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#1 warhamster

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:03 PM

I don't know how feasible this is but I'd like to see soldiers have specialties. It's just that when all your soldiers have hit their maximum 81 TU's and 120 Accuracy, they begin to look and smell alike. I was thinking giving soldiers specialties that give them bonuses.

example... agent Warhamster... specialty: heavy weapons... either he gets additional accuracy bonus.. or maybe a discount on consumed TU's when using such a weapon.

I know this entails a lot more thought and discussion, but it seems like a cool diablo-esque idea.

comments?

#2 revenant4

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 03:22 AM

Just a couple of things....Do you mean these Specials should be implemented when the soldier gets to a high level or maxed...this to me would be kind of pointless in the first place because they are already like super soldiers when they are at that point, why make them any stronger?...now if you mean you have to choose these special abilities from the get go then that's a good idea and would put a lot of strategy to the battlescape...Lastly remember what you do to humans needs to be thought about for the aliens side...which wouldn't be hard because they could just have the same classes (?)...just need to make sure races are balanced...

#3 miceless

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 03:35 AM

The best way to do would be to make them learn from experience. e.g. if a certain soldier spends ages carrying a rocket launcher then he becomes specialised with it.

Dont know how difficult it would be to implement, but it would be better that way. Being able to just select it yourself would be too easy I think.

Would also have to be tested and thought about more, as you say.
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#4 j'ordos

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 05:19 AM

Maybe not every soldier has a specialty, but sometimes, when you recruit some new soldiers, one could show up with a specialty (possible examples: heavy weapons: bonus when using large, heavy weapons like cannons; stealth: bonus for sneaking, if implemented; sniping: bonus for aimed shots; ambidextrous: bonus when wielding two pistols; medic: bonus for using medikit,...)

This would obviously work best with a recruitment pool like in Apoc though.

Edited by j'ordos, 14 July 2003 - 05:20 AM.

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#5 warhamster

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 07:48 PM

Well, I haven't really thought about the idea that deeply, but i like jordos' idea. Specialized soldiers will occasionally appear. and some specialties will be rarer (or is the proper term more rare) than others. Flavor I guess.

#6 miceless

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 01:27 AM

Yeah, its a nice idea but we already have that kind of thing with the stats. I mean someone with high accuracy is already a sortof specialist sniper. Someone with high TUs is already a specialist scout. Adding actual specialties just adds another variable that is similar to the stats already.

I think the best way to do it, if we were going to, would be to make them really rare, but really useful. It would have to be balanced but it would add some spice.
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#7 Simaldeff

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 03:55 AM

Why not something like that :
when u hire him/her the private got a slight talent in something that is determined from his stats (STR = Heavy weapon ACC = Sniper TU = Scout Speed = 2hand Fight STR+AGI = HTH fight etc ... Hand to hand fight was something i would like to see ... with stunning rod or knife)

And then u train him with trainning course that u select (like Heavy Weapon, and so on)

the thing is that the soldier only have stats and then it's the computer that determine his/her speciality and if u want u can train his stat for some use

a training room for base facilities would usefull ...

ok bye

#8 Breunor

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 07:01 AM

A previous discussion thread talked about specialists using this method: rather than having a fixed accuracy for all weapons, you have weapon classes-pistol, rifle, heavy, and thrown. Your accuracy only went up in the class of weapon you used. If you used a rifle all the time, its accuracy would increase like the original, but the others would not. When you changed weapon tech levels (normal-laser-plasma), there would be a 5-10% drop in accuracy with the new tech, and then it would continue up as usual. You would not lose accuracy from lack of use. If you went back to an earlier style, your accuracy would be what it was before, adjusting for training in higher tech. So if you used a normal rifle a few times, then went to laser rifle for a hundred battles, going back to normal rifle you'd have whichever accuracy was higher. That means that your accuracy would never be less with an older tech than it is with a newer one.

This idea was first presented as a way to make specialists in the game, but it also allows for more difficulty as well. Lots of ideas give the humans benefits, this is one of the few that would balance it the other way. I don't suggest breaking it down to individual weapons, although that sort of happens when you consider the weapon class/weapon tech matrix this system creates. You end up with 12 total accuracies, which allows for plenty of specialization.

#9 Fred the Goat

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 01:47 PM

Sounds cool. Stun bombs are plasma I presume? What about an artillery/support class, including rockets, stun bombs, footballs, and maybe encompassing the grenade class? It seems like the skill to use a football launcher is closer to the skill to use grenades than the skill to use a heavy plasma. Hmm...no lasers in that class, or the aforementioned grenade class. Ah well.

#10 miceless

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:26 AM

That means you have a load of numbers to keep track of for each soldier. It may not be a problem, but its worth bearing in mind. I like the idea though, it makes sense.
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#11 dragon0085

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 07:20 PM

Brenour, that's a ok idea except think about this, it would be such a b#### to remember "Ok is frank a rifle guy or a pistol guy" Also is it sligtly unrealistic to all these ideas, cause think, if you only pratice with a rifle are you telling me you are no better then a child with a pistol? Unlikely.

#12 GreatGold

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:00 PM

Hey -

I sort of find that the operatives assigned to you DO have a specialty right off the bat. For instance, if I get a guy with a strength rating of the charts (for a rookie) then he automatically becomes my Heavy Weapons Operative. Sometimes I get a operative with very high Rifel Accuracy, and sure enough he becomes my Sniper Operative.

Then, as I use them more for that purpose, their stats increase in that area. Same as if they had started with that speciality.

I think giving certain operatives an even greater start in some direction would be unfair and unbalancing. And even annoying, if you cant hand-pick what you want to get. I mean, imagine randomly getting 10 Heavy Weapon Operatives in a row - excellent for strength, but shuckeroonies out of luck for speed and accuracy.

In anycase, I really feel that the random stats you get already dicatate what your soldiers begin as and become. And if you have three or four squads of supersoldiers, then its time to move up a level!

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#13 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:18 AM

I sort of find that the operatives assigned to you DO have a specialty right off the bat.  For instance, if I get a guy with a strength rating of the charts (for a rookie) then he automatically becomes my Heavy Weapons Operative.  Sometimes I get a operative with very high Rifel Accuracy, and sure enough he becomes my Sniper Operative.

Then, as I use them more for that purpose, their stats increase in that area.  Same as if they had started with that speciality.

I think giving certain operatives an even greater start in some direction would be unfair and unbalancing.  And even annoying, if you cant hand-pick what you want to get.  I mean, imagine randomly getting 10 Heavy Weapon Operatives in a row - excellent for strength, but shuckeroonies out of luck for speed and accuracy.

In anycase, I really feel that the random stats you get already dicatate what your soldiers begin as and become.  And if you have three or four squads of supersoldiers, then its time to move up a level!

Glad to see you agree with me GG...

Yeah, its a nice idea but we already have that kind of thing with the stats. I mean someone with high accuracy is already a sortof specialist sniper. Someone with high TUs is already a specialist scout. Adding actual specialties just adds another variable that is similar to the stats already.

I think the best way to do it, if we were going to, would be to make them really rare, but really useful. It would have to be balanced but it would add some spice.


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#14 Breunor

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 06:06 AM

Brenour, that's a ok idea except think about this, it would be such a b#### to remember "Ok is frank a rifle guy or a pistol guy" Also is it sligtly unrealistic to all these ideas, cause think, if you only pratice with a rifle are you telling me you are no better then a child with a pistol?  Unlikely.

Actually each soldier starts off as an elite soldier in respect to their abilities, so they would be a bit better than the civs... But if you practice and fight with a heavy cannon, why would you also become even better at firing your pistol? You would be just as good as when you began (elite soldier), but those who used the pistol would be even better. And I understand that the soldier's aren't all that accurate as it is, but you have to have that balance when starting the game...

I had forgot to mention grenades and all that, in addition to pistol, rifle, and heavy gun (which would perhaps include blaster, stun launcher, etc), you'd have thrown items. This includes grenades and electro flares, and anything else you toss like prox grenades. This accuracy will typically increase anyway as most soldiers get practice with it each mission, and throwing into a general spot is easier to learn IMO than firing a weapon accurately.

To keep track, you'd either split out each accuracy in the soldier screen, or to keep it neat you'd show the most accurate class along with which class it is. Perhaps a mouseover popup text could tell you the accuracy of each class.

#15 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 06:52 AM

Ave a look at the UFO Aftermath stat screens, I think they have a simular system that seems to work OK, if a little basic.