Skipping Lasers Altogether

[Deathskull]

I want your opinion on this. i was playing a game in ufo and i just got done researching the medikit. So i was about to start on lasers when i just decided screw lasers and go straight to plasma pistols.I bought more scientists to speed up the research so i could get plasma quickly. I am now to the point where i have flying suits and heavy plasmas and have not even started on laser tech yet. Is this a good idea?

[Cpl. Facehugger]

No. Laser cannons are the most efficient money maker in the game.

Also, if your guy in a flying suit gets MCed while carrying a heavy plasma, he is alot more dangerous than one carrying a laser rifle.

[[NKF]]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with skipping lasers if that's how you want to play. Only you probably shouldn't start on the plasma pistols. Start on the heavy plasma or the plasma rifle. The pistol and clip combination doesn't net you the craft plasma cannon - if that's what you were aiming for. It's more efficient research-wise to get the craft plasma cannon first before moving on to the plasma pistol.

 

Laser tech is a decent technology branch, and very useful. But it's not essential. In fact, even plasma tech is not essential. As long as you have something that's strong enough to defeat or knock out whatever you're currently fighting (and enough weapon reloads to take all of them out), that's all you need.

 

- NKF

[Robo Dojo 58]

I think plasma research takes much longer than laser research. Maybe you should finish off laser weapons. With your massive squad of scientists, it shouldn't take more than a few days.

[Trevelyan]

There are 3 distinct phases when i play a game of Xcom... and I NEED Lasers.

 

1 - Research lasers

 

2 - Collect Plasma magazines till i can sustain myself effectivly forever

 

3 - KICK ARSE!

[[Blehm 98]]

Yeah, no lasers until sectopod's. Those reapers are hard enouph on veteran before you get lasers(shiver).

[Robo Dojo 58]

But, lasers are so insanely quick to research, why wouldn't you want to get them? You can have laser rifles researched in the time it takes to do the medkit. They're really that fast.

[[dipstick]]

well, I find autocannons with HE ammo exceedingly effective at killing just about anything; I barely use lasers for a LONG time. Only use I have for them (and I could use plasma for this) is to breach the small UFOs without blowing the power source. But then, one autoshot with HE will make sure they all die. Depends how desperate you are for E115.

[remysweet]

I get lasers as soon as possible. Lasers are pretty quick to research with 20-30 scientists, wheras plasma takes much longer/more scientists. I usually have laser rifles and pistols midway through Feb, so I only have to go on a few missions with regular rifles. Of course, I keep autocannons around until I have heavy plasma and alien grenades. Edited April 3, 2004 by remysweet

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I make a beeline straight for laser rifles. If I'm lucky, I can have 10 done by february 1st.

[.Saranbaatar]

First of al high

recently stumbl;ed upon this forum, didn;t know UFO was stil so much alive

haven't played until last weekend i discovered the pathc to run it on XP and the wonderfull xcomutil

 

second

 

first thing i always go for is laser(rifle), the reasons

 

fast, cheap and unlimited ammo and it makes good money wich is crucial for my gameplay, i tend to overspend money on base facilities, so i need constant cashflow

 

i always have everyone carry laserrifles as primary weapon, the elite also carry stuff like HP or Blaster launcher/small launcher

[Mustang]

I think this would fit better in strategies

[mikker]

in my game, i have 50.000.000$+, and havn't researched heavy laser.

[[Blehm 98]]

I always have maybe 4-6 just for times when i need them. Plasma rifle is really better, but yeah, these research fast, and help later on when you have cyberdisks and reapers(I just use IC ammo and autocannon)

[Kamikazee]

I prefer lasers, dunno why. i just do.

[[Blehm 98]]

I tried heavy laser and found it usefull. So maybe you could survive without usig plasmas and using only lasers.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Heavy lasers are like plasma rifles without the auto shot or elerium cost.

They're also great against sectopods.

[[Blehm 98]]

And they are strong enouph to take on almost anything with only a couple shots. I killed a guy with one shot from the front with a heavy laser! The heavy laser is also like an early on Heavy plasma, and still rivals it. It IS more powerful than almost any otehr weapons in the game, other than Heavy plasma, Alien grenade, high explosive, and blaster launcher

[Danny252]

Lasers are good because:

Early in the game you don't get much of a flow of plasma(weapons or clips) and are dead easy to make(and sell ) there is no expensive ammo(1 laser, unlimited shots) Whereas plasma needs alot of missions and manufacturing to keep it going.(expensive)

But Blaster launchers rule everything

[Kamikazee]

also lasers tend to be more accurate on auto than plasmas are. Or maybe thats just my imagination

[Selmak]

Because laser weapons don't need clips, they leave room in 80 items for other things you need.

 

I also tended to use Laser Rifles on auto a lot, sometimes to take out vast sections of wall and clear the way for those across-the-map sniper shots.

[Adun_Toridas]

Oh man, you´ll need laser rifles. Don´t forget that they may permit you to collect plasma clips easier. Moreover, forget Heavy Laser ´till ethereals first mission.

[Tsereve]

And to quote the age-old X-Com proverb:

 

[VOICE=SPOOKY]As long as you haven't lost yet, you're winning. . .[/VOICE]

 

Although Sectopods are gonna be heck if you get them before researching Blaster Launchers. . .

 

Not to mention no more "Kill everything, shoot everyone, use up all the smoke tiles" missions.

 

It's just not X-Com without laser weaponry. Great for killing obstructions in the way, such as civilia---civilized structions.

[[stewart]]

Hmm? What incredibly wise sage said that!

WRT building laser cannons for fun and profit, please see the "When to stock-up on engineers" thread.

[[Blehm 98]]

small launchers get them pretty good though... especially if you hit the ground

[Exo2000]

Although Sectopods are gonna be heck if you get them before researching Blaster Launchers. .

 

I'm reliably informed that lasers will kick serious Sectopod arse.

[[NKF]]

They are, but they don't fare so well on superhuman due to the increased armour.

 

Of course, that is not to say a laser tank or heavy laser won't be able to score a few crippling hits. It's mainly the laser rifles that lose their effectiveness.

 

The small launcher is also less effective on superhuman as well, and can no longer do multiple instant kills with one bomb. It can still manage knocking out a single sectopod at a time though, depending on how the computer throws its dice.

 

- NKF

[[Blehm 98]]

Well, if you hit vulnerable armor though, you can do more damage

[Exo2000]

Specifically back and sides, yes. Mostly, you'll do more damage as they have less armour in that location. :wink1:

[[Blehm 98]]

yeah, but under armor is the weakest armour of all, so if you can get a good hit on it with the stun launcher then do it

[[NKF]]

Yes, but even the rear, under and sides have increased due to the difficulty level, making them much harder to punch through.

 

A beginner level sectopod cannot even resist being clipped by the edge of a stun bomb explosion (hence the ability of taking down multiple sectopods with one stun bomb). A superhuman sectopod insists that you score a direct hit to take advantage of the weaker under-armour - and it'll fall only if the game rolls a strong enough damage number. But mind you, instant-take downs with the stun bomb are still possible - they're just not as frequent as on beginner. Think about it: firing off a few stun bombs and instantly taking a sectopod down is still a lot better than emptying several heavy plasmas clips, right?

 

The heavy laser and tank laser work well against the rear armour, but often the sectopod will be facing you (solution: surround it). You'd have to experiment yourself with the laser rifle against superhuman sectopods and see how well they work for you. The laser pistol on the other hand will not cut it - well, it can do the occasional few points of damage, but you'd be dead by the time you could burn enough holes in the sectopod to mildly wound it.

 

- NKF

Edited June 10, 2005 by NKF

[Blood Angel]

I was doing well with bullet rifles, hadn't researched laser yet, somehow managed to take down the entire crew of a medium-size UFO with bullet weapons. I researched plasma pistols first, and then clips. Now every soldier in my team goes into battle with a rifle in one hand and a plasma pistol in the other, because when I need to aim, I use the rifle, and up close I roast things with plasma.

[j'ordos]

accuracy drops when you try to use a two-handed weapon (anything that is not a pistol/stun rod ), so when you need to aim, you'd better use the pistol anyway. Edited July 31, 2005 by j'ordos

[Blood Angel]

Hmm, I'll try that.

[[Blehm 98]]

you should try one laser pistol and one plasma pistol

plasma when you need firepower and laser when you need high volume of shots and no ammo usage

[Blood Angel]

Lasers. Right. Gotcha. Normally I just bypass them and use stolen plasma pistols.

[Tithis]

I would never dream of bypassing Lasers, even when my guys are equiped with Heavy Plasma Rifles I keep a Laser Rifle in their backpack just in case.

[Blood Angel]

Ah, I see what my problem is.

 

Laser envy.

[Zombie]

you should try one laser pistol and one plasma pistol

plasma when you need firepower and laser when you need high volume of shots and no ammo usage

Good point. The Plasma Pistol is a fairly decent weapon. The one area that Plasma weaponry excels at is accuracy. Taken as a whole, the Plasma pistol is 20% more accurate than the Laser Pistol. Going to be doing some long-range sniping? Use the Plasma Pistol. The boost in accuracy is a real plus.

 

The Laser Pistol excels in many areas though.

• It has only 6 points less damage than the Plasma Pistol.
  
• No clips
  
• Unlimited ammunition
  
• Very fast. Auto: 25% TU, Snap: 20 % TU, Aimed: 55% TU
  
• Can be acquired rapidly by researching Laser Weapons.
  
• Is a better choice to use against beginner-level Sectopods. Higher skill levels require the Laser Rifle.
  

I would like to point out that if you carry both a Laser Pistol and a Plasma Pistol, only the Laser Pistol would be used for reaction shots. This is a good thing because the Laser Pistol has unlimited ammo and worse accuracy. If a reaction shot with a Laser Pistol misses, who cares? Nothing is lost. If a reaction shot with a Plasma Pistol misses, there is the loss of the ammo shot as well as a greater probability that the alien will shoot back.

 

Me? I'd opt for the Laser Pistol over any other pistol in the game. Load a few of these on your transport, and when you run into an ammunition crisis, just pick one up and start shooting. Also, you never know when you might want to start reaction training your troops.

 

- Zombie

[[NKF]]

The plasma pistol has one other thing going for it - its autoshot and snapshots cost the same amount of TUs to fire at 30%. This puts it second only to the laser pistol for autoshot speed.

 

Unfortunately, when looking at the plasma pistol and taking into account the other plasma weapons, it doesn't excel at anything in particular but autoshot accuracy and speed when the 20% penalty for two-handed weapons is in effect. Even with the 20% penalty, the heavy plasma is more accurate for aimed shots and costs just as much to fire as the pistol at 60% TUs, while the plasma rifle is more accurate for snapshots and costs the same to fire at 30% TUs. So the plasma pistol generally sits in the middle.

 

And for those that want numbers, here's the accuracy for the three plasma weapons with the 20% two-handed item penalty cost in effect. Naturally, because the pistol is 1-handed, it isn't altered:

 

Plasma Pistol
 Aim: 85%
 Auto: 50%
 Snap: 65%

Plasma Rifle
 Aim: 80%
 Auto: 44%
 Snap: 68%

Heavy Plasma 
 Aim: 88% 
 Auto: 40%
 Snap: 60%

 

The firing costs are identical between all the weapons except autoshots. Snaps are 30%, Aimed are 60%. Auto costs are 30%, 36%, and 35% respectively.

 

Now that I look at them side by side, the differences are quite minimal at best, so the plasma pistol is still the better all rounder when you need to use both hands.

 

I still prefer the laser pistol. I must admit however that as the laser pistol is the least accurate weapon in the whole game, the plasma pistol - even the regular pistol! - provides better accuracy over long distances.

 

- NKF

Edited August 6, 2005 by NKF

[[Blehm 98]]

yeah, i always keep 2 laser pistols on board my transport, and also usually 1 plasma pistol

the plasma pistol is either used for my heavy grenader(4-5 high explosives) but could get a laser pistol instead, and in that case he gets the laser pistol and blaster launcher gets the plasma pistol. Depends on my mood

[Snakeman]

On a different track from that intent of the original poster, I'm currently enjoying my lasers only game

 

I've grown to have an appreciation for all three types, but mostly the pistol.

[Pherdnut]

I think Laser Rifles are worth it. You just aren't going to have Heavy Plasma in time for that first potential batch of Cyberdiscs.

[Oldblue153]

I love my Lazers, even after I begin to get Aliens that are pretty much impervious to them i still keep Lazer Rifles in stock as when i finally get that hyperwave decoder thing researched i re-equipp craft that go to sectiod or floater (Aquatiod & Gillman) scenario's.

 

Also the lazer rifles were very useful when i had flying suits as when one of my soldiers gets MC'd and shoots a fellow Agent ...well it doesnt have much affect on the suit...yeah it can kill but very rarely often no affect at all or a slight wound.

 

And although ive not booted it up i do intend to try a campaign with scotts improved lazer technology's and simply not use alien tech outside of the gernades (cause human gernades suck and one could justify the use of alien tech to build a simple bomb...we are after all notorious as a race for creating bombs with any new tecnology)

[testy]

IMHO, research and manufacture laser pistols as fast as possible. By that time, you should have recovered at least one HP and clip so use them to research to plasma cannon ASAP. Manufacture and load onto your interceptors ASAP and then switch back to research & build laser rifle.

 

This way, you can build up a stock of recovered HP and clips whilst the plasma cannon-armed interceptors allow you to handle large UFOs which the game invariably seems to throw at you round about the beginning of Feb (and which Avalanch-equipped interceptors can struggle against).

 

Cheers

[Pherdnut]

I used to do that, but early game agents can't the hit the broad side of the Death Star from 10 feet with a laser pistol. It's worth getting the rifle, IMO. You can skip lasers and get away with it, but you'll need to compensate with extra rocket launchers and smart use of other gear until you finally get the Heavy Plasma.

[Dover]

Skipping lasers is kind of like dumping E-115 into the ocean. Or giving it back to the aliens. Or...something else stupid like that.

 

My strategy is to get away from bullet weaps ASAP. Let's face it. They suck. The less time I have to spend wasting 11 shots on a sectiod 8 tiles away with a bullet rifle, the better.

 

Damn bullet rifles...

 

The heavy plasma will only get you so far. There's a reason nothing is the game is resistant to lasers (Except zombies, and their HP is so low nobody cares).

 

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, it might have been the armor on zombies that was low...

Edited February 11, 2006 by Dover

[[Blehm 98]]

I think zombies are 200% resistant to everything, i think they have jumpsuit armor.

[Dover]

Zombies are 200% resistant to everything, but they're still really easy to kill. That's because the HP is so low, right?

[Zombie]

200% resistant? No.

 

I don't like to use the word "resistant" because it is not very clear and you have to convert the damage modifiers numbers. The word "susceptible" is unambiguous and you can use the damage modifier percentages the way they are. With that out of the way, here are the susceptibility ratings of the damage types against zombies:

 

AP: 60%

I: 100%

HE: 80%

Laser: 70%

Plasma: 70%

Stun: 0%

Melee: 100%

Acid Spit (Celatid): 100%

 

All damage types (except for HE, I, and the Stun Bomb) follow the rule where Damage Range = 0 to 2*Listed Ammo Damage. So a unit with 100% susceptibility can have a max damage of double (or 200%) that of the listed. The reason why the factor of 2 is involved is because that number creates a range where the Listed Damage falls right in the middle (the average).

 

Zombies have 84 for health and almost no armor. Still, the health rating is rather high making it somewhat difficult to kill.

 

- Zombie

Edited February 12, 2006 by Zombie