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XCOMUFO & Xenocide

Need Any Art Yet?


jfranzen

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[color="red"]This thread is closed, we now have the recruitment center for new people to post in. Just keeping this around for now...[/color]


I've a two week semi-paid vacation starting Monday, and I've got nothing to do... Well, OK, technically, I'm working through a couple "Teach yourself DirectX/Direct3D" books, but I'd like to work on some art as well. Do you guys need any art assets yet? Or anything else? Please?

J^2 Edited by Breunor
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[quote name='jfranzen' date='Jan 31 2003, 11:08 PM']I've a two week semi-paid vacation starting Monday, and I've got nothing to do...  Well, OK, technically, I'm working through a couple "Teach yourself DirectX/Direct3D" books, but I'd like to work on some art as well.  Do you guys need any art assets yet?  Or anything else?  Please?

J^2[/quote]
Ok, given that you have little time... i gonna be brief...

Concept art: from Aliens, soldiers to Equipment... in that order...

Welcome

Greetings
Red Knight
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So, you only need concept sketches? I'm not that skilled at analog media... ;-p Although I do have a friend... I'll see if he's willing to let me use some of the sketches he's done for an XCOM mod we wanted to do a while ago... So you don't need anything modelled yet? OK. Guess I'll keep teaching myself Direct3D then...

J^2
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[quote name='jfranzen' date='Feb 2 2003, 11:23 PM']So, you only need concept sketches?  I'm not that skilled at analog media...  ;-p  Although I do have a friend...  I'll see if he's willing to let me use some of the sketches he's done for an XCOM mod we wanted to do a while ago...  So you don't need anything modelled yet?    OK.  Guess I'll keep teaching myself Direct3D then...

J^2[/quote]
Didnt know that you were a 3D Modeller/Texturer instead of a Analog (??) Artist... We are gonna need sooner or later common real life stuff, like fences, maybe cars, trees, etc. And concept art is not that important for that kind of things... So if you want, you can start with that... try to make stuff like fences in a way that you can repeat them in a long run..

I had been reading the first post i made... sorry, i was in a hurry and i guess i had sound a little harsh...

Greetings
Red Knight
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yeah it cant be 8 unless the real model is only one pole :huh?: ...i can count over 20 polys on that pic just by looking at it :) (prolly even a bit over 30) though i think even 100 would not be doo much or would it?

my DE has almost 400 polys and still aint finished :(
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[quote name='Fatal_Error' date='Feb 3 2003, 12:17 PM']yeah it cant be 8 unless the real model is only one pole :huh?: ...i can count over 20 polys on that pic just by looking at it :) (prolly even a bit over 30) though i think even 100 would not be doo much or would it?

my DE has almost 400 polys and still aint finished :([/quote]
he must've meant 80...
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[quote name='Maverick' date='Feb 3 2003, 05:39 AM']Here's a fence.... its 8 polygons.[/quote]
It is more than 8 triangles... but i think 50 triangles will do the trick... But one thing... take a look at how you can modify it to allow repeat it, without overlapping polygons..

Greetings
Red Knight
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if the two things that come out from the sides were reduced a bit so that on the left they stuck out the distance between the upright posts and the one on the right stopped at the side of the last upright you could put them together and it would look normal. (would you rather have 2 upright posts than 3? since this is supposed to be destroyable.)

Sorry that was a basic shape count (according to the number of basic shapes I had to make in the program; it was 8 (three pyramids, five boxes). If Poly's are sides, there are 39 (add up the sides on those shapes and you have 45....hehehe). I'm probably gonna put nails in the boards somewhere and do a couple other variations of the "fence" thing just for some practice in modeling in 3d and more importantly texturing. (by the way, for those who are 3d modeling stuff...look for optimize modifiers, they cut down the number of polygons a whole lot in more complex models)
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This is fence 1, designed (currently) to replace the white fence commonly seen in x-com 1 around houses at terror sites. it is suppsed to be (at most) waist height to chest height.

this edition has been modified so that it could be used repeatedly, i have to make end fences or further modify the current fence to allow it to make 90 degree turns.
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This is the second model fence, designed for suburban neighborhoods (seen most commonly on the west coast of US by my own experience...it becomes more rare as you move east. I've seen places in PA that don't have fences at all....weird)

Supposed to be at least 6 feet tall. This model can be repeated and can make 90 degree turns in its present form. This is a view from the back of the fence. 32 polygons.
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textures aren't mine, and I haven't learned to use them to my liking yet. I don't know how to place them based on coordinates. My modeling skills are non-existant. This is more practice for the texturing stuff I'm learning to work with. I have TONS of textures, but very little experience. As you can see I'm getting the hang of at least that aspect a bit.

I'm working on some models that will give a better representation of my modeling skills.
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  • 4 weeks later...
Hello all!
I've been part of another X-COM inspired project called the EDF Project. Well, after 5 years it has progressed practically nowhere and its forum is pretty dead.
Walking amongst the corpses, I stumbled upon this project. And my, you've actually done something! And in less than 5 years I guess. So, instead of looking at the graveyard, I now offer my humble skills for this project.
Here's an alien that I made for the other project (yes, quite high-poly and not of my own design).
[url="http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/EDF/Arc/arc_full_0_1.jpg"]The lizard alien[/url]

And here's a low-poly model I made for a Half-Life mod called Rival Species.
[url="http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/raptor/final_net.jpg"]Chaos Raptor[/url]

If you choose to accept me, I'd like a [u]short[/u] review of the current situation and some info on who should I turn to concerning this and that and if there are IRC-meetings and such, since it's pretty annoying to shift through every topic that MIGHT be of importance.

Phew ;)
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unfortunately both links were dead when I tried them, but we'd welcome your assistance. Character models are being covered (generally) by another project, the Last Hope mod for HL. If you can do character animations you should check out their site because they can really use the help (lasthopemod.com). If you are more comfortable doing static models we have plenty of those to do as well. Currently we are anticipating the second release of the geoscape within the next few days.

Status of the project:
The design document will be to a distributable form quite soon (within the next couple weeks) and that will contain ALL the information you will need in great detail. for the short story, here goes:

Basics: Xenocide is a 3d remake of X-com 1, perhaps one day implementing features from TFTD. We are trying to put out a game that very closely resembles the original and thereafter implementing a multiplayer version.

We're working on the geoscape right now, the battlescape pretty soon. We've started modeling of Environmental models (in this thread view the environmental models topic to see the progress on those) and we're working on receiving the character models from said mod. Coding on our game should pick up very soon, we are low on programmers right now. For programming related information talk to Red Knight, Stewart, and Gangsta; for Music related issues talk to Xcen, Abstract, Ghormak or Jow; for art info talk to Fatal Error, Maverick (me), or Deimos.

Another of our current deficiencies is in AI (possibly one of the hardest aspects of the game) but I talked to someone last night who said given the time frame we are working with he should be able to help us out quite a bit. Our current release time is slated at 2 years.

If you have general questions talk to anyone and they can point you in the right direction.

I hope this gives you an idea as to our progress and our goals, if you are interested please post again. Thanks for stopping by!
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Hmm, seems like the server is being fixed or something, talk about crappy timing.
But, yeah, I'm interested. I'm not very familliar with animations (especially with MS3D which I assume is the program used since the models are coming from a HL mod). I do however know plenty of modelling and something about skinning & texturing (check the raptor, if and when the link works). So maybe I'll check the enviromental models thread if there's something I can do there.
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All the programs we use and the file formats for everything will be in the design document that I'll be putting out ASAP. Right now the only one you really need to know is that models are standardized in .3ds format (I at least am using 3d studio, others are using milkshape as you suggested) Welcome aboard, we appreciate the help.
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Those are some nice models. How many polys is the lizard man? The muscle details look good, gives it more character since it's different from the standard pecs and 6-pack abs. As there's plenty of effort going towards unit modeling already, consider some environmental models as well. We've got a thread going on that already, you can see what's going on so far. The main area that hasn't been touched so far (based on posts) are fauna/flora for the battlescape. Do plants, trees, dogs, cats, etc interest you? Not as glamorous as making alien units, true. But still plenty of fun! There's also been discussion/agreement over variations based on the continent the battle takes place in. Some contribution of textures that are distinctive to your country are also very helpful. We're currently making basic sections for modular design of buildings, street signs, lamp posts, that type of thing. Vehicles haven't been discussed yet, so that's another untouched area.

If that all sounds boring, by all means make what you enjoy for the group to use!
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Hello Breunor, nice avatar you got there (I like wolves) :rolleyes:
Hmm, maybe I'll model some animals. But what is the min/max polycount for a single model? Smaller model will probably need less polys so let's say I model a cat and a cow, how many polys for each? And another thing, should the models be completely triangle-based or are quads allowed as well?
Oh yes...the lizard was probably 25k-40k polys, can't remember for certain.
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in general we have imposed limits of 1000-1500 polys for characters, MY limit for enviro models is 300 per model (self imposed). For a cat, try it under 300 and for a cow try it in under 1000. if those limits are too strict we can probably expand them at least a bit.
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[quote name='Maverick' date='Mar 3 2003, 07:20 PM']I'm currently using quads in my models, Red Knight may know better about the specifics involved in the types of polygons used.[/quote]
Using triangles is the best way cause you can stripify later for performance, there are a lot of tools that can do that (and free code too)... but dont worry quads are easily transformed into triangles...

Greetings
Red Knight
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I'm also a big wolf fan, I'm using triangles as that's what Milkshape uses. If you ever make a horse model, make sure to keep the head as a seperate piece so we can put it into the bed models we make (have to keep our options open for the future "Godfather Mod"!) :devillaugh:
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Hmm...I just remembered I actually modelled a high-poly horse some time ago...
[url="http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/old/ch_knight/elikko.jpg"]Horse picture[/url]

Maybe I'll squash "some" (bring in the steam roller) polys from that one. I've done it a couple of times on other models, it's pretty fast and produces adequate results compared to modelling everything again from scratch. ;)
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That horse looks great! I was imagining a battlescape at the typical country farm, and out in the pasture there would be a mutilated cow or horse (assuming the ship wasn't shot down by an interceptor). Do you have a "entrails on the outside" version? :alienlol:
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There, I mauled the horse a bit, now down to 1008 polys and plenty left to remove if needed :LOL:
[url="http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/Xenocide/horse.jpg"]The low-poly horse[/url]

However, it still lacks a tail. Simple to model yes, but how should it be textured since it's end would have to be partially transparent to look right...
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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest drewid
Hi Y'all
I'm one of the artists from the original x-com team. I did stuff on Enemy Unknown (psx), TFTD, Apocalypse and the ill-fated Alliance.

I like the sound of the project and the geoscape looks really cool, and I like to get involved if possible. I can turn my hand to pretty much anything I've done modelling / texturing/ interface design and rigging / animation. I'd prefer character animation though, (I'm not getting enough at work).

I can't make too many promises about how much I can do, We're coming up to alpha on our current project, but I'm reasonably quick and I'd like to give it a go.

I've read that "the last hope" is looking for animators, Is there someone in particular I should mail?

Thanks - drewid
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[quote name='drewid' date='Mar 24 2003, 06:20 PM']Hi Y'all
I'm one of the artists from the original x-com team. I did stuff on Enemy Unknown (psx), TFTD, Apocalypse and the ill-fated Alliance.

I like the sound of the project and the geoscape looks really cool, and I like to get involved if possible.  I can turn my hand to pretty much anything I've done modelling / texturing/ interface design and rigging / animation. I'd prefer character animation though,  (I'm not getting enough at work).

I can't make too many promises about how much I can do, We're coming up to alpha on our current project, but I'm reasonably quick and I'd like to give it a go.

I've read that "the last hope" is looking for animators, Is there someone in particular I should mail?

Thanks - drewid[/quote]
Wow, first of all i would like to say you THANK YOU, you people have done a masterpiece.

About your question, everybody who wanna help to make this real is welcome. If you want to work on the Geoscape interface design you can join up with Deimos. If your interest is modelling, we are currently making enviromental assets.

About animation, the animation engine is not even started (we have to code it YET), but it will use "keyframed bones" unless we find another better way to do it, so you can start with animatable models like Soldiers (we dont have any yet)...

About Last Hope, we are from the same community so we are sharing assets with them (why to reinvent the wheel if we can help each other).

Currently we are VERY short on Concept Artists and animators, something we really need. And finally, WELCOME TO XENOCIDE.

Greetings
Red Knight
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Guest drewid
Thanx ,

Is there a list of assets needed and poly counts? Like a spreadsheet or something for each area of the game? or a central place for non-game stuff like this?

As to the design of the geoscape, I've downloaded the demo but I havent got it installed yet. The look of it is fantastic though judging from the screenshots.

I don't know if you are already doing this, so forgive me if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs, but I'm a great fan of getting gameplay running with dummy objects, (cardboard boxes with the right number of polygons. There are huge advantages to this

you can get a codebase running without having to wait for the art,

you can test the gameplay without being distracted by pretty graphics.

The artists get firmer guidelines and a set of templates for poly counts and sizes of environmental assets.

You can try out movement speeds and lock down these for the animators.

You guys look pretty organised so I expect you're doing this sort of stuff already.

-Drewid
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About the tasks, you can check in sourceforge under tasks.
[url="http://sourceforge.net/pm/task.php?group_project_id=26779&group_id=67048&func%3d%62rowse"]Sourceforge Tasks[/url]
This is what is currently being worked on (you can do any other thing you think will be useful). We are in the process of setting up a web system (to store assets) for artists, cause most are not confortable with the CVS Service from Sourceforge.
We are currently focus on the Network Layer (cause Battlescape will be multiplayer ala UFO 2000, because not only it is cool to play it, it is easier to test the battlescape without worrying about programming AI), when the time comes for the battlescape your advices will prove very useful.

We cant start working on the battlescape right now cause the Geoscape you saw it is part of my bachelor degree thesis in Computer Science and i still have to finish sound support and basic collition detection in the 3d engine before my tutor let me release it on the internet (in short i have to finish the coding stuff)...

I would like to make you some question relating assets and performance. Our base system is a 900 Mhz Processor and GeForce 2 MX 400 64Mb probably we will drop it in 1 year, but for now is what we have.

How many polygons do you think it will be a good bet for characters, and enviromental models? How many polygons is a standard in the industry?

We are going for a limit of 300 Polygons for small enviromental assets like benchs, stop signs, trees, etc. For soldiers our bet (we havent modelled any yet) and aliens is 1500 Polygons

Greetings
Red Knight
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Guest drewid
[quote name='red knight' date='Mar 25 2003, 10:22 AM']How many polygons do you think it will be a good bet for characters, and enviromental models? How many polygons is a standard in the industry?

We are going for a limit of 300 Polygons for small enviromental assets like benchs, stop signs, trees, etc. For soldiers our bet (we havent modelled any yet) and aliens is 1500 Polygons.[/quote]
Thanx for the task info. Are there any details of scales n stuff anywhere?


The poly count is not actually an easy question to answer. There doesn't seem to be an industry standard, it varies from engine to engine, coder to coder. Speed seems affected more by things like texture thrashing, alpha sorting bottlenecks and multipass textures, than polygons as such.

For small stuff I'd just say as few as you can get away with for the size of the object. most of the environmental objects you've mentioned really ought to come in at less than 100 but increase it if it looks bad.

1500 sounds fine for a character.

But if there are any artists reading this, remember, "These are limits, not targets" :D

I'd rather come in on the low side and have the game running smoother. it leaves us some overhead for AI and things like smoke effects.

Same goes for texture sizes, how small can you go and get away with it? depends on the zoom level and the screen res.

I couldn't get the geoscape running on my home machine (p3 700, 256mb Ram, 32Mb GeForce3). I'll try on my work machine tomorrow. (WHEN THE BOSS ISN'T LOOKING :-) ) I'm afraid the logging wasn't very helpful it just said>

State info: The property keyboardexclusivemode does not exist, using default value.
State info: The property keyboardforegroundmode does not exist, using default value.
Error found: Uknown error.
;-(

I want to get it going so as I can see what is needed...


regards
-Drewid
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[quote name='drewid' date='Mar 25 2003, 01:16 PM']I couldn't get the geoscape running on my home machine (p3 700, 256mb Ram, 32Mb GeForce3). I'll try on my work machine tomorrow. (WHEN THE BOSS ISN'T LOOKING :-) ) I'm afraid the logging wasn't very helpful it just said>

State info: The property keyboardexclusivemode does not exist, using default value.
State info: The property keyboardforegroundmode does not exist, using default value.
Error found: Uknown error.
;-([/quote]
For the Unknown error message, you have to blame NVidia Runtime Cg buddies ( i do it too, cause it dont help to find the errors)... Try Pre-Alpha 2.0 cause we are having a lot of trouble with 2.1 and i cant find out why, im still working on it... If there is nothing in the logging, then you dont have anything to worry about... And check that the first two are State Info not errors.

Greetings
Red Knight
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Drewid mentioned scale for models, there was some talk regarding this in another thread. Speaking for myself at least, I'm using 1 meter/40" squares for buildings, and the walls are 2.5 meters/100" tall. I don't know if that's the kind of scale you were referring to, I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff. The textures I'm using are bmp textures of 128x128 pixels, 24 bit color, and average 48kb in size each. Would any of that lead to performance issues that you're aware of Drewid?

And thanks for joining up, o' forefather of X-Com! :D
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Guest drewid
[quote name='Breunor' date='Mar 25 2003, 03:18 PM']I'm using 1 meter/40" squares for buildings, and the walls are 2.5 meters/100" tall. I don't know if that's the kind of scale you were referring to, I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff. The textures I'm using are bmp textures of 128x128 pixels, 24 bit color, and average 48kb in size each. Would any of that lead to performance issues that you're aware of Drewid?

And thanks for joining up, o' forefather of X-Com! :D[/quote]
Running the geoscape: If you want you can mail me a debug version with more logging if it would help.

Scale stuff - yep that's the sort of thing. Do you have a standard 1m or 10cm cube, or a box of 1x1x2.5 that I can import into Max or Maya to line my scale up with yours.

ATM my Maya units are in mm cos the last project I was on was mixed Maya and Lightwave, and the LW stuff came into Maya TINY :huh: Legacy code

:D
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I have a wall section I'm using as well as a block that is as tall as the wall and also covers one section of flooring. You can get them here:
[url="http://home.midsouth.rr.com/maddoxtudor/xenocide/wall_with_window.3ds"]Wall Section[/url]
[url="http://home.midsouth.rr.com/maddoxtudor/xenocide/block.3ds"]Block[/url]

Hopefully these don't import into your app with Godzilla proportions! I'm using Milkshape to do this, I'm using the smallest grid squares as 1 inch markers. So the block is 40"x40"x100" for me. It's my bad-math version of 1 meter square by 2.5 meters high.
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Guest drewid
Yay I got those blocks.

AND I got the geoscape working on my work machine.......... :wub:
s'lurvly.

:cussing: AN NOW I WANNA GO KICK SKINNY GREY ALIEN BUTT ALL THE WAY BACK TO CYDONIA>>>>> YEEAAARRRRGGHHH.

:uzzi: :alientalk:



OK, That's better....

-Drewid
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W00t, you rock man.
Never thought someone from the official X-COM team would join us here.
Welcome aboard sir :D

So, what do you think of the future of X-COM? Will a new title arrive in the shops someday?
Or 1 of the any cancelled or on hold titles like Alliance, Dreamland Chronicles/Genesis?
Sorry, I bet many ppl questioned it to you but it still keeps unanswered for me.
I'm just so damn curious :P
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Guest drewid
Thanx - But I'm just an artist who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Future of X-Com? I have no idea. I heard a rumour (here somewhere) that Fireaxis had picked up the license, I haven't had time to investigate this any further. Infogrammes is in trouble and Hasbeen REALLY don't care as long as someone gives them money.

Dreamland chronicles killed by virgin/titus. I don't know whether aftermath will make it.

Alliance and Genesis going under was a real kicker. Both of them were looking really sweet.
Alliance had some problems but they were getting sorted, Genesis was on budget, on schedule and had big projected sales. The REALLY ANNOYING thing was that they were killed by corporate ignorance and stupidity. :cussing:

Someone is bouynd to do a remake at some point. but that gameplay (especially XC1) was beautifully balanced. doing a major update without breaking that would be a difficult task.

Was it you made the sectiod and snakeman on the "last hope" site? They really rock hard. I'd love to animate those. :-)

-Drewid
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[quote name='drewid' date='Mar 27 2003, 09:28 AM']Future of X-Com? I have no idea.  I heard a rumour (here somewhere) that Fireaxis had picked up the license, I haven't had time to investigate this any further.[/quote]
You dont have to research anymore, Micah had contacted Firaxis and they do not own XCom (Infogrames do), was kinda official statement (The Director of Marketting replied)..

Greetings
Red Knight
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Guest drewid
That's interesting...
The way I remember Hasbro actually 'own' x-com, but have leased the rights of all games software IP to Infogrammes...something like that I think.

Infogrammes are in trouble ATM and are closing studios around the uk. The closed what was left of Microprose UK just before Christmas.

That was the birthplace , or a least one of the parents of X-Com. It was a real partnership between MPS and Mythos throughout the whole process.

Anyhow I've not heard of anything in development but I'll ask around.
-Drewid
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The Sectoid and Snakeman we're made by Nod.
He is a very professional artist, and some even call him "Nod the model God".
He deserves that title alright. He can make exact 3d copies of the original lowres 2D images.
For now, I model weapons and player models.
I can make near perfect copies of the original x-com weapons. I wish I had that skill with player models as well, just like Nod :unsure:
I made 1 player model for the project, and that's the Personal Armour soldier.
1 day, I will be as good as him :devilsmile:

Btw, Last Hope and Xenocide have a pact with each other. They can use our models and stuff if we get assistance from them in return.
So your definitly going to animate them :D
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