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#51 Deimos

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 05:50 PM

Yup I'd agree with what Drewid says

#52 Breunor

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 07:21 AM

If you all would like to see where text to speech is at, check out Ananova. There is no recording here, just text to speech conversion. This was also what I had in mind for end of the month reports, she reads the info and highlights that are fed to her, and you see little graphics off to the side like they have in a typical newscast.

They use a method of matching the speech with facial animation so it doesn't looked like a dubbed movie. I think we could do something similar using Festival (speech engine) and Sable (XML speech markup). The same tech could be applied to radio response in the battlescape. Certain events feed it the appropriate text, and it's read. You can adjust variables like gender, stress, etc. This would require lots of development to tie it into the code of the game, so the familiar mantra, "Probably version 1+", is uttered once again...

#53 Puasonen

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:22 AM

And few dozen other programs that i have do the same. Aliens should be called with aliens, not floaters of snakemans. It would save a lot of trouble. Names would be impossible to do if we dont use some kind of software. Maybe they could have some numbers also to id them.

Names impossible?
http://www.mikropuhe...f=1076434352723

It's finnish so only Raven will get something out of it.
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#54 red knight

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:56 AM

And few dozen other programs that i have do the same. Aliens should be called with aliens, not floaters of snakemans. It would save a lot of trouble. Names would be impossible to do if we dont use some kind of software. Maybe they could have some numbers also to id them.

Names impossible?
http://www.mikropuhe...f=1076434352723

It's finnish so only Raven will get something out of it.

Almost nothing is imposible to do (at least we cannot solve the classic Halting Problem of a Turing Machine YET)... Some crazy nut may be working on that right now...

All depends at how much resources and time to code a particular algorithm, how much quality you expect on the sample, and stuff like that... There are easy algorithms like mix the name of the alien between two streams of sound... (not so good quality)... recording the same phrase with all posible alien names (more work, disk space and memory).... It is always a tradeoff.

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#55 Raven Squad

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 02:16 PM

I like to point out where i mention software, look carefully :) . I had one of those programs as early as late 80s with my Commodore 64 (cant remenber programs name just now). So i know that they exist. Imo they sound too unnatural.
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#56 Breunor

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:03 PM

If only this technology could be included in an opensource application...

It's not perfect, but not too bad either. They have a demo that can be downloaded of Sayso, it's only for French right now. Other languages coming soon, they said. I agree with Raven Squad's opinion that the _freely available_ versions out there (that I've found so far) are not very good, but if an opensource version of this voice were available, I think we'd have a winner. SAPI4 compliant agents match mouth movements to phenomes, so that's how Ananova works for the most part. I expect we could create our own agent eventually, but there's plenty out there to use already as a placeholder. I haven't seen opensource versions yet, so there's more searching to come.

#57 Breunor

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 10:12 PM

And here's final proof that text to speech can sound awesome. Both these links play wav files created by AT&T's TTS(text to speech) engine. Downside? It costs money, and I can garauntee you it's not for opensource use. Of course, if the system were designed to use any voice engine, a person could then get this one to play with their version of the game...

Male Voice

Female Voice

#58 Breunor

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 10:18 PM

One more downside to using that engine.... it takes up 500MB of HDD space to store the audio components used.... just a little tidbit I remembered. No wonder it sounds so good, eh? They stored all the phonemes they needed and paste them together for speech I guess.

#59 Puasonen

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:22 AM

And here's final proof that text to speech can sound awesome. Both these links play wav files created by AT&T's TTS(text to speech) engine. Downside? It costs money, and I can garauntee you it's not for opensource use. Of course, if the system were designed to use any voice engine, a person could then get this one to play with their version of the game...

Male Voice

Female Voice

OH MY GOD!! I had a flashback from that male voice link! Who has played Warcraft 2 long long time ago? That male voice sounds JUST like a footmans voice in warcraft2. If I would just heard that voice talking somewhere, I would have guessed that is the voiceactor from wc2!! Please someone agree! :whatwhat:
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#60 Breunor

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 06:56 AM

"Your sound card is working perfectly!" is a phrase I remember from warcraft, I believe it was the foot soldier voice. I also loved the voice responses from repeatedly clicking on them. Exploding sheep was also funny. Something we could consider is using a utility like the one used for the above recordings, for the radio chatter responses in game. Then we would have consistent speech, etc. Just record them as mp3, or whatever format.

#61 Raven Squad

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 12:17 PM

They sound great, but can u make them sound afraid, happy and so on. 500 mb extra is little too much for game that is supposed to be downloaded. Recording speech to oggs would be better idea.
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#62 Breunor

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:07 PM

Most of the engines have an option to change the tone used, and the sable markup language includes tags for emphasis, so I think stress could be simulated in there. The ATT speech engine used for those voices can be bought for a reasonable amount ($30?), but since it's proprietary software we could never include it as part of the game. At best, we could include an opensource version (which would sound mechanical), and then users could install the better speech version on their own as the quality improves. I doubt anyone would want the trouble of coding it though when we can just record our own voices easily enough. I've got a decent range of voices that my friends always bug me to do, I'm sure with all of us combined we could create a good list of audio feedback. Perhaps those who can, record some short items in mp3 format, using the dialog suggestions above, and we can compile them all in one spot, then people can choose which ones they want to use in the game. If soldiers are tagged for gender and continent of origin, then an audio file could be created for each combination and scenario. Lots of sounds...

#63 Puasonen

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 03:32 AM

Hey, isn't it also possible in warcraft to record ON the old voices and have them talk your own things instead? I remember that in carmageddon there was a program somewhere in the internet where you could replace the old sound files with your own newones. It was soooo fun. Well the thing is, even if they don't get them to talk something exactly related to the situation, you could easily make them say something.. For example when you click on a soldier, he could answer "sir" or "yes" or something.. maybe in the future it would be possible to make a program wich replaces those with your own soundfiles if you wan't.
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#64 Breunor

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 08:13 AM

Yeah, Warcraft editor let you adjust the sounds, all my workers farted when they cut wood, funny for about 5 minutes, then you appreciate how subtle the default sounds are... :D

#65 hippyjon

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Posted 16 June 2003 - 08:57 PM

ok, the last post was 7 months ago but anyway...

i always hate unit responce and theres not much point to it in a turn based stratergy.

itd be cool if you dudes said something when they get a kill on a reaction shot though
...or something

#66 mamutas

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 08:11 PM

Yes, there will be unit responses.
There is a thread somewhere about it. It is called Radio Chatter.
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#67 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:17 PM

^_^ Well, I can't find that topic, so I guess I'll drag this one out of the gutter! I just thought it'd be pretty cool to add in radio commands/acknowledgments, with the option to turn them off. Although I think that Jon had a good idea about the reaction shot thing. I'm not sure if any of the guys running this have any ideas, but feel free to e-mail me with any you have! I'm pretty good at coming up with scripts, and I'm definitely good at voice acting! I can also edit sounds a little to make it sound like it's being done over the radio.

Ooh! 'nother idea! Perhaps, to add a level of customization or randomness, you could create different voice sets, and the player can choose what voice set to use for whom. That way it isn't the same thing over and over!

#68 hippyjon

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:02 PM

woh! ive just realised the scale of this, with the multi ethinc thing we're doing with the graphics we could do with a similar thing here. soldiers recruted from differnt areas speak different languages. or at least have an accent.
itd be no good having a bunch of chinese soldiers running round speaking english with american accents.

maybe we'd have to just rip some samples from films...
...or something

#69 red knight

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:10 PM

or get some Xenocide Recruits from China....

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#70 hippyjon

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:24 PM

well yeh ^_^ but theres bound to be some place we dont have a member from.

thinking about it different accents would make more sence than different languages. we're still looking at like 30-50 voice sets though :wacko:

at least theres alot of peeps to help :)

edit...
a possible solution: amature dramatics societies
...or something

#71 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 10:00 PM

Well, I know of at least 2 groups who would be willing to help! The thing is, one of 'em would need a finished script.

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 10:21 PM

Well, if it were seperated into continents, then prehaps sub divisions, it could work. Lot less work to do as well.

#73 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 10:38 PM

Unless maybe we can have a standardized set of responses, and have an accent/cultural quirk in each set.

At the same time, how serious would you want it to be? Would you want the typical "Reporting!" thing, or a sort of hushed "I copy..." kinda thing?

#74 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 10:41 PM

Well, personally I would like them to be minimalistic and serious, Interceptor kind of made the mistake of having jokey confirmation transmissions from what I have read and we don't want to spoil the mood.

Is it possible to modify one or two voices with sound tools to make them sound like different accents? Or am I just dreaming? :)

#75 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 10:50 PM

Nah. But I have plenty of friends of all sorts of nationalities who would be willing to help!

And I agree. Minimalistic would be best. Then again, and this is thinking way too far ahead, the soldiers do have a sort of panic level, right? What if, as that level increases, they lose the cool in their voice. So they go from "Moving out." to "Ok, I'm going!" to "God, don't let them get me!" or something like that.


Edit: And I can have some fun with the berserk sounds. :cussing:

Edited by Rhyos Beoulve, 22 September 2003 - 10:50 PM.


#76 fux0r666

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 11:54 PM

Some of the best mood acting in a game I've played was in the orginal aliens vs. predator game. There wasn't much said but when the humans panicked or went berzerk it was incredible. Maybe the bulk of the sounds that humans make could be the innocent bystanders and abandoned houses with the tv's left on.

I think a really great thing would be if someone could get their hands on a copy of the old War of the Worlds radio show that Orson Wells on Hallowe'en in 1938. You could have snippets of that playing on a radio in the background. If not the original maybe a script read by a voice actor.

I don't know the current copywrite status. It's over 50 years old. 50 years is the copywrite staledate, I think. Good idea, I think.. maybe not possible.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#77 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 08:33 AM

If it's just snippets, then it should be ok. And if we change them up a bit, it can be considered a parody, which is ok even when the copyright is effective. I'm pretty good at moods, myself, so I can definitely provide something.

#78 Breunor

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 09:42 AM

I agree that a quieter, somewhat nervous voice would work well, it would need to coincide with the background music IMO. If the music is a haunting, creepy, about-to-get-you sound, you'd want the soldiers to reinforce that. Sort of like they can hear the music, and know something nasty's about to happen...

#79 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 10:25 AM

Because I know that whenever I'm about to go into a room I shouldn't, I hear "dundun dundun dundun DUNDUN DUNDUN DUNDUN" and other such ominous music.... I wonder why that only happens when I head for the bathroom... *don't go in there!*


All randomness aside, though, should we get a demo set of responses made up? I can record them to give you a sample of what they would sound like. *although clarification/quality adjustments would have to be made by the main sound guy*

#80 fux0r666

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 01:39 PM

The war of the worlds radio show was made up of music contemporary to the '30's interspersed by news flashes in increasing regularity. I was thinking there could be some music and then you could hear a static ridden news flash about martian war machines levelling the town of Grover's Mill.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#81 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 05:07 PM

Although, what about terror missions? I'm sure if aliens were terrorizing a major metropolitan area, it would be all over evey channel *except maybe Cartoon Network. =b* And if you happened to be by a TV IN the terrorized city, wouldn't you be getting news coverage or something? War of the Worlds might be a good easter egg for an abduction mission, or a crashed ship, but not everywhere.

#82 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 05:36 PM

Of cause, the same would be everywhere. You need to have a variety of ambient sounds coming from houses.

How would this sound be triggered I wonder? Would it be that as you move the screen nearer the house that the sounds become louder?

#83 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 06:06 PM

That would make sense. As you get within say 6 squares of a window nearby, you start faintly hearing it, and as you get closer, it gets louder. In fact, it could be quite the distraction from all the other ambient noise. If you're right by a TV, and you go to the next turn, and an alien is moving nearby, then you'd have a hard time hearing it. Then again, if you turn it off, they might notice the sound difference, and come after you!

#84 fux0r666

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 09:58 PM

I don't think that unless the aliens were attacking a metropolitan area that the media would necessarily know about it until after the fact. The terror missions aren't that long... and besides, if the media knew about it the military would certainly know about it... and if civilian lives were in the balance I think that they would come galloping to the rescue too.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#85 Breunor

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 09:10 AM

I can see breaking news coverage at a terror site, after all you're told about it somehow, and then it could be 10-12 hours before you can get to the site, so the public would know by then. I suggest having the ambient sounds active only when your active soldier is near one, but I could see tying it to the camera as well.

There has been thorough discussion of possible actions/events and responses in the radio chatter thread, you cna find what you're looking for there and record samples to post. The project's using the ogg(?) format rather than mp3, so save them that way and zip them up I guess. Everybody can submit these, and several male and female versions could be used. We'd want to add a little static maybe, or something to make it sound like you're hearing it from a remote command post rather than being right there.

BTW, the original radio chatter thread is here, on page 2 of the lab forum. If people would prefer, the topics can be merged.

#86 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 12:26 PM

Ah. I had been looking for that Radio Chatter thread. If someone writes up a quick set of responses, I can give you a slight, uncleaned demo. *and if anyone wants to listen to my other works, then drop me a PM or an e-mail*

#87 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 12:52 PM

I think finding some amateurs would end up being a good idea. I know of quite a few amateur communities that have better acting skills than most professionals. *myself included!* All we would need is a set of responses written up, and I could get some actors to record them. A lot of professionals tend to underact, so "Oh my God! 2 is down!" sounds more like something that's commonplace as opposed to a tragedy. Don't count amateurs out! A lot of us know what we're doing! TTS things tend to really irk me. You just can't convey emotion with them. One of the reasons why I never played Operation Flashpoint is because they used TTS. It got SO annoying to hear Trooper Stephen Hawking saying "Damn. 2. Is down."

#88 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:14 PM

Well, How many amatures could we count on to provide good voices? We need quite a few voices.

Is it possible to edit accents into sounds? Like make a guy sound german or something? If it is, then we won't need as many voice actors from different countries.

Lastly, Perhaps we could make the necesary voice software an optional download? Like a downloadable expansion pack? That way, those 56kers can still enjoy the game, but if they want to hear the voices, they can download the voice addon?
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#89 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:37 PM

"Your sound card is working perfectly!" is a phrase I remember from warcraft, I believe it was the foot soldier voice. I also loved the voice responses from repeatedly clicking on them. Exploding sheep was also funny. Something we could consider is using a utility like the one used for the above recordings, for the radio chatter responses in game. Then we would have consistent speech, etc. Just record them as mp3, or whatever format.

Yeah, they had that in Starcraft as well, I'd always do it just to see what they say:

"Stop it"
"I'm warning you"
"Don't push it"
"STOP IT NOW"

Really made me laugh. Don't think we could have a simular thing here tho because of the turn based nature. What sounds would we need? I think the best approach is to have them say something like "Yes, sir" and stuff for moving and for shooting something like "engaging target". Little mood music in there as well and it could sound tense.

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:39 PM

Prehaps just a test would be fine, mainly to hear the quality sounds which your system is capable of producing. I know it needs to be quite good quality sound.

#91 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:45 PM

I still have some audio settings to tweak, but I can give you a "dirty" sample, with preliminary radio sound editing. Just gimme something to say!

#92 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:47 PM

Erm, try reading the headline of a newspaper or something like that in a news reporter stylee.

#93 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:48 PM

Well, if you want a cheesy infomercial demo, look on Newgrounds.com and search for Aloe Vera. I'm the infomercial announcer. But that was born out of randomness and stupidity. If it were for a game, it'd be much better.

#94 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:51 PM

Well, How many amatures could we count on to provide good voices? We need quite a few voices.

Is it possible to edit accents into sounds? Like make a guy sound german or something? If it is, then we won't need as many voice actors from different countries.

Unfortunately, there's no way I know of to edit in an accent. But I DO know people from other countries who can either speak with the actual accent, or can duplicate it. Unless you're charging for the game, there shouldn't be a problem. There's one group I'm a part of, and they can get the entire group to work on the lines. And they're all good quality!

#95 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:57 PM

How big is this group? And would they be willing to volunteer for us?
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#96 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:58 PM

They're about 10 regulars, mainly male, with about another 10 male/female on call. *you've also got me!* All they need is a finished script.

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 05:00 PM

:LOL:

Made me laugh quite a bit, I think that is about right for the sound quality.

#98 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 05:03 PM

The lines will be better and more serious though? Right, we do want a game that is primarily dark with only little bits of humor intersperced between right?
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#99 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 05:03 PM

Cool. This script could be pretty long u know, I mean alien voices can be done by fiddling with settings but we will probably need quite a few responses, plus different countries ( can any of them put on any decent accents? That would be useful as well ). I guess we could start doing a little script and see how it goes, probably a job for some peeps in CTD tho I'd imagine others would like to get involved in that also.

#100 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 05:06 PM

I know of 2 groups, and you could also hold auditions, as well as the people here. A big script should be no problem. BTW, the group I was mentioning earlier is called SAVAGE, and you can reach them at http://www.samods.com. Magic is the guy in charge.


And on another note, what's this CTD thing I've heard so much about?