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#1 otaku

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 05:45 PM

hey i'm new to this forum; but been playing and losing at xcom since it first came out (yeah i am that old!)

it always really annoyed me how you couldn't get a sitrep (situation report) or maps/recon from aerial units before engaging in battle. it would be great to have ad-hoc maps with areas marked as hot for aliens. also how about the skyranger staying on station like a gunship and utilising door gunners before, during and after drop. at night, you could have a searchlight/designator. this would lead to the dropship/skyranger being exposed to enemy fire during the mission but, you could have it bug out if needs be. maybe there's just some psychopathic need here for some vietnam style combat. "how do you know he's an alien sympathiser?" - "cos he runs" "what about the ones who stay still?" - "they're just well trained alien sympathisers!"

ok shoot me down if you want :uzzi:

#2 Botijo

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 05:12 AM

Hehehe, i like that idea... After all, i don't think that having a armed skyranger was a mad thing... If today in the real world, the government launches a airplane to that sort of mission, i'm sure that they will be very well armed :D

But maybe that addon it will be better to do later, 'cause it's more logical in X-COM Apoc, that in X-COM UFO D. don't you think??

Well.. I like the idea :D

#3 mikker

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Posted 03 March 2003 - 11:56 AM

Hmmm...You are right. It would be better if you could get an brefing of the suroundings, and perhaps een choice the ideal landingzone (maybe with way to face!), but i do not agree with the door-gunners... That could simply make the battle go too easy. And it IS "quite" fun to get shot down by aliens before getting of th ramp. :huh:

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#4 Radoteur

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 03:52 PM

When I think aliens, I think swarms of aliens. On a terror site, there would be aliens all converging on the Skyranger, waiting for the ramp to open, so they can throw their grenades, and shoot up everything inside that might have survived, therefore without softening up the LZ, it would be complete and utter suicide to even attempt to land. That would make sense.

I'm thinking that the troops should rope or jump out of the transport vehicle, which might fly away to a safe location or just to the sky, where they act as a Command and Control craft, maybe that's where the player would sit giving orders to the troops. Of course, you wouldn't be able to see the entire map, that wouldn't be any fun, now would it? I'm not too sure if the Skyranger takes damage on the battlescape, but it would make more sense. Of course, that would probably be a huge pain to program.

#5 Paladin

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 01:04 PM

I agree that terror sites should have a bit more swarm, and that getting your guys shot at while exiting the craft is PLAIN STUPID!!
At least givethem a door on the side of teh craft or something, a hatch in the middle (to exit under it), or the ability to close back the door (TFTD)
I like the idea of people roping down from the still flying plane, much more realistic... and they'd probably never land in a terrain thats'got 4 alines in sight...
Btw, we should at least have a general view of the surrounding buildings...
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#6 Sergio

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 06:03 PM

THis is kinda related but I always thought it was kinda unfair on the Aliens that they can't or don't attack the skyranger if you use it recklessly say by flying near an airbourne battleship.
If your behaviour is reckless surely you should be punished. I mean it seems weird to have an unmanned skyranger on patrol/ Station while battleships are swarming around completely oblivioous to its pressence.
Just a thought?
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#7 blind pilot

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 07:13 PM

I know it's kind of an odd idea, but it would be fun to have a dropship carrying an apc land just in the vincinity of a terror site,
and then drive to the hot area. I probably watched "aliens" too many times... :P

#8 Moriarty

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 04:17 AM

hey, maybe we could even choose: when your transport reaches the terror site/landed ufo/crashed ufo, you are prompted "sir, where should I drop you?" and the choices are:
1) right in the fire
2) border zone
3) safe distance

of course, there are pros and cons:
1) pro: in a terror site, you don't waste time. aliens are surprised
contra: you are instantly attacked. door opens, shooting starts

2) pro: most of the aliens will be to one side of the landing spot. advance in line abreast and sweep the area
contra: the aliens see you coming. expect some fortified positions... perhaps even booby traps?

3) pro: you have the opportunity to get out of the transport without dying. perhaps long-range weapons can be used to soften the target.
contra: it takes some time to reach the target site. very bad in terror sites. perhaps even ground transports can be used?


does that sound good? the mission design would have to be changed a bit, and the maps used have to be big for this system to have any effect. what do you think?
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#9 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 07:29 AM

Good idea, it's far better than the already crowded area, where my tanks die half the times just exiting the craft (even with smoke grenades), and it still gives a better feeling than UFO:Aftermath's cheap way of not even Seing the craft... :D
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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#10 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 08:29 AM

maby whan you start a mission you get to fly the skyranger around, shoot aliens whith the chin turit, and decide whare to land it and maby fly it around evean after dropping of your men

#11 Snakeman

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 10:14 PM

I know it's kind of an odd idea, but it would be fun to have a dropship carrying an apc land just in the vincinity of a terror site,
and then drive to the hot area. I probably watched "aliens" too many times...


Me too :)

hey, maybe we could even choose: when your transport reaches the terror site/landed ufo/crashed ufo, you are prompted "sir, where should I drop you?" and the choices are:
1) right in the fire
2) border zone
3) safe distance


I can't imagine what it might be like to program something like this, but I think that the craft available to you (of the "Aliens"-type dropship w/APC) might only work well for landing options of #2 or #3 with the other traditional varieties of ship carrying nothing but HWPs to go with the troops could go in much closer in the hot zones as before.

I think though it becomes a question of unit size here vs area of movement for a given landing option. In the first X-COM, I've had landing scenarios where my ramp opening was buffeted by buildings to the left, right, and in front. It was barely adequate for HWP movement so I couldn't imagine how an APC would fare without having to blow stuff up to make its self a path (not that it wouldn't be any fun mind you ;))

So I think that if we had an option to come in loaded on an APC (this option would probably negate HWP support due to space on the ship), the landing zone option should be in direct correlation with the ship your using. i.e. If its the dropship, your only landing options (unless its mainly flat terrain and wide opened maps) by default should be 2 or 3 - and any other past traditonal ship deployment with HWPs could go to any of them.

I do like the APC option insofar as it may help faster troop deployment (depending on how you'd handle time units for it versus say, HWPs or something in turn based). You could possibly set up a perimeter a bit faster with the vehicle offering some suppressing fire as it went. Anyway, depending on how something like that could be balanced it could work. I mean, if it turns out that it had too much power, perhaps it could only help speed deployment, then leave back to the outskirts, to be called in for tactical retreats or pickup (can't forget the suppressing fire there too heh)

#12 Moriarty

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 03:46 AM

I can't imagine what it might be like to program something like this,
...
...
In the first X-COM, I've had landing scenarios where my ramp opening was buffeted by buildings to the left, right, and in front.


well, come to think of it, the programming would actually be quite easy: you get a question screen, you choose #1, #2 or #3, and depending on your choice, the ground mission has a different layout. that's all. layout #1 is what you describe above: possibly even with a partially blocked exit ramp, so that your tanks cannot exit. layout #2 is what you sometimes get in xcom, when your transport is at the edge of the map; and layout #3 would be somewhat different, with a larger map (maybe 12*6 tiles instead of 6*6), the ufo at one end and your transport at the other end. simple as that. :D
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#13 Paladin

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:04 AM

Well, we all seem to agree it would be a nice + to have a small choice in the way our guys are deployed.

Besides, troop deployment from an airship is usually accomplished in not so hostiles zones, simply because you don't want to endanger the craft anymore than what's necessary...
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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There is another which states that this has already happened.
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#14 Snakeman

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:23 PM

Well, we all seem to agree it would be a nice + to have a small choice in the way our guys are deployed.

Besides, troop deployment from an airship is usually accomplished in not so hostiles zones, simply because you don't want to endanger the craft anymore than what's necessary...


The only thing I worry about more than the dropzone choices (good idea there btw Moriarty - how the map might be generated could be based on choice but also squeeze the ship in leaving a way out for the APC albeit...might put civies in more danger if t'was terror site for example when it had to blow up that lush apartment to make it to the road i.e. more heavily concentrated with them, aliens and buildings more cloistered together in choice #1) is probably in unit balancing.

The APC's time units over HWPs for one, then of course its weapons abilities against aliens, then you have the vulnerabilities to balance. If it started out being pretty powerful, I think something would have to be done kinda the way X-COM 3 deals with enemy spawns in the alien dimention missions. So if you were up against weaker aliens initially and your men were powerful enough to deal with them...adjust the spawn rate accordingly, but also randomize what gets spawned as reinforcements and base that on game difficulty to boot.

Basically, balancing the slaughtering action we all know and love from particular X-COM units (tanks, people, or weapons) with challenging spawns. Course I think it should be added that we can stop the spawnages, perhaps as a tertiary objective as in those Apoc maps by blowing up those pads. I like the thought that they be an objective among many in a given mission...or not if it was a milk run for some stuff :)

#15 fux0r666

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 03:04 AM

If you start with an APC, the aliens have to start with something that can easily destroy the APC... and I don't want to see that.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#16 Snakeman

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 05:17 AM

If you start with an APC, the aliens have to start with something that can easily destroy the APC... and I don't want to see that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Perhaps not a something, but lots of some things :)

More enemy tank units, Reapers, Sectopods & Cyberdiscs. I think that if you have enough targets which the APC draws fire to it, using it just becomes a tactical challenge rather than a cake walk for your guys.

#17 Paladin

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 06:02 AM

Yeah, besides, the APC is basically a skyranger with a small machine gun (autocannon style), not much harm done here... The simple fact that we'd be able to SEE around it would go a long way to eliminate the absurdities that our guy are shot the instant the exit the craft... I mean, they SHOULD look through the windows, THEN decide if they need a smoke grenade or not...
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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#18 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 06:02 AM

If you start with an APC, the aliens have to start with something that can easily destroy the APC... and I don't want to see that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Perhaps not a something, but lots of some things :)

More enemy tank units, Reapers, Sectopods & Cyberdiscs. I think that if you have enough targets which the APC draws fire to it, using it just becomes a tactical challenge rather than a cake walk for your guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Intresting idea. I figure that just a squad of four sectoids with heavy plasmas could quickly do the APC in too though.
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#19 Paladin

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 09:22 AM

Yeah, well, it won't help them much if they blow lots of holes in it, as long as tehy don't hit any vital areas... Besides, it SHOULD be repairable as long as it did'nt blow up...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#20 fux0r666

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:36 PM

Seriously, heavy plasmas can damage ufo walls, can't they? They should be able to go in once side of the APC and out the other.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#21 Snakeman

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 03:37 PM

I think so too. I've always wanted (and I can't confirm this in my gaming with X-COM in the past) to be able to risk damaging or losing my own craft. Sure, maybe upgrades along the way might increase its resilience, but ultimately it should be destroyable as any other unit type is. I mean, we are talking another unit type here. This one just so happens to carry other units inside of it in (presumably) the battlescape which gets to shoot just as your HWPs do (as opposed to vehicle fighting in geoscape with those types).

Hmm, now I wonder. If someone can confirm that you can lose your ship on the battlescape fighting the aliens...What happens if you beat them back and you got no ride to return to your base? Do you lose everything and everyone anyway?

I'm not talking about losing everyone in combat and it just says you lose not just your soldiers, but your ship.

#22 Tuoppi

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 04:11 AM

Don't know about the APC, it is too good target in combat of our kind. I would never get inside one in close range combat when enemy has heavy weapons. They are built to carry troops quickly across distances and support with fire in open terrain. In forest, city or otherwise obstructed close range they are just useless big targets. A single strong hit in the side kills everything inside, even if there is no complete penetration (Inside of wall gets blown away as shrapnels). A bit of freedom in selecting touchdown zone totally gets my vote anyway.

Craft should definitely be damageable in battlescape, aircraft are quite durable, especially the alien ones, but no pilot in his right mind would risk taking off with a supersonic craft with pieces missing. It would just take few days to get everything shipped into base, including damaged craft to get repairs.

#23 Paladin

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:49 AM

I agree with Tuoppi 100%

I might add that I THINK it happenend to me once, to have my skyranger get back to base and needing repairs... it had received a blaster bomb on the side, and some panels had melted...

Can anyone confimr this?
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#24 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 07:22 AM

how bout after evry ufo interseption the crash site should stay for a few days after the aliens are killed during which the corpsees are packed int frezer trucks and the ufo is desmantled and caryed in unmarcked trucks to the nerist x-base

#25 Paladin

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 12:42 PM

how bout after evry ufo interseption the crash site should stay for a few days after the aliens are killed during which the corpsees are packed int frezer trucks and the ufo is desmantled and caryed in unmarcked trucks to the nerist x-base

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, just make the recovered stuff come back using the same time-model that's used to move stuff from a base to the other...
^_^
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#26 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 02:07 PM

maby a little slower cause thay have to cut the ufo into little pecies

so maby have a battleship recovery take a weak and a small scout take 24howers (overnight delevry)

#27 fux0r666

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 02:13 PM

how bout after evry ufo interseption the crash site should stay for a few days after the aliens are killed during which the corpsees are packed int frezer trucks and the ufo is desmantled and caryed in unmarcked trucks to the nerist x-base

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


THat already happens, just not while the squaddies are present.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#28 Moriarty

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:09 PM

how bout after evry ufo interseption the crash site should stay for a few days after the aliens are killed during which the corpsees are packed int frezer trucks and the ufo is desmantled and caryed in unmarcked trucks to the nerist x-base


that's a great idea! this way, if you need something right away, you have to collect it and carry it aboard your transport at the end of the mission. perhaps the mission should not end automatically when all aliens are dead: you just receive a message telling you "area cleared of active hostile lifeforms", and YOU decide when to lift off.

in higher difficulty levels, you might even consider not giving any message. you have to figure out for yourself if there's any alien still alive. and if you lift off with live aliens still on the site, they kill your mop-up team or repair the ufo and lift off before they arrive. maybe you can also choose to put some of your soldiers on guard duty?

and if the crash site stays for a few days, this gives rise for a whole bunch of secondary missions... "intercept the alien rescue squad"... "re-visit the site because someone there thought he saw an alien still alive"...
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#29 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 06:16 PM

yah thats what i ment outherwise thare is no reason to show you what X-rcv does

#30 Paladin

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 07:05 AM

Well, assigning recovery times would be cool, especially not knowng exactly what's in there... A neat little trick that's not hard to implement...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#31 Snakeman

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 07:33 PM

I was thinking about this a little more, the stuff about the "after mission" and leaving sentries to protect the landing site (for your dudes to scrap the alien tech for research and for its valuables).

In another thread we've been discussing a little about the black market and wanting more out of that, but also linking it to the politics of the game a bit more. Maybe this can be one other aspect to all of that. You know, if Xenocide were to impliment factions akin to Apoc, with varying groups all wanting similar things X-COM does (in order to fight their own alien wars apart from you, helping you directly, or acting as turncoats for themselves or the aliens).

You could have it where crash sites remain a bit longer than original X-COM's standards for that reason. Plus I think HWPs might make cool sentries though albeit expensive ones, however, might be extra good training options for raw recruits too...save the veterans for the initial stuff, and let the rooks deal with faction reprisals at older crash sites til they disappear :)

Now I wonder how other things might get handled if such a thing were in place. For instance, if you sped up the game in the geoscape then got a previous crashsite message (because you have units already there). If you don't accept it and let the bad and/or "good guys" get dibs on cleanup, what happens to your sentries and in addition, what happens to market fluctuations because you didn't claim your claim? (i.e. accept it rather than decline the battle) heh.

Good ideas, though questions keep cropping up in me brain :)

#32 fux0r666

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 08:43 PM

leaving sentries is okay but no need to leave your HRU or special forces on guard duty. If xcom has agents or squaddie wannabes or trainee wash-outs that are aware of xcom's existence but aren't yet part of the squad, you'd be better off to let them guard the junk.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#33 Paladin

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:31 AM

leaving sentries is okay but no need to leave your HRU or special forces on guard duty.  If xcom has agents or squaddie wannabes or trainee wash-outs that are aware of xcom's existence but aren't yet part of the squad, you'd be better off to let them guard the junk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I'm 100% for that, then again, it would be cool iof the rookies had a counter-attack of some kind once in a while, like a small scout investigating, rogue government elements trying to steal your loot, or even a regular army if the country signed a pact with the aliens :D
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"