Jump to content


Photo

Actual Training


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Blood Angel

Blood Angel

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 513 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 11:44 AM

I was just reading a post about accuracy improving in combat training but not in actual combat. So then it hit me: Why not have a tactical simulation mode?

It would work like this. Basically, troopers not on active service (read: Not assigned to a craft) are in training. Their skills potentially increase gradually as they train (have lessons in how bombs work, spend time at the firing range, etc.) At the end of the month, they have a practice battle in the simulator to show what they have learned. This would be just like any other mission, a landed UFO cleanse, a damaged UFO retrieval, or a terror site. If they win, then they get the standard experience for that battle in addition to whatever they have earned previously.

Therefore, if for instance soldier A had been on training since the start of the month, by the time the practice battle starts he has earned +50 accuracy potentially. He doesn't get this in the battle, but if he wins the battle, he gets +50 accuracy he would get for winning the battle and +50 for the training.

#2 Blehm 98

Blehm 98

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,626 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 02:47 PM

shooting at targets can only do so much though. By the time the soldiers get to even be looked at for recruiting, they should be the creamiest of the cream of the crop. So shooting at targets should be like shooting the broad edge of a barn for them
Top Secret Xenocide Status report

BF2 Hackers =5SF= have busted
]sD[ Engageo <-- couldn't get him banned though, no screenshot of him ingame
]sD[Nomisser
an AK guy
The anti-logarithm of the logarithm of X plus the logarithm of Y equals X times Y, or 10^(logX + logY) = XY
Posted Image
I hate spider solitaire...

#3 Blood Angel

Blood Angel

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 513 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:20 PM

No, you miss my point. They're not just shooting at concentric circles in the month-end mission. They're shooting at full holographically-rendered fake aliens. They can only fire on aliens they have researched the corpses of, and once you research their live counterparts the simulations become harder, more like the real thing. Before you get a corpse you'll be against other things, maybe against each other.

#4 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:28 PM

I don't see the point, it's all gain without any risk, if I'm understanding it correctly.

#5 Blehm 98

Blehm 98

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,626 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:32 PM

Soldiers would also have to fully able to recieve any injuries one would normally get in combat (not getting shot but more basic injries, a broken bone, sprained bone, pulled muscle or tendon, or more severe injuries)

that sounds like a good idea, "SuperSoldeir 1337 has broken his leg and torn his achilles tendon and will be unable to participate in combat or training for six months"
Top Secret Xenocide Status report

BF2 Hackers =5SF= have busted
]sD[ Engageo <-- couldn't get him banned though, no screenshot of him ingame
]sD[Nomisser
an AK guy
The anti-logarithm of the logarithm of X plus the logarithm of Y equals X times Y, or 10^(logX + logY) = XY
Posted Image
I hate spider solitaire...

#6 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:37 PM

Injured in simulated combat? oh yeah, that sounds realistic.

#7 Blehm 98

Blehm 98

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,626 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:58 PM

If its simulated enough to seem realistic, you will be running, and when you run and sprint, you pull muscles and tendons, and you can fall

but also in real combat that could be possible as well
Top Secret Xenocide Status report

BF2 Hackers =5SF= have busted
]sD[ Engageo <-- couldn't get him banned though, no screenshot of him ingame
]sD[Nomisser
an AK guy
The anti-logarithm of the logarithm of X plus the logarithm of Y equals X times Y, or 10^(logX + logY) = XY
Posted Image
I hate spider solitaire...

#8 GARAK

GARAK

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 06:09 PM

Why not fight simulated aliens in some type of artificial world. Some kind of computer would hook up to their brain, possibly through the back of the soldier's head. The soldiers, or "xcorp AGENTS" could fight the simulaliens and feel pain and even death, but it wouldn't be real. We could call it "the network" or something....

#9 sir_schwick

sir_schwick

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 481 posts

Posted 10 November 2005 - 06:51 PM

I'm not sure if simulators should increase any stats, but I certainly think you should be able to run simulations. First, it would allow those that only had time for a quick battle rather than a few hours of playing. Think of it as a quick action mode, or as a way to test new tactics or set up fantastic battles. Here are the details:

- X-CORPS Agents
Any X-CORPS Agents that has ever been aprt of X-CORPS may be put in the simulator. It is a live field simulation, so non-live actors are played by holo-graphic projections on a manueverable robot chassis. Its a top secret military org so these things should exist.

- Aliens
Of course you can only simulate aliens you have had contact with. The degree of accuracy of tactics, abilities, weapons, etc, are based off of research and sighting.

- Weapons
Using high-tech projectile tracking and sensor suits, all fire and explosions are simulated. Of course if you have only seen alien weapons or barely researched them, use of that data will be inaccurate.

- Maps
It costs 10k to build a course because 10k is not much. A course can be an existing map, or one you make yourself. Of course this means that a good map making tool should exist.

-Scenarios
You could set up a variety of scenarios and such, especially since ammunition and deaths are not a concern.

-Optional
You can do a mock battle with recruits to see who 'feels right' before you hire.

#10 Blood Angel

Blood Angel

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 513 posts

Posted 11 November 2005 - 10:42 AM

I don't see the point, it's all gain without any risk, if I'm understanding it correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Perhaps there would be a downside. Maybe if you fail you just don't get any experience, meaning the past month will have been a waste. Or perhaps just the cost.

#11 dipstick

dipstick

    Colonel

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,011 posts

Posted 11 November 2005 - 05:45 PM

Whats wrong with gain without risk? Was used in Apoc, the training facility.

It makes sense to have some kind of training :)

Just make it like the Psi Lab if you are REALLY that concerned about that aspect, but I think just using a building space would impact enough - you make the price quite high, and the upkeep similarly so.


Edit: Finally made the 2.5K mark =b

Edited by dipstick, 11 November 2005 - 05:45 PM.

Posted Image

#12 Dover

Dover

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 194 posts

Posted 20 February 2006 - 04:47 PM

I agree with Dipstick. Make it like a psi-lab (only fits 10 recruits per month), and have it so it can only improve your soldiers up to a certain point (Maybe to the max value possible for a recruit with no combat, etc), after all, simulations are nice, but still no substitute for good 'of fashioned alien arse-kicking.

This will make some useless soldiers useful again! (We've all had them, the "Less-accurate-than-a-comatose-floater, No-ranking Butterfingers Joe Smith" soldiers)

Edited by Dover, 20 February 2006 - 04:49 PM.


#13 the_unfrgiven

the_unfrgiven

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 27 posts

Posted 13 June 2006 - 02:51 PM

Could we have some sort of specialist training???
sniper school... heavy weapons training.... hand gun experts....
train your soldiers in a specific weapons class, they get bonuses with that type of weapon. Instead of having just "firing accuracy", and "throwing accuracy", have them broken down into weapon classes. As you progress through the alien tech, classes would be added for new weapons.

#14 GARAK

GARAK

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:29 AM

Or maybe their character sheet or "resume" would indicate what weapons they prefer or would be good at using so you can know before you recruit someone. Perhaps some test result on how well they learn to have an idea of a potential recruit's aptitude for training.

#15 sovalopivia

sovalopivia

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:23 AM

how about making it more realistic, with all those months spent sitting around in the barracks those troops are going to get rusty, prevent their skill decrease by providing suficient training facilities and excercises. And of course it would take up valuable space in your base, and require maintenance.

Edited by sovalopivia, 17 September 2006 - 07:25 AM.


#16 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:38 AM

What about some kind of reverse leasing situation with your idle troops?

You train them up for a month at your base, then they can become mercs for hire to other behind the scenes agencies on additional one month stints afterwards. Each month you have a choice whether to accept the outside agency's price tag for use of the mercs for another month or recall them back to your base for your use if they made it. Each offer could be individual to where the soldier stands in skill level, so the better they are, you could hold out for more money.

While you paid their initial hiring cost and invested in a training module and maintenance for it, you have another way to make some of that money back. I'd keep their skill increases much more minimal in this arrangement though, somewhere on the order of 1-2 points per skill per month. Plus, the only soldiers you'd ever have to keep in ongoing training are the one's you'll directly use the most. Any free spots can be used up by the soldiers you'd want to sell their services to to another outside agency.

Maybe this could replace the MIB concepts - extending what we wanted for them for these guys instead. i.e. they get close to important people in power and can give you heads up intell on imminent alien activity, stashes of gear you can go after etc. Their actions reveal locations you can visit and do something about that can influence government funding one way or another, or some kind of defense modifier for that country just by having them on duty there.

#17 sovalopivia

sovalopivia

    Rookie

  • Forum Members
  • Pip
  • 0 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 01:04 PM

Maybe this could replace the MIB concepts - extending what we wanted for them for these guys instead. i.e. they get close to important people in power and can give you heads up intell on imminent alien activity, stashes of gear you can go after etc. Their actions reveal locations you can visit and do something about that can influence government funding one way or another, or some kind of defense modifier for that country just by having them on duty there.

Nice idea, so in game mechanics it would translate as you setting up Xcorp guy XYZ to go work for country XYZ, through one of the in base menus (note, i think if there are a few extra actions that apply only to your staff then I believe the hiring firing and those other options should come under a separate "personnel management" menu) which in turn gives you income and say a 5% chance every in game 5 mins to detect any UFO activity in borders of said country?

I still think the idea of skill loss through inactivity should somehow be implemented, and the use of the training facility would primarily be to prevent it, however if some rare opportunities arise then extra cash could be spent to put the facility to different uses, for example if new weapon techs have been recently discovered by your scientists a training program to become proficient in their use also becomes available at the training facility, or maybe making extra training a necessity before squads can be outfitted with new armours.

Edited by sovalopivia, 17 September 2006 - 01:09 PM.


#18 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:47 PM

so in game mechanics it would translate as you setting up Xcorp guy XYZ to go work for country XYZ, through one of the in base menus (note, i think if there are a few extra actions that apply only to your staff then I believe the hiring firing and those other options should come under a separate "personnel management" menu) which in turn gives you income and say a 5% chance every in game 5 mins to detect any UFO activity in borders of said country?


Mechanics wise, I think of it as an extension of the month change in Psi training. For all the kinds of training that would stick to that formula (not that they all should or shouldn't, just saying) they appear at the same time on a single screen with subcategories.

- Psi Training, manage hopefuls, and sack those who don't make the grade from here (a template system can make this part easier however).

- Combat Training - Your Soldiers/Merc/Infiltrators, assigns or deassigns soldiers with one month's training at a minimum to a country based on what the game recognized as countries with high alien/UFO activity. Next to each soldier's name is a price tag that gradually goes up based on skill standings which is one of the benchmarks for keeping them on duty - the other is if enemy activity has gone down. If it has you can choose to pull them out, let them stay or redeploy. Soldiers staying on the base are managed in here too for the facility's use. Those on assignment behind the scenes don't take up training space anymore which makes spaces open back up in the module for those that remain.

- Pilot training - If there's a pilot unit it can use this one to learn new craft that's researched. From piloting to craft weapons is handled here culminating in better precision targetting and general improvements to response times on the Geoscape. Maybe here too can be a reverse leasing situation - lease a pilot and a craft or keep the craft and just lease the pilot.

That's the best way I can think of it. A main training screen with your subcategories on it. Click on one to tweak it, ok it, and it brings you back out to the main training screen again to access the next subcategory. However I'm still unsure which forms of training should follow the old Psi training model of one month or not.

I still think the idea of skill loss through inactivity should somehow be implemented


Inactivity skill loss would be ok I suppose, perhaps the same 1-2 point per skill raise being on assignment behind the scenes would give - only in reverse. Inactivity in this case is strictly idle soldiers though, never on missions and not taking up space in the training facility.

Being hired out to governments to help you get intel still implies they're doing some activity on the side, hence the more minimal monthly skill gains. They only ever have to go through one month of training to be eligible to be hired back out. Once they are they no longer take up space in the module.

As for training specifics like weapons and so forth, I just presume everything that can be covered as research is being completed is taken into account by default. i.e. You'd never have to stipulate a subsubsub category of training.

Edited by Snakeman, 17 September 2006 - 10:50 PM.