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#51 Serge

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:03 PM

you also need to make sure there's a "save game" feature so that people can continue their games later, because they'll probably become very long (like Civ3 online) and ppl won't have all the time in the world to continue them. and it'll also need some sort of system to check if all the players are still the same as when the game was saved (probably comparing username/password).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We already have save/load working :) This feature is just not used for network games because of the problems you have already noticed (check if all the players are still the same, ...). It works for hotseat games just fine.

And I don't think that MMO will need save/load in the middle of tactical battle, at least in its first version. As the game world will be updated in realtime, we just can't allow the players to save a tactical battle to resume it say several weeks later.
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#52 Gurluas2000

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 02:00 AM

more skins wud be nice.

#53 Hailfire22

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 06:12 PM

Ok, here's an update on my alien races idea. Finally my version of X-COM is working (thank God for patches!!!!) so I am going to be gathering data on every aspect of the aliens, beginning humans (the ones you start out with), and such and should be able to put some cold hard facts into my idea. Of course this will be in my spare time so it may take awhile. Something like after I beat the game and stomp every ethereal between here and Mars ^_^

#54 SubversiveAgent

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 02:14 PM

Ok, here's an update on my alien races idea. Finally my version of X-COM is working (thank God for patches!!!!) so I am going to be gathering data on every aspect of the aliens, beginning humans (the ones you start out with), and such and should be able to put some cold hard facts into my idea. Of course this will be in my spare time so it may take awhile. Something like after I beat the game and stomp every ethereal between here and Mars ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, personally I think everyone is thinking far too much ahead. You can get a working multiplayer online working game with the stuff you have right now, as long as the server is always up and profiles are properly stored. The hard part is figuring out how to avoid the usual pitfalls of all the other games around.

1) Teching up. Once you reach that "I have flying suits and blaster launchers" plateau, what else is there? Just blasting away at those less fortunate than you, either because you play 16 hours a day and managed to quickly amass funds/research/weapons/troops or because some flaw in the game. That has to be balanced somehow, otherwise it'll be non stop slaughter. Which will be boring for both players. Maybe set a maximum point per combat limit?

2) Men, How to earn them. UFO : Aftermath, as well as UFO 3 (Apocalypse) took a "soldiers appear over time" approach to troops. UFO is a "We're out of troops, it's Wallmart time!". I like the UFO 3 approach, as long as a minimum number of troops and gear is always available.

3) Technological development. Once again, I liked the "resources won over time" approach over the "shop smart, shop S-mart" present in UFO. Tech development in UFO : AM was if-you-see-Kayy if-you-see-Kayy, but the general logic wasn't bad.

4) Weapon & availability. AKA production & cash. Money pretty stops being a factor at one point of UFO, and then it's all about production and manufacturing.

5) Player vs Player. I see no reason why any player cannot play the aliens or X-Com. I also see no reason why several X-Com units cannot battle each other (for downed UFO, for instance). Someone suggests each player taking control of a country, but I think that there are too many players and too few countries for that. However. there's no reason for one country not to have several organizations, be they public or private, who are interested in alien technology. Much like the X-Files, even the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at the time. Picking your country, organization, (and also choosing wether they are public or private), would enable plenty of options without causing obvious mistakes. The same goes (somewhat) for the aliens who, despite being under control from cydonian high command, are fairly independent (I assume) to take whatever actions they find necessary, including clashing with other alien units/commanders.

6) Aliens. Why play them? They don't have armour, they don't have tech to develop. They don't have much, except superior tech, infinite numbers and a goal. That would have to change. Aliens will have to be made interesting, which will imply a fair amount of thinking and programming to create an alien control structure with needs and resources similar to an X-com organization.

7) "Shop smart, shop alien mart?. Which brings us back to the aliens and their goals. What do they need? What missions make them earn fresh troops, weapons and new races from cydonia? Alien abductions, terror sites, X-Com base assaults are the ones we've seen, but there must be others. Abductions in residencial areas, for example, where you must capture a specific civilian in a regular military or X-com controlled area. Military type missions, where the aliens blow up resource making buildings to deny such stuff to X-com. Flat out regular citizen abductions, to be used in the creation of new alien forms (most of the weirder aliens could be explained as such). And others, which I'm sure someone will come up with ;)

8) "I'm here you're not". Or "How do I defend my base when I'm away?". For this I would suggest training. Each soldier would have a level of training, which takes up his time (not allowing him to go on missions) and resources. All soldiers would have a minimum level of artificial intelligence, but the best trained ones would have the best available. Which isn't saying much, since I guess pretty much everyone here has rampaged thru the Super Human level in UFO. Perhaps more training would also imply that more troops are available to defend the base?

Or, putting a spin on it, how about whoever gets attacked gets to defend, whilst the attacker always has to rely on AI controlled troops? It would simplify things for the defender, and lessen the odds that opponents are easily destroyed.

9) TFTD. I've always felt that there's no reason why the menace from outer space would not ally with the threat from below. Simply say that plasma weaponry doesn't work underwater, for some reason, and that (I forget the name) doesn't work above water. You now have alot more logistical problems, as well more technologies to develop. And players can now specialize in above or below water gaming. The ultimate "underwater flying suit" would be quite cool, IMO.

I can think of more stuff but I'm outta time... write some more when I have the chance.

#55 Hailfire22

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 03:37 PM

Good ideas. Pretty much right now we're just laying out the possible ways to go with the future MMP version of UFO2000. You do bring up some good points, such as the limited tech tree, how you recieve soldiers, etc. Probably for right now though we'll be trying to get all the other stuff in, such as saving stats on the server, adding all the alien skins, new weapons, pounding out the morale system, adding ranks, and so on. Oh, and that's probably the first time I've heard X-COM and Wal-Mart used in the same sentence :D

#56 Exo2000

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 03:38 PM

Sonic Weapons also work above ground, as you'll know from base attack missions or terror missions ;)

Perhaps part underwater and part overwater missions would be nifty, ie, aliens have taken over an underwater lab and you have to secure the top level before moving everyone onto a central lift to take you down to the next level.

The walls for the lab would have to be invincible if everyone was to stay dry and not have problems with the outside being water and the inside being air. Though some hijinks with well placed explosives and running away VERY quickly could ensue. Perhaps some "Base Demolition Missions" where you have to get down inside the alien base, then plant an explosive and then get out within a set number of turns (determined by the timer set on the explosive) before the hole blown in the base sucks in loads of water and everything is depressurized and explodes. Gwhahahaha.
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#57 SubversiveAgent

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 06:58 AM

Sonic Weapons also work above ground, as you'll know from base attack missions or terror missions ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yup, but if you could edit them out.. or simply turn Sonic weapons into THE hot stuff weapon, like the underwater "flying" suit...

Perhaps part underwater and part overwater missions would be nifty, ie, aliens have taken over an underwater lab and you have to secure the top level before moving everyone onto a central lift to take you down to the next level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That should be easy to implement, the very last mission in TFTD is exactly that, as I recall...

The walls for the lab would have to be invincible if everyone was to stay dry and not have problems with the outside being water and the inside being air. Though some hijinks with well placed explosives and running away VERY quickly could ensue. Perhaps some "Base Demolition Missions" where you have to get down inside the alien base, then plant an explosive and then get out within a set number of turns (determined by the timer set on the explosive) before the hole blown in the base sucks in loads of water and everything is depressurized and explodes. Gwhahahaha.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Another blatlant WH40K fan, I see :P

#58 Stow

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 03:42 PM

Any chance of players making alliances with eachother, or in effect creating a coop mode?

#59 Mustang

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 11:50 AM

IMO there is no chance in making a MMO X-Com, you just can't balance oit out. Though it is really cool to talk about


#60 Serge

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 01:15 PM

IMO there is no chance in making a MMO X-Com, you just can't balance oit out. Though it is really cool to talk about

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't have a goal to make MMO X-COM :) What we are trying to make is a multiplayer tactical strategy game in the world where humans are defending against alien invasion. As already suggested by Hobbes, most likely you will be allowed to play only as human (and aliens will be controlled by AI).

There was a draft describing this system written by e2f, but it was not complete and available in russian language only, don't know if he still works on this document now. One of the important things is how to make human players fight each other, otherwise the game will be not very interesting beating dumb aliens. If anybody is interested, I will try to find this documant, pass it through automatic translator and post it here.

Anyway, as I have already explained in some previous posts here, making MMO part of the game depends on some other tasks that need to be done first: AI, good server with support for persistent players profile storage, decent anticheating protection, resources management. So, don't be so excited yet :) This thread in the forum mainly exists for creating a good and balanced MMO concept which avoids obvious balance and other problems. When we are ready for implementing MMO, it will be very useful.
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#61 thegreatsage

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 02:59 AM

okay here is what im thinking.
experience etc in the game is dangerous. i get my donkey kicked by the top players when the teams are equal if experience counts aswell then there will be no stopping the slaughter.

there are not enough weapons in the game as it is - should be some weird equipment to change the tactics of the game. Close range swords etc that require little TU to use (easy to sneak up and stab), silenced pistols that you cant tell where they where shot from, cloaking devices etc.

i think setting up bases etc is more of a single player game idea. the idea of having your own space craft is a lot more do-able in the multiplayer environment. when you log on you enter the earth's atmosphere.
you can customise your craft aswell. i am not sure how to challenge other players etc.

it would also be good to edit the sprites for your team members.

as for research and bases i dont think they are suited for multiplayer.

do we want to recreate x-com for massive multiplayer or do we want to make it as fun as possible?

new weapons, new items, new units, different gametypes will result in the most amount of fun in my opinion.

#62 thegreatsage

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 03:02 AM

hahaha auto change on the swearing hey? im certain i didnt type donkey :D

#63 Exo2000

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 05:52 AM

okay here is what im thinking.
experience etc in the game is dangerous. i get my donkey kicked by the top players when the teams are equal if experience counts aswell then there will be no stopping the slaughter.

there are not enough weapons in the game as it is - should be some weird equipment to change the tactics of the game. Close range swords etc that require little TU to use (easy to sneak up and stab), silenced pistols that you cant tell where they where shot from, cloaking devices etc.

i think setting up bases etc is more of a single player game idea.  the idea of having your own space craft is a lot more do-able in the multiplayer environment. when you log on you enter the earth's atmosphere.
you can customise your craft aswell. i am not sure how to challenge other players etc.

it would also be good to edit the sprites for your team members.

as for research and bases i dont think they are suited for multiplayer.

do we want to recreate x-com for massive multiplayer or do we want to make it as fun as possible?

new weapons, new items, new units, different gametypes will result in the most amount of fun in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The point is, the humans are supposed to work together against the aliens. Also, space is alien turf, so that's a no-go for spacecraft, instead the mobile-bases submarine idea works, that's the original plan.

In order for other people to see your edited team members, you would have to send them the files - also, the editing isn't easy - you need to do quite a lot, though an inbuilt editor might work.

It's supposed to be recreating X-COM as multiplayer - UT2k4 Invasion style. "Different gametypes"? This is a turn-based tactical shooter, not a first-person real-time shoot 'em up! New weapons, items, units, yes yes yes AS LONG AS THEY ARE BALANCED.

Honestly, if by gametypes you mean "Capture the Flag", forget it - it's over-used as a concept - anyway, why would anyone give two effs about their flag, and how could scoring be monitored?

Mission types, as explained above, are ok, challenges like getting a certain piece of technology, or a certain person, and getting them out alive, are ok, but NOT CTF, etc.

Area "Domination" (Defense > Domination) would work, ie, you have to take-and-hold a certain position/area (perhaps a large building or fort, or maybe just a hill) for x number of turns to keep that area on the map.

UFO2k already supports such take-and-hold situations. It also supports "Kill the enemy commander" and such - no CTF though ;p - It does have a bombing-run-esque mode where you have to put down explosives in certain squares... but I never did find out exactly what marked those squares on the tacmap. (overhead map)

Try the UFO2k betas. They're usually good fun.
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#64 thegreatsage

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:39 AM

okay here is what im thinking.
experience etc in the game is dangerous. i get my donkey kicked by the top players when the teams are equal if experience counts aswell then there will be no stopping the slaughter.

there are not enough weapons in the game as it is - should be some weird equipment to change the tactics of the game. Close range swords etc that require little TU to use (easy to sneak up and stab), silenced pistols that you cant tell where they where shot from, cloaking devices etc.

i think setting up bases etc is more of a single player game idea.  the idea of having your own space craft is a lot more do-able in the multiplayer environment. when you log on you enter the earth's atmosphere.
you can customise your craft aswell. i am not sure how to challenge other players etc.

it would also be good to edit the sprites for your team members.

as for research and bases i dont think they are suited for multiplayer.

do we want to recreate x-com for massive multiplayer or do we want to make it as fun as possible?

new weapons, new items, new units, different gametypes will result in the most amount of fun in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The point is, the humans are supposed to work together against the aliens. Also, space is alien turf, so that's a no-go for spacecraft, instead the mobile-bases submarine idea works, that's the original plan.

In order for other people to see your edited team members, you would have to send them the files - also, the editing isn't easy - you need to do quite a lot, though an inbuilt editor might work.

It's supposed to be recreating X-COM as multiplayer - UT2k4 Invasion style. "Different gametypes"? This is a turn-based tactical shooter, not a first-person real-time shoot 'em up! New weapons, items, units, yes yes yes AS LONG AS THEY ARE BALANCED.

Honestly, if by gametypes you mean "Capture the Flag", forget it - it's over-used as a concept - anyway, why would anyone give two effs about their flag, and how could scoring be monitored?

Mission types, as explained above, are ok, challenges like getting a certain piece of technology, or a certain person, and getting them out alive, are ok, but NOT CTF, etc.

Area "Domination" (Defense > Domination) would work, ie, you have to take-and-hold a certain position/area (perhaps a large building or fort, or maybe just a hill) for x number of turns to keep that area on the map.

UFO2k already supports such take-and-hold situations. It also supports "Kill the enemy commander" and such - no CTF though ;p - It does have a bombing-run-esque mode where you have to put down explosives in certain squares... but I never did find out exactly what marked those squares on the tacmap. (overhead map)

Try the UFO2k betas. They're usually good fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


well yeah i didnt mention capture the flag - would never work with a turn based game (well would be slow and shuckeroonies). i agree on the domination idea aswell

the main point im making is that UFO was a single player game and thinking outside of the square is required to make this multiplayer. is the amount of coding required so people can build bases on the geoscape to then play similar missions to those played now really worth it?

why not just make crazy weapons (of course balanced - there is the points system) and fun maps.

some random ideas

sniper - one player controls a team of 1 or 2 snipers. you cannot see direction the snipers bullets are coming from and they are camoflaged so same rules as viewing in smoke. the snipers have to take down the whole normal squad sent to get them. snipers have better eyesight too. or the snipeer could be an expensive character type that you choose.

the old "blowup something others are defending" is possible

some aliens that can climb walls :D

maps with a sewer system underneath.

grappling hook - can pull humans up onto higher levels or grab enemy units and bring them into open.

claymores

morters

the heavy laser goes through several layers (doesnt just fizzle on a wall - goes through 3 or so walls so if one player spots an enemy the heavy laser can take em out from the room over)

hmmm gotta go now but you get the idea. stuff to make the game more fun is where its at in my opinion.

#65 Serge

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 02:49 AM

Please keep on topic, this thread was created to discuss massive multiplayer concept and the way it can be implemented, not just everything about the game :)

You can create other threads for discussing 'capture the flag' mode, new aliens and other features not directly related to MMO.
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#66 Sartre

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:39 PM

Okay... maybe these suggestions were already posted, but I'm just gonna go full out with what I think should be done with the MMO version.

The Point:
The game would be played with two seperate geoscapes, one being Cydonia and the other being Earth. The object of the game would be to terrorize the other planet's continents and capture it's bases to take control of land in an all out war. Each player would control their own anti-invasion operation for either planet, and would use it to wage war on the other planet. Rather than having a base, each player would work out of universal bases on continents controlled by their planet's government.

Overall Gameplay (for my convenience, I will refer to opposing planets as team A and B):
Team A could lose a continent to team B if team B captured all of team A's government funded bases. Bases could be won by driving out opposing forces within the base via classic X-Com style fighting and occupying it in this fashion for a certain amount of time. This way if team A attacked team B's base in Africa for 15 minutes it would notify everyone on teab B that team A was attacking, and backup could be brought in. The time to take a base could drop from terror sites, too. Say the base in Africa took 15 minutes to convince the African government to allow team A to occupy it... but if team A were to terrorize an African city within that base's zone, it would now only take 14 minutes or so depending on how well team A terrorized that city. (maybe instead defenses could be cut because of funding... I dunno, this idea could be played around with. Now that base in Africa would be another spot for players on team A to respawn after being shot down or completely destroyed in battle. Depending on what percentage of the bases a team occupies, handicaps could be given to each team... say if team A occupied 60% of the bases in each geoscape, team b would be allowed to use a higher amount of points in battle than team A.

Player progression:
Each player would progress through research and gaining money via paychecks from their government after each battle. Although bases would be shared, research would be individual for each private anti-invasion company. Also, although players would work out of a ship instead of a base, they would store excess soldiers, equipment, and their scientists and engineers in their planetary government's main base that can not be taken until all of the other bases under that planetary government's control are taken.(it could have really good repulsion shields or something). This way a player could only take a certain amount of points (like in UFO2000 currently) with them to terror sites, bases, crash landings, etc. This would keep players who have lots of money and research from having complete advantage over newer players. If a battle was lost entirely without aborting or if a player's ship was shot down they could be resurrected at a nearby base.

Terror sites and base attacking:
Terror sites would start by a player simply deciding to terrorize. They would land, and just begin hunting down civilians on the map. After each turn there could be a pause of a few minutes and then the player could take another turn. This would continue until another player came to the terror site. Simple idea. The same idea could be carried out for a base, too... the player would just spend his time spreading out his units and killing scientists and engineers while they waited for the base to be captured. But what if another player came by the terror site? It seems like too long to just wait there until the battle is over... I can't think of anything for this. Either way this seems like it would be okay, and it would keep things appropriate for good geoscape to battlescape timing.

The geoscape:
The geoscape would have to be huge to accomodate a large number of bases and enough space to roam without getting attacked by a ship every two seconds. I'd suggest a huge 2d scrolling geoscape, as the geoscape is sorta clunky and would be difficult to use since geoscape would be realtime... thus other players could attack you and you wouldn't be able to even command your ship to run or see where you're clicking and what not. The geoscape would work like normal, but it would have to have a heads up display for nearby terror sites, crash landings, and base attacks. Teleporting would have to happen between geoscapes, but one teleport could allow just crowding around a teleport and attacking ships as they come out, so many teleporters would need to be used.

Ummm... I had so many ideas, but they aren't coming to me right now... so just look at that and tell me what you think.

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#67 MadRat

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 02:57 AM

I have idea of some basic scheme of massive multiplayer game's model. I'm not sure it's capable of working, but you can give a look to it. It's rather a model of rules, I have no good story which can describe why things are so.
Every player ownes several objects - farms, housing estates, bases, martian colonies. I'll call all these objects colonies. Every object brings resources to its owner - money, elerium etc. There can be some soldiers on every object. There are aircrafts also. The number of aircrafts is much lesser than the number of colonies - may be only 1 aircraft per player, not sure.
Online player can attack another online player who isn't playing tactic battle with someone else.Agressor sends aircraft to one of enemies colonies. Only soldiers that are in colony at this moment take part in defense. Players will try to have his best soldiers and equipment in aircraft. So attacking team will be better in general and will win. Attacking and defending players will have different goals. Attacker's goal is to have a minimal casualities. So goal of defender is vice versa - to do maximum damage to attacking team. It seems like tactical battle ballance in original ufo.
Rare but important event is when two aircrafts meeting in one colony.
If player having aircraft in his colony looses battle he looses aircraft. Attacker always have aircraft in colony battle take place. Player without aircraft wil loose all his colonies soon.
If one player captures more than 50% of all colonies, he "wins".
What are the possible advantages of this model? More balance - weak player have some chances in attacking a stronger one. Diplomacy - players will need some diplomacy to prevent a reciprocal destroying. May be fast start - easy implementation of first very base version whitout new graphic like geoscape.
This model partially inspired by some qualities of a strategy in PBEM Galaxy Plus.

#68 MadRat

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 06:43 AM

I can describe schematic interface.
Screen 1: list of active games on server. Player can enter into game he already play or begin to play in new game. Player entering into new game gets 3 new colonies.

Screen 2: list of online colonies:
colony 1: name, type, owner, profit, aircraft (if presents)
colony 2: name, type, owner, profit, aircraft (if presents)
...
Player can:
enter into his colony screen;
send aircraft to another colony. If colony is not his own, it means attacking.

Screen 3: colony:
list of soldiers and list of equipment in colony and at aircraft;
player can:
move soldiers and things between colony and aircraft;
buy/sell soldiers and things;

Strategic part works in turn based style. For example, aircrafts can fly only every 10 minutes (simultaneously for all players). One player can take part only in 1 battle. So server have to choose random list of battles which will start at this turn. The more aircrafts player will send to attack and the less aircrafts will be sent to attack colonies of this player the better chance that the player be attacker at this turn, not defender. If attacker wins, he become a new owner of colony.

Player gets money from colonies at the end of his online turn too.

#69 Tomsik

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:58 PM

hmm.. i will be iritating, how with progress?

#70 Serge

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:25 PM

hmm.. i will be iritating, how with progress?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See here:
http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=5305
And here:
http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=7296

About massive multiplayer, we just don't have enough resources to work on everything at once. If you want to help, you are welcome :)
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#71 Tomsik

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:55 AM

hmm... i want to help, but i know only delphi :Cry:

#72 Lycurgos

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 08:40 AM

How about leaving detailed management to an AI? Let players register as mercenary teams, hired by the main XCom organization, or as alien clone-batches or whatever. Let them design their teams, limited by starting resources and race quirks. Successful/wealthy teams get to build their own base (or maybe everyone gets one from the start?).

Have the AI activate the various mission types, realtime in geoscape. While a player is online, there's a chance its base will be detected and turned into a mission for the enemy teams. Once the mission is taken/reached by one human and one alien team, the battle starts. The winner gets rewards from mother org, or plunder like bounties (per intact body), food, gear, elerium etc, as well as experience. Turning captured gear or aliens over to XCom central or Cydonia increases your chance of being trusted with alien/human adapted gear. If a team decides to turn coat, a separate diplomacy mission opens for each side; treachery is successful if both missions succeed. (Maybe have a third "ronin" side where failed turncoats end up, fighting both XCom and Aliens for fun and profit?)

Give each team a fame rating/alien equivalent, and have new volunteers/clones appear according to it. (or just brainwash captives) Extremely outstanding performance might be rewarded with a lick of an über-item, like a single blaster bomb and launcher, a flying suit or a powerful psion.

Keep a total score of the progress of the war; assign penalites and rewards on all members of Alien/XCom sides according to this score. Perhaps really bad performance for the xcom side should reduce them to a postapocalyptic state, while the equivalent for the alien side leaves them cut off from cydonia. Reset the game periodically.

#73 Tain

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 09:01 PM

Interesting stuff! I do have a few comments and a suggestion though.


First off, i think that if you do not allow people to play as the aliens, alot of potential flavor will be lost from the game. There is alot of potential for alien players, from sending your ships to terrorize, abduct and scout around, and defending them when they are shot down. That would be extremely fun. I would think think it would be pretty easy to balance the two sides also. Let the aliens start out with very basic plasma technology (pistol, rifle, and grenade) and make them research the rest. Alien types can stand in for the armor types of the humans (such as sectoid = unarmored human, floater = light armored human, muton = power armored human, and Ethereal = flying armored human. Reapers and such would be the alien tanks.

The Ufos can work in a similar way. The tiny scout could be just that, the equivalant of the interceptor. The small scout (the pancake) could be the alien skyranger. The "X" ufo could be their lightning and the medium/large could be their avenger so to speak. The "Very large nasty UFO of doom" could be the players base, a "mothership".

Also, someone mentioned the problem of having your base attacked while you are on a mission. This could be addressed easily. Simply have player bases go "tracking lost" for the time that their game is in progress. When the game ends, you get "tracking reestablished" and can go after their base.

Just some random thoughts from Tain, and you guys are doing an awesome job.

#74 meodai

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 06:40 PM

i just hope you will not eliminate the "tactical only" multiplayer mod !

#75 maasto

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 04:27 PM

I was just wondering.. is the mmorpg idea dead? I sure hope not...
It's just that the last post was made in may :k

#76 Kratos

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 04:52 PM

No the idea is not dead. It has been thought of in an early state, but we are currently not ready for it since not all features are 100% complete and other featues need to be added. It will take a VERY long time before even existing.

#77 x0563511

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 07:26 PM

Besides, it will start with small "worldlet" servers probably, untill bugs etc get worked out, and someone poneys up the cash to pay for such a server (MMO - especially one that would be so AI dependent - is expensive. You need powerful servers with large disk and memory capacities, fast memory, fast multi-taskable (multiple 64-bit likely) CPUs, bandwidth, rackspace, and maintenence.

#78 maasto

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 01:35 PM

Besides, it will start with small "worldlet" servers probably, untill bugs etc get worked out, and someone poneys up the cash to pay for such a server (MMO - especially one that would be so AI dependent - is expensive. You need powerful servers with large disk and memory capacities, fast memory, fast multi-taskable (multiple 64-bit likely) CPUs, bandwidth, rackspace, and maintenence.

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isn't that what a small, formal monthly fee is for? I know I'd love to pay it - just don't get greedy

#79 Jamaru

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:41 PM

No Maasto it won't cost money. This game is 100% free. :D
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#80 Sporb

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 05:18 PM

RE maasto , the same result could be gained simply by addin a donations area (like Xenocide has) , i would happily donate som coin if it means ufo2000's development and maintenance would be aided

Edited by Sporb, 27 July 2005 - 05:20 PM.


#81 Serge

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:35 PM

RE maasto , the same result could be gained simply by addin a donations area (like Xenocide has) , i would happily donate som coin if it means ufo2000's development and maintenance would be aided

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hosting webpage and game server does not cost us anything currently. The only expences we have, is our time and work we spend on developing the game :)
Maybe a donation system can be added, but how should we share the donated money and how to spend it? Buy some beer and have a party? :)

As x0563511 said, maybe we will have a need for expensive hosting later, so that donation idea could be really used. But there are probably some ways to host even a resource consuming game server for free, for example I have seen such information on http://happypenguin.org
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#82 Kratos

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 09:50 AM

I hope this game doesn't turn into a monthly charge like Laser Squad Nemesis. If so, I don't know if I would stick around. I already got my first cussing out by a sore loser yestersday. Told me: "F*** You A**ho*e" after I beat him... :KooKoo:

Sorry to admit this game isn't worth a monthly fee...It's great free, but the fee would take all the fun out of the game for me.

#83 Blood Angel

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:34 PM

I know. The best games are ruined by monthly fees. Runescape could have been so good, but you need to pay to do frankly anything.

#84 Sporb

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 04:37 PM

a monthly fee would be stoopid , but donations to add or maintain servers is acceptable to me.

PS: I like beer :beer: good idea serge. And non of these simple fools would have any idea what thier donations would be spent on ... um ... i hope i didnt say that out loud
:JK:

Edited by Sporb, 28 July 2005 - 04:39 PM.


#85 Sharp

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 03:36 AM

I was just wondering how the MMO would be run in a server.

Would it be a case like say playing a multiplayer game where you would have 10 people in a server duking it out until they win, in a sort of you leave your out of the game. (or save and continue again)

Or is it going to be a , you leave, your temporarily out of the game, ready to come back in at any moment and its going to be a server where you can keep on playing.

Personally I would prefer the 1st case at it would be more quicker and fun, rather then playing for days upon end.

Also I think that you shouldn't play as the Aliens, although it might take some of the flavour out of the game, it will make it more simplified. Also aliens do have more powerful ships and aliens are automatically more powerful at the start with the advanced tech they have. Just image trying to stop a terror mission with player-controlled aliens using heavy plasma while all you have are auto-cannons.

For the players, they are all working against the aliens, and each other. Im wondering how the game would work on geoscape, would it be like nomal geoscape set in say 1min mode so its not too slow.

I was thinking that you could make the geoscape slightly turn-based, players give thier commands for the hour/day/week etc... and then all the players get a End Turn Button, once all have pressed it shows the Geoscape, anything you can see happening in that hour i.e. enemy craft flying over detected by your radar, the movement of your craft, enemy bases that you have detected.

Although this will make interception of enemy ships harder it will hopefully solve the time problem. Mabye you could set interceptors to auto-intercept if they detect enemy craft, of course it would be annoying to have your skyranger shot down while flying over enemy territory to get to a crash site.

Now if you have a lot of players playing it will also be hard in battlescape as everyone wont be fighting at the same time. What I was thinking is that for say every 5 turns in Battlescape it becomes 1 Geoscape hour, that way you can make playing the game out-of battlescape going at the same time while other players are fighting. Also when using the 5 turns = 1 hour you can send reinforcements at an existing battle.

When one of your bases is under attack all craft fly and patrol/land outside the base, they can be moved to your other bases if they have hanger space, you can also have the option of extracting troops by sending a skyranger/lightning to evacuate troops and equipment.

Other players should also be able to reinforce battles and possibly assist you as well. However it would make it extremly complicated to have say a 4-way brawl going on, it would be better to have that you can only reinforce one of the two sides in an existing battle, you would keep control of all your units and ally with the side you are reinforcing (temporarily at least). This would mean that you would only have two locations where more units would come in, which would make it much much easier. Each reinforcement would be near each of the transports

When you get reinforcements in base attack, they come in via a hanger, or the access lift if there is no more hangers. Also when you attack another persons base, you have the option to have your skyranger/lightning/avenger drop down into thier hangers, or to have them come in from the access lift, or a combination of both (that means base attackers can evacuate thier troops by either going into thier transport and dusting off, or going onto the 2nd floor of the access lift which can be made bigger, and more like the green starting room in an alien base.

Reinforcements would be more like Romance of the three kingdoms (download from abandonia to see what i mean), you can have the option to pay other players to assist in an existing battle (but they only get paid if they win the battle).

Diplomacy would be an important factor in the game, when you ally with another player then you can trade quicker (you wouldnt have middlemen doing shady transfers in backstreets, just the supplies being sent almost directly to the base), your radar would be shared so you can cover more of the globe, also an important use of an ally, when your base is under-attack, they can not only reinforce the battle, but they can evacuate your troops from the battle (you can evacuate your own troops if you send a transport to your base).

If your base is under attack, when your 5 turns are over and you go back to the geoscape, your base which is under attack cannot show any information or allow you to do any manufacturing/research. (Would be a bit odd, "hmm il just make this laser cannon while these kids fight outside... hey.... get outta my workshop" *throws spanner* "darn kids") , however all your other bases will still be active so you can research and manufacture there, and send reinforcements.

Hmm, I hope I havent forgotten anything, and this is easy to understand, some of it might be randomly placed with no semblance to the previous paragraphs ive written.

Hope you manage to get the MMO working though, should be really cool.

#86 Exo2000

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 05:12 AM

The idea was to have it like X-COM, but instead of having bases (a lot of players would mean bases would eventually cover the map) the players have giant underwater subs. When they log off, the sub goes into silent mode at the bottom of the ocean and all the crew and the player's men get to rest. When they log on, the sub powers up and starts moving. The players should keep their subs moving and on the go to avoid either the alien players or AI from finding them and attacking. From the sub, the players carry out all their research and manufacture. The subs are HUGE, probably capable of carrying several smaller subs, and also launching them, ala TFTD submerged bases.

Also, all the players would probably be on X-COM. The Alien side economy has no model to be based on (though there have been plenty of ideas) so the players will fight against an AI. Obviously, the more players there are, the more alien subs there are.

Edited by Exo2000, 30 July 2005 - 05:14 AM.

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#87 Kratos

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 08:43 AM

I have been playing this game for about 4 months now...and I have come the thought that if you got MMO, you would throw away the "instant" battle feature am I correct? I do not want the instant battle feature gone...so I refuse to see MMO come.

While talking to nappes, he mentioned something about "get rid of the geoscape (MMO) thought...just have a virtual store for the game when you play" which gave me an idea. Why not have the game start out as 1 weapon set, 1 basic tile set, etc. ("new" set most likely) and make others unlockable from the virtual store? You could buy user made maps, user made weapons, and user made tile sets that comes with basic maps...this would be collected on the server. Of course you will have to only put sets that are completely new on the server that didn't conflict with copyrighted material. And if they download it from somewhere else...then who cares? It won't really be a competition...just for fun.

The earing of credits could be this way: a loss would result in 10 credits earned, and a win would result in 100 credits earned while playing the game.

We could always use the geoscape for single player.

Edited by Kratos, 30 July 2005 - 08:44 AM.


#88 x0563511

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 11:35 AM

I don't like the idea, myself. I would rather see MMO, but with "deathmatch" ability (server play like we have now). Don't worry about people not using it - many people don't exactly have the time or wish to play a MMOG, myself included. But I can definatly see the potential.

#89 Serge

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 01:10 PM

I have come the thought that if you got MMO, you would throw away the "instant" battle feature am I correct?

Why should we? Don't see any reason for that to happen. You seem to have some strange conspiracy theories :)
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#90 Serge

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 01:40 PM

What I see in a potential MMO mode is just a simple economics, soldier recruitment, buying equipment and research. It just means some ways to gradually advance, trains soldiers (RPG element) for those who are bored with just tournament style battles.

It can be a coopearative multiplayer extension for a single player game (which we don't have either right now :) ). The same single player game as you would play yourself, but with some other human players living in the same world. Geoscape should be probably realtime with no time compression at all, if the research takes 2 days in the game for example, it takes the same 2 real days on the server. Interceptors should be relatively fast, reaching targets within a few minutes in order not to take too long waiting, but not too fast in order to give the players time to make decisions.

The number of battles will be limited by quite a low number of recruits joining each day, so people having more time to be online will not have a big advantage. And while you are offline, your scientists are doing research, base facilities get buit, etc. It should be possible to win by performing only a few dozens of missions.

All the game can be divided into sessions with the duration of several weeks probably. If the players can't get to Cydonia for that time and blow up the cyberbrain, the Earth is considered conquered by the aliens :) If any new players join in the middle of session - they get some starting technologies to compensate some of the lost time.

And everything should be designed to be very simple yet balanced and interesting, otherwise we will not be able to implement this (unless we get a lot of new active and motivated developers joining :) ).
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#91 Exo2000

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 02:11 PM

It would have to be months not weeks, otherwise the players would stand no real chance of making it to Cydonia without time compression.
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#92 XXDarrienX

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 12:40 AM

Well I've been reading this and I had an idea for a MMO, however each player would play the side of a single soldier, and it would be done similarly to an FPS and one Player being the Base Commander.

To keep the turn based side of the game of course, each base can support up to 200 soldiers, who form their own squad in the base. Each base is controlled by the Base Commander who controls the Interceptions, base construction...etc like one person controls every single base in the original game. The funding given to each base would be based on that bases performance which could be a formula. One idea that came to mind is one player has the role of X-COM Supreme Commander and he distributes funds to the bases. However, its exploitable like you might say if one player controls the funds then he could support one base that his friends are at, if you negelect a base and it lacks the ability to fight the aliens in their current location then the country that base resides will decrease funding which would dramatically affect every single base. The goal is to beat the Aliens, not help your friends at some of the bases.

It would be excellent for the Aliens to be controlled by players, however they would need to balanced. My ideas as far as that goes is as follows.

Every Alien mission that is conducted successfully in a region of the world earns them Rerequistion Points, Alien High Command then grants special resources like Chrysalid Cloning Technology and etc. To prevent the Alien Players from sending in Battleships at the beginning, they will need to prove themselves by completing missions. They will start with a substanial fleet but it will be small that allows X-COM a chance to defeat them. Alien Players once they gain enough influence from the Brain as its called in the game, they are assigned to scout out locations for Alien Bases and then to build them.

Example Mission

Mission Type: Terror Mission
Location: San Diego
Crew: 8 Sectoids, 4 Cyberdisks
Reward: 5 RPs per Civilian killed, 10 per Civilian Captured, 20 per X-COM Soldier killed, 40 per X-COM Soldier Captured. Then you of course get penalties based on your failure.

This is just a rough idea to be analyzed.

#93 Sharp

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 06:01 PM

The idea about the aliens with Requisition points sounds good as then the game wouldnt be as unbalanced if you had alien players. Of course implementing the human side of it having base commanders and all that might be a bit weirder on the gameplay.

One thing i want to know, is what happens with simulatenous battles, i.e you are attacking another player/ufo and get attacked at the same time by another player?

Also, can you have the option to have a combat go with AI so AI controls your troops for that battle while you do other stuff or are offline or fighting another battle?

#94 XXDarrienX

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 11:21 PM

The idea about the aliens with Requisition points sounds good as then the game wouldnt be as unbalanced if you had alien players. Of course implementing the human side of it having base commanders and all that might be a bit weirder on the gameplay.

One thing i want to know, is what happens with simulatenous battles, i.e you are attacking another player/ufo and get attacked at the same time by another player?

Also, can you have the option to have a combat go with AI so AI controls your troops for that battle while you do other stuff or are offline or fighting another battle?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thats why you got multiple squads at bases so even while one squad is assaulting a UFO, your base gets assaulted you will have others to defend it.

You could also go this route, one player plays a soldier, that way you got roughly 40-50 soldiers per base. As your character gets kills they gain rank(ie. gaining levels) to enhance their attributes and you could create your character at build to determine what you want to specialize in, we could add some attributes and skills to provide multiple choices.

#95 Blood Angel

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 04:14 AM

I think we shouldn't have it exactly like Xcom. The whole "Go to Cydonia" thing wouldn't be good, although maybe it could work like Cantium in the MMO londinivm: In that, once you get to level 15 and have over 100 knowledge you can go to cantium. So Cydonia could be a harder version of Earth for veterans, with more alien base runs, and more attacks on your base.

#96 Violazr

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:01 AM

If you consider that after some time the humans will have all the tech there is anyway, you could make two similar planets right from the beginning. And if the races have the resources, they can send UFOs/Avengers to each other.

#97 Blood Angel

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 08:08 AM

Nah, you see what happens: If you wish, you can load up your avenger, once you get it, and go to cydonia, where you can kick some donkey, then return to earth.

#98 XXDarrienX

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 03:50 PM

I think we shouldn't have it exactly like Xcom. The whole "Go to Cydonia" thing wouldn't be good, although maybe it could work like Cantium in the MMO londinivm: In that, once you get to level 15 and have over 100 knowledge you can go to cantium. So Cydonia could be a harder version of Earth for veterans, with more alien base runs, and more attacks on your base.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What exactly is wrong with going to Cydonia? Thats how the game resets once the aliens are beaten and you fight again. MMOFPS games like PlanetSide for instance has faction wars and eventually to conquer all the islands and gain ranks and reset. Granted what my idea is not a MMOFPS but players can keep their ranks and skills after a reset which would give them an edge against the Aliens in the next war and with an expansion we could do Terror from the Deep.

#99 Exo2000

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 07:09 PM

Or, make it so the players keep their ranks within their organisations, and power, but have to start with basic stuff. So;

Player A acquires "Commander" status (highest rank) in one game, and through careful co-ordination, he and other X-COM players eventually win the war.

Once the war is won, the game ends, and then starts over. Player A is -still- a Commander, and still has all his research and manufacturing data, but, like any other Rookie, he must start with the same base, equipment, and limited budget. This gives them an advantage (allowing them to use lasers, etc.) whilst it not being too powerful. :)
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#100 Serge

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 09:53 PM

Once the war is won, the game ends, and then starts over. Player A is -still- a Commander, and still has all his research and manufacturing data, but, like any other Rookie, he must start with the same base, equipment, and limited budget. This gives them an advantage (allowing them to use lasers, etc.) whilst it not being too powerful. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not good to give good players even more advantage. I would prefer something like the original tftd story - after the war is over, all the anti-alien organizations get disbanded and lose all (or probably all technologies) technologies. That's probably a lame explanation, but once we get another invasion, we need to start from scratch :)
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