Jump to content


Captured Sectoid leader on first Terror site


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 November 2004 - 08:21 PM

First Terror Site, I face some Sectoids and Cyberdisks, I finish the mission and I see I've captured 1 live Alien, when I check my research list, I find SECTOID LEADER! :happybanana: , I was never able to get one (especially since my game always crashed before and I stopped playing, or they just annihilated me), and now I have for research the Psi Lab. Is it common to get a Leader so early in the game?
What should I research first, Plasma weapons, Armour, or Psi Lab?

#2 Deathskull

Deathskull

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 439 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 11:20 PM

armour
USA Today has come out with a new survey: Apparently three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population.
- David Letterman

#3 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 November 2004 - 11:40 PM

right :)

#4 Deathskull

Deathskull

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 439 posts

Posted 20 November 2004 - 01:12 AM

maybe weapons

edit: then again, early psi training would give you a really big advantage

edit: but armour would keep those high psi strength guys alive

edit: but then again rifles suck, so go with weapons

edit: but early psi would help you get more live aliens and stuff

edit: but armour would help you bring back more live soldiers

edit: but armour and psi are very expensive and have to be replaced

edit: but psi also helps you resist attacks

edit: ignore me while i argue with myself

Edited by Deathskull, 20 November 2004 - 01:16 AM.

USA Today has come out with a new survey: Apparently three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population.
- David Letterman

#5 Tuoppi

Tuoppi

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts

Posted 20 November 2004 - 03:46 AM

Get one decent weapon, and go for psionics. Cannon fodder is easy to replace, Psionics take about 3 months to get really useful, so they have a kind of hurry to get started.

Building lab, takes slightly less than 1 month, initial training 1 month and skill training (panicking everything in every mission multiple times) 1 month. Get the lab researched at the chance of month or you end up wasting 1 additional month waiting with empty lab.

[typoedit]

Edited by Tuoppi, 20 November 2004 - 03:48 AM.


#6 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 20 November 2004 - 06:42 AM

How comfortable are you with the starting weapons? And how reliant on psionics do you want to be in the later stages of the game?

I'm generally happy against most early level enemies with a laser pistol and a bunch of high explosives, and I tend to avoid the use of psi-amps completely in the later stages, so given a similar situation, I'd go for personal armour first, then a plasma rifle or heavy plasma and its corresponding clip just to get the craft plasma cannon and then I'll move on to the psi lab for screening recruits.

That's how I'd approach it, but there's no right or wrong way to approach this scenario.

And yes, leaders do appear early in some of the large ships. Commanders can even make an early appearance in base attacks from time to time. The main problem is identifying them. Almost got a sectoid commander in my first base attack a few weeks into a brand new game at one time... but due to unforseen complications had to restart it. Would've had Cydonia or Bust as early as March or April had I been able to continue that game. Oh well.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#7 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 20 November 2004 - 11:06 AM

maybe weapons

edit: then again, early psi training would give you a really big advantage

edit: but armour would keep those high psi strength guys alive

edit: but then again rifles suck, so go with weapons

edit: but early psi would help you get more live aliens and stuff

edit: but armour would help you bring back more live soldiers

edit: but armour and psi are very expensive and have to be replaced

edit: but psi also helps you resist attacks

edit: ignore me while i argue with myself

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Dammit Deathskull!
[ignore Deathskull] :)

#8 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 21 November 2004 - 12:24 AM

Personally, I'd probably go with armor first, then the plasma stuff. Need to give my goon squad a fighting chance while waiting for the psi fodder screening lab later heh

#9 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:07 AM

Well, a bug has attacked my game, does anybody know what "patch code timed out" is?

#10 Admiral Harkov

Admiral Harkov

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 22 November 2004 - 11:40 AM

Yeah, some kind of problem with the patch code timing out :devillaugh: Maybe the f0dder's patch waits too short time to XOM to launch or start its window.
When that happens the game is running in background but you can't see it, but you can't start it right. Each time you run it you get one more UFO Defense.exe running. Open Task Manager, open the processes tab, search for UFO Enemy Unknown.exe or whatever is the name of your XCOM exe, kill it. Then try again.
Sometimes I have to do that more than twice. But at the end it loads.

Greetings.

P.D. -That problem happened sometimes when I tried xcomutil in windows version, each time it unloaded geoscape.exe or tavtical.exe and tried to load the other I got that error, then some seconds after xcomutil tried again and it was possible to continue, but it was a race to kill all UFo.exe before the next xcomutil call

#11 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 22 November 2004 - 02:24 PM

Yeah, I have xcomutil installed on windows, happens some times when I load a game on the battlescape or this time when I try to get to a crashed UFO.

#12 Zombie

Zombie

    Colonel

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 2,947 posts

Posted 23 November 2004 - 04:18 AM

Recently, I attacked a Sectoid Terror Site with just incendiary weapons and rookies at the end of the first month. To make a long story short, the last alien I saw was a Sectoid Leader, and I didn't have a stun weapon along. Didn't matter, the fire was enough to nab him alive! :)

So no, it's not uncommon to get a Sectoid Leader so early in the game. It depends on what the game decides it will send your way. If the first missions have Floaters, Snakemen, or Mutons, well then, you might get a leader from the Floater or Snakeman, but they won't give you psi when researched. You'll need to visit the medium-large vessels to nab a Sectoid Leader and psi.

Usually, by the end of the first month, I have Laser Rifles, so plasma technology is pretty low on my list of research projects. Even though the Laser Rifle deals less damage than it's plasma counterparts, it's strong enough for me! Therefore, armor becomes my next priority.

Throw a Sectoid Leader in the mix, and I'd research it after some armor improvement, like maybe the Power Suit. You are bound to have some casualties in the first two or three months, so it doesn't pay to rush Psi training along, only to have that soldier killed in action before he gets through the training. After you research Psi, I'd go back and research the Flying Suit and Heavy Plasma to improve survivability.Though, in the end, everything falls upon each player to decide what's important and what's not. :)

If you ever want to attempt to capture a live Sectoid Leader in the first month, you'll need four things:
1) Alien Containment module built at your base.
2) A Ship or site with a Sectoid Leader
3) Stun Rods for everyone on your transport.
4) The Mind Probe.

Sure, you can get by without the Mind Probe, but it helps to know what to kill and what to stun. You could also get by without the Stun Rods if you feel lucky, but I hardly ever get lucky! (Sounds kinda bad, doesn't it)!?! :D
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#13 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 23 November 2004 - 10:55 AM

I captured the Sectoid Leader using only Laser Rifles, no stun rods and no other equipments, I just shoot everything I see and bam!, Sectoid Leader captured, the only live creature that made out of that shooting gallery anyway.

Edited by Azrael, 23 November 2004 - 10:56 AM.


#14 sir_schwick

sir_schwick

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 481 posts

Posted 24 November 2004 - 11:26 AM

I captured a sectoid leader on a downed Abductor ship in the first month. Ending up loosing 8 of out 10 members in the assault due to panic/MC.

Research, never use armour b/c HP usually kills you even in flying suit.
New found respect for motion sensors.

#15 Admiral Harkov

Admiral Harkov

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 12:14 PM

I still haven't that chance, but if I had a sectoid leader, I'd only research heavy plasma before the Psi. At the end, armour doesn't seem to make such a difference for me. The only one that could is the flying suit, but I rarely use of it (I get usually low of resources).

P.S. - I notice that the PS about the timeout error seems to mean I got that with xcomutil, that's not right: I get it when launching Xcom without xcomutil, too. S, Azrael, you solve it in the moment? Just open task manager and kill every game exe, ufo.exe, tactical.exe, geoscape.exe or whatever, and NOT xcomutil's module, that is running until xcomutil succeeds loading the module it wants. (I repeat because having that P.S. not clearly expressed I want prevent if the explanation of it would be confusing).

#16 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 01:44 PM

Surely, some armour is better than no armour. Besides, with all that money you make off selling surplus alien equipment, and the sheer mounds of alien alloys you tend to get after a few missions, you can make personal armour a standard issue outfit and keep on building spares.

Does it do nothing?

Look at it this way, weapon damage is random and can do up to almost 2 times the listed damage against you. Armour is simply damage reduction. You cannot do anything about a full strength blast from a heavy plasma, but if the attack isn't at full strength, the armour might just save your soldier. It's better to have a 3/8th chance of surviving than 1/16th, right? No, no, those numbers aren't from the game. Just pulling them out of the air, that's all.

Armour also offers smoke filters (better filters with better armour), so you don't get knocked out so quickly when you're standing in smoke.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#17 Tsereve

Tsereve

    Captain

  • Xenocide Recruit
  • 895 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:22 PM

What, not a single exactly and painstakingly calculated list of figures and forumulas straight from the game? Are you losing your touch, NKF? :P

Personal armor sux. There's just no other way to say it, it can't stand up to anything alien. If you've ever had personal armor withstand any plasma weaponry? What about an alien grenade? What about a regular grenade?? If so, I'd love to hear about it. And please record the max hp/remaining hp, plus any fatal wounds.

Don't you think fatal wounds should be more fatal? Fatal, as in killing instantly? If the guy has a fatal wound, it should be, well, fatal.

Oh, yes, and I'd get Heavy Plasma's first. MC isn't really that great against Sectoids or Snakemen (to my experience), and you don't need it to beat Floaters. Now, imagine taking down a Cyberdisc with human tech. I've never seen Flying Armor withstand a Cyberdisc, direct hit or otherwise.
Justice will be dispensed by cannonade and cutlass, and all manner of remorseless pieces of metal.

Take one more step, and I swear, I will kill you so hard you will die to death.

#18 Tuoppi

Tuoppi

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:29 PM

I always find transport crafts big enough and soldiers cheap. I only build armor after nothing else is needed, and i have too much money. Unarmored soldier dies->loss of 40k. FS-suit soldier dies->loss of precious elerium, too much money and workshop time.

#19 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 November 2004 - 03:09 PM

I still haven't that chance, but if I had a sectoid leader, I'd only research heavy plasma before the Psi. At the end, armour doesn't seem to make such a difference for me. The only one that could is the flying suit, but I rarely use of it (I get usually low of resources).

P.S. - I notice that the PS about the timeout error seems to mean I got that with xcomutil, that's not right: I get it when launching Xcom without xcomutil, too. S, Azrael, you solve it in the moment? Just open task manager and kill every game exe, ufo.exe, tactical.exe, geoscape.exe or whatever, and NOT xcomutil's module, that is running until xcomutil succeeds loading the module it wants. (I repeat because having that P.S. not clearly expressed I want prevent if the explanation of it would be confusing).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'll try that, thanks Admiral :)

#20 Tsereve

Tsereve

    Captain

  • Xenocide Recruit
  • 895 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 03:20 PM

Forget elerium loss, by the time I get Avengers, I'm usually selling elerium! Seriously, I'll have over 600 per base. My interceptors, etc. handle their opponents very delicately.
Justice will be dispensed by cannonade and cutlass, and all manner of remorseless pieces of metal.

Take one more step, and I swear, I will kill you so hard you will die to death.

#21 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 09:48 PM

Personal armour is still better than your skivvies. Also, personal armour costs 0 elerium, and is cheap as free when you consider how much alloys you get and the fact that you can make up the cash loss by selling a couple of heavy plasmas. No real loss there.

Let's see now. Want actual information? Well, let me just grab a calculator and some values from the game...

Anyway, let's take your standard plasma pistol, of which I've survived plenty of times in personal armour.

Exhibit A does 52 damage. X-Com soldiers almost always take double damage from practically everything. (Not quite, but it's so close to 200% that I'm just generalising here). So we get a max of 104 possible damage. Note that I said a max of 104 damage. Damage is random so the UFOpaedia entry is actually the average amount of damage that will be dealt to X-Com soldiers (not necessarily to all the aliens)

Exhibit B, personal armour, has 50 front, 40 sides, 30 rear and under armour.

Your soldier can have anywhere between 25 - 60 (+1) health.

So, with personal armour, the ranges of possible damage that you'll get will be (note, these values are only true for the first hit that does damage:

Front: 0 to 104 - 50 = 0 to 54 (51% of 104 damage)
Sides: 0 to 104 - 40 = 0 to 64 (61% ditto)
Rear: 0 to 104 - 30 = 0 to 74 (71%)

Note: Negatives are ignored and treated as 0's.

Compare that against unarmoured soldiers (front 12, sides 8, rear and under 2):

Front: 0 to 104 - 8 =0 to 96 (92%)
Sides: 0 to 104 - 4 = 0 to 100 (96%)
Rear: 0 to 104 - 2 = 0 to 102 (98%)

See the difference? Granted, you'd still die in a single shot if the damage does more than your health, but you've got to remember that damage is still random so the chance that you'll survive is always there.

Let's look at the flying suit just for argument's sake (front 110, sides 90, rear 80, under 70):

Front: 0 to 104 - 110 = 0 (0% - Only true if it hits the front, it might slip to the sides)
Sides: 0 to 104 - 90 = 0 - 14 (13%)
Rear: 0 to 104 - 80 = 0 - 24 (23%)

I'd say you'd only get an instant kill if you were shot in the back and the damage were to be at full power and you only had less than 24 hit points.

Now someone asked about standard grenades. Let's see, standard grenade 50HE, HE only strikes under-armour. X-Com soldiers take almost double damage, but for the sake of calculation, we'll say double. So:

No Armour: 0 to 100 - 2 = 0 to 98 (98%)
Personal armour: 0 to 100 - 30 = 0 to 70 (70%)
Power Suit: 0 to 100 - 60 = 0 to 40 (40%)
Flying Suit: 0 to 100 - 70 = 0 to 30 (30%)

So, even in a flying suit, you'd die instantly if you were to have less than 30 health to a grenade that rolled a good number.

So, while the personal armour may not protect as much as a flying suit, it's still a big leap ahead from wearing no armour at all.

I might've got a few calculations wrong from the above, but I hope I've illustrated my point.

Note however that with the heavy plasma, things are even worse. Just to illustrate an example, let me do just the front armour bits. Heavy plasma 110, or 220 to you.

No Armour: 0 to 220 - 8 = 0 to 212 (96%)
Personal Armour: 0 to 220 - 50 = 0 to 170 (77%)
Power: 0 to 220 - 100 = 0 to 120 (54%)
Flying Suit: 0 to 220 - 110 = 0 to 110 (50%)

No matter what, the heavy plasma has a greater range of values to choose from, so it gets more frequent instant-kills. Still, with armour, this range becomes smaller. It's better to have a small chance of survival than to not have any at all, right?

And personal armour, expensive? Waste engineer time? Don't really see it as much of a problem, to tell the truth, unless you're really hard on your luck. Most of the time my engineers are idle.

But don't let this dissuade you if don't mind spending the cash to hire cannon fodder. Works out in the end either way, I guess. It's just that you lose points when you lose soldiers. Since personal armour is so easy to replace, I find it a good way to mitigate the damage.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 25 November 2004 - 10:05 PM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#22 sir_schwick

sir_schwick

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 481 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 10:37 PM

How many aliens carry Plasma Pistols by the time you have idle Engineers? Besides, you waste time when youc ould be reseraching weapons to kill the alien before they casn shoot you.

#23 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:16 PM

Ah, that depends on the difficulty level and how comfortable you are with your early equipment. I'd say my engineers get pretty idle by the time I've built a few craft plasma cannons--unless my cash flow problems are really bad. After that they just seem to churn out personal armour and any other odds and ends I might need, like power armour for my veterans, a Lightning or extra laser pistols. Most of the time they're just twiddling their thumbs (all 400 thumbs).

The plasma pistols tend to stick around a lot longer on easier levels. On harder levels they get phased out a lot faster. But I'd still rather my rookies have 50 armour than 8 when facing a heavy plasma.

Also, you can already kill the aliens before they can shoot you with or without armour or great weapons. It just needs a scout to spot the alien who has high reactions and lots of TUs to negate the alien's reaction shot, and then plenty of soldiers standing out of the alien's field of vision to open fire on the alien with impunity. Bam! Or just toss explosives here and there with wild abandon.

But don't mind me. I've forced myself to enjoy and play well with crummy weapons (but fair armour). Hence why I'm a little more wasteful with my basic resources. :)

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#24 Snakeman

Snakeman

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts

Posted 26 November 2004 - 03:16 AM

Also a side note here, but lately I've been trying not to keep my engineers idle so I remembered one cost associated with manufacturing them (although I can't remember the engineer hours). It only takes like 4 alien alloys to create one suit of personal armor. Not too shabby when you consider that if you've been stalking alien supply vessels to get their booty, one good haul can supplement an average garrison of approximately 30-34 men at your base with that armor (alien alloy haul if ship is intact I've seen average around 141 or so at the end of the mission).

Time to completion is a different issue though since I don't remember the hours it takes, and if I need a lot, I put a ton of engineers on the project anyway. My main engineering base has the max engineers assigned at 255 so I can make things quick, but each base has at least 35 minimum.

Overall when it comes to armor, once I've settled on the soldier count I want at each base, I plan for around 12 backup flying suits, and 8 or so power suits, then about another 12 personal armor for the rookies. I just like having spares particularly if I'm playing a more aggressive campaign and losing soldiers along the way.

I'm also the same way with regard to them making other things just to keep a few of, such as plasma pistols/clips if I get too low but mostly I fill in the down times with laser cannon production.

#25 Admiral Harkov

Admiral Harkov

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 26 November 2004 - 05:53 AM

I've not say armor does actually nothing, but that I feel what it does is not enough to get it first to MC, considering I'm still waiting to have it someday. Maybe when I have it I see that armour is better than MC.
Even more, there are no few times that my power armored soldiers fall at first shoot and my nude rookies stand two or three plasma shots. The usual (97%) is everybody dies with first shot. The difference is noticed much more when the soldier is mind controlled by aliens (which makes me think maybe when the soldier is controlled by alien, it may lose that 200% damage and gets the 100%): then 95% of times I try to kill one in power armor I need at least two plasma shots, and sometimes up to five; and if the mind controlled is unarmored or personal armor just one plasma shot is enough.
But not having MC at hand, I go to armour mmediatley after getting heavy plasmas, they got full priority and I try to equip everyone first with personal and then with power. But in the three games I've played I never got enough elerium to build flying suits.
And since I am usually low on elerium (very low, if I've got a firestorm it's hard to keep it working. Well, now with my last superhuman it seems I won't be so short, but I was in the previous SH game) it annoys me very much losing the soldier and the armor. At the end for me its a bit better lose more soldier (that are a few more) and less elerium (that is somewhat less).
With item sellings I rarely have money problems.

Edited by Admiral Harkov, 26 November 2004 - 05:55 AM.