74 replies to this topic

[Moriarty]

I couldn't find a text for the rifle anywhere, so I just made one up. It's far from complete, I think, but it's a start

(the art department has a thread that says the Rifle and Pistol are to be based on standard weapons in use today. That's the reason for the last sentence in the second paragraph )

PISTOL
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/Rifle

The standard weapon for ground troops has been the rifle for a long time. In the XCorps, the soldier's best friend is the R7 semi-automatic.

The R7 is the result of a joint effort of the leading weapons manufacturers around the world. Secretly contacted by government officials of the XCorps funding countries, the manufacturers saw the need for a superior weapon over the fear of industry espionage in a situation where the future of humanity is at stake. Needless to say, they still made a profit, and XCorps had to agree not to use the blueprints, but buy every single R7 from them, in exchange for keeping the XCorps secret.

Combining the best technologies of seven prototype rifles from the companies' secret labs, the R7 is lightweight, powerful, accurate and built for extreme conditions. At the same time, it was designed to look almost like a standard rifle, so that XCorps missions might pass as unsuspicious military training missions.

The R7 uses a caseless ammunition system with high-kinetic propellant and steel-tipped lead bullets. The system is capable of accelerating the bullets to very high speeds due to an increased propellant mass while not leaving spent cartridges at the scene of battle. The steel-tipped bullets show an as-of-yet unsurpassed armor-piercing effect for a standard rifle, combined with a high stopping power due to the lead mantle.

The increased recoil associated with high muzzle velocities has been compensated with a self-powered magnetic buffering system as well as a self-adjusting shoulder piece which guarantees a large rifle-shoulder contact area, minimizing pressure.

XCorps employs the R7 as standard equipment. For special purposes such as large-scale destruction and heavily armored opponents, the use of explosives and large-caliber automatic weaponry, respectively, is recommended. For all other combat situations, the R7 has been unanimously voted "weapon of choice".

EDIT: now, how do you get the "CTD" in the title to stay as all-caps? it keeps changing back. grrrrr.

Edited by Moriarty, 07 March 2005 - 08:20 AM.

[Mad]

ok.. lets have a look

red for deleted parts
blue for comments and word suggestions (always for the italic written word directly ahead the " "-tagged comment)
orange for additions

I´hope its still readable after this..

PISTOL RIFLE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/Rifle

The standard weapon for ground troops has been the rifle for a long time. In the XCorps, the soldier's best friend is the R7 semi-automatic.
Maybe you want to try: The Standard weapon for military ground combat is and has always been some type of Rifle. In the XCorps the newly developed R7 semi-automatic Rifle is serving this purpose.

The R7 is the result of a joint effort of the leading weapons manufacturers around the world. [...]leading armorys ? [...] Secretly contacted by government officials of the XCorps funding countries, the manufacturers better: "this top 7 weapon developing combinations" (I´m not sure if this is the correct word for it... (@moriaty: according to LEO "ein Konzern") saw "considered" the need for a superior weapon over "higher than" the fear of industry espionage in a situation where the future of humanity is at stake. Needless to say, they still made a "enough" profit, and better: "since" XCorps had to agree not to use the blueprints, but to buy every single R7 from them, in exchange for keeping the XCorps secret.

Combining the best technologies of seven prototype rifles from the companies' secret labs, the R7 is lightweight, powerful, accurate and built for extreme conditions. At the same time, it was designed to look almost like a standard rifle, so that XCorps missions might pass as unsuspicious military training missions.

The R7 uses a caseless ammunition system with high-kinetic propellant and steel-tipped lead bullets. The system Maybe you would like to use "It is" thus avoiding the double "system" is capable of accelerating the bullets to very high speeds due to an increased propellant mass while not leaving spent cartridges at the scene of battle. The steel-tipped bullets show an as-of-yet unsurpassed armor-piercing effect for a standard rifle, combined with a high stopping power due to the lead mantle.

What do you think of this: "The R7 uses a caseless high-kinetic propellant system very similar to the [XCorps PISTOL] thus not only allowing an increased speed of the steel tipped lead bullets but also leaving no trace of a firefight at the battle scene. Due to the specially designed extra hard steel tip the bullets show an unsurpassed armor-piercing effect for this type of weapon, while the lead mantle is responsible for a very high stopping power."

The increased recoil associated with high muzzle velocities has been compensated with a self-powered magnetic buffering system as well as a self-adjusting shoulder piece which guarantees a large rifle-shoulder contact area, minimizing pressure.

self powered? how?

XCorps employs the R7 as standard equipment. For special purposes such as large-scale destruction and heavily armored opponents, the use of explosives and large-caliber automatic weaponry, respectively why?, is recommended. For all other combat situations, the R7 has been unanimously anonymously (if that is what you wanted to say? ) voted "weapon of choice".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

good first draft! keep it up!

Edited by Mad, 07 March 2005 - 12:57 PM.

[Penta]

Um...XM-8 can be fitted with a bayonet, actually.

See this from Armedforcesjournal.com, and this from HK Australia.

[Moriarty]

oops. sorry I thought that if there is no thread for it, and no text file linked in the asset list, then there is nothing. forgot to notice the color. thanks for clearing that up!

so, the rifle will be one that actually exists. hmmm. okay. (you have to deal with all the requests from wepon nerds who say that the weapon is not accurately programmed )

[Moriarty]

I would remove the part about the grenade launcher that didn't work. If I were to play the game for the first time, I would probably wonder why they didn't fix it... the rifle was first designed in the early 90s, and in 20xx they still haven't been able to find the bug in the grenade launcher module?

[Moriarty]

hmmm... just checked in the art department (Art - Standard Pistol and Rifle), and it appears that the pistol is pretty far progressed, but the rifle is mostly in early development.

perhaps we can mesh some of both texts and then tell the art department what we would like to see?

or do we need a poll first, to decide whether the rifle will be an existing one?

EDIT: okay, I just read the art guide, and it says there that human beginning tech should be weapons the normal military might be using 5 years from now. Now i'm just wondering: is that a general agreement, or did somebody single-handedly decide it? in fact, the CTD guide does not sound nearly as restrictive. or is that just my wishful thinking?

Edited by Moriarty, 09 March 2005 - 01:10 AM.

[Moriarty]

true. the basic weapons can not be uber-powerful. I agree. but if you look at the stuff that weapons manufacturers are developing, the weapons in 2012 could be very much advanced in comparison to the stuff used today - especially when there is a reason to build them, like an alien threat. but I won't argue anymore

[Astyanax]

Some minor spelling and grammar fixes (red for additions, orange for deletions), capitalized two instances of Alien, and added comments in blue.

I only noticed this as I was finishing my reading of the text, but the grenade launcher IS the HE unit that was removed from the OICW design. This should be MUCH more clearly stated.


XM-8 [LIGHT RIFLE]
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/[Light Rifle]

At Project Xenocide's inception in [???????], its newly-appointed infantry commanders immediately set about selecting personal weapons with which to equip their soldiers. Due to the multi-national nature of the organization, individual commanders naturally chose the weapons most familiar to them, leading to impaired combat flexibility and in-service squabbling. In reaction to this farcical situation, X-Corps' Supreme Command decided to commission a single standard-issue rifle with which all soldiers would be trained in the use of.

There were several competitors in the bid to become X-Corps’ standard-issue rifle. The principal candidate, and clear winner, the XM-8, had a peculiar history.

The first sentence is unusual; the competitors (people) aren't bidding to become rifles. Maybe: "There were several designs competing to become the X-Corps' standard-issue rifle." or "There were several competing designs vying to become the X-Corps' standard-issue rifle."

Commissioned in the early 1990s, the United States’ Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW) was intended to become the main lethal component of the Land Warrior programme. The OICW was to featured an advanced targeting system, and would fired standard Kinetic Energy (KE) 5.56mm rounds. Its most remarkable feature was the intelligent grenade launcher which comprised the top half of the weapon, and could be used to attack targets in cover. The weapon’s designers claimed it to be the most advanced rifle in existence.

There is a lot of passive tense in this paragraph ("was" is most predominant); suggest changing to a more active tense. There is some verb confusion in this paragraph- did the OICW actually exist or not? Later paragraphs suggest that it did, but it had flaws; I changed the sentences accordingly. The following paragraphs mention HE components; they probably should be mentioned here first: “The OICW featured an advanced targeting system, and fired either standard Kinetic Energy (KE) or High Explosive (HE) 5.56mm rounds.” Also, as mentioned in previous posts, I think the grenade launcher portion can be safely excised. Geez, I just noticed this… I think the grenade launcher is supposed to be the HE component mentioned later in the text… It should be specified more clearly, and if addressed, never mind my comments on the grenade/HE issue.

However, the technological nature of the OICW was its downfall. When first fielded to US Special Forces units in 2009, the OICW’s High Explosive (HE) component revealed itself prone to malfunction. Not only did the targeting system frequently fail to accurately gauge the range to the target, causing the HE rounds to detonate before or beyond the correct distance, but on two occasions HE rounds actually detonated inside the weapon, causing friendly casualties.

In the first sentence, maybe "highly technical nature" instead of "technological nature", since all guns use technology of some sort. Also, how did the HE component come into play? In the last paragraph, the OICW was supposedly designed for KE rounds...

Not only was the HE unit unstable, but its great weight and physical size made it unsuitable as a personal weapon, particularly in confined spaces such as trenches and vehicle cockpits. The OICW was recalled by the US military while they contemplated what to do next. In the meantime, most units reverted to the tried-and-tested M4 family of rifles.

I can't see the widespread distribution of the OICW; I would hope that the most egregious design flaws were picked up far earlier, or maybe paragraph 4 can be modified to say that "after prolonged field use" (or something similar, to indicate conditions that weren't adequately tested prior to the weapon's implementation) instead of “when first fielded”. Also, militaries tend to upgrade slowly. Therefore, I'd suggest in the last sentence, "In the meantime, affected units reverted to the tried-and tested M4 family of rifles."

The US military’s solution to the OICW dilemma was simple, yet effective. They simply removed what didn’t work, and kept what did. The HE component was discarded, and the targeting system was attached to the remaining KE component. The resulting weapon was designated the XM-8 Light Rifle.

The XM-8 is an extremely effective weapon, capable of firing 5.56mm rounds from a 30-round magazine at up to 400 rounds per minute. A thumb-activated selector switch allows the soldier to change firing modes from single shot, to three-round burst, to fully automatic. Despite these strengths, the rifle is only 88cm long, and weights only 3kg, making it extremely handy in tight situations. In these respects, the XM-8 is far superior to the M4 rifle.

The most sophisticated component of the weapon is its TMS sight system, which gives the soldier unparalleled accuracy in single shot mode. The sight system is a combined 4x optical scope (for daylight operations) and night vision/ thermal imaging sensor (for night operations /degraded visibility environments). The soldier can switch between sight modes by activating a button beneath the rifle’s selector switch. The XM-8’s sight system, though partially electronic in nature, has shown no adverse effect in proximity to Alien power systems.

What does TMS stand for? And has there been Alien power systems to test the XM-8’s sight systems against?

Though the original concept of the dual-purpose OICW has been lost, the XM-8, combined with conventional hand-thrown HE grenades, may yet prove to be even more useful in combat. All in all, the XM-8 represents the most effective rifle that the Earth can currently field against the Alien menace. Only time will tell how useful this weapon will be.

Needs a fluff. Maybe: "The XM-8, the 2027 (insert appropriate year) Weapon of the Year" -James Weapons, Vol. 2

Edited by Astyanax, 06 April 2005 - 12:09 PM.

[Moriarty]

hmmm... there has been no work on this for quite a while... and I am still kind of attached to my version... would it be extremely rude of me to try and fuse the two available texts, addressing some of the issues already mentioned in this thread, thus hijacking this thread again after wrongly creating it in the first place *blushes, ducks, runs away for cover* ?

[Moriarty]

Okay, here it is, an almost complete re-work of the text, combining what I consider the best of both previous texts

the purple colored part is causing me a headache... I really like it, and I think it is almost necessary to stay in there, but I don't know if the art department has any plans for including any kind of scope on the model, considering that it probably would be associated with a lot of extra detail, meaning polys, to be exact. I think I know a way around that, so I'll now go into the art department forum and sneak around looking at the rifle model discussion... I'll be back

RIFLE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/Rifle

The standard weapon for military ground combat is and has for a long time been some type of rifle. When it became obvious that a multi-national task force had to be created, one big problem quickly arose: Each nations' elite combat unit used their own favorite rifle, potentially leading to impaired combat flexibility and in-service squabbling. Thus, it was only partly due to the need for better weapons, but mainly due to the need for a weapon that everyone would agree on using, that XCorps decided to commission a brand new standard-issue rifle.

The [Light Rifle] is the result of a joint effort of leading arms manufacturers around the world. Secretly contacted by government officials of the XCorps funding countries, the top manufacturers considered the need for a superior weapon higher than the fear of industry espionage in a situation where the future of humanity is at stake. Needless to say, they still made enough profit, since XCorps had to agree to buy every single [Light Rifle] from them, instead of just using the blueprints to manufacture their own.

Combining the best technologies of several highly secret prototype rifles from the manufacturer's development labs, the [Light Rifle] is powerful, accurate and built for extreme conditions.A thumb-activated selector switch allows the soldier to change firing modes from single shot, to three-round burst, to fully automatic. Despite these strengths, the [Light Rifle] is shorter and lighter than most other rifles, making it extremely handy in tight situations.

The [Light Rifle] uses a caseless high-kinetic propellant system very similar to the [XCorps PISTOL]. The increased propellant mass compared to conventional ammunition is capable of accelerating the bullets to very high speeds, while at the same time leaving no spent cartridges at the scene of battle. Steel-tipped bullets are accountable for good armor-piercing capabilities, and a lead body ensures a high stopping power.
The increased recoil associated with high muzzle velocities is partly compensated via a pneumatic buffering system as well as a field-moldable shoulder piece made from memory plastics which guarantees a large rifle-shoulder contact area, minimizing recoil sores.
Another highly sophisticated component of the weapon is its sight system, which gives the soldier unparalleled accuracy in single shot mode. The system uses a combined 4x optical magnification scope and a built-in residual light amplification and thermal imaging processor (for night operations and degraded visibility environments).

XCorps employs the [Light Rifle] as standard equipment.
For special purposes, X-Corps tactical analysts recommend the use of specialized weapons, such as explosives for  large-scale destruction and large-caliber automatic weaponry for heavily armored opponents. For standard combat situations, however, the [Light Rifle] has been unanimously voted "weapon of choice".

Edited by Moriarty, 03 May 2005 - 09:50 AM.

[Astyanax]

Hm, about the scope... The AWD model here (post #13) has this "handle" on top that could be an integrated scope-equivalent?

Edit- the ideas in the text look pretty good, Moriarty. However, in paragraph 2, sentence 2, I don't understand why "industrial espionage" is mentioned...

Edited by Astyanax, 03 May 2005 - 10:04 AM.

[Moriarty]

oh yes, the one in post #13 would work, but I don't know if that is what is being worked on... actually I don't know if anyone is actually working on a rifle model at the moment...


the industrial espionage thing is just something that occured to me while I was originally thinking about the weapon... it went something like this:

-to get a really cool weapon you need to get the best ideas available
-the best ideas probably already exist in big manufacturers' secret labs
-so to get the best stuff you need them to work together
-they would probably work together when there's a threat to humanity
-but they are still companies, who exist for making money
-big companies are always paranoid about espionage, because it would mean having spent research money for nothing

...do you catch my drift?

[Astyanax]

Thanks for the explanation, Moriarty.

I don't think there's a newer version than the one in post #13; maybe you should go bug dipstick via PM to find the answer-- he's the AWD liason, after all.

I understand the "industrial espionage" part better now, but I don't think "industrial espionage" is quite the right term. The way I see it, by cooperating, the arms manufacturers are risking the theft of their ideas, not so much that they'll be spied upon (I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly). Perhaps "theft of intellectual properties" might be better?

Just brainstorming here: maybe the world governments approached various arms manufacturers with an attractive offer: an exclusive contract for a new rifle design for the newly formed X-Corps. Despite the Alien threat to all humanity, the fear of intellectual property theft made some companies reluctant to cooperate. In order to overcome their reluctance, the arms manufacturers were offered a large, undisclosed sum of money at the outset. In exchange, those under the contract would pool their resources to create a revolutionary rifle design, to which they would collectively retain the relevant patents and copyrights, but limit their sales exclusively to the X-Corps until the Alien menace was undeniably defeated.

(That's my take on the issue, but don't worry, I won't be offended if you don't like it. I just wanted to offer a more capitalistic take on the matter. )

Edited by Astyanax, 03 May 2005 - 12:48 PM.

[Astyanax]

Wha?? I didn't know "I" was a bad word.

Joking aside, I don't think there is a newer version of the rifle, Moriarty. In any case, PM dipstick so he can contact the authorities in the AWD. And I hope you don't mind my capitalistic take of your idea.

[Moriarty]

hey Asty, you know that is just about exactly what I meant... we should probably try to find something that is more easily understandable than my version - and a little bit shorter than yours

contact dipstick, right... I'll see what I can do

[dipstick]

*is summoned by psychic force*

well, this model is news to me, as it is not registered in my black book that said, I did use it in one of the films I made, so .... let me get back to you on this one.

[Moriarty]

ahh, psi powers...

so unless you find out something else, that probably means that the rifle model is entirely up for discussion, is it? okay... that opens up a whole lot of possibilities

[x0563511]

I don't know, I always get turned away from the word "bullet" or <insert projectile name>. It seems more "detached" and objective (like a research report would be) to say "round".

IE: "steel-tipped rounds"

[dipstick]

that probably means that the rifle model is entirely up for discussion, is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Fraid not. AWD has precedence - if there has not been a completed model - and I suspect there has - (it definitely passes the 'concept' stage) - then CTD will have to make something up THAT IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE at any time if AWD says so.

[Astyanax]

Argh, I just lost my post!

that probably means that the rifle model is entirely up for discussion, is it?

'Fraid not. AWD has precedence - if there has not been a completed model - and I suspect there has - (it definitely passes the 'concept' stage) - then CTD will have to make something up THAT IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE at any time if AWD says so.

Anyway... that dipstick's really a downer, isn't he? ::

The AWD model shouldn't affect too much of the CT, imho- just the descriptions and perhaps the sighting scope parts. It would appear that the remainder is subject to your "imagination playtime", Moriarty.

I'm inclined to agree with x0563511's comment about "rounds" and "bullets". If nothing else, maybe change one instance of "bullets" to "rounds" to reduce repetition?

Heh, I can be very verbose at times (all the time?). How's this for paragraph 2?

Various world governments approached arms manufacturers with a joint contract for a new rifle design for the newly formed X-Corps.  Although the fear of intellectual property theft generated some reluctance, the immediate Alien threat and the offer of an initial large, undisclosed sum of money overcame their reservations. In exchange, they would create a revolutionary rifle design to which they would collectively retain the relevant patents and copyrights, but limit their sales exclusively to the X-Corps for the duration of the Alien menace.  The [Light Rifle] is the result of their efforts.

Ehh, it's still kind of long...

[Moriarty]

updated.

I like your text, Astyanax. I modified it some to fit in the text flow.

RIFLE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/Rifle

The standard weapon for military ground combat is and has for a long time been some type of rifle. When it became obvious that a multi-national task force had to be created, one big problem quickly arose: Each nations' elite combat unit used their own favorite rifle, potentially leading to impaired combat flexibility and in-service squabbling. Thus, it was only partly due to the need for better weapons, but mainly due to the need for a weapon that everyone would agree on using, that XCorps decided to commission a brand new standard-issue rifle.

X-Corps command approached several arms manufacturers through government channels, offering a joint contract for designing and manufacturing of a new rifle. Although the fear of intellectual property theft generated some reluctance, the immediate Alien threat and the offer of an initial large, undisclosed sum of money overcame their reservations. In exchange, they would create a revolutionary rifle to which they would collectively retain the relevant patents and copyrights, but limit their sales exclusively to the X-Corps for the duration of the Alien menace.

The [Light Rifle] is the result of their efforts. It is powerful, accurate and built for extreme conditions. A thumb-activated selector switch allows the soldier to change firing modes from single shot, to three-round burst, to fully automatic. In addition to these strengths, the it is shorter and lighter than most other rifles, making it extremely handy in tight situations.

The [Light Rifle] uses a caseless high-kinetic propellant system very similar to the [XCorps PISTOL]. The increased propellant mass compared to conventional ammunition is capable of accelerating the bullets to very high speeds, while at the same time leaving no spent cartridges at the scene of battle. Steel-tipped bullets are accountable for good armor-piercing capabilities, and a lead body ensures a high stopping power.
The increased recoil associated with high muzzle velocities is partly compensated via a pneumatic buffering system as well as a field-moldable shoulder piece made from memory plastics which guarantees a large rifle-shoulder contact area, minimizing recoil sores.
Another highly sophisticated component of the weapon is its sight system, which gives the soldier unparalleled accuracy in single shot mode. The system uses a combined 4x optical magnification scope and a built-in residual light amplification and thermal imaging processor (for night operations and degraded visibility environments).

XCorps employs the [Light Rifle] as standard equipment.
For special purposes, X-Corps tactical analysts recommend the use of specialized weapons, such as explosives for  large-scale destruction and large-caliber automatic weaponry for heavily armored opponents. For standard combat situations, however, the [Light Rifle] has been unanimously voted "weapon of choice".

[Astyanax]

Nice, very nice, Moriarty.

Some comments:
1.) In paragraph 1, the "is and has for a long time been" phrase sounds pleasant when spoken, but looking at it isn't so pleasant. Simplifying to "has long been" might be better?

2.) Paragraph 1, sentence 2: I suggest changing the generic "big" to another adjective.

3.) I really like your adaptation of paragraph 2. The "X-Corps command approached several arms manufacturers through government channels" was an especially nice touch.

4.) In paragraph 4, I'm wondering about the "caseless ammo" part. I can't remember, but someone once mentioned somewhere (I can't remember) that the AWD models didn't look like they used caseless ammo, and I frankly don't have a clue what a caseless ammo clip/a gun that uses caseless ammo is supposed to look like. Whether it's caseless or not, if you make sure that it's consistent with the AWD model, I'll be happy. I guess this applies to the pistol, too. On a side note, if caseless ammo is used, maybe it could be mentioned that caseless ammo weighs less since it doesn't need cartridges? (I'm guessing here)

5.) Well, it looks like this text needs a fluff text... how about this one?

"The [Light Rifle], the 2027 (insert appropriate year) Weapon of the Year/Editor's Choice" -James Weapons, Vol. 2

Overall, awesome work!

[x0563511]

Caseless amunition does not have shell casings, the propellant is solid. This saves weight, leaves nothing (except maybe a detonation cap) to eject besides gasses, and takes up less space. I'm not sure what the propellant is, but I think it works like C4 in that you can blowtorch the stuff without it lighting off. Only explosive compression can detonate it I think (cap is a small explosion (explosion = pressure wave)

I'm not sure how the round is attached, but I think it has a small hollow that flares out or has a bulge, and the propellent goes up into that hollow behind the bullet and anchors it. This would also help expand the round to make it catch the rifling, and catch more gasses and reach a higher velocity.

New and uncommon stuff. I think it jams/foules easily, but I'm not sure.

[GDD]

Belly flops into thread.

I don't want to step on anyones toes but heres my suggestion...

1st para: new intro/rewording, cut off ending

2nd para: intergrates ending of 1st para to reduce repeat of "commision/contract of new advanced standard issue rifle" type bit.

Since the creation of gunpowder, the standard ground military weapon has been a rifle, in one form or another. When it became obvious that a multi-national task force had to be created, a fundermental problem soon arose: Intergration. Almost every nation’s armed forces used a different weapon, ammunition type etc which would quickly lead to logisitical problems out in the field.

Thus X-Corps Command approached several arms manufacturers through unofficial channels, offering a joint contract for designing and manufacturing of a new advanced standard-issue rifle. Although the fear of intellectual property theft generated some reluctance, the immediate Alien threat and the offer of an initial large, undisclosed sum overcame their reservations. In exchange, they would create a revolutionary rifle to which they would collectively retain the relevant patents and copyrights, but limit their sales exclusively to the X-Corps for the duration of the Alien menace.

worth a try

Edited by GDD, 14 May 2005 - 01:47 PM.

[Astyanax]

(does an impression of the Grammar Hulk™)
Asty sees misspellings! You won't like it when I see misspellings!

Just kidding. Here's a few comments:

- *checks toes* Nope, they weren't stepped on.
- spelling: "fundamental" and "integration"
- I really like this part: "which would quickly lead to logisitical problems out in the field"

Since this text is Moriarty's, he has the final say. We'll see what he thinks about the your changes. Thanks for the comments, GDD.


Caseless ammo
This is an excerpt from a forum I found. It really helped me understand the way caseless ammo works.

The ammo itself was a hard propelent, the bullet was sort of put in the stuff, and it was all pressed together. There is a diode in the bottom, an electrical charge sets off the diode which igntes the propellent. Everything is burned leaving nothing left but flying lead.

As far as I know (which is admittedly little on this topic), the HK G11 Rifle, a gun that uses caseless ammo, looks significantly different than other guns (a picture of the bullets is further down the page). This link probably has more info on the G11 than most people would need. However, it does say that the "external design of the G11 Rifle was based on the ergonomic requirements advanced to assure an easy handling in all firing positions and modes", so I don't know how much the G11's strange design is due to ergonomics and how much is due to the caseless nature of the gun.

Also, I've read sites that tout guns using "plastic cartridges" as another advancement in gun technology. I don't know much about this option, though.

Edited by Astyanax, 15 May 2005 - 09:30 AM.

[dan2]

Also, I've read sites that tout guns using "plastic cartridges" as another advancement in gun technology.  I don't know much about this option, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plastic that is stronger than steel is already discovered and probably it can be used for pistol ammo, since the bullet doesn't travel fast enough to overheat, but in a very strong rifle it might begin to burn on its way to the target.
Another problem might be that plastic is lightweight and the bullet needs a relatively high weight and low surface in order for it to have a decent kinetic energy required for penetration (hence lead, cheap and heavy, then later in history steel, which is very strong and doesn't change it's shape easily). I guess the next step was depleted uranium, double the lead density and am I allowed to mention "glassy tungsten"?

Edited by dan2, 16 May 2005 - 09:22 PM.

[Moriarty]

good comments and additions, everybody!
I tried to work them in as best I could.

caseless ammunition systems are nice, but not reliable in available weapon systems. the rifle CAN look like a normal rifle, the HK11 was really designed abnormally for other reasons. the page you linked to shows an early model, afaik, the later models looked even more square-ish, with the barrel concealed inside a big box with rounded edges... I based my caseless ammo concept mostly on what's theoretically possible, just like Shadowrun and other RPGs do. I would also think it uses a small electric discharge for ignition, so after the shot, there's nothing left but projectile and smoke.

[LIGHT RIFLE]
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/[Rifle]

Since the creation of gunpowder, the standard ground military weapon has been a rifle, in one form or another. When it became obvious that a multi-national task force had to be created, a fundamental problem soon arose: Integration. Almost every nation’s armed forces used a different weapon with its own ammunition type, which would quickly lead to logistical problems out in the field.
Thus X-Corps Command approached several arms manufacturers through unofficial government channels, offering a joint contract for the designing and manufacturing of a new advanced standard-issue rifle.
Although the fear of intellectual property theft generated some reluctance, the immediate Alien threat and the offer of an initial large, undisclosed sum of money overcame their reservations. In exchange, they would create a revolutionary rifle to which they would collectively retain the relevant patents and copyrights, but limit their sales exclusively to the X-Corps for the duration of the Alien menace.

The [Light Rifle] is the result of their efforts. It is powerful, accurate and built for extreme conditions. In addition to these strong points,  it is shorter and lighter than most other rifles, making it extremely handy in tight situations. Two firing modes are implemented; a thumb-activated selector switch allows the soldier to change firing modes from single shot to three-round burst. Fully automatic firing, although technically possible, was omitted for ammunition conservation reasons.

The [Light Rifle] uses a high-kinetic propellant caseless ammunition system very similar to the [X-Corps PISTOL]. The increased propellant mass compared to conventional ammunition is capable of accelerating the bullets to very high speeds, while at the same time leaving no spent cartridges at the scene of battle. Steel-tipped bullets are accountable for good armor-piercing capabilities, and a lead body ensures a high stopping power.
The increased recoil associated with high muzzle velocities is partly compensated via a pneumatic buffering system as well as a field-moldable shoulder piece made from memory plastics which guarantees a large rifle-shoulder contact area, minimizing recoil sores.
Another highly sophisticated component of the weapon is its sight system, which gives the soldier unparalleled accuracy in single shot mode. The system uses a combined 4x optical magnification scope and a built-in residual light amplification and thermal imaging processor (for night operations and degraded visibility environments).


I like the system, but I think that the correct term would be "targeting system", don't you think?


nah, I don't think so. targeting system would imply some kind of guidance, don't you think? I don't know, maybe sight system is wrong, too... "aiming system"?


X-Corps employs the [Light Rifle] as standard equipment.
For special purposes, X-Corps tactical analysts recommend the use of specialized weapons, such as explosives for wide-area destruction and large-caliber automatic weaponry for heavily armored opponents. For standard combat situations, however, the [Light Rifle] has been unanimously voted "weapon of choice".

[Astyanax]

Thanks for the clarification- that sounds fine. Hm, maybe "sighting system" would work better? Otherwise, excellent job, Moriarty!

[Moriarty]

hmmm... the correct term for the aiming thingy on top of a weapon appears to be "sights" for the basic thing, and "telescopic sight" for one with, well, a telescope. I'm not sure about the plural/singular thing in that kind of terminology, and I don't know how to fit it into the sentence structure. help!

[dan2]

hmmm... the correct term for the aiming thingy on top of a weapon appears to be "sights" for the basic thing, and "telescopic sight" for one with, well, a telescope. I'm not sure about the plural/singular thing in that kind of terminology, and I don't know how to fit it into the sentence structure. help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would use "sight(s)", it's good enough for me. What do you think, they'll use a 5 inch LCD instead with multispectral camera? Isn't this a not very high tech rifle?

[Exo2000]

True, but it's going to cost a lot more if you're going to basically slap on mini televisions & cameras.

[Astyanax]

hmmm... the correct term for the aiming thingy on top of a weapon appears to be "sights" for the basic thing, and "telescopic sight" for one with, well, a telescope. I'm not sure about the plural/singular thing in that kind of terminology, and I don't know how to fit it into the sentence structure. help!

Well, you guys are right that it is called a "sight", but it helps soldiers in "sighting" their targets (it's a transitive verb form, I think). It could be described as a "sighting system", where "sighting" is an adjective (I think) describing "system". At least to me, "sight system" sounds strange because "sight" and "system" are both nouns; "sight" does not describe "system".

It's sort of like "aiming system", "targeting system", and "guiding (or "guidance") system". In each case, the first word is the descriptor explaining what each system does. Compare them with: "aim system", "target system", and "guide system".

Also, it seems redundant to me; why not just call it a "sight"?

I hope that helps (sorry if it was overkill).

-Asty

[Moriarty]

you know, I really don't think "targeting system" is the right word to use. to me, that sounds like something where you can see all possible targets, select one, and the gun will automatically aim and fire for you. all you do is target designation.

I guess aiming system is most correct, but it sounds awkward to my ears... now that I think of it again, perhaps "scope" or "scope system" would be best? it would be like this:

...
Another highly sophisticated component of the weapon is its scope system, which gives the soldier unparalleled accuracy in single shot mode. The system uses a 4-fold optical magnification combined with a built-in residual light amplification and thermal imaging processor (for night operations and degraded visibility environments).
...

[Astyanax]

Hm... "advanced optics" or "enhanced visualization systems"? Eh, the second one might be too wordy.

[Moriarty]

what I'm trying to say is that I have NEVER heard "targeting system" used for anything that has to do with handguns. It is commonly used for missiles and stuff, though. that's why I think "targeting system" sounds misleading, just by common use.

I might be wrong, though. does anyone completely disagree with the above?

[Tsereve]

I think "scope" or "sight" would work fine. Definition 9a on dictionary.com for "sight" is, "A device used to assist aim by guiding the eye, as on a firearm or surveying instrument. "