Historian's Armory

Historian · February 10, 2004

These are some new weapon and armor types that I though. They are obviously post v1.0.

I will constantly update this list whenever I think of more stuff.

Sniper Rifles: These would be rifles that cannot be fired in auto mode and have very low accuracy in snap shot. However their aimed shot has high accuracy that goes into almost auto hit, when crouching. Their range and damage is very high.

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Sniper Rifle:

You have this from the start of the game. The agent equipped with this better serves in a support role. The rifle is very cumbersome and only useful when aimed, but devastatingly so.

Laser Sniper Rifle:

An advanced model of the laser technology that creates an extremely concentrated beam more powerful than any other version of the laser technology. The beam has also lower damage when fired as a snap shot because it doesn’t have time to charge properly. However when fired aimed, the damage potential is extreme as is the range.

Heavy Weapons: Other versions of heavy weapons used in the game.

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Gattling Laser:

A laser utilizing the “gatling” concept to fire very rapid shots. The weapon uses rapidly alternating capacitors to fire a quick succession of laser beams at a target. The are two possible fire modes, burst shot which fires 3 shots as usual and the auto mode which fires 7 shots but at much lower accuracy (only useful during close quarters). The beams do approximately the damage of a rifle.

Armor: These are new types of armor that have been developed by the xenocide scientists to combat different threats.

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Reflexive Armor (in case we have the aliens develop hybrid laser weapons)

This is an armor that has a very good ability to reflect laser beams outwards. It looks like a polished steel and it has a very good chance to avoid laser damage altogether. However, due to the nature of the armor, plasma weapons find no resistance to it.

Chemical Armor:

The counter to plasma weapons. This armor chemical substances manage to nullify and/or dissipate the plasma effects. The result is a very high absorbsion rate against plasma damage, but very weak against anything else.

Grenades

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Ion Grenade:

A Very effective weapon against mechanical items. This grenade deploys an EMP that has a very large area of effect and does 3 things.

1. heavy damage against mechanical units (tanks, cyberdisks)

2. chance of locking down advanced weaponry (plasma & laser. Not standard rifles)

3. (in case shield technology is developed) Shuts down shields for an amount of time

Concussion Grenade:

Anyone caught in the blast radius of this grenade is stunned and unable to perform actions the next turn, and also has reduced AP the turn after that.

Melee Weapons: Weapons that may only be used up close. They should serve only as a last resort or when the opponent is vunerable. Their damage is much higher than ranged weapons and they may have secondary effects.

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Chainsword:

A Devastating weapon that cuts through the harders of armor in a matter or seconds. It uses advanced alloys and power sources to achieve that speed and durability so it needs elerium and alien alloys researched in order to be produced.

The Damage of the weapon is double the heavy plasma but you must be adjacent to the target.

Shockblade:

An interesting design that delivers a powerful electric shock to the target upon the hit. If the target survives the damage, he may be stunned for the next round.

Shotguns: These are weapons made to be used in close range. They have only the snap shot option. They deliver a powerful shot however that may affect nearby targets.

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Shotgun:

The standard shotgun has an effective range that is half that of a rifle (beyond that, the damage drops to 0) and double the damage. When fired at a target, anyone standing adjacent to him is hit for half the damage.

Plasma Shotgun:

A more powerful version of the shotgun that sprays the target with plasma pellets. It has the same effect as the shotgun, only much higher damage potential

Autoshotgun:

A Shotgun that can fire in auto shot.

Alternative Ammo: These are different kinds of ammo for various kind of equipment. You know the deal already

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Shotgun Buckshot: Target Alien is hit and adjacent (or within one two sqaures) aliens take half damage.

Shotgun Slugs: If target Alien is is killed (or always) any alien within 3 squares behind the target is also hit for half damage

Shotgun Flechettes: Like Buckshot but also lowers morale depending on damage

Edited February 12, 2004 by Historian

`Puasonen` · February 10, 2004

I like the ION grenade, shotgun and sniper rifle.

Shotgun and sniper rifle would be effective at the beginning of game only? Sniper rifles aimed shot could do the same damage as laser rifle for example. That would be neat and useful for a long time. Shothun would make the same damage as a laser rifle too but sucks agains mechanical units and mutons.

Ion grenade would be cool too. Of course aliens need something too or the game gets unbalanced.

One thing I don't understand is why you would need an armour against laser. :huh?: Aliens don't use laser anyway.

Historian · February 10, 2004

One thing I don't understand is why you would need an armour against laser. Aliens don't use laser anyway.

As I said in the parenthesis, this armor would only be an option if we make the aliens develop hybrid laser weaponry or something

Trevelyan · February 12, 2004

Shotgun: "When fired at a target, anyone standing adjacent to him is hit for half the damage."

Why... of all things it should be twice the damage because close range with a shotty is gonna rip things to little bits.

Historian · February 12, 2004

I meant annyone standing adjacent to the target of the shot.

For example if you have 2 aliens standing next to each other and you fire at one of 'em, and do, say, 10 points of damage, the adjacent alien would also take 5 points of damage.

`Puasonen` · February 12, 2004

As I said in the parenthesis, this armor would only be an option if we make the aliens develop hybrid laser weaponry or something

:hammer: Maybe it's time to get my eyes examined..

How about making shotgun go through opponent and damaginf the one behind him? :huh?: Shotgun doesn't actually shoot a bunch of bullets to every direction. Those little bullets spread after the big bullet hits IMO. :huh?:

Historian · February 12, 2004

I don't really know how the shotgun works. I thought it did spray little pellets at the target. Does it have enough firepower to go through a target? Edited February 12, 2004 by Historian

LeFire · February 12, 2004

The real-life shotgun uses two (common) kinds of ammo.

a.) The buckshot round.

This one looks like the typical red-coloured cylinder you see in movies. Containing a small quantity of lead shot (little lead balls) that sprays the target when fired. Penetration is highly limited. Damage is caused over a wide area and scatters with distance.

b.) The slug round.

Its just a piece of metal of larger calibre than a standard pistol/rifle round. Heavy penetration and damage, but low range. Usually used to smash the hinges of a door before kicking it in during assault entries.

Uncommon ammo

c.) Flechettes

These nasty things are tiny plastic darts that are used in place of buckshot. Finned and aerodynamic, they cannot penetrate hard-type armour but may be able to defeat fibre-type armour like Kevlar and Zylon. Longer range than buckshot.

The round Nyyperoid is talking about sounds like a Glaser Safety Slug to me. Its a pre-fragmented round for pistols, comprising of a normal calibre bullet (say, 9mm or .45) that's hollow and filled with tiny metal balls. Supposed to act like a small shotgun shell fired at point blank range upon impact with the target. Believed to be more lethal than normal and hollowpoint ammo... but personally, I think its just commercial hoohaa as they tiny metal balls don't have the mass to penetrate deeply enough for a fatal wound.

Edited February 12, 2004 by LeFire

`Puasonen` · February 12, 2004

The round Nyyperoid is talking about sounds like a Glaser Safety Slug to me. Its a pre-fragmented round for pistols, comprising of a normal calibre bullet (say, 9mm or .45) that's hollow and filled with tiny metal balls. Supposed to act like a small shotgun shell fired at point blank range upon impact with the target. Believed to be more lethal than normal and hollowpoint ammo... but personally, I think its just commercial hoohaa as they tiny metal balls don't have the mass to penetrate deeply enough for a fatal wound.

I thought that was how the "normal" or should I say " the most common" shotgun bullet works. Thanks for the info. So the question is, would that typical ammo (point "a" from your post) go through an alien and damage the one behind him too? Or like Historian said, if there's two aliens almost side by side and you shoot at them, would they both be damaged? And from how far you should shoot to damage them both?

Edited February 12, 2004 by Nyyperoid

LeFire · February 12, 2004

Shotgun buckshot ammo would not go through one alien to hit another. However, as the dispersal pattern of the pellets looks like a cone, adjacent targets might be hit.

The distance that you should shoot from is dependent on the shotgun's "choke"... a measure of how the barrel's interior scatters the rounds. Shotguns used to hit fleeting weak targets like birds will scatter more to cover a larger area. Military shotguns will scatter less.

However, I did not train on any combat shotguns... My best guess is probably a human torso-sized spread at ten meters.

Historian · February 12, 2004

The real-life shotgun uses two (common) kinds of ammo.

a.) The buckshot round.
*Major Snipage*

b.) The slug round.
*Major Snipage*

c.) Flechettes
*Major Snipage*

And that my friend is called alternative bullets. Another subject I was going to revise on my armory. Since this time is as good as any, here's the deal

Shotgun Ammo:

Buckshot: Target Alien is hit and adjacent (or within one two sqaures) aliens take half damage.

Slug: Target Alien is hit and if it is killed (or anyhow) any alien within 3 squares behind the target is also hit for half damage

Flechettes: Like buckshot but also lowers morale.

LeFire · February 12, 2004

Hmmm... I believe that flechettes were designed to make it difficult for treatment, since the plastic darts could not be detected by X-ray. However, my info could be urban legend or outdated.

Buckshot: Target Alien is hit and adjacent (or within one two sqaures) aliens take half damage.

Little problem with that... If you fire a buckshot-loaded shotgun at a wall say... thirty meters away, a large area will get hit, but damage caused by the pellets might not be great. Some might even bounce off without cracking the concrete. Fire the same shotgun at point-blank range, you'll blow a concave hole the size of a melon, but the scatter won't be good.

So shotgun damage should be determined by range... A close blast would cause terrible damage to a single target. A long-range one would do only minor damage to a bunch of nearby targets (including friendlies and terrain).

`Puasonen` · February 12, 2004

If we think about your estimated spread,

My best guess is probably a human torso-sized spread at ten meters.

Shooting from longer distance than 10m would be very ineffective. Shooting nearer wouldn't damage adjacent unit. Maybe we shouldn't try to make it more complicated than it is.

Shotguns good and bad things:

+ Extremely high damage from low distances

- Low range

- Ineffective against mechanical creatures and HWPs

- 40% of time units go to single shot

- only snap shot option

That would be an excellent close quarters weapon but would suck in everything else. Just like sniper rifle would be excellent from long distances but would suck in close combat.

Historian · February 12, 2004

So obviously you Snipers carry a shotgun in their backpack

Robo Dojo 58 · February 12, 2004

What if the shotgun fired many normal bullets at once? The agent fires a shot, his direction is remembered. Then, a group of say, 10 "pellets",will be fired in that general direction, with a cone shape. All at once, of course.

If an agent gets a bad shot, all the pellets will still go in the proper direction, because the scatter is done in a cone shape. Each pellet will have a chance of doing damage, and multiples hits will get a bonus to go through armor, or the alien.

Historian · February 12, 2004

lets first decide that the shotgun will be included and then worry about the implementation of the shot

LeFire · February 12, 2004

The multi-shot idea seems pretty good.

Formerly MQ · February 19, 2004

Im by no means an "authority" on this subject, but I believe i can clear up some info on the "Flechette" round.

The flechette round was first developed for a standard rifle, more specifically guns that fire multiple rapid rounds, AKA machine guns. They had some very good advantages (and disadvantages) for the battlefield.

1. Advantages

- the whole idea was actually started from a looong time ago, mainly arrowheads piercing you guessed it - armor. Flechettes look very similar to an arrowhead. They were developed by both sides of the cold war factions mainly to defeat enemy troop's armors. Just like LeFire said, they are excellent against fibrous armors, but not so great against plate armors (ceramic and plastic/metal alloy plate inserts.) Those plates are not so common however and are only really deployed over the chest cavity, so everywhere else is basically fair game...

- They tend to travel more accurately and farther than bullets do, and don't require as much propellant to get the same operational distance.

2. Disadvantages

- as you can imagine in your head, an arrowhead shaped projectile doesnt fit too well down the barrel of a gun. Thats where plastic sleeves come in. A flechette round is basically a flechette projectile sandwiched between two sleeves that basically make it fit into a round barrel. When fired, the flechette round exits the barrel and the 2 sleeves peel off of it and fly through the air like 15 feet and then land on the ground as the actual projectile goes on its merry way. Now imagine you are in a war, and your buddy next to you is shooting off these rounds and those plastic things are flying every which way - its not a friendly weapon to fellow soldiers...thats why its rarely used. Those plastic sleeves will chew up anyone friendly around the front of the gun.

Believe it or not, the M1 Abrhams Tank round, (depleted uranium armor piercing) is a big donkey flechette round... The sides peel off and the main projectile is long skinny and one devastating hellova shell...

tzuchan · February 19, 2004

Hmm...

I've seen alot of weapon ideas, but nothing about type of weapons... Anyway, tossing out a few ideas I have, and how to balance them...

now, assuming a have a weapon for each type that deals a similar amount of damage, say 100 points, the damage points will then be spilt up into two different type of damage: Armor-piercing damage, ie, the ability of the weapon to penetrate armor, and damage power, ie the amount of damage it'd cause to the target it hits...

If the AP damage is equal to or greater than the armor rating, structural integerty of the armor is compromised, and is consider nonfunction(in other words, no more armor protection, even for future shots). 100% of DP is inflicted on target.

If AP damage is equal to 50% of the armor rating or higher, penetration of armor occurs. 100% of DP is inflicted on target, and target's armor rating is decreased by the same amount as AP damage inflicted.

if AP damage is greater than 25% of the armor rating, penetration does not occur, but 100% of AP damage is caused to the armor, and the target takes 25% of DP damage(The round is strong enough to knock the wearer around)

if AP damage is less than 25%, penetration does not occur, 25% of AP damage is inflicted on the armor, and 5% of DP is inflicted on target.

Using bullets, fire and explosions as an example...

Bullets would be 65% AP, 35% DP;

therefore they have a reasonable penetrating power(compared to other types of weapons), but won't cause severe damage to the target.

explosions on the other hand, would be 50% AP, 50% DP;

therefore they would cause less damage to an armored person, unless the explosion is powerful enough to severely compromise the armor.

Fire is an extreme, with 5% AP, and 95% damage.

This means that fire based weaponary can and will kill unarmored targets VERY quickly, but the slightest bit of protection(If we equal armor rating as fire protection too...) will cause fire based weapons to be ineffective(unless the fire is intense enough to burn through...)

using this ratings, I then introduce three types of weapons for the aliens, their rating, limitations and when they appear...

First of, particle beam weapons, comes in pistol, rifle and auto cannon designs. Capable of rapid refire rates(ie, auto shots), but have 10% AP, and 90% DP. Used when the aliens first appear, initially very deadly to humans due to the lack of armor.

Then when humans develop and start equipping Personal armors, the effectiveness of particle beam weapons drop rapidly due to the relatively low AP rating. pistol becomes obselete, rifles and heavy cannon face a severe decrease in effectiveness. Also, particle weapons are ineffective against power armor and flying armor.

Soon after this happens, the aliens than show up with railgun weapons comes in rifle and heavy cannon designs, not capable of auto shots, but 75% AP and 25% DP. Effectively counters personal armor, and enables aliens to stand toe to toe with power armor and flying suits, but due to the relatively low DP, is incapable of oneshot kills. Heavy cannon designs can deliver enough AP damage to effectively destroy armor(but might not kill wearer due to relatively low DP)

Then the aliens pull out plasma. HIGH damage compared with previous weapon types, 50%AP and 50% DP. Comes in rifle, heavy cannon, and auto cannon designs. Rifle and auto cannon capable of autoshots, but heavy cannon has 50% more damage than autocannon. May not penetrate power armor and flying suits on first shot, but generally, if it penetrates, kills.

Robo Dojo 58 · February 19, 2004

The system looks okay, tzuchan. But, the idea of dividing a weapon's power on AP (THAC0) and actual Damage seems entirely confusing. According to your system, a high powered rifle bullet can utterly shatter armor, if it's AP (THAC0) is high enough.

I think the idea of damage type vs. armor type would work much better. It'd be easier to manage, and easier to mod than dividing up weapon damage with arbitrary armor rules.

Extra layers could be added to the damage types: Ability to penetrate armor, ability to damage armor, ability to damage human/robot, stun, etc. They could be damage mods based on the damage type. They could even be unique attributes of the weapons, themselves(more versatility here, like combining stun, HiEx, and AP damage ).

I got the idea from looking at the Red alert units.dat(sp?) file, but I dunno if C&C follows the easy-mod system that the higher-ups want to do.

`Cpl. Facehugger` · February 19, 2004

C&C was easy to mod, well, if you know a little bit about ini files.

Robo Dojo 58 · February 19, 2004

Yes, there's nothing quite as satisfying as having Einstein on the front lines with his K9 cannon.

Well, maybe nuclear homing infinite range dogs could equal it... Don't build a single person. Ever.

Hellhunter · February 27, 2004

ok, my 2 cents here. Im no specialist, but a shogun (Buckshot) didnt "spreaaaaad" like this. A Shaved-Off shotgun does.

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