, stuff physics![/quote]
Nah, physics is second for me. Stuff biology!
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#40 Breunor

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 10:59 AM

Some quotes from a page on galvanic skin response:

"The Tarchanoff Response is a change in DC potential across neurones of the autonomic nervous system connected to the sensori-motor strip of the cortex."

"Changes in Alpha rhythms cause blood capillaries to enlarge, and this too affects resistance."

"By virtue of the Galvanic Skin Response, autonomic nervous system activity causes a change in the skin's conductivity. The overall degree of arousal of the hemispheres, and indeed the whole brain, is shown by the readings of the GSR psychometer, which does not differentiate between the hemispheres, or between cortical and primitive brain responses. Higher arousal (such as occurs with increased involvement) will almost instantaneously (0.2 - 0.5 sec) cause a fall in skin resistance; reduced arousal (such as occurs with withdrawal) will cause a rise in skin resistance."

Even saying emotionally charged words changes your skins resistence level according to this page. It's part of the lie detector machine too. So if the stun rod sends current in such a way that brain waves are affected, you can change a person's skin resistence against their will, making them more succeptable to a voltage. This helps explain why stun rods don't work as well on certain aliens, their brain waves are not affected the same way as others and their resistence is therefore higher.

The stun rod can send a burst of energy that stimulates the cortex, making the subject very sensitive to the voltage. The voltage is pulsed at a frequency matching typical alpha waves, which causes a huge drop in arousal, effectively knocking them unconscious. It actually puts them into a temporary state of catatonia that their brain recovers from after several minutes, which is effectively after the battle.

#41 Fred the Goat

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Fred the Goat on Jul 31 2003 @ 10:40 PM)
It uses (utilizes) chemicals which ...

Disagree. Ha! 


I was addressing overuse of the verb "to use" so there!

In England, they don't even have driveby shootings, they have driveby arguments. - Family Guy :argue:

As for volts and amps, think of it this way. Volts are electrical pressure, like the amount of force you put into swinging a bat. Amps are actual movement of electrons, like the movement of your knee when it's struck by a bat. My H.S. physics teacher used to say, "It's not the volts that get you, it's the amps." It's not the bat that hurts, it's your knee moving. Resistance would be like a power suit. The same amount of force behind the bat would make your knee move much less, and then you would pull out your plasma rifle...

As for breaking down vs blocking chemical signals, I'm a biology major. I took neurobiology last year. I never heard the phrase "breaking down chemical signals". That said, I didn't really pay that much attention in that class, so it coulda been in there somewhere. :D

For me, it's Biology,
Philosophy second,
physics third,
and chemistry can bloody bugger off, except that I have to take it for biology. :P

Edit:Okay, I'm not actually English, I'm just a dork.

Edited by Fred the Goat, 01 August 2003 - 03:39 PM.


#42 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 05:39 AM

As for breaking down vs blocking chemical signals, I'm a biology major. I took neurobiology last year. I never heard the phrase "breaking down chemical signals". That said, I didn't really pay that much attention in that class, so it coulda been in there somewhere. 


:o :unsure: Well, I said I was unsure!

:stupid: :spank:


But you are not either..... :sly: :sly: :sly:
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#43 warhamster

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 07:29 PM

Personally, I'd like to see some more of those hi-faluting science terms like 'neural disruption' or 'shock impulse variance' and all that.

#44 GreatGold

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:36 AM

I never heard the phrase "breaking down chemical signals". That said, I didn't really pay that much attention in that class, so it coulda been in there somewhere.

Just to clarify for your general knowledge (I am a neuro major). Usually the term "breaing down chemical signals" needs a context to be taken with. For example, if you are talking about neurotransmitter re-uptake at a post-synaptic junction, then you could be reffering to breaking down the NT's for recyling/destruction. Depending on the action of the NT, this could cause either a prolonging or shortening of the NT's effect. Another context, would be as in disrupting the synthesis of a NT or hormone. Or just physically blocking a receptor with an agonist or antagonist (like you already mentioned).

Overall, the phrase can be used here I think, because I dont think your average player is going to read that sentance and go "Ah ha! And how exactly are you blcoking the cehmical signal?!"

Or, dipstick could change it to reflect a specific biochemical aspect. If you want help with that let me know.

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#45 dipstick

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:07 AM

HELPPPPPPPP *runs around like an idiot* ok, umm, I think I will leave that point for now. I am nowhere NEAR that sort of level, so it went whoosh, straight over my head (well most of it anyway)

Also, I do have an article in the newspaper about that taser. I will post the scan sometime....
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#46 Fred the Goat

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:16 AM

then you could be reffering


LOL I think you mean reefering you phish rocker. :P

Let's see...I think...*urk*...gah! YES! I understood it! Chemical signals are funny. Gold says that breaking down a chemical signal refers to actually breaking down the chemical that causes the signal, before or after the signal has been sent. So you're not necessarily stopping the signal, you're literally breaking a molecule. We could use it. It's debatable. I'd vote for blocking. Because that's more in line with an electrical impulse, and because I'm a stubborn old goat. Bleeeeeeat.

#47 GreatGold

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 01:03 PM

LOL I think you mean reefering you phish rocker.

My head still hurts, its been a few days since I've been home.. you have no idea... :P

On a more serious note, we need to stay on topic. I will be deleting all off-topic posts within UFOpedia threads during the coming days.

Please stay on topic.
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#48 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:20 PM

Hmmm... here's a nice thought. Maybe the first stun gun is based on disruption of human nervous activity by way of electric shock. This was mildly affective against aliens, but a possible upgrade could be biochemically based. Ya know, neuro-para toxin blahblah. And maybe a third upgrade, psi-tech based stun rods. just a thought.

#49 dipstick

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:11 PM

Sounds good, it would extend the research. This would be like the vibro blade etc in TFTD.
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#50 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:40 PM

But then again, and I guess all that would be mot as soon as you research stun bomb.