Fist

[Judge_Deadd]

You can fight with fists :boxing: if on the main battlescape screen you click on the empty hand window.

Attack effectiveness depends on the following:

1. Strength.

2. Number of hands inoccupied.

 

What do you think about it?

Edited July 18, 2003 by Judge_Deadd

[Nickisimo]

If you can hit a Muton full blast with a plasma rifle twice in the chest and have him just stand there with a smile on his face...I doubt punching him is going to make him very happy.

[Kenshiro]

Well, I hate to be the pesimist here, but we're talking about aliens that generally take two or three hits from an assault rifle before they drop. Now I know our guys are strong as heck to be able to tote around automatic weapons, but the numbers don't add up.

 

The G3 rifle exerts roughly 52,000 psi at the muzzle, at a velocity of around 3000 feet per second (sorry metric guys, don't know the conversions). The average professional boxer throws at about 150 pounds psi, with a velocity of around 80 or 90 fps. I don't know how the kilojoules work out, but I'd say fists just aren't in the ballpark.

[Breunor]

But Kenshiro, it's not how hard you punch (usually), but how quick you make the head jerk and cause brain trauma/knockout right? I agree that a muton would be near impossible for someone to punch and hurt. A sectoid on the other hand, I'd poke him in that big eye or kick him across the room. And it would be funny to punch a celatid and see it fly across the room to splat into a wall IMO.

 

I think it would make sense to be able to use the butt of the weapon in a striking attack though. It's true that it takes several shots to kill an alien, but how much concussive force to knock it unconscious? You could easily say you can't maybe because their brain sack and semniotic (I think) fluid work differently than ours due to different planets and gravity fields. Or you can say it's even more effective for the same reason. Each alien could have a natural armor rating to exceed, and your soldier strength gives a bonus for the attack. Exceed the number and they are stunned. Or make it a 5% chance etc. It would be fun for those situations where the alien panicked and dropped their weapon, you surround it and take turns throwing punches at it. Soon after, a mod is made that includes "b*tch slap" as an option...

Edited July 18, 2003 by Breunor

[Guest Jim69]

Well, I hate to be the pesimist here, but we're talking about aliens that generally take two or three hits from an assault rifle before they drop.  Now I know our guys are strong as heck to be able to tote around automatic weapons, but the numbers don't add up.

 

The G3 rifle exerts roughly 52,000 psi at the muzzle, at a velocity of around 3000 feet per second (sorry metric guys, don't know the conversions).  The average professional boxer throws at about 150 pounds psi, with a velocity of around 80 or 90 fps.  I don't know how the kilojoules work out, but I'd say fists just aren't in the ballpark.

What about that Drago from Rocky V? He could punchat 450PsI, so if we just get all agents on an illigal Soviet style steroid program...

[Nickisimo]

When I first started playing the game(when I was a wee lad...), I used to think that throwing your weapon at an alien could injure it in some way. ::

 

You could put a rifle butt attack in the game, but as long as it's consistent with the rest of the game. Basically, it does almost no damage and just wastes time. Now if the guns had bayonettes or maybe even built in stun rods...Now you're talkin'. It'd still be a whole lot easier to just shoot it, but what would be the fun in that?

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I don't know, beating something with your rifle could be actually pretty effective. For instance if you hit a sectoid on his big ol head, you could most certainly knock him down and probably knock him out. Etherials should be the same way imo, those two races have really weak muscles and I would imagine that their bones aren't too good either. So while beating up an alien in melee combat would not work against the more resiliant strains of alien, against those puny sectoids it should be devestating.

 

On a side note, it would be really cool to beat a sectoid to death with a steel pipe.

[Nickisimo]

I'd like to see a Blaster Launcher with a bayonette.

 

They still have the things to put them on the M16's...and how horribly redundant is that? Okay, my M16 is jammed, I'm out of pistol mags, no grenades or claymores, no one here to help me, I can't just run, comms are busted...Okay, I guess I'll just try to stab the guy...

[Simaldeff]

What about the good ol'hit on the face with back of the rifle and kick on the legs to knock that f*****g setcoid on the ground an then a finishing bullet behind those f*****g grey eyes .... YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH BloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDD

 

want BLOOD ahahahahahah ... hum sorry I lost myself for one second

 

plus some of the alien actually figth HTH why Xcom can't ?

[Breunor]

For instance if you hit a sectoid on his big ol head, you could most certainly knock  him down and probably knock him out.

 

On a side note, it would be really cool to beat a sectoid to death with a steel pipe.

:: I had to stifle my laughter here at work reading that! I can easily picture that... sectoid takes a shot at you, you pick up a frying pan and slap the little biotch across the face with it. I think it's lunch time and my blood sugars are low, I'm laughing at everything now...

 

I also agree that if cryssallids get a HTH attack, it should be easy to include it for soldiers too. I can also see a stun rod / bayonet option for the laser rifle, you could research that and it gives a reason to stay with laser rifles over plasma for example.

[j'ordos]

Or like in Incubation: that laser had two firing modes: 1) Kill, 2) Stun/Paralyze

I'm thinking that's not too hard to implement, but I do not know what it would do with balance What's the thermal tazer for then?

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, you could say that setting your lasers to stun causes them to burn out after a few uses, due to the radically different voltage required, thus you would have a reason to use stun prods because they always work. (Guns could jam or break in the field!)

[j'ordos]

Or there is a new factor to be added: overheating! And each weapon would have a different value for it, so let's say a laser overheats very rapidly compared to a stun rod........ but that requires some more work to give all weapons a balancing overheating figure

 

But maybe only lasers are prone to overheating, they don't require ammo, maybe they can be made somewhat stronger (more damage) but they can overheat, and when overheated you're unable to fire it

[Deimos]

Some of the points raised here are very valid, like throwing a weapon. Its a valid military techinque (especially for special forces) as the automatic reaction to having something thrown at you is to catch it. The SAS did it in the hostage situation in that embassy in the 80's. Gun jam? No worries just throw it at the face of your opponent and drag out that Browning high power. Triburst to the face. No enemy.

 

For me punching should be included if just for the comedic value. I would try it out on that Muton commander thats just took 4 plasma hits. You never know

 

I agree that for the physically weaker races it would be mucho fun to give them the smack down.

 

I can imagine the scene where the little sectoid thats been sniping all your guys throughout the mission runs out of ammo and tries to leg it, gets chased by some very annoyed operatives and they all give him a bunch of fives. Welcome to Earth indeed

 

I think though for balance issues we could drop the stun rod and make any wannabe pugelist put their weapons away to enable punching.

 

Ok I'm getting a bit daft now, maybe even have different TU options on the basic punch. Like Right hook. Nose punch. Headbutt?

Edited July 18, 2003 by Deimos

[Breunor]

Oh man, I can see the mod for this option already: You throw a punch at the fully armored Muton, and a new dialog pops up, looks like Mortal Kombat! You then have to beat the alien in this fight game format, and the alien's health/power is based on the speciaes. If you win, the punch lands and the alien is knocked unconscious. If you lose, the punch misses and any remaining reaction shots are fired by the alien. Or you could just hit/miss I suppose...

[Fred the Goat]

Oi, this is insanity. I love it.

 

Okay, I agree with J'ordos's self-criticism, lasers shouldn't stun, precisely because that keeps those clumsy tasers and stun bombs useful. Maybe bayonets and taser attachments should be secret weapons? As for smacking people, sure why not. As long as it takes a couple of hits to beat down even a sectoid (it takes a couple high-powered rifle bullets to take some of them down, right? I mean, they look puny, but they're freaking aliens). It should be a goofy, fun way to knock out a vastly inferior opponent (sectoid, maybe snakeman or floater), rather than an actual commonly used attack. It takes so little time to pull a trigger and put a hot chunk of love right between that little toehead's eyes, that pulling your rifle around and smacking the grey freak in the face needs to be a difficult, rarely used option. But sure, if you can throw your gun, you can beat someone over the head with it. Although I don't think tossing a gun to an alien should be an option. It's overly complicated and it takes away from the eerie magnificence of the bugs, IMO.

[Nickisimo]

Personally, I'd like to see a fighting system similiar to the old Blades of Steel nintendo game... :boxing:

[warhamster]

I wonder if kicking a muton between the legs will have any effect? hehe. but yes, i do agree that there should be some way to hurt aliens aside from uns and grenades. In TFTD, i remember that the lobster men can claw you down to great effect.

[Kenshiro]

If we must have punching, then I say we have:

 

BODYSLAMS!

PILEDRIVERS!

FLYING ELBOWS!

 

and of course

 

THE ATOMIC DROP!

 

Extra points toward a combat medal if you stun them by 3 count pin!

[j'ordos]

I wonder if kicking a muton between the legs will have any effect? hehe

I believe they're neutered...

[miceless]

Arent they genetically engineered? Doesnt that mean they didnt have any in the first place?

[Guest Jim69]

Depends, they had to modified from something, and they may have decided not to remove their knackers :o

[Deimos]

Perhaps thats why they're always angry? I know I'd be pretty pi$$ed if someone removed my wedding tackle.

[miceless]

If they were grown, they probably didnt have any ever. They might see the other aliens and wonder what those things are. Imagine the conversation where they asked.

 

This is a very strange topic...

[j'ordos]

They have there reproductive organs surgically removed, in other words: they are neutered

Edited July 23, 2003 by j'ordos

[miceless]

Ok, i wasnt sure if it actually said that or not and I was too lazy to check.

[j'ordos]

As usual... :wink:

[Nickisimo]

Why are they are purple in the autopsy? That always bugged me but I forgot to ask.

[miceless]

Yeah, i wondered that too. The freezer must have malfunctioned at the base...

[j'ordos]

I think they're stripped of their green suit Edited July 23, 2003 by j'ordos

[Aosar]

Why are they are purple in the autopsy? That always bugged me but I forgot to ask.

 

It's the 'skin' armor they have. Makes you wonder why they have the green suits then. Possibly for warmth...

 

In fact, I find the destiny of the Muton race rather saddening... Also I have wondered what would happen if from a alien base, during a X-Com raid, would be releaced some adolescent Mutons that had not jet been neuthered and implanted...

 

Also makes you wonder are the Mutons female or male and wheather or not they are cloned or some lucky Mutons can probreate(sp?) their race?! While the former is more logical the latter pleaces my sick and twisted sence of humour... ::

[Ancalagon]

melee attacks shouldn't be limited to chrysalids, reapers, and snakemen(see wild animals). all humans and aliens should be able to pistol whip people, and mutons should be able to deliver a lethal punch. Aside from being a helpful alternative to stunrods. It would be useful to take out that last sectiod if you run out of ammo

[Jesus Escariut]

halo style baby! depending where they are effects damage done, if you get hit with a heavy plasma stock from behind it can knock you out, but if it hits you in the face it just stuns you for next turn (like panic)

 

EDIT: i forgot all about the melee thread

Fists

Edited August 12, 2003 by Jesus Escariut

[miceless]

I think this and the other one are basically the same topic.

 

Merge gbm?

[Jesus Escariut]

i would merge fists with melee combat, since melee combat is broader then just fists (but fists covered some gun attacks but thats melee combat still) get what im saying?

 

melee combat should be the title for fists

[GDD]

well a head shot usually kills anything anyway, don't see why smacking them in the face is impractcial,

 

also enable to have daft games where all you can do is go round punching each other, judo chop!!!

[Guest alex the greater]

well i dount care much for punching i would like the abilaty to bash small oblects like hediges and fences and maby alow HWPs to smash thro walls and trees

[fux0r666]

Well, I hate to be the pesimist here, but we're talking about aliens that generally take two or three hits from an assault rifle before they drop.  Now I know our guys are strong as heck to be able to tote around automatic weapons, but the numbers don't add up.

 

The G3 rifle exerts roughly 52,000 psi at the muzzle, at a velocity of around 3000 feet per second (sorry metric guys, don't know the conversions).  The average professional boxer throws at about 150 pounds psi, with a velocity of around 80 or 90 fps.  I don't know how the kilojoules work out, but I'd say fists just aren't in the ballpark.

 

It's a shame kenshiro isn't here anymore...

 

>>>>

A ten pound weight equals the impact of a 9mm bullet when dropped from a height of 0.72 inches (velocity attained is 1.96 fps), and equals the impact of a .45 when dropped from 1.37 inches (achieving a velocity of 2.71 fps).

>>>>

 

It's not the force of the bullet that does the damage, it's the psi over the tip of the bullet.

 

But yeah, I dunno if punching these aliens would do much good... maybe the small ones... but I think that shooting them would be the better alternative.

 

I wouldn't even get up close enough to use the stun rod.. I'd use one of those shooting tasers... then I'd mace em... then I'd taser em again.. then I would mace em to see if they move.. then I would move in with the stunrod

Edited August 10, 2004 by fux0r666

[Guest alex the greater]

well a sceloid could lose a arm wressling mach whith a 8 year old (and the 8 year old would probably break the sceloids arm in the prosess) so an adullt human could seroysley ingure him in hand to hand combat the same probably goes for etheryals (but it would probably kill you whith its mind powers before then)

 

just a side note what about combat knives?

Edited August 11, 2004 by alex the greater

[fux0r666]

The sectoids have to be strong enough to use a plasma rifle. Those things looked pretty big.

 

Do they use heavy plasmas or blaster launchers?

[Tuoppi]

The sectoids have to be strong enough to use a plasma rifle. Those things looked pretty big.

 

Do they use heavy plasmas or blaster launchers?

Yes they do use them... But they were supposedly very light due to A-Alloys used. I cannot imagine a suctoid kicking trained soldier's arse in hand-to-hand.

[centurion]

But they are well able to survive a couple of shots from the rifle, so while they may not be terribly good at HTH, they can surely take quite a couple of blows. If we knew their anatomy, though, it might be possible to snap their necks or something.

 

Oh, and I can easily imagine a sectoid kicking a soldier's private parts faster than retaliation could come - remember their reaction ratings?

[Guest alex the greater]

well i play on beaginner but it usaly takes one shot to kill a sceloid and it seams unrealistic to make them tuggher in the harder difaculty leavals

[sir_schwick]

How about Pistol Whipping or Rifle Butting? I knwo this is not Halo, but that was a reasonable ability to kill aliens.

[Tsereve]

You'd think throwing a Blaster Launcher at someone would hurt them in some way, wouldn't you? And those blater bombs look kinda sharp.

 

I think the aliens should be extremely vulnerable to some sort of disease on Earth that humans have built up a resistance to. Like in War of the Worlds. . .just like in War of the Worlds. That'd be cool, a 7 Chrysallids surround your last remaining soldier, and start advancing. You fire your *rifle* frantically, but to no avail, it's just too puny and all. Suddenly, all of the Chrysallids leap into a lightning-quick pounce! You see your life pass before your eyes, they're miliseconds away from inpregnating you, then, suddenly, without warning. . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. . .they die from the common cold. You immediately start laughing, then a Snakeman that was 2 meters behind you the whole time shoots you. You die laughing.

Edited November 27, 2004 by Tsereve