Jump to content


Photo

What Value Do You Put On A Soldier's Life?


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Gryx

Gryx

    Squaddie

  • Forum Members
  • PipPip
  • 3 posts

Posted 20 September 2004 - 04:17 AM

Hmmm...

I was just wondering, in Xenocide when the end results of the battle are posted, will you be penalized more points for losing one of your soldiers compared to losing a HWP? If not, you really should be...

Looking through the original games and it just didn't seem right that X-com Command would place so little value on someone's life compared to the survival of a heap of plastic and metal! (-10 points for a dead troop and -20 for a destroyed HWP, I'm pretty sure it was)

"Sir! The aliens are mounting a counter-attack!"
"Right, get the HWP on board and then let's push off."
"But sir! We have a rookie still on the field! He'll be cut down in seconds! Why don't we get him on board first?"
"Because a rookie doesn't cost half a million bucks a piece!"

Not very humane, is it?

#2 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 20 September 2004 - 01:03 PM

yah you shouldent louse points for lost hwps only $$$

#3 The Master Maniac

The Master Maniac

    Captain

  • Xenocide Recruit
  • 442 posts

Posted 20 September 2004 - 01:48 PM

You're saying there's such a thing as a humane war? Why do you think a pilot is regarded as expendable compared to a plane? Because you can always get pilots cheaper than a multi-million dollar aircraft. Sucks, huh?

But, I do think that a soldier should be considered more valuable than a remote-controlled tank. I often used the tanks as moving shields for my troops until I found out they drained points for being wiped out. Wonderful.

#4 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 20 September 2004 - 05:15 PM

no tanks count as equipment if thay make you louse points it should be beacuse you run out of monney rebuilding them

solders cost points cause the funding nations dount want thare men dieing thay dount care about hwps, thay are bought via 3rd party countractor who likes the idea of you going thro 5 of them a mounth (thay get more monney)

#5 Robo Dojo 58

Robo Dojo 58

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,001 posts

Posted 20 September 2004 - 05:25 PM

Why, why would you want to destroy my precious HWPs? :crying: Have Billy take the shots, instead!

Every mad scientist would agree to that. :devillaugh:
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#6 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 20 September 2004 - 05:36 PM

but not an greedy weppons dealler

yess i can cut corners hear, hear, and hear
so what if it gets blown up thay whill just buy anouther one and ile get evean more monney :devillaugh:

#7 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 21 September 2004 - 06:07 AM

Teh point is, the cost of the HWP is penalty enough, so I'd say: negate their points loss when one is busted, or at least make it minimal, and even increase the penalties for losing a soldier :devillaugh:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#8 x0563511

x0563511

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 72 posts

Posted 21 September 2004 - 10:03 AM

Well, maybe if we lost money for losing troops. Insurance payments, compensation, ect payed out to the family...

#9 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:40 PM

yah for troops we louse money and points and for hwps we louse nouthing (excpt you have to buy a new one)

#10 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 21 September 2004 - 09:11 PM

I feel the same way, if we lose our own weapons in the field (through explosive *cough* mishaps *cough*) we don't lose points for that, we simply have to spend dough to replace them. It just extends to the HWP is all.

I'd rather it just cost money also, however perhaps losing one in battle could affect morale (if it doesn't already, I think that's just high ranking soldiers loss only though). To bring up another Aliens analogy, think of Hudson's cowardly attitude when their dropship crashed...

"We're in some freaky **** now man! What are we gonna do?"

Just seemed logical to me some troops could wig out at the loss of a tank, or even their own Skyranger ;)

#11 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 22 September 2004 - 05:41 AM

Yup, Imagine how the T-shirt troops are going to feel, knowing their armored tank got busted... THEY'RE NOT ARMORED!! :o

Hehe... Teh insurance cost... :idea: or perhaps... the price to hire new soldiers could go higher, depending on the loss rate (which we'd need to keep track of), and if countries are defecting, we could'nt get any soldiers from them... ^_^
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#12 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 22 September 2004 - 01:13 PM

think of Hudson's cowardly attitude when their dropship crashed...

"We're in some freaky **** now man!  What are we gonna do?"

Just seemed logical to me some troops could wig out at the loss of a tank, or even their own Skyranger ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


it wouldent have matterd except that droopship was thare only way of the planet

#13 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 22 September 2004 - 02:32 PM

Yea but Paladin raises a good argument. If all your guys have T-Shirts on, and they lose some valuable armor coverage, its easier to see the wig-out factor there :)

#14 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 22 September 2004 - 02:57 PM

but its not your troops morale that afects your score its how well (in the eyes of the COFN) you are doing

#15 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 05:34 AM

Oh, I was just thinking that unarmored soldiers should freak out (panick) when their tank is busted...
Then again, not every soldier should start with 100% morale IMHO, maybe 75-90% randomised... Not everyone is at their 100% best each and every friggin' day...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#16 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 23 September 2004 - 04:13 PM

how bout the first time thay sea a busted hwp thay freeak out and then after thay learn its main perpose is to scout ahead and get blasted insted of them it louses its efect

#17 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 27 September 2004 - 08:13 AM

Good point, it would make the first mission a heck more difficult, even for experienced players... :devillaugh:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#18 mikker

mikker

    Artwork Department

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 2,211 posts

Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:46 AM

Just make the soldiers loose morale a little when they explode. And make that quite a bit more for rokiees. They should overcome their fear when they learn that even if they can destroy tanks as if they were jelly, they themselves can be shot into jelly as well. By turning into squaddies.

If there is no tanks on the battlefield, their morale should go down to 50-65. That wouldn't affect everyone else.

Edited by mikker, 27 September 2004 - 10:47 AM.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#19 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 01 October 2004 - 11:37 AM

Hehe, good point, rookies should panick more easily, but still, those are professionnal soldiers... they would'nt freak out that much in normal battlefield conditions...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#20 Tuoppi

Tuoppi

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts

Posted 02 October 2004 - 05:58 AM

In the original soldier panicking was mostly related to MC-panic and deaths of fellows. IMO many other things should have significant effect on morale. Wounds, heavy incoming fire, darkness, being far from others and inexperience should have some noticeable effect. Bravery should also increase with experience, and in first few missions the effect be quite large.

Not many soldiers would take lightly if a fatally wounded, screaming comrade lies beside them, dark jungle blasting with plasma bolts. Those with 10 bravery should sometimes panick without first casualty.

#21 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 04 October 2004 - 07:05 AM

Yeah, but bravery should increase significantly after the soldier's first missions, and even for rookies after the first few months, as they should better know what to expect...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#22 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 04 October 2004 - 02:07 PM

actly i dount think solders hould louse morale from hwp destruction thay are battle hardend comandos and used to seaing things get blown up but thay sould freak out the first time thay see and alien

#23 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 05 October 2004 - 05:23 AM

The valu of a humen/soldier, is decreased allot in a war.

and the x-com soldiers are allerady comandos, manny of them are allredy veterans when they join x-com(thats how i se it). so they shuldt panic easely, just couse their new to the batlefild, it shuld be becouse of the freaky aliens. and as they get used to fighting aliens, they get used to it.

Edited by Qonfused, 05 October 2004 - 05:24 AM.

My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#24 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 05 October 2004 - 06:16 AM

hmmm, goot points... Here's to the both of you: :beer:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#25 Astral

Astral

    Squaddie

  • Forum Members
  • PipPip
  • 4 posts

Posted 05 October 2004 - 06:23 AM

The soldiers are volountries if i am not mestaken...

#26 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 05 October 2004 - 08:08 AM

The soldiers are volountries if i am not mestaken...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and... what is your point?
(although I agree that they should not panick THAT easily, panicking usually means they'd run back to the ship, and shoot everything on theyr way back...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#27 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 October 2004 - 01:09 PM

the solders are the best comandos form each country in the world
rookie means no experince fighting aliens

#28 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 05 October 2004 - 01:41 PM

You're right about that, but still, they should not increase so dramatically in firing accuracy, and be better from the start...

Tehn again, I guess it makes sense, since the aliens probably don't react the same way as humans do, so it might be a challenge to shoot them...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#29 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 October 2004 - 05:47 PM

and you are destracted cause you are looking at a grey bloob whith leags and arms

#30 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 06 October 2004 - 06:19 AM

Hmmm good point. We might not know Where to shoot the damn thing... although it's a good guess the head is the Sectoid's main target.. but they may have a thick skull...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#31 Guest_alex the greater_*

Guest_alex the greater_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 October 2004 - 12:50 PM

no i was thinking the solder would be to bissy just staring at the freky grey thing

#32 Tuoppi

Tuoppi

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts

Posted 06 October 2004 - 01:11 PM

A very nervous highly trained soldier would likely shoot anything surprising, moving or threathening into pieces by pure reaction before actually realizing what it was...

Training makes perfect though, and complex reactions can be trained. Ask any skeet-shooter.

#33 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 07 October 2004 - 07:06 AM

Yeah, dont you don't see that reflected in the shitty reactions the XCOM rookies have...
I'm thinking their starting morale, accuracy, strength and reactions should be 10-20 points higher, for the sake of realism...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#34 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 07 October 2004 - 08:54 AM

how about a sub stat to reaction, that deals with wrong rections.
elite soldiers who are putt in a situasion outside of their traning(as x-com rookies) might react worng by impulse(due to traning) a few times before they get the hang of it.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#35 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 07 October 2004 - 03:32 PM

... worth exploring the idea...
but I'm not that convinced, since "Friendly Fire" already takes care of that...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#36 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 08 October 2004 - 04:28 AM

...  worth exploring the idea...
but I'm not that convinced, since "Friendly Fire" already takes care of that...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


the "friendly fire" could be a effect of wrong impuls. yet it could explain other things to.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#37 Astral

Astral

    Squaddie

  • Forum Members
  • PipPip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 October 2004 - 03:09 AM

Since they r in not for money, there will be most anything, from a houswife to general, so the point is that there will be 1 in 5 lets say an commando gi-joe ^_^
with good skills... From the start there will not be to much suckers die for free :LOL: if u see my point!

#38 Paladin

Paladin

    Colonel

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,132 posts

Posted 12 October 2004 - 06:36 AM

Well, there should not be... a simple gunnery range willl weed out the useless ones easily, and strength test so we don't have useless wimps...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"