Moonsorrow Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 what freaked me out about xcom apocolypse was that all the aliens equipment was organic, including the ufo, shooting living guns and all...why not try the oposite for xenocide? here comes somekind of strange alien atacking you, they cut of his arm, replaced half his face and build explosives into him to make sure you would go down if you took him down, i guess what im trying to say is it would be cool to see the exact oposite of an organic alien squad comming at you blasting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 we are the borg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 [quote name='Cpl. Facehugger' date='Sep 5 2003, 10:15 AM']I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder.[/quote] I like the flooter opgrade alot. It would come after Ethereal? Followed by Cyborg Reapers? :happybanana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I was thinking that floater II's would come after snakemen and before mutons. I mean, you can only improve a floater so much before players start asking why the other aliens can't be augmented. They would be better than snakemen, but nowhere as powerful as mutons, which is as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 the March II Flooters should be incribly fast, and float like March I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Why would they be faster? Maby they should have a few more tus, but I was thinking they would get more health and armor. And you are right, they would float like floaters, otherwise they wouldn't be floater mark II's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsorrow Posted September 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I'm going for a look that doesn't necessarily blend metal and flesh but where metal and flesh are indistinguishable from one another.. We'll see if I can pull it off without looking like I've ripped off a certain swiss surrealist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 u mean almost like a gradient from flesh 2 metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 somewhere in between flesh and metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Well, u got a little bit of a headstart there coz the Alien Alloy's have a layer of organic tissue grown over the top AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 I had no idea about that, I just saw in the style guide that the alien tech is supposed to be sleek and 'almost organic looking' and decided to take it a step further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhamster Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 But the aliens already do have implants here and there. And since most aliens are genetically manipulated already, ther is minimal need for cybernetic implants, right? Anyway one of the entries gave me a mean idea. How about an alien that was created specifically to find your men, approach and explode. There was like that in apocaplypse, remember? It might be a useful side alien to the mutons. Really, there's a floating sack flesh and it's about to spit on me. I'm shaking the joints of my power suit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Those lil celatids were fun to use though. I control one, and he can take out mutons pretty well actually, iirc. But I would hate a alien like the popper, those things were annoyance incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhamster Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, I don't think the alien planned to be too friendly either when they sent out that chrysallid to do some kinky sh!t to your behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Chryssalids were scary, poppers were just annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 An annoyance but u always had 2 be on the lookout for them, u never know when 1 might be hiding round a corner. However, unless we have have the CQB system of apoc going around small corridors ( which I personally didn't like ) u would see a popper comin from a mile off in turn based so they would be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhamster Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, we could see a chrysallid coming in from a mile off. That didn't stop them from being effective either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Yeah, but chryssalids have a fair amount of health. Poppers have so little health that they die when hit with a rock. Besides, chryssalids were effective because they could turn your men against you, poppers would not be effective because they can only explode. Granted that is a big explosion, but, there is nothing to worry about after you kill the popper. If the chryssalid molested anyone before you waxed him, then you have to worry. (why wouldn't the mutons toss a 'nade instead?) Anyway, I'm just biased against poppers, probably the pain of capturing one of the lil blue b^stards alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhamster Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, we could make our version a thougher version. And like the cyberdisk, you can never capture one alive. You have to get info on it through alien medics. I guess I'm just too much a fan of goblin sappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I suppose that would work. Actually, I did get a cyberdisk once, It took like 5 guys with stunrods and a couple of guys with small launchers, and even then, I had to shoot it a bit with a pistol, but I did get the lil bugger after 6 turns of constant attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 [quote name='Cpl. Facehugger' date='Sep 10 2003, 02:03 AM']Yeah, but chryssalids have a fair amount of health. Poppers have so little health that they die when hit with a rock. Besides, chryssalids were effective because they could turn your men against you, poppers would not be effective because they can only explode. Granted that is a big explosion, but, there is nothing to worry about after you kill the popper. If the chryssalid molested anyone before you waxed him, then you have to worry. (why wouldn't the mutons toss a 'nade instead?) Anyway, I'm just biased against poppers, probably the pain of capturing one of the lil blue b^stards alive.[/quote] U mean u actually tried :o Yeah, I don't think Poppers would fit in here they are just a walking suicide bomb who are far more effective in real time, turn based they are so easy 2 kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, I always play realtime, because to me apoc doesn't quite seem right in tb. Besides, a suicide alien seems a bit too much like a suicide terrorist bomber to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 There's a line between living weapons and suicidal fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 How about suicidal living weapons? At any rate, I must say that poppers were necesary in apoc, because, in the beginning of the game they were really the only guys who could hurt you. Until the anthropods get disruptor weapons that is. Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think there should be any new robotic aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 [quote name='Moonsorrow' date='Sep 5 2003, 06:13 PM']Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien?[/quote] Well the borg ARE the quintisential melding of random metal extrusions with humanoid races. I guess we could also remember Quake 2, or possibly even some arcane aspect of Star Wars and AVP... Quite frankly I don't think hackjob combinations of clunky robotics and aliens very frightening. It seems to fall more in the pity category since the recipiants the modifications tend not to really fall in the category of true biological beings or automatons. Much more frightening is the enemy who sends heartless, cold, metal creations that have no regard for either their own losses or the lives of noncoms. And then what brings about hte fear is the cold calculation and total inhumanity of the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 The head and face are also the best way of displaying a frightening alien, along with speed and agility far beyond anything seen before. In films the two biggest, and scariest looking IMO, are Predator and Alien, simply because when you look at them you see no humanity in that. The Terminator metallic skeleton has the same effect, so I'd say that a mix between looking totally inhuman and cold, hard metal have a good effect. Incidently, altho the Alien films creatures actually didn't have metal bodies their exoskeleton has that metallic effect so a lot can be said for the success of metal merging with skin. Terminator 1 looked pretty damn scary for the time as well when he had all that metal protruding from under the broken skin, tho I was about 6 when I watched it so maybe it was just the times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Mr. Vaaish, you just decribed my concept for the muton perfectly. I'm glad to see at least someone is on my page, even if the exact shape this should take is up in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 (edited) The most terrifying enemy is the one you can't see coming... This suggests a logical course of action: the invisible or cloaked alien should be incorporated Edited September 11, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 How excactly would you balance an invisible alien? Hmm, It would have to have melee only, hmm, it still shows up on the screen, but there is no 1box like normal when an alien is sighted, it would be clear, to make it harder to see for the player... Hmm... Might be a good idea . Also, Imo cyborg races are pathetic, Look at the floaters. Or even the borg, they aren't that tough. Cyborgs probably shouldn't be kept (except the floater, because hes classic... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 [quote name='Cpl. Facehugger' date='Sep 11 2003, 09:02 PM']How excactly would you balance an invisible alien?[/quote] Motion Detector. Suddenly you'll want to research and manufacture that ASAP I was just kidding though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 [quote name='Cpl. Facehugger' date='Sep 11 2003, 08:02 PM']Also, Imo cyborg races are pathetic, Look at the floaters. Or even the borg, they aren't that tough. Cyborgs probably shouldn't be kept (except the floater, because hes classic... )[/quote] Go tell that to Terminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I never thought of the terminator as a cyborg. I always thought of him as a advanced robot wearing a human suit. (Complete with bodily functions ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 In the movie Reese described him as a cybernetic organism. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I think that the machine underneathe the skin sustains the flesh outside of it. I doubt there is any sort of heart or lungs or a curculatory system or nervous system that would be required to grow the skin and sustain it... it that the skin itself has machine parts encorperated into it to keep it alive. Either way it's a machine/organic interface, even if the primary component is the machine and not the flesh as is normally associated with cybernetic organisms. Is that enough to classify it as a cyborg? Was the kid in D.A.R.Y.L. a cyborg? It was a machine brain that controlled the flesh around it. They called those sorts of entities something different in that old game called Star Control... I think they were called something like Psytrons or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 It depends on the definition of Cyborg but AFAIK the Terminator was a cyborg, living tissue was sustained by blood as in the film there was blood when he sliced his eye out IIRC, which at the very least would indicate a metallic heart. The definition of Cyborg would have to be investigated to find that out. Robocop was a cyborg and I wouldn't want him kicking my arse much either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Robocop had a human brain inside him. It was a cop's I believe. In my mind, to be a cyborg, you have to have an organic brain, or be more than 70% organic. Terminator had living tissue grafted onto his chassis. I would assume that his computer brain handled the tissue's maintence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Yeah, if robocop was a cyborg than the Terminator and DARYL were reverse cyborgs. Heh... Unless cybernetic organism just implies organic-machine interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hmm, I always assumed a cybernetic organism was a robot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Cyborg and cybernetic organism are the same things, in case anyone in here doesn't know. CYBORG CYBernetic ORGanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 I suppose you are right. Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Robocop was a cyborg as well, he was a man that had machine parts. That is what is being suggested AFAIK, metal flowing into flesh parts which if done right can look damn freaky. I think Fux's design is a start towards that end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extralucas Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 [quote name='Cpl. Facehugger' date='Sep 11 2003, 09:51 PM']I suppose you are right. Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill [/quote] So maybe only armors than new alien races. Say, floater in armor which gives him more TUs, more health, and... Armor . Same thing could be used for sectoids, snakemans, mentioned earlier mutons... If CYBORG=CYBernetic ORGanism then many aliens are CYBORGS already, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 True, Most of our aliens already have cybernetic implants. Like reapers, celatids, sillicoids, mutons, etc. I really like the idea of armoring aliens, it would make them harder to kill, and it would still stay realtively true to the original. I mean, xcom can make armor, why can't the aliens? Maby only ranked aliens should be able to use armor though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extralucas Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Why should they tho? Who's doing most fighting around? Slodiers or this one commander guy sitting in the base guarded by many of those soldiers. I guess high ranked aliens should have armor which unablies capturing 'em. Just like arsenic poison hidden in a tooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extralucas Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 [quote name='Breunor' date='Sep 15 2003, 11:30 AM']Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!"[/quote] I guess that should depend on things like difficulty level and alien bases count (they can be factories too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Well, my vision would be a robocop chasis in a manner of speaking, but not in essence. What I'm going for with the heavily butchered races (such as the muton) is a fully fleshy individual with the relevent bits replaced with technology that is not flesh and is not machine but both at once. The relevent bits on the muton would be anything that helps it survive in hostile environments or combat situations, ie. Sensory organs, lungs, skin. The best way I can describe the look of the parts on that concept that noone like as looking 'too robotic' would be a microscopic polimer mesh. It would give the appearance of a malible(sic) (ie. Bendy and elastic) plastic. After all that I would make something up about its properties like it reacts to jumps in kinetic energy by forming chemical matrices that harden the armor and absorb energy for as long as the energy spike is present. It would also function as a sensory organ and would communicate the the muton's CNS... blah blah blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 so with the blended-in-ness of some of Gigers designs, but make the artificial parts more artificial then Giger, but less than the Borg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Yeah. Way less surreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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