Guest Jim69 Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Personally I like the idea of it being a little more original, it adds something rather than following the stereotype which can only be good IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denevive Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 I agree that the sectoid should look more "classic"... however, I love your design for an enviornmental suit. I personally think that the suit could be used as a sort of sectoid armor. While I know that this is not nessecarily version 1 stuff I'm talking about, I seriously think we should consider adding that ev suit/armor idea to this version. Imagine that your hyperwave decoder detects a ufo filled with greys which you then *naturally* shoot down. Another cakewalk mission for your hardened troops... until the grey/sectoid with tbhe armor steps out of the shadows! It makes the inclusion of sectoids in later missions more balanced. After all, it would be easy to write an algorithim for the game that determines the loadout and experience of your squad and decides to "upgrade" the grays. Afterall... the aliens are researching us too, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 I like the idea of giving aliens armor. However, I don't like the mouth on the evsuit, but that is just personal bias speaking. The suit is fantabulous, but I dislike the naked grey, his head doesn't seem quite alien enough (more like a mutated baby imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustedSoul Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 love the E suit , but it's always the eyes i notice most with Aliens, and personally the eyes need to show emotion to be effective. That's just my opinion anyway. I edited the pic a little, to show you what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 They need to be shorter, and the eyes need to be a little bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBob Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 how about some armor plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) Here's fux's pic squished down for a "shorter" version: Consider as well where the weapon is at, that's where you'd have it holding the plasma rifle (which has a sleeve handle, looking similar to this). I agree with having something similar/evocative to the original game, but not a pure duplicate of "little grey men" per se. Edited December 18, 2003 by Breunor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 The Armor/EV suit looks amazing. I'm not too hapy with the unarmored grey though. He doesn't look menacing enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 (edited) Hehe, the sectoid looks like it ran into a wall at high velocity. Its gone *splat*I know why...he didn't want to clean the latrine so the commander thrown him out the door while the medium scout was still in-flight..and BAM...splat he went against Sears Tower Oh..and btw...love that sectoid powered suit(especially after the eyes are modified), altough I think sectoids shouldn't be so skinny...we already have ethereals for that.... Edited December 19, 2003 by Tenebrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I think fux's concept would work rather well if the chest was just a 'little' more robust, or rather smoother from collar bone to pelvis instead of the significant cavity visible in that picture. Make the eyes larger, and the helmet's eyes larger as well with the sharper corners, and it would look very good. The idea has really stuck on me about having at least 1 alien race require an environment suit like this to survive in our atmosphere. All the other aliens breathe air just fine, but it's odd there isn't at least 1 that doesn't, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I think if any can't breathe air it would be the 'master' races- the races that are the least brutalized by surgical improvements. I'll start work on refining the concepts right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Here's an extension of the original doodle that I coloured encorperating your gracious suggestions. Not much has changed from the orgininal rendering, admittedly. I enlarged the head a little and if this is well accepted I will go on to shorten the body. Originally, and what I have attempted to preserve, is a design that is versatile and potentially very expressive. With the neck in the original what I was going for is a strong, muscular neck to support it's large head, but also as a tool to break up the human form slightly. I figured the sectoid could appear quite alien with a long, very maneouverable neck that could extend and contract. I sort of envisioned it swaying its head side to side to get a better view of things and making other readable gestures that are not classically human. In this rendering it's neck in contracted- whether it is able to extend or not or to what extent in the final cut is something I think that we can explore, but is not super pertinent. The face is quite similar only it is rendered in kind of a grimace. I emphasized the features more, and toned down the appearance of the mouth. Because the original drawing was quite small it was difficult to get a line thin enough that conveyed what I wanted it to. I think this is a much better representation. Pay most attention to the head. It is what i was attempting to portray for the most part. The body is a working idea like the skin on the last rendering (that I didn't want to take the time to paint in this time). In keeping with the fact that the sectoids were hinted to be 'of aquatic origin,' I wanted to try and flesh that out more with more than just webbed toes. What I was going for here was a kind of fish-like skeletal structure with sinuous muscles covered by a kind of rubbery amphibian skin. I didn't spend too much time on it, but feel free to tell me what you think either here or in a pm. I don't know the status of commentary on concepts in these forums but I would most certainly appreciate your feedback. The sectoid is one of the single most important creatures in this game and I think we owe it to ourselves to take a long time to develop this particular creature, if the needs be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 I like that one alot better. It looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 That's good stuff...but I think he looks too angry. Maybe a more passive look would fit into the sectoids, given their semi-psionic nature...bla bla..I think that's been pointed out before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 I think the chest of that one looks too "vest like" it doesn't look like a part of him that grew there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red knight Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Well I tought it was a vest when I saw it first time... Fux is it a vest or not? GreetingsRed Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Yeah, he's meant to look angry because he's expressing anger. Heh. If he was stoic he would express stoicism.. or stoicness.. It's supposed to be his chest but what I was focussing on was his head... let's concentrate on his facial features, if you will... It wasn't intended to be a vest but I only took me an hour to do the picture. So what's bothering you with his chest is his large collar bone like structures? I put those on to ancor large neck muscles. I can revise those if you wish. Whether it's a vest can be a grey area since they tend to like to make surgical alterations... but it was intended to be full like a frog's body with a fish like skeleton. Heh. Very litte has changed since the last itteration, the expression is different. Note that he wouldn't wear this expression as a mask... it's meant to illustrate the versatility of the face I designed previously. What do you think of the over all volumes of the facial features? I'm more or less looking to focus on the facial configuration at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 (edited) Here's more complete version featuring such improvements as a round head... edit: The original post had the original picture, not the new one. I just changed the picture. Edited December 21, 2003 by fux0r666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 I like the concept. I'd counter the suggestion of making the eyes more passive by saying it has a good "you humans are so pathetic" look to it. If the torso is not showing a vest there, I can still see keeping the accentuated collar bone area by moving the shoulder joint higher, so the arm is coming out up towards the top. But my first choice would be to tone down the the vest and make it just that. The visible proportions look good, assuming the arms are cut off at the elbow and the torso is cut at the waist or so? Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I reckon the eyes look fine. It'll vary a bit when it gets modelled and textured anyhow. good work. My vote would be to nail this as the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Yup. It looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I agree with Drewid about this being the concept for modeling. I'll add it to the short list for concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 yup looks more refuined on the torso now, nice job. Are you using the arms and legs off of the first concept you did fux? or are you being brave and leaving those up to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 It's the same alien as appears on the picture of the naked one and the one in the suit only in more detail, presented differently. I'll do up the whole thing if you want to see more, which it looks like you do. For the next version is there anything you would like to see changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Less anger, less anger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 I think the anger Tenebrae is mentioning can be toned down mostly by making the mouth flat instead of turned down. Also the lighting on the upper ridge of the eye socket makes it look like a frown and therefore more aggressive, I think it won't be as pronounced with different lighting Tenebrae. For the extremities, I would keep the torso more upright rather than hunched, but I think your previous pics had that feel because of the neck angling forward. So that shouldn't be an issue here. I think your proportions looked good before, so long as it looks like it can hold the various weapons we find them with, it looks great. Looking forward to seeing it fux0r! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to make for certain that the reason the grey looks angry is because I was trying to demonstrate the face that I came up with earlier can emote and still look like a grey alien. It's not like the face he's wearing is a rigid mask. I can see the concerns about the grey looking angry- but please, what I'm trying to do is get feedback on the facial structure, not the expression on his face. The reason I came up with the face as it is is for xnet shots of dead aliens so the grey can look much different dead than alive. In the shots of him splayed open on the table he can look like his last moments were spent in pain or in terror, and in the other pictures he can look vindictive/indignant or indifferent (or have that certain look of satisfaction like in the last fmv of the playstation version when he has a muton blast holes in one of the world's leaders when you lose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 I like the eye structure on the pic, and was wondering what the web-looking bulge on the side is, a modified ear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Just an ear... an aquatic looking ear. It came out a little harsh in that pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 I don't really like that thingy on the side of his head. Other than that, however, the model is, imo perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Just to let people know this guy is being modeled, it's been a while since there were any comments. I'm basing his head off fux0r's last pics, and the body proportions off the earlier pictures that show the environmental suit. The little guy's at 1300 polys in this pic, I spent 900 just on the head. Compared to the muton model, it sounds like an awful lot, eh? I might go back in and reduce some polys, but there's a lot of bone structure in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Close-up of face: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 He needs legs. How many polies will they suck up? We don't want a 3K+ sectoid, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foozball Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Counldn't you get away with getting rid of the nose and just leaving it up to texturing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Wait, isn't is already textured? :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 HEH cool.That's a lot of polys in that face, but it would work OK in the pedia at that level. Do the high one first. It shouldn't be too hard to reduce the high one down to the game version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicAndy Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) the face seems a little too human, I agree that the nose need only be a texture (infact i'm not even sure the original had a nose, it was just flat wasn't it ) Also I think the fac needs to be wider at the top, more upsidedown-triangular Very nice though EDIT: alternatively you could cut the dome off the top like this: Edited February 16, 2004 by MagicAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 What are you talking about Facehugger, the Grey doesn't need legs, that's why I didn't do them... oh wait, it was because I wasn't done, now I remember. The final on this guy is a little over 1700 polys, which I agree will be fine for the X-Net and can also be reduced for the battlescape version, which I'll tackle next. The head's the main culprit, taking about half the total polys. Regarding the head's shape, there's a sunken ridge down the middle which makes it look like the 2 halves of the brain. Also the skull sticks out in the back further than a human skull, I tried to match the skull shape from Fux0r's pics above. Here's the final guy, I added extra polys at the joints for animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Added the Grey to the 3D model viewer, might show some of the details better there. My understanding was this guy would have a body suit on, thus the chest is a little square looking to match the fux0r's concept. I'm currently trying out the directx mesh tool to reduce the poly count, it's just a slider that increases the angle of attack allowed at verts, thus dropping the count by making the corners sharper. I'll see if I can find a happy balance, and fix up any spots which are hit too hard. Edit: worked just fine, it's now 1002 polys and looks very similar, just a little sharper around the eye socket area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foozball Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Looks good, B!My only gripe is that the legs seem a little too long. Bearing in mind that there's no visible scale there, that Grey intuitively looks like its about 5-6 feet tall. EDIT: Ok, maybe not SIX feet tall, but definitely 5 - 5.5 feet tall. Edited February 16, 2004 by Foozball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Looks can be deceiving: actual height 4'2", about 1.25m. Edit: and yes, the Grey will look cute holding a plasma rifle! Now I expect the next comment would follow-how does such a little guy carry a big gun and fire it, right? The truth is, a typical rifle doesn't weigh that much, and plasma weapons don't have to have recoil, so it's not an issue. This guy is the Calista Flockhart of the alien world! This pic doesn't show the modified chest, I made it wider under the arms so it doesn't look like a giant grabbed and squeazed him. Edit 2: I've edited the body, the mesh reduction tool took out my extra polys around the joints before touching the face, no good. So I redid the face by hand, and was able to get the alien to 1402 without adjusting anything else. The updated model's in the X-Net viewer now. Edited February 16, 2004 by Breunor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foozball Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Oh wow. That really puts it into perspective, doesn't it?I take back all of my 6-foot-tall-Grey comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelorol Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 The model is fine, apart from the proportion of the head. From what I have seen in the concepts, the head should be 1/4 or even more of the total height, instead of 1/5. That would make the legs and chest not so overly large...(All this is IMHO). By the way, very nice head modelling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicAndy Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 yes i totally agree with jelorol the head should be much bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 i think it should be bigger. I think it should be a head lower then the human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I think it should be left as it is. Except that it needs black eyes. Those are a classic part of UFO lore that we should keep. Heck, even the official xenocide signature banner sectoid has black eyes! And what are we going to do about textureing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo Dojo 58 Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I like the head as is. It makes the sectoid look like a minature man. If the head was bigger, it'd look more like a child... then someone gives them a name... and before you know it, he's graduated from college, and running for president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Bru is that the new version of the power armor I posted a moth ro two back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foozball Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Actually, I think that's what they're supposed to look like; like short, big-headed, uncaring, unfeeling, emotionless children. With big black eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Vaaish: I think so, I have 2 models, powerarmor and powerarmor_lo. This is the lo version, it's exactly 1500 polys. It should also be the version I've loaded into the web viewer. If it looks like the wrong version let me know and I'll find an updated one. Regarding proportions: I based them off of fux0r's concept with the body suit, I personally think the bobble-head Grey looks wrong, too cartoonish. It seemed that some liked the normal proportioned child look, while others liked the child with 'elephantitis of the head' look. I can rescale him to be similar in height but with shorter limbs and bigger head, but the big head=smart equation is also limited by the ethereals/Cloaks. It has a large head, but not much larger than this guy, and it can levitate to a small degree. So I don't think making the Grey body a life-support for an oversides head makes much sense, other than as a nod to the silly look of the original. Notice that if you took the helmet off the soldier, their heads would be similar in total size. If I keep the head the same size and reduced the limb length, I think it would keep the proportions I think it needs, but also have more of the cute kid look others are wanting. I'll make some variations and we'll see. Regarding the texture, yes I think we should decide is this guy a nude eunuch, or does he wear a body suit? I prefer the latter version, many ufo stories involve the "men in blue work suits". Not spandex, skin tight, but more like a flight suit. I think it would make sense that at least 1 other lifeform in the universe would feel it appropriate to wear something while traveling in space. We don't strip nude in the space station or shuttles, why should everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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