18 replies to this topic

[7Saturn]

Well, would that be possible?

My idea is the following:

As the game has a adjustable limit of the line of sight (like with smoke or electro-flares), I could imagine to have some kind of flash-grenades in UFO2K. This idea came to me, when I tried to imagine, how to storm a building, like a storage-hall, when the walls are indestructable, and the opponent just camps inside it, waiting for you to enter (which probably will strike down your men by pure reaction-trigger). It could also be like the ordinary Grenades, with some kind of priming (or it just goes off the round, when your opponent is moving).F

[gufu]

If you can throw a flash grenade, why don't you just throw a plasma or smoke grenades?

[7Saturn]

Exactly. The opponent is blind for a small period of time, so lets say one round (you throw, nothing happens, you end turn, the nade goes off, the opponent is blind, he ends turn, he is still blind, you can kick his donkey, then end turn, everything is back to normal), but you aren't affected (of course you took cover hehehe.... ).

[Popek]

well if you tossed it within the radius of your own soldiers, they'd be just as affected.

[7Saturn]

well if you tossed it within the radius of your own soldiers, they'd be just as affected.

That's what I want to avoid. So there are two things that are necessary:
First, you need time to get in cover. So the nades should not go off instantly after falling on the ground. Its better, when they go off at the end of the turn (like the normal nades, when primed to "1").
And second (and that's probably the difficult part to implement): Cover should save you from the effects. So you throw them into a building. You get behind the wall again, then it goes of. Everything within a certain range that has no visual cover (like the walls), gets blind for one round (so also your men, if the haven't found cover).

What I can imagine is that there is no way to implement the "cover"-aspect. The last time I checked, the ordinary grenades went right through walls... Would be kinda problematic, if the guys behind walls would also be flashed... So in this case it would be exaxctly your mind.

Edited by 7Saturn, 12 December 2007 - 01:28 AM.

[Kratos]

Well, would that be possible?

Let me put it to you this way. If you code something, you are playing God.

[7Saturn]

Well, would that be possible?

Let me put it to you this way. If you code something, you are playing God.

I guess my god-skills are just to weak with C?

[JFarceur]

How does flash grenades work? If you just turn around (so you dont see the explosion), you should not be affected as well.

[7Saturn]

How does flash grenades work? If you just turn around (so you dont see the explosion), you should not be affected as well.

Easy. You prime the grenade, throw it, and after a small period of time (I'd say after the own round ends), the grenade goes off. All soldiers within a certain range are blind, for lets say one round (maybe it would be possible to just get the line of sight larger and larger the more time has passed, so that you are affected more than one round). Something I don't know if it is currently possible, is the effect of having cover from it. So someone behind a box or a wall isn't affected, even if the nade goes off directly behind the box/wall. As far as I know, the current implementation of grenades goes right through walls and other cover.

[feliciafan89]

If you can throw a flash grenade, why don't you just throw a plasma or smoke grenades?

Smoke affects your own visibility.

So does a flash grenade, but it also temporarily deafens people, too. (Not that that'd REALLY affect gameplay...)

[7Saturn]

So does a flash grenade, but it also temporarily deafens people, too. (Not that that'd REALLY affect gameplay...)

Yes, they do. But as you admit, this fact hasn't any use in UFO2K.

And I guess the main difference between smoke and flash is the fact, that the smoke always affects both sides and is a local penomenon, while the flash-effect is tied ONLY to soldiers who were "flashed", no regard, if they are beeing moved. So you can throw it in front of them, take cover, let them be flashed, and next round, when they can't see you any more, even if you're standing right next to them, you can kill them without the danger of reaction-trigger.

Edited by 7Saturn, 02 January 2008 - 04:19 PM.

[balif]

I think flash can work like standard granade but take time units (reserved) in place of hit points.

[7Saturn]

I think flash can work like standard granade but take time units (reserved) in place of hit points.

But this wouldn't stop them from reacting. So the soldier may have just, lets say, 50% TUs but if you approach him, he'd react as usual, just with 50% TUs less for the calculation. Real flashnades don't give you a chance of reacting at all. You can't see anything, remember.

[balif]

This is work like Defens tactic and counter defense tactic. Too destroy hard defnens (100% TUs)(good prepere defense) you need throw 2 or 3 flash. If you need fast and risk rush you use onle one flash.

But this wouldn't stop them from reacting. So the soldier may have just, lets say, 50% TUs but if you approach him, he'd react as usual, just with 50% TUs less for the calculation. Real flashnades don't give you a chance of reacting at all. You can't see anything, remember.

But the less TUs soldier have, the chance for rection is less so you chance for first shot is biger.
God throw flash (next enemy soldier) will take 60-70 TUs or (80%-90% his max TUs <-- this will by not promote high TUs unit in defense).

In real flash attack defender also have chance too avoid blinding if he fast take cover. My idea with TUs "damage" attempt imitate it.

Edited by balif, 05 August 2008 - 05:00 AM.

[7Saturn]

But the less TUs soldier have, the chance for rection is less so you chance for first shot is biger.
God throw flash (next enemy soldier) will take 60-70 TUs or (80%-90% his max TUs <-- this will by not promote high TUs unit in defense).

In real flash attack defender also have chance too avoid blinding if he fast take cover. My idea with TUs "damage" attempt imitate it.

OK, now I got it. Yes, also a possibility.

The only flaw with that way of implentation is, that they can see your soldiers even when flashed. So your opponent player knows where your soldiers are standing, even when there are only flashed soldiers, who weren't able to see them in case of "real" flash-effect.

[balif]

The only flaw with that way of implentation is, that they can see your soldiers even when flashed. So your opponent player knows where your soldiers are standing, even when there are only flashed soldiers, who weren't able to see them in case of "real" flash-effect.

Yes but if you want to get to bulding unseen you use smoke not flash. If flash limits only enemy range of sight nobody want to use smoke.

If flash could real blind enemy, somthing like minimal TUs for obserwation should by add to UFO2000.

[7Saturn]

Yes but if you want to get to bulding unseen you use smoke not flash. If flash limits only enemy range of sight nobody want to use smoke.

(For me) It's not a question of building unseen, it's just a fact, that a flash blinds you, nothing else. The reaction-trigger isn't touched a bit, the TU's are completely the same. Just they can't trigger on something the can't see at the moment (because they are flashed), and also can't see IF there iss anything moving. In smoke they can trigger anyway. You know the situation: You are wanderung through smoke, for one moment the enemy appears in front of you, the next moment you're dead, because he reacted... With flash this couldn't happen, and second thing is, you are not affected by the flash, if you were clever enough to take cover. Makes an attempt to capture a soldier much easier (I think there is a game-mode where you have to do so).

Edited by 7Saturn, 07 August 2008 - 03:13 AM.

[C.A.M.]

Wouldn't you be able to use a code similar to when you see enemies? It wouldn't be able to affect you through walls or when your not looking at it that way.

Edited by C.A.M., 01 November 2010 - 09:38 PM.