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CTD - XC 1 Gryphon


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#101 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 01:21 PM

IMO you should base any new idea's u want 2 put in on technology that is in testing ( or even rumored to be in a black project, I don't think there will be a problem with that ). You shouldn't just make it up IMO coz quite often it sounds fake. Arthur C Clark I think accidently invented the communications satalite with a short science fiction story, no offence meant 2 anyone but I don't think there is that level of talent in the CTD ( and few in the world at the mo 4 that matter )

#102 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 04:44 PM

I understand what you're saying, guys.

So here's going to be my overall edit. The engine and fuel storage systems are feasible, as well as the polymer hydraulic system (which is already being tested for robot designs by NASA). I will do minimal chages to that. But I will downgrade the mind control thing to maybe weapons control and sensor interface.

With regards to the infrared stealth, well two things. Since this is an interceptor, it is a defensive aircraft. So stealth takes a back seat to raw speed and sensor range I guess. But then again, hydrogen engines do not burn as hot as petrol engines although they do produce 3 times the power, so maybe infrared stealth will not suffer as much. I suppose stealth becomes important so that when the XC-1 is flying over other countries in an intercept, nobody will not try to shoot it down.

#103 Ancalagon

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 04:46 PM

Here is a summary of what should probably change from the last draft, based primarily on the conversation here.

1. no alpha brain wave thingy.

Here is a summary of what I think you might want to change

1. Avoid explaining too much about how they made di-electric polomers better, someone might try it -_-. (specifically I would cut out the part about silver ions, unless it is based on actual research)

2. Consider cutting the afterburners too, considering as they're ineficient (And efficiency is one of the things that makes the xc-1 supperior to other craft, right?), and PDE's should be able to propel a plane to at least mach 3 stand-alone.

3. Consider adding the capability to use data from base and satelite detection systems to help the xc-1 track planes.

4. I would make sure that "multi-phased variance Doppler receptors" actually exist, and I would(and probably soon will) do research on the topic.

Edit: there are new multi-beam doplers coming out that scan 4 times as fast as the old ones, so some sort of more advanced reveptors might eventually exist, however I would avoid calling them multi-phased variance doppler receptors since everyone who reads the ctd will know/think (depending on wheter they actually exist)it's made up.

5. I might also explain how you can fit a doppler into that airplane (last time I checked, doppler radar wasn't exactly aerodynamic).

6. Why don't you give buckyballs (another formation in the ashes left after fire) any credit? :rolleyes:

7. I would explain what ECM stands for(inside the actual ctd).

In general it should be a modern plane with a bit more technology.

These are all my own opinions and you are free to disagree with them ^_^

Edited by Ancalagon, 09 September 2003 - 05:03 PM.


#104 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:23 PM

Actually, they're pretty good suggestions.

1. The silver ion thingy... I'll do more research. but the idea was to increase the polymer's capability to accomodate electricity. That way, it wouldn't take incredilous amounts of electricity to make the polymer react. I could leave out that explanation all together, though. But I'll do more research.

2. Yup. Afterburners are out.

3. Very good idea on using ground and satellite systems for targetting. I'll work on that.

4. I've actually done research on dopplers and they actually use it on todays' aircraft. But that multi beam doppler, well, i'll do research on that.

5. What are buckyballs?

6. I guess I presumed what ECM meant.

7. As mentioned, I'm limiting A-waves to weapons control and sensor interface.

Thanks.

#105 Ancalagon

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:51 PM

First, buckyballs are spheres of 20-60 carbon atoms, I just though since we were talking about small carbon shapes I should mention them :D, especially since they both occur frequently in ashes. Also, I may have been wrong about multi-beam doppler, since I couldn't find information on it.(although I have to admit, I didn't look very hard)

Personally, I would leave the explanation out all together, but I really don't care, as long as there aren't any chemists playing the game. ^_^

Other than that, I have no complaints with it. Although you could put in some quotes or stories to make it more interesting, but I'll leave you to decide. :unsure:

Edit: no matter how many times I check the post beforehand, I always have something misspelled -_-

Edited by Ancalagon, 09 September 2003 - 07:59 PM.


#106 fux0r666

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 10:22 PM

Afterburners would be required to reach the speed that this thing is supposed to be able to go. If they had a hydrogen engine that could propell an aircraft to mach 3 without breaking a sweat, imagine what they would do WITH reheat. There are ufo's that can outrun the interceptors and since the faster they are, the better, I would make the thing sound as stretched to the limit as possible as far as engine performance goes.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#107 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 05:23 AM

I'd have 2 agree there, why are afterburners being left out? There's always a need for a quick burst of speed, even tho it eats at fuel

Edited by Jim69, 10 September 2003 - 05:24 AM.


#108 Ancalagon

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 07:18 PM

Ok, afterburners are in, although we should probably disclude information about speeds untill we know what they are. Also, Since modern PDEs generate thrust at mach 5, the interceptor should be able to reach mach three without afterburners, although it would probably "break a sweat". Also, 2 to 3.5 is a pretty darn good result from an afterburner, especially since the amount of propulsion required increases exponentially with speed (the SR-71 blackbird cost $100,000 an hour to fly, although that wasn't entirely fuel costs). Remember that afterburners increase thrust by 50%, not speed. 3 and 3.5 are more reasonable numbers IMO.
Edit: 2.5 and 3 and even 2 and 2.5 would also be reasonable numbers IMO.

Edited by Ancalagon, 10 September 2003 - 07:23 PM.


#109 Breunor

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 06:47 AM

I think we could just take the original flight speeds, and scale everything so that the XC-1's top speed would match the PDU/afterburner potential. The original game had it going 2100 knots, is that about mach 3? With standard engines, the plane can sustain mach1.5 at low power settings for sustained flight, so making the XC-1 fly at mach 2.5 in supercruise with PDUs sounds reasonable to me. It could reach a higher max speed for shorter bursts, or will the PDU be efficient enough to allow the plane to fly a longer distance at those top speeds? Does "thrust at mach 5" mean it still produces thrust, or just starts producing then? If it's the latter, we can say advancements have lower the minimum speed needed for the pdu to operate at 100% efficiency.

#110 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 03:28 PM

"thrust at mach 5" means that current PDE designs expel air at a speed equall to mach 5. Therefore, when you start getting close to that speed, the engine would logically become less efficient.

BTW: 2100 knots=2415 miles per hour 3888.9 Kilometers per hour. We may wind up increasing or decreasing that number. Actually that is probably a good speed for the plane to reach without afterburners. With afterburners, who knows...

Also we should really stop using mach numbers since the speed of sound varrys over 100 miles per hour depending on air density, humidity etc.

You should probably avoid any exact numbers in the ctd (at least until GG gets back)

Edited by Ancalagon, 14 September 2003 - 09:28 PM.


#111 fux0r666

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 03:55 PM

Mach number is used because of the size and shape of the shockwaves created by the aircraft varies depending on its velocity in comparison to the speed of sound. If you want to be as accurate as possible you would have to also put it's top speed at its optimal operational altitude as airpressure affects engine perfomance, friction and other factors. The SR-71 blackbird was capable at flying at speeds greater than 2,200 miles per hour (mach 3), so if the xc-1 is capable of 2,100 it is still not the fastest plane in the world.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#112 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 11:12 PM

But if the xc-1 flys at 2100 knots then it would be moving at 2400 miles per hour. I guess you have a point about the accuracy of speed measurments, BTW who is gonna make the official decision about how fast it's gonna go anyway?

#113 fux0r666

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 12:46 AM

My guess would be Great Gold will approve it and if there is any contention we will vote on it.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#114 j'ordos

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 04:12 AM

If we add afterburners, a nice feature could be that the pilot automatically decides wether or not to use them if a message pops up, "UFO-001 outrunning Interceptor-1", if he uses them he might be able to catch up with it again, but he won't have a second chance, while if he doesn't use them he could pursue it longer and hope it will slow down after a while.

It could also be made your choice, of course.
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#115 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 07:35 AM

Yeah, it would only happen if they have enough fuel left.

#116 warhamster

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 11:21 AM

I don't actually know how afterburners are supposed to work with hydrogen engines. In fact, I'm not clear on what after burners really are. I they some sort of rocket boost? Then does this mean we still have to pack petrol fuels into the thingie?

Anyway, we should use mach numbers because, this generally gives the reader a vague sense of how fast the thing can fly. Or at least they think they do.

#117 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 12:57 PM

Well, just say that the XI-1 (see xcom-xeno names dictionary) could have a secondary hydrogen engine that could function like an afterburner, via kicking in when toggled, but eating up more fuel. :)

I agree with you WH on the mach numbers though.
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#118 j'ordos

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:09 PM

I don't think having an entire engine as dead weight on a plane is a good solution, an afterburner means that exta fuel is injected in a second combustion room just before the exhaust, which gives a huge increase in thrust at an even greater expense of fuel. Having a third engine kick in as emergency power just adds too much un-used weight when flying with two engines.
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GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

Now presented in DoubleVision™ (where drunk)

#119 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:15 PM

Ok, then say it is a hydrogen afterburner. :)
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#120 Ancalagon

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:57 PM

I don't actually know how afterburners are supposed to work with hydrogen engines. In fact, I'm not clear on what after burners really are. I they some sort of rocket boost? Then does this mean we still have to pack petrol fuels into the thingie?

Here is a page about afterburners

A hydrogen afterburner would be feasable, since hydrogen is a very easily combustable material (like the kerosine they use in modern jets) and if it's suitable as jet fuel, then it's probably suitable as afterburner fuel.

#121 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 06:49 PM

However, if the aircraft was hit it would go up like a firecracker.

Edit:
I think even static electricity would be a danger. I would just say that it functions on a cryogenic fuel system and then not define what the fuel is.

Edited by fux0r666, 16 September 2003 - 06:50 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#122 Ancalagon

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:10 PM

In what way would it be more likley to go off like a fire-cracker then a kerosene jet engine? I haven't seen many space shuttles explode from static electricity, and they have hydrogen onboard, even the hindenburg fire wasn't started by the hydrogen onboard.

These people seem to think it would be feasable to build a hydrogen powered aircraft. Personally I would metion hydrogen since it has become synonymous with the future (I hope I used that word correctly). For all practical purposes, there's no reason to use/mention hydrogen, but it adds atmosphere to the game.

EDIT: are you saying the afterburners would be easily ignitable or what? Please tell me. :master:

Edited by Ancalagon, 16 September 2003 - 10:12 PM.


#123 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:32 PM

What I'm saying is that if an aircraft was hit in the fuel tanks full of JP-4, the JP-4 would leak out. If an aircraft carrying compressed hydrogen gas and it was hit in the fuel tank the aircraft would explode, or the fuel tank would undergo explosive decompression and ruin the airframe and completely empty the tank.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#124 Breunor

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 07:56 AM

Just say the fuel cells are reinforced, and the amount of force needed to damage them would also be enough to tear the plane apart. I agree with leaving out some of the details, the more exact you make the explanation, then harder it is to make it believable. Letting the reader fill in the details seems to work well.

#125 Ancalagon

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 08:15 PM

The Original did that a LOT of that.

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Thanks for the clarification fux.

I think we should just avoid the whole hydrogen explosion thing. Unless of course someone can think of a feasible idea for hydrogen storage. Like I said before, the only reason to put hydrogen in there is that it seems more futuristic, which isn't a necesity. The disadvantage is the whole explosion issue.

#126 fux0r666

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 09:01 PM

It was just a conceptual argument.. the purpose of it was to illustrate that the more detail you provide the more you have to think it through. Hydrogen engines sound wrong to me.

If they did mock up a working hydrogen engine next year I doubt it be on the battlefield in ten. They would have to be in a prototype being mocked up as we speak. NASA would have the first cracks at it.

I think that we can put in enough buzzwords that can be substanciated or at least cannot be refuted without going too dry on the content.

For instance: A cryogenic fuel system means nothing to people who have no idea what it is, but it sounds cool. Hydrogen engines are this technology you keep hearing about but it's never put forth to be particularly plausible or cost effective or safe.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#127 warhamster

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 09:35 AM

You're kinda behind on your info dude. Hydrogen is no longer in the conceptualiztion stage. We do have hydrogen engines in the working stages now. The problem with hydrogen has always been fuel storage, and even now, that is being worked on with results everyday. NASA isn't always the first to take a crack at tech like this you know. In fact, in Japan, there are hydrogen fueled cars that are already prototyped. Discovery channel did a feature on that already.

Hydrogen engines is not just a dream. We're really headed in that direction. And these are the reasons why...

Hydrogen engines produce three time the power of regular petrol engines.

Hydrogen is less dense than air. It disperses into the amosphere very quickly. In the case of a bullet striking the tanks, hydrogen will release into the atmosphere so fast that any explosion will be sparse and not as concentrated. As comapared to petrol that spreads and carpets an area.

As for unwanted ignition, that has a lot to do with how the hydrogen is stored. If you store it in conventional containers, then maybe there is that remote possibilityof ignition. As my research goes, metal hydrides and carbon nano tubes absorb hydrogen like a sponge. They can not ignite unwantedly. It takes a certain process to release the hydrogen into gas. I presume that released hydrogen is fed directly into the engines to minimize the chance of unwanted ignition.

Also, hydrogen produces lower heat radiation than kerosene, and produce non-toxic combustion products. You have more chances of dying from inhaling an unsealed container of gasoline.

Perhaps, fear of hydrogen comes from the images that have imprinted on us from the hindenburg accident. Again, let me remind you that in the hindenburg accident, 62 out of its 97 passengers actually survived. And we're talking about archaic aircraft here. No safety features, no safe guards for the ignition of the hydrogen, nothing. With today's technology, hyderogen is no more dangerous than methane from passing wind (ok, so i'm exagerating). But the truth is, hydrogen is safe. I kinda even think that the fear surrounding hydrogen is propaganda by the oil firms so that they don't go out of business. But that's my opinion.

Read up on these files for more info...

Attached Files


Edited by warhamster, 23 September 2003 - 09:52 AM.


#128 warhamster

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 09:55 AM

Second file...

#129 fux0r666

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 01:21 PM

Uhm.. didn't I say that Hydrogen engines are a technology that is present at points in time in mass media but is never presented as the next step in vehicle propulsion? I realize the work but they haven't ever had glowing press of the ballard fuel cell or what not.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#130 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 02:28 PM

How often do video games get press? Not very often, GTA is about the only one I can think of. My point is that the mass media rarly focuses on things that it doesn't consider inportant. The media, at first, ignored computers, and now look, virtually everyone has a computer.
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#131 fux0r666

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 02:53 PM

I don't think computers were ever considered unimportant. The media was there for all the big steps. When the Colossus went to work cracking german codes... when a computer first beat the reigning checkers champion in the 1960's... The media didn't realize the applications of computers that were to come 20 years down the road, but as soon as the association between theory and reality was clear (ie, the theory that there would be a computer in every home), the media would report on it. Media also fails us by overreporting or drawing unfounded conjecture. Does a central computer control every aspect of the house you live in? Does it sing you lullabies when you go to sleep and automatically time on and off all of your appliances? I think not.

However, we're appealing to those whose common knowledge is garnered by paying close attention to the media. There's a lot of hubbub about the leaps forward that the f22 has made with its supercruise capability and unprecidented engine power. It would not be so far a stretch to say that with the use of cryogenic fuel storage and a coaxial jet design that it could fly as fast as the blackbird. It's a much larger leap of faith on the part of the audience to assimilate hydrogen fuel into the equation.

There seems to be a huge difference in philosophy between the AWD and CTD. In the AWD, we're pushing for standard looking, military workhorse, tried and true, rough looking objects. In the CTD it seems you're going for the next step, bleeding edge, ultra modern, scientific conjecture approach. To put it another way, we in the art deptartment are striving for something that is very close to the reality of what is currently in service today so that the battlescape and initial X-net feels like home. That approach would also show a deep and apparent contrast between the human technology and the technology with alien components. The approach that the CTD is taking is no less valid but it runs discordant to the AWD approach in the over all essence of the things that are being described. Hydrogen engines and so forth sound effective but they sound just as alien to most people as elerium's magical gravity bending properties. In both those instances we tell the audience about how the things work and they go, 'sure, why not?'

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#132 warhamster

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 03:51 PM

Oh come now. People are not that blind to the possibilties of hydrogen powered engines. The technology has received sufficient press for people to believe that it is the next step in fuel. Most science and educational channels have touched on the subject. This goes the same for most scientific magazines. even Time has done its share of reporting on the subject. The fact is, hydrogen tech is not that alien. Most people know of the urgent need to replace fossil fuels as our primary source of power and hydrogen is simply the most feasable replacement. With all the hype about saving our planet running about, you'll have to be a hermit living in the mountains not to have heard of this technology. I don't really understand your insistence that the technology is too alien for people to swallow. It is just around the corner.

#133 fux0r666

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 03:59 PM

They are alien in the way that they are not a part of everyday life and exposure to the idea is not common or hyped at all... whereas supercruise was all over the place when america wanted to show off it's biggest and baddest toy along side the thrust vectoring. The supercruise bandwagon was well populated (and probably still is).

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#134 warhamster

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 04:30 PM

I'm sure that driving a billion dollar aircraft to work at mach 1.2 'supercruise' is everyday life. Parking must be a real beetch.

Keep it real man. People don't care what kind of new gadgets the military have. They care about getting to work. Saving up on gas. Breathing cleaner air. People are aware of these things. And they're definitely aware of hydrogen as the next alternative our dwindling oil reserves.

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 12:50 AM

I can see both sides on this one.

People are aware of hydrogen as a power source. Popular culture has it that that the military are working on all sorts of experimental stuff and that systems in the -current- generation of stealth aircraft (especially the bomber) may not be "standard", and that "trickle down" means tech filters through over the course of a few years.
Having x-corp use todays "top secret" tech seems ok if it has trickled down by the time the game is set.

The flipside is this. People will be playing in a couple of years time. In order to make the higher/alien technologies seem even more high tech and strange it would be good to contrast them with very ordinary human tech at the start of the game.
Starting in the very real world then drawing the player into a "Higher Tech" world only serves to make the change more compelling. Making the high tech "higher" and more alien.

So I guess the question is what tech will be common in a couple of years time.

How about having the standard aircraft being equipped with a hydrogen/oxygen injector into a standard jet engine in order to boost performance for short periods?
Like a NoS injection on a petrol engine. That ties a number of "ordinary" technologies together to give something believable now, (NoS boost, Afterburners, Rocket fuel) but still provides a springboard for "pure" hydrogen motors in the second generation craft.

#136 fux0r666

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 01:32 AM

I see where you're coming from but if that would mean they would need a seperate fuel system with an engine that could accomodate hydrogen fuel in the first place and would limit your amount of 'afterburner' time. Currently you can afterburn all you want to get out of trouble at the cost of a shorter flight time.

-
edit: I also think that that may be too much information for such a peripheral detail- but I do like that idea. I also think that the hydrogen engines are a good idea. I just do not think that they are in keeping with the theme of the interceptor and those craft that come after it.
- end of edit

And Warhamster, that last passage is about the weakest argument I have ever seen on this forum. Erecting a strawman effigy to pummel down is a textbook fallacy. I'm not attacking you, personally, by disagreeing with the propulsion system. I just think that hydrogen engines would necessarily detract from the alien technology, the feel of 'realism' you get from having a real life aircraft as the interceptor, and would be a untrue to the aircraft itself. If you can think of compelling reasons why they do not, feel free to share them. There is no need to insult my intelligence or bring yourself down to a level at which reasoning flies straight out the window and we begin arguing by sheer emotion.

Edited by fux0r666, 24 September 2003 - 01:34 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#137 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 06:26 AM

Ay Carumba! I don't see why hydrogen technology can't be used, as it would explain the high performance of certain items such as tanks, missiles, etc. If we switch from hydrogen power, then a great many ctds would need to be changed.

Hmm, for this entry, how about we say that the it isn't hydrogen, but we make up our own substance? Yeah, we could say that it is clean, efficient, and stable :). We'll call it fuxorium 22 :) Or anything else you guys like. :D
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#138 Breunor

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 08:34 AM

A great many CTDs to change? How long to reword? In any case, if you used a mixed fuel option like Drewid suggested, you don't have to create a 1000 word description of the engine:

"As military planners wished to use the XC-1's propulsion system for several decades without the concern of a single diminishing fuel supply, several different technologies were tested. The best solution was a modified fuel injection system which allowed X, Y, and Z to be used in varying quantities and fed into the engine as a powerful yet stable mixture. Not only can the fuel be tailored to provide better fuel efficiency or greater thrust on the fly, but it allows different fuels to be substituted in the future as better options present themselves. While the fuels are stored in seperate, reinforced chambers within the plane, the total fuel capacity is equal to a comparable craft outfitted with a single fuel system. This more advanced fuel system allows the XC-1 to operate at supercruise performance levels for much greater distances, allowing the plane to close with and intercept the smaller alien craft we are now encountering."

Substitute X Y and Z with what you want and you're done. I don't see why it has to be more complicated than that. If you want to flesh it out more for sh1ts and giggles you can.

#139 red knight

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:14 PM

As everything here is hypothetical, and that the hydrogen fuel is not only known now, and it is starting to show its potential after certain tests with carbon nanotubes. It is a posible outcome for technology 5 or 10 years from now... So it is completly feasible.

How many years the F117 had been flying and nobody notice it, after there where UFO show ups in Great Britain they had to show them to the public. So there is nothing that prevents the US or any other advanced country to be experimenting on hydrogen fueled aircrafts now.

So CTD dont worry on that now, if you find a better technology later and it really shows up better then we change it, but for now hydrogen fueled stuff is not crazy at all...

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Red Knight
Sourceforge Nick: flois - Federico Andres Lois
Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

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Pookie cover me, I am going in.

#140 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:16 PM

Thank you.

The head honcho has spoken.
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#141 fux0r666

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 07:07 PM

The f117 made the newspapers here in canada in the late '80's/early '90's.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#142 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 12:23 PM

MIcroprose did "f117a nighthawk" in '91 i think

#143 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 12:58 PM

In '91 the stealth fighter was unveiled, and gained publicity by bombing baghdad in the first gulf war.
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#144 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 02:48 PM

ah, must have been in '92 then. - sorry, topic is drifting

#145 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 02:58 PM

Anyway, I like warhamster's design, but it seems to be lacking fluff text. A simple "This interceptor is Sweet! I cant wait to kill some bugs with it!" would go a long way in my opinion.
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#146 warhamster

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Posted 27 September 2003 - 12:35 AM

They are alien in the way that they are not a part of everyday life and exposure to the idea is not common or hyped at all... whereas supercruise was all over the place when america wanted to show off it's biggest and baddest toy along side the thrust vectoring.  The supercruise bandwagon was well populated (and probably still is).

The reality of driving a hydrogen powered car to work is more of an evryday life thing than having my very own fighter jet, don't you think? The hydrogen vehicles I speak of are already on the roads of japan, albeit they are prototypes. My argument is not weak. It simply affects people more than you think it does. The world does not end in the US military. So open your mind fux.

As for fluff text, thanks for the idea, face. I'm still trying to come up with that quote. If you got anything on that, I'd greatly appreciate it. Something tinged with humor might be real nice.

'Boy, that bird can fly! Can I get one for Christmas?'

'That's something Santa can get me for being good.'

Just a couple of pot shots.

#147 Breunor

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Posted 27 September 2003 - 08:36 PM

Yes, I just read that Honda is testing a hydrogen powered car in California, so the tech is starting to be in many areas. As for a quote for the text, perhaps "This plane handles like a dream! If only there was a video game for flying this thing, I'd lose a lot of sleep off-duty!"

#148 warhamster

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 04:22 PM

ok. nth try. I've tried to simplify some of the text so as not too leave the entry to nit picky technical debates. But I guess that's what makes this forum fun.

Superficially like a conventional aircraft, the XC-23 Assault Raptor is anything but conventional, and makes use of the most recent technical innovations in a combat aircraft. Using the latest Earth-based technologies, it out performs all other previous designs by decades.

This is primarily due to technological advances in hydrogen technology, the development of Electro Active Polymers Actuators, and its advanced avionics and weapons systems design.

Late in the 21st century, it was already foreseen that the world’s dwindling petroleum resources would only last, at most 40-50 years (this ultimately led to the Gulf Reformation Wars). Thus scientists began experimenting on Hydrogen engines, and a little after the turn of the century, some working prototypes had begun testing. These prototypes produced 3 times the energy output of petroleum based engines of the same displacement.

Years of refinement and the use of Pulse Detonation techniques of combustion has increased this output twice over.

However, the real problem of hydrogen engines was the storage of its fuel. Hydrogen had to be kept at -253 Celsius to maintain its liquid state. And even as such, it required 4 times the space of petroleum fuels. This made Hydrogen based vehicles too bulky for practical military use.

The recent developments made in Carbon Nanotube technologies have made feasible the storage of hydrogen at atmospheric pressure and temperature. Basically, scientists have discovered a method of infusing nanotubes into metal hydrides for use as ‘tanks’. The concept of this storage system is similar to that of a sponge. The nanotubes infused into the metal hydride ‘tank’ can absorb up to 70% of its weight in hydrogen. Releasing of this hydrogen is achieved through thermal excitement of the storage system. This has eliminated the need for the excessively large tanks needed to store liquid hydrogen, and prevents unwanted detonation while the hydrogen is stored.

As such, the XC-23 is the first military aircraft to make use of the new storage system, and is the first production aircraft to ever use hydrogen engines.

Another technological advancement represented in the XC-23, is the first time use of Electro Active Polymer Actuators in an aircraft. Electro Active Polymers are manufactured carbon based materials that contract and expand in the presence of an electric field. Before the XC-23, previous polymers required ludicrous amounts of electricity to stimulate even the smallest movements. The key was to create a polymer with a higher dielectric constant. Scientists discovered that infusing a polymer with silver ions increased its dielectric constant by a factor of 746.7, thus reducing the required amount of electricity by the same factor.

Applied to the XC-23, this only means that the old hydraulic system of conventional aircraft has been replaced by electric wires and some polymers. This not only makes the XC-23 lighter and more space efficient, but multiplies the aircraft’s response rate to near organic levels. Combined with variable control configuration technology and the ability to Vector in Forward Flight (VIFF), the XC-23 is agile beyond what was previously thought possible.

The XC-23 uses advanced telemetric and a-waves technology to enhance its fly-by-wire flight controls. This makes the XC-23’s response rate 2/10 of a second faster than conventional fly-by-wire controls. This is also the basis for its advanced weapons targeting systems. Combined with its advanced phase variance rotating Doppler scanner and IR imaging radar systems, this gives the XC-23 unprecedented detection, identification and targeting capabilities. As such, XC-23 can track, identify and lock on a target the size of an insect at ranges beyond 75 miles.

Truly an impressive leap in military aircraft, the XC-23 is the pinnacle of Earth-based aircraft design, and will be essential in the battle to defend Earth from the alien menace.

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#149 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 04:38 PM

:)

On to the text itself. Intresting, I like it. But why did you go with the XC-23? Wasn't it XC-1? Other than that, some fluff text and a dev history would be nice. Ex: "This plane flies so well, I feel like im on a magic carpet!" and "The XC-23 had a long and troubled design process, it began as a black project in the late 20th century to vastly improve the F-22 Raptor then in use by the U.S. airforce. However, the necesary performance could not be achieved at that time, so the project was scrapped. Later with the invention of Electro Active Polymers, this high requirements of the project could finally be met. Thus, the XC-23 was born. Blah Blah Blah"

Edit: Oh yeah, you need an effectiveness blurb at the beginning of the entry. Otherwise mamutas will have a fit. ;)

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 11 November 2003 - 04:39 PM.

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#150 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 04:46 PM

I thought the f-22 didn't make it because it cost more, not because it was worse.