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#1 th15

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:58 AM

I know this must get annoying after awhile, but does anyone know that status on the next version? It's been pretty long since the last version and the developer changelog is no longer available (or at least, I can't find it) so we haven't had any news on new developments in some time.

Perhaps someone can clue us in?

#2 Blood Angel

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 01:18 PM

The official timescale of updates is, as far as I remember, whenever the heck Serge feels like it. Works for me.

#3 gamebro

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:30 PM

The official timescale of updates is, as far as I remember, whenever the heck Serge feels like it. Works for me.




Oh yeah huh? Then read this!!

posted on the front page----

"Tue 18 Jul 2006
New beta version: 0.7.1062
# Some bugfixes. Actually it is more like a first release candidate for the next version which should be released in about a week."



Well,,,, it is now AUGUST 30 and I am not sure, but I think this is longer then a week no? WTF


Every mod team, or private game development team goes through these stages of slacking off....... It is understandable, as they have lives and the do this in thier spare time......... My only concern is, will this be a common problem? Or will they get the geoscape up n running by the end of this year? :)

#4 Serge

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 11:13 AM

Oh yeah huh? Then read this!!

posted on the front page----

"Tue 18 Jul 2006
New beta version: 0.7.1062
# Some bugfixes. Actually it is more like a first release candidate for the next version which should be released in about a week."

Well,,,, it is now AUGUST 30 and I am not sure, but I think this is longer then a week no? WTF

Point taken, I promise not to make any promises in the future :)

Every mod team, or private game development team goes through these stages of slacking off....... It is understandable, as they have lives and the do this in thier spare time......... My only concern is, will this be a common problem? Or will they get the geoscape up n running by the end of this year? :)

Explanation is the following: unfortunately I don't have precise control over the availability of my free time so I can't ensure any work to be done according to any plans. If you feel it is a problem for you, there is nothing I can help. On the other hand you can view it at a different angle: the problem is not that the developers are 'slacking off', but 'slacking' are the random people around who are not willing to help and contribute something :)

On the other hand, release candidate is considered to be something that can be promoted to release without any changes actually done. So you have the latest version available for download, can install it and play. The only thing preventing me from promoting it to a release is that release version needs to have credits file (AUTHORS) properly updated, readme files checked and updated and a lot of other boring work done. That's something I don't have time for currently.

Also I'm sorry for not having enough free time to take part in long discussions, so that's probably my last post in this thread.
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#5 th15

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:52 PM

Well thanks for posting, just making sure there's still someone at the wheel. We appreciate all the hard work that you've put into this project and by no means do you have any obligation to us to put precious time into UFO2000. It's just been a long break and work has usually been quite steady.

I'd love to help, but being ignorant of LUA means that I can't do very much. I've tried providing in other ways in the form of the quickstartguide but frankly, I don't think anyone needs any work that isn't adding code to the engine.

Edited by th15, 01 September 2006 - 01:52 PM.


#6 MosFet777

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 10:17 AM

This post is primarily for serge and the other team members.

It's easy for us fans to continually bug you guys about the "the next release", but as everybody knows, you guys do have lives. I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say this, but this is an excellent project.
I just discovered it three days ago, and my kids and I have been playing since.
I have many suggestions, but it's unlikely that any are original.
I hope that all of the contributors can keep their enthusiasm(It can be very hard sometimes), and not lose enterest.

I don't know what I may be able to do to contribute, but I would love to get involved.
Where can I learn more about lua? B)

#7 gamebro

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 05:23 PM

Don't have time to keep up with these many long discussions and posts eh sarge????? LOL....... So few posts here each week that even I have no problem taking 10 minutes to read the weeks posts. :D
==================================



So there we have it.......... There is little to no progress being made......... How sad. Such great potential, struck down by lack of dedication\personel. This is like the research project--- Cydonia or Bust, and only 1 scientist working on it...... It litterally takes years to complete!!!!


You know sarge..... I had a dream 10 years ago when I first played through X-com for the playstation...... How incredible it would be, to play this game with a human controlling those alien forces... Building thier own bases, managing thier resources, launching various UFO missions which I (the x com player) would try to intercept.... Then to take on his snakemen\chryssalids defending the shot down large supply ship, in battles that mean something!
Is it safe to say that just about all X-com fans share my dream?

Well I guess this dream will never come true....... UFO2000, the last good hope I had for a online X-com mod, shall never be anything more, then a gloryfied version of X-com Email Battles....... Are you happy with that?...... I mean are you REALLY happy with that?!?!....... I am not, and how many X-Com fans would be?
What has been accomplished is good, and it breaks my X heart to hear this project will probably never reach a 2 player playable campaign state (or at least not for years)...


The Gollop brothers started something soo magical over 10 years ago, and never got a chance to properly finish it. This champion, this masterpiece, this legendary game, shall never realize it's full potential :(

#8 Hobbes

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 06:05 PM

Well I guess this dream will never come true....... UFO2000, the last good hope I had for a online X-com mod, shall never be anything more, then a gloryfied version of X-com Email Battles....... Are you happy with that?...... I mean are you REALLY happy with that?!?!....... I am not, and how many X-Com fans would be?
What has been accomplished is good, and it breaks my X heart to hear this project will probably never reach a 2 player playable campaign state (or at least not for years)...


I hope you will not be offended by my next words (and I thus apologize beforehand), but:

Stop whinning

Yes, it is very unlikely that a 2 player campaign will ever be implemented. It has also been a while since a stable version has been released and there's too few developers nowadays.

However, unlike nearly ALL X-Com remakes this project has never died. It is easy to download UFO2000, try it a few times and start complaining about no Geoscape, no Blaster Launcher, no Medi-kits, etc., etc., etc. but the fact is that it is still alive after all these years.

If all you want is more features constantly added then you are knocking at the wrong door. There's plenty of commercial games being released all the time, just go and get one.

And X-COM is dead as a franchise: all good things come to an end and UFO2000 does NOT aspire to remake the game.

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 07:18 PM

Don't have time to keep up with these many long discussions and posts eh sarge????? LOL....... So few posts here each week that even I have no problem taking 10 minutes to read the weeks posts. :D
==================================



So there we have it.......... There is little to no progress being made......... How sad. Such great potential, struck down by lack of dedication\personel. This is like the research project--- Cydonia or Bust, and only 1 scientist working on it...... It litterally takes years to complete!!!!


You know sarge..... I had a dream 10 years ago when I first played through X-com for the playstation...... How incredible it would be, to play this game with a human controlling those alien forces... Building thier own bases, managing thier resources, launching various UFO missions which I (the x com player) would try to intercept.... Then to take on his snakemen\chryssalids defending the shot down large supply ship, in battles that mean something!
Is it safe to say that just about all X-com fans share my dream?

Well I guess this dream will never come true....... UFO2000, the last good hope I had for a online X-com mod, shall never be anything more, then a gloryfied version of X-com Email Battles....... Are you happy with that?...... I mean are you REALLY happy with that?!?!....... I am not, and how many X-Com fans would be?
What has been accomplished is good, and it breaks my X heart to hear this project will probably never reach a 2 player playable campaign state (or at least not for years)...


The Gollop brothers started something soo magical over 10 years ago, and never got a chance to properly finish it. This champion, this masterpiece, this legendary game, shall never realize it's full potential :(

Je$us, you speak as if it was Serge's job to do the game! He did all of this in his own free time (along with the rest of the team) and I think you should be appreciative to even have what is available, which is more than any other remake or inspired X-Com game has ever achieved.

And like Hobbes said, stop complaining or do something to help, Serge has a life of his own and is not obliged in any way to dedicate all of his time to UFO2000; saying that it will never achieve anything else than a glorified X-Com Email is nothing more than useless negative criticism. If you'd like UFO2000 to become what you've dreamt of, then do something and help! Anyone can help in UFO2000, last time I heard, you just need the skills.

#10 MosFet777

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:25 PM

Is anybody around at the moment?
I'm hoping to get a little info about contributing.
The tone doesn't seem to positive <_< .
I'm still interested in getting involved if there is still something to get involved with.
This project has got to be the coolest project I have seen in quite some time.
I have a thousand questions about several parts of the game, but the only question I want to ask right now is what is the most critical areas of progress as far as you guys are concerned?
and how can I get involved? B)

P.s.: Kudos to Nachtwolf for the tile and map editors. ( I haven't figured out how to get a tile set yet, but I will.) :D


Hobbes, you here?

#11 MosFet777

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:51 PM

I don't know if my post are actually getting posted.

Is any of this actually showing up?

#12 Hobbes

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:31 PM

I have a thousand questions about several parts of the game, but the only question I want to ask right now is what is the most critical areas of progress as far as you guys are concerned?
and how can I get involved? B)


You can start by checking Mantis Bug and Feature Tracker

#13 MosFet777

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:33 PM

Thanks Hobbes.
I'll go there now.
B)

Well, Shortly anyway

#14 MosFet777

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:49 PM

Well, I kinda feel like a five year old in a genetics lab after my visit there.
Can someone point toward lua info ? :D

#15 Sporb

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 11:49 PM

some inconsequential whining.


Quit your bitching. All it does is show how impatient you are and possibly how little of a life you have! (lets face it, most of us can go and do somthing else instead of devoting every waking hour to watching for project updates ...)

In other news, im going to take the reports of overly powerfull explosives in the weapon set and tone them down. With luck itl make the set just that little more playable for those who find the explosives and throwables too effective

Edited by Sporb, 05 September 2006 - 11:54 PM.


#16 7Saturn

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:32 AM

Something I wanted to ask is, if there's a new version of the readme.txt, or the readme_de.txt? In case of only a readme.txt maybe I could translate it....

The version 0.4.0 seems not to be the last update :)

#17 th15

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:38 AM

It's unfair to serge and any of the developers to demand that they put in work. The current state of the game represents oodles of hard work and dedication as it is. It is a fantastic independent project and has gotten far, far further than countless other projects. On top of that, it has remained true to its vision throughout the process.

Honestly, other similar projects have gotten so diluted and sidetracked that they've lost the appeal of the franchise. They've so busy kibitzing with shiny new baubles that they've gone off track. UFO2000 however has stayed on the right path and has shown steady progress over the years. My original point is that we'd like to be kept in the loop a bit. Previously, the developer's changelog was available from a link from the website. That way even though we weren't getting a new release, we could see what was going on with the game and where it was going. When the website was re-written when lxnt died, this link disappeared.

And sporb, it's good to hear that you've finally succumbed to our ramblings :) Your weaponset has given a new lease of life to the game as the original weapons were flawed because they weren't designed for competitive play. Your UFO2000 set has added both variety and viability to the core gameplay.

#18 gamebro

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:11 PM

Wow sporb.... I am not “bitching”, mearly I am expressing my saddness. I am not calling sarge names for not building what I would like to see, mearly saying I wish UFO200 could be more. Such hostility, and why? Because I have a different opinion on what this project should achieve?....... I am sorry for wishing UFO2000 could do more. Please, by all means, let's just set our goal to---- X-Com Email Battles, and NOTHING MORE! Then make sure to flame anyone who dares to question why it can't be more.......
And isn't it getting old? Ya know,,, people who accuse others of not having a life all the time on internet forums whenever there is a disagreement? I will not call you names, but I will politely ask you to please be more open minded, as those insults are immature and old. Whether I have a life or not is completely irrelevant to this discussion.


Why was this project even started? Do the people responsible even remember why they got into this? Was the original goal just to make a better version of X-Com Email Battles? What a shallow goal from what I view as, very talented people. I played UFO2000 quite a bit again yesterday, and for all it's good points, it is a farcry from what it could be with even just a basic geoscape, with base management for both sides. Just having only battles is like playing a 1rst person shooter that has only 1 multiplayer mode with 3 maps---- deathmatch...... It gets old fast.

Why wasn't the geoscape started first?
Why can't it be worked on now? Is it really that hard?
Will it never really happen (2 player campaign)? If yes, do you care? If no, you are not much of an X-com fan then are you?......


Oh and to answer another question asked of me...... Why don't I just play other newer games instead of trolling around here?


1- I love the X-Com Series. I have played all of 1,2,3 completely through several times.

2- Name 1 other game, modern or past that is like x-com with multiplayer? Sure, you can find examples in jagged alliance, or laser squad nemesis...... But those are combat only, just like UFO2000 or Email Battles.

When I said--- “UFO2000, the last good hope I had for a online X-com mod, shall never be anything more, then a gloryfied version of X-com Email Battles”
I meant it. There is nothing out there like x-com, the closest ones just have the battles.... So please tell me, what game would you recommend I play again?


I am excited about UFO2000 having a 2 player campaign BECAUSE there is nothing else like it! IF there were other multiplayer games like this, I wouldn't be here. This is a gold mine, left untapped! Tis why I am soo depressed it won't happen here.

I know a lot of hard work has been put into UFO2000...... But I admit it is hard for me to appreciate this when we already have Email battles and laser squad ect ect.. The talent is not the problem with this project.... I think the focus is the problem.... Just what do you people want to make? A clone?

I am not sorry for anything I have said in this entire thread.... I am not going to be a conformist fanboy and kiss the proverbial @$$ of anyone, no matter how high and mighty they are. Why? Because as a long time x-com fan, I still have the dream.... Do you?

Edited by gamebro, 07 September 2006 - 05:17 PM.


#19 Blood Angel

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:57 PM

Are you going to pick up a keyboard and start coding?

What's that I hear you say? No?

Then stop whining at the people who actually *Do* go out of their way to code it for you.

kthx?

#20 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:36 PM

You obviously have no idea how hard it is to actually make a whole game, especially when there is only one single programmer doing it on his own.

You're not disagreeing, you're bitching about UFO2000 not being what it's supposed to be RIGHT NOW, which is unrealistic and pretty stupid.

The fact that it's not what you want it to be right now doesn't mean it won't ever be, just means that the programmer(s) have lives of their own and don't have to commit 100% of their free time to this.

#21 Hobbes

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:06 PM

I started this line of discussion, I might as well try to answer some of your questions.

Why was this project even started? Do the people responsible even remember why they got into this? Was the original goal just to make a better version of X-Com Email Battles? What a shallow goal from what I view as, very talented people.


I played UFO2000 quite a bit again yesterday, and for all it's good points, it is a farcry from what it could be with even just a basic geoscape, with base management for both sides.


When you say that UFO2000 is a glorified version of E-Mail X-COM (which I never played, but I am aware of what it is like) I take an issue with that (and a few other people on the UFO2000 community) because UFO2000 is also turn based but played simultaneously, which gives it a completely new experience. Battles can last for 1 or 2 hours without me noticing the time going by. Or you can have experiences like attacking a building and suddenly noticing the other player trying to retreat as he realizes the mistake he has made. Or fooling the other guy completely and moving through a direction that he doesn't suspect.

Just this kinda of stuff sets UFO2000 in a completely different league than E-Mail X-COM (which is does not have 3D, or customizable soldiers, or different weapons, or different maps) or even UFO Defense. You might rule Apocalipse, Terror From The Deep or UFO Defense but you will still get wiped when you are up against a veteran UFO2000 player.

Just having only battles is like playing a 1rst person shooter that has only 1 multiplayer mode with 3 maps---- deathmatch...... It gets old fast.


In addition to what I've mentioned above, I must say that you haven't played enough or explored the other options UFO2000 has. For starters you play the nearly all the maps for UFO and TFTD (if the other player has them, of course), or you can even go and check the UFO2000 Map Depot to download custom terrains made by the players.
You can also check the other scenarios than Deathmatch, like Search And Destroy or Assassination.

Why wasn't the geoscape started first?


Because the original developers were practical. It was easier to implement Battlescape first (plus it is a lot more fun than building bases, watching your funding and occasionally shooting down an UFO). Try only doing this on UFO (and there's a way to only play UFO without playing battles, if you are interested) for hours and see how fun it is.

Why can't it be worked on now? Is it really that hard?


Check this thread or this thread or even this one.

Basically MMPOG (or whatever they are called) fall into 3 different types: 1st shooters (which don't apply here), tactical battles and strategic conflicts. UFO is a mixture of the last 2 ones. I don't know any multiplayer online that mixes both. Like you said:

I am excited about UFO2000 having a 2 player campaign BECAUSE there is nothing else like it!


Thus, no one has a precise idea of how to implement such a system (not to mention free time to develop it)

Will it never really happen (2 player campaign)? If yes, do you care? If no, you are not much of an X-com fan then are you?......


For my part, I've discovered UFO2000 2 or 3 years ago and I've been playing it since then. I've played X-COM 1, 2 and 3 for 10 years and right now I have started a new game of UFO Defense a week ago.

And I am not concerned if UFO2000 has Geoscape installed or not, although it would be nice. Just playing tactical battles against a human player gives me a completely different experience than the original games.

But when you start questioning me (or others) how much of an X-COM fan I am because of this point... I would just say that it is better to think twice before expressing such an opinion.

I am not going to be a conformist fanboy and kiss the proverbial @$$ of anyone, no matter how high and mighty they are


One thing is to be irreverent (which is an attitude I admire), another is to be disrespectful of other people's opinions. And saying that we aren't enough X-COM fans or that this is nothing more than a glorified E-Mail X-COM is stepping on people's toes.

Respect others if you want to be respected (and this applies to ALL on this thread)

Edited by Hobbes, 07 September 2006 - 07:07 PM.


#22 Longshot

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 01:15 AM

I take issue with the comment about Jagged Alliance being little other than a combat game. For someone so steeped in X-Com it seems a bit myopic. In fact I daresay you spent less time playing it than you seem to have playing UFO2000.

Further, why is it that patting these guys on the back is so damn hard? I mean let's look at the reality of turn based stratgey of any kind right now:








You see that big blank up there? Yeah, thought so. There isn't any reality when it comes to turn based strategy unless you like Civ4, which is totally different concept. Or if you find Silent Storm more replayable than this. I don't at all. To me that was a "one-timer" type game and isn't the least bit interesting once you've played through it the one time. (IF you can handle the endless boredom all the way through).

But this game's replayability seems to be only limited to the player's imagination (speaking of which, maybe that's the real problem here). Heck I even crafted a 43k team the other day just to see what it be like (Yes, it was rediculous).

I found the map pack maps Hobbes pointed out earlier, and that only increased my curiosity. It's neat to play Seek and Destroy (Natchwolf, you are still one sexy bitch you know) with one of the maps that has actual UFOs on it. I like to play a map that has a mother ship on it, then have player 1 claim the ship and have player 2 attempt to raid it. Really, that scenario alone is worth about 100 replayings in my book, and I haven't even begun to explore many of the 30 or so extra battlescapes provided in the pack (I did have to download them seperately btw- It appeared the link with the one big download was broken-FYI).

Anyway, when has hasseling people who work for free for a game you have to pay nothing for ever gotten anyone anywhere? And why does being nice or "kissing butt" as you refer to it have to be something these guys have to suck up to your ill informed ranting to have earned? As you might notice from my member number I've been around here for awhile- mostly lurking, sometimes off doing other things, but I've never lost sight of what these guys are doing. And yes sometimes I've gotten impatient- but I worked on a mod before for the JA2 game you think so little of, and I know very well how many silly little things can happen. heck Urban Chaos (you probably don't even know what that is) almost got lost due to some tension among the developers at one point. Point is you have no clue what it takes to implement what you're asking. Not as if I do, but when these guys say it's too much to hassal with I'm willing to take them at their word.

Anyway, if you're so devoted to nostalgia why not go find a C++ complier, (or whatever the heck these guys use) and started working on your chereished geoscape yourself? Then you can answer your own question first hand as to how hard it is to implement. I can't program myself, but I had enough Basic in high school to understand what it must take to implement multiple decision making routines with an engine that is as outdated as the one these guys are working with and with the their only resourses being their own home pcs. It can't be pretty.

Essentially it seems to me, it's not the suggestions you make but the lack of respect you show the developers that offends everyone. As far as I can tell these guys (Hobbes in particular) handle all the redundant and/or unrealistic suggestions all us newbs/boobs can throw out with a helluva lot more patience than I ever would. But you still want to nag them about this game not fullfilling YOUR dream. Seems like you need more practice fullfilling YOUR own dream yourself, and less whining about the work and plans ahead of the UFO2k crew.

Anyway, nice job guys. Keep up the good work! This character aside there are many of us that are fine with the work you do, and the game as it is, let alone the improvements on the horizon. Yeah, I agree 2 player campaigns would be the cat's meow, but I understand it's simply not feasible right now, if ever. So I'll take what I can get and call myself net ahead!

Did I mention this is free?

Edited by Longshot, 08 September 2006 - 01:29 AM.


#23 Hobbes

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 04:58 AM

(I did have to download them seperately btw- It appeared the link with the one big download was broken-FYI).


Fixed. Thanks for the notice.

#24 Kratos

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:16 PM

It is pretty obvious why this thread is being closed, sorry for the inconvenience.