A Burning Question

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I always wondered in the original, why when a unit (human or alien) caught on fire, they didn't panic? Especially after 3-4 rounds...they're just walking around like "Ho hum, I'm burning to death, la-la-la".

 

I think it would be a logical gameplay thing to make any unit on fire for more than a turn or two panic. Maybe mechanical units (ala tanks, cyberdisc and sectopod) don't panic, but all organic units should.

 

Comments?

 

-The Captain

[Puasonen]

Good point, and makes sense.. It would also make flammable ammo more usable for a longer period of time. GREAT idea!

[miceless]

That would assume they always panicked, which might not be accurate. The best thing to do would be to do a test on their bravery and then, if they pass, they could do a drop-and-roll to put themselves out. Now, i know there will be some complications (nice thick armor, how does a reaper 'drop' let alone 'roll' blah blah blah) But there should be a way for them to be put out. Maybe a buddy can come up to them and pat the flames out.

[Puasonen]

That would assume they always panicked, which might not be accurate. The best thing to do would be to do a test on their bravery and then, if they pass, they could do a drop-and-roll to put themselves out. Now, i know there will be some complications (nice thick armor, how does a reaper 'drop' let alone 'roll' blah blah blah) But there should be a way for them to be put out. Maybe a buddy can come up to them and pat the flames out.

And now you should think about those poor programmers again who are supposed to do that. And I think the chemicals that set the fire up when you shoot with flammable ammo won't be putten up with just rolling a little bit??

"Oh my god he shot me with hi-tech weapon with flammable ammo!!"

"Don't worry, just roll a little bit on the ground and that's it"

Edited August 1, 2003 by Nyyperoid

[miceless]

And now you should think about those poor programmers again who are supposed to do that.

Yeah, but I might actually be one of those programmers!

 

And I think the chemicals that set the fire up when you shoot with flammable ammo won't be putten up with just rolling a little bit??

"Oh my god he shot me with hi-tech weapon with flammable ammo!!"

"Don't worry, just roll a little bit on the ground and that's it"

Good point, i forgot about the fuels. I as thinking more of the people who walk into a burning building, catch fire, walk out and then just walk around like it doest matter. If your hit by an Incendiary device then thats a different matter.

[mamutas]

How about jumping in the pool of water? Will it still burn?

[Breunor]

Would it be simplest to have that units morale drop a certain amount each round? If you have low bravery to begin with, then just a round or two makes you panic, while iron nerves lets you stand it for a while. I don't think you should be able to put it out, unless soldiers were issued blankets to wrap up with.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I like Bruenor's take on it. Have the flames go out normally (after a certain number of rounds), but each round you're on fire you lose 5-10 points of morale.

 

It wouldn't be too hard too code, either.

 

-The Captain

edit: typo

Edited August 1, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[tzuchan]

Don't forget hitpoints too! If we did forget, a very brave guy in a middle of a fire would be kinda like this fellow -->

[Guest Jim69]

Hitpoints go down ne way, so thats a given. Maybe it should be a little faster than in UFO, but thats quite far in the future 2 be worrying about now.

[Puasonen]

How about jumping in the pool of water? Will it still burn?

For example if your hand catches fire from napalm it stops burning if you put your hand under water, but immediatly when you take your arm up from the water it starts burning again.. So I agree with breunor, that's the easyest way to handle this issue..

[Jesus Escariut]

wouldnt it lower morale for the whole squad, or at least any soliders in the line of sight of their walking bbq friend? i mean if i saw one of my friends runnin around on fire it would lower my morale a little, i mean the smell alone.. ugh. .. but you could work it like a aura in diablo, any one within... 3 squares of them losed 10%morale burning guy loses 30%, and anyone in 10 squares (that smells or hears this flaming fool) losses 5%... just an idea :wink:

[Fred the Goat]

Good point, i forgot about the fuels. I as thinking more of the people who walk into a burning building, catch fire, walk out and then just walk around like it doest matter. If your hit by an Incendiary device then thats a different matter.

Yeah, there'd have to be a distinction between hit by the blast, and caught on fire because you walked through it. And for that matter, walking through fire should hurt you and possibly catch you on fire, not just standing in it for a turn. And freakout rates should be pretty high, remember each turn is 10 seconds. That's a lot of time for your skin to sizzle.

[Guest Jim69]

IMO, if I was ordered to stand in some flames I be like "Get fvcked" and run away. There should be something that at the end of the turn they just run away out of the flames, even if it means running straight into an alien.

 

Noone in their right mind would stand there and get burned. And if they are on fire they should just run around like a headless chicken without any input by u until they are out or dead.

[miceless]

Personally, assuming one didnt panick, I would try and put the damn thing out.

 

If you are covered with burning fuel I agree that might prove difficult. Also, what effect would armor have on this?

[Guest Jim69]

ud still be hotter than heck. And I wouldn't try putting out Napalm personally, dunno bout u

[miceless]

True, but theres a lot of protection from heat in the armors, according to the UFOpaedias.

 

And I would still try and put out napalm, if it was burning me.

[Guest Jim69]

I would imagine u would be too busy panicking. Napalm is VERY hard 2 put out, and burns u really badly. U would probably be running around like a headless chicken, u may think u would be rational now but I guarantee u wouldn't be if it actually happened.

[miceless]

In that case, why are we saying that the soldiers can not panic? If what you are saying is true they should panic automatically.

 

What im saying, is that if a soldier doesnt panic he isnt going to be thinking "Im on fire, but im ok with that. Ill just stand here like ive been told."

[Guest Jim69]

OK, I'm saying that they definatly should panic automatically. I understand ur point if they didn't panic, but who is seriously not gonna panic with napalm covering them.

[miceless]

Good question. I guess that depends on whether or not they are alive anyway.

 

I mean, if you are wearing Power Armor, could you stand there on fire completely unaffected?

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, since powered armor appears to be a sealed system, and it can resist high energy plasma shots, I imagine that they could just stand there and ignore the fact that they're on fire.

 

Besides, p-armor is built out of alien alloys right? Have any of you actually set ufo walls on fire?

 

Anyway, what happens if an alien is set on fire?

[Guest Jim69]

UR right, maybe fire effects should be completely taken off for all armour types?

 

BTW, the reason the UFO didn't set on fire was a bug, not coz of the alloys. U can still destroy the inner walls IFAIK, and the skyranger was indestructable as well.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I think that aliens basically ignored fire (although it did do damage).

 

Here's my proposal for fire effects. Note that this has nothing to do with damage!

 

Edit: Let me guess...you can't nest lists.

 

 

1. Unarmored Unit (t-shirt, sectoid, reaper, etc.)

1. Walking through fire - Morale lowered by 5points/turn
   
2. Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 20 points/turn
   

2. Lightly Amored Unit (Personal Armor, Snakemen, Chryssilid, etc.)

1. Walking through fire - Morale lowered by 5points/turn
   
2. Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 10 points/turn
   

3. Heavily Armored Units (Power/Flight armor, Muton, etc.)

1. Walking through fire - Unaffected
   
2. Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 5 points/turn
   

4. Cybernetic & Non-organic Units (Cyberdisc, Sectopod, Tank, Sillicoid)

1. Walking through fire - Unaffected
   
2. Catching on fire/being on fire - Unaffected
   

What da ya tink?

 

-The Captain

Edited August 4, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[Guest Jim69]

I think that aliens basically ignored fire (although it did do damage).

 

Here's my proposal for fire effects. Note that this has nothing to do with damage!

 

Edit: Let me guess...you can't nest lists.

 

 

1. Unarmored Unit (t-shirt, sectoid, reaper, etc.)

• Walking through fire - Morale lowered by 5points/turn
  
• Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 20 points/turn
  

2. Lightly Amored Unit (Personal Armor, Snakemen, Chryssilid, etc.)

• Walking through fire - Morale lowered by 5points/turn
  
• Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 10 points/turn
  

3. Heavily Armored Units (Power/Flight armor, Muton, etc.)

• Walking through fire - Unaffected
  
• Catching on fire/being on fire - Morale lowered by 5 points/turn
  

4. Cybernetic & Non-organic Units (Cyberdisc, Sectopod, Tank, Sillicoid)

• Walking through fire - Unaffected
  
• Catching on fire/being on fire - Unaffected
  

What da ya tink?

 

-The Captain

Snakemen should b in the heavily armoured section as they have skin that is very strong against fire.

[j'ordos]

Also, unarmored should lose hitpoints, or were you just assuming they would?

 

I agree with the Snakemen in the heavy armor, I'd even say Chryssalids too. Floaters could be light armored.

Of course, that could all be changed if we give each alien new properties and such

[warhamster]

Hmmm... we seem to have struck a cord here. I'm just thinking that certain people (especially tough SOBs in the movies) can keep focus on even when they're on fire, but instinctively, we will try to put out the fire. So here's how i think this should reflect in game play...

 

Morale goes down, and kinda fast, unless using armor. TU's and Accuracy should be penalized as well.

 

Should we put an option for putting out a person on fire?

 

As to regards to the alien attributes, can anybody redirect me to the threads where these are being defined? I have a bunch of ideas on how these aliens should be modified.

[j'ordos]

My guess is: there's no such topic as yet, so you might want to start a new one

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I mostly filed aliens by damage I remember them taking (from a heavy plasma). I just wanted to give some sort fof idea of what each category would entail.

 

I agree, we should probably start defining specific abilites and relationships of the aliens. Especially since I suspect they'll need to be written up in the CTD pretty soon.

 

-The Captian

[Magstar]

Heavy armor shouldn't have a morale decrease from being on fire. If anything, a person in an armored suit completely immune to fire ought to be able to light themselves on fire to scare the living crap out of the aliens. With that ability implemented, I'd never go anywhere without a burning legion.

 

Edit: To balance the morale affect, setting your armor on fire would destroy the armor at the end of the mission.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Magstar

[The Master Maniac]

I like Bruenor's take on it.  Have the flames go out normally (after a certain number of rounds), but each round you're on fire you lose 5-10 points of morale.

 

It wouldn't be too hard too code, either.

 

-The Captain

edit: typo

 

All I know is that I wouldn't be getting just a little depressed if I was being doused in burning flame. In fact, I can't say I know anybody who would, either. Catching on fire usually brings about an acute state of panic, unless I'm mistaken.

 

Sgt. Shlappy: "Oh dear, it appears I've been set aflame by a badly-placed incendiary round...this probably isn't good..."

[Paladin]

Yep, maybe the soldier is unharmed, but it sure is scarry as heck!

And it WOULD damage the armor... Maybe not to the point of destroying it though...

I don't think the aliens would be much scared of that, except for the inflamable Reapers of course They might not even want to go near the guy!! ::

 

Then again, I've alway found it funny that it did'nt cost anything (nor took time) to repair HWPs or armors... Maybe they were under Warranty... ::

Seriously though, repairs should cost something, especially on the crafts...

Then again, the Avalanche equivalent: Amraam missiles cost something like 300 000$ a piece anyway, not the puny 6000$ in-game... Compared to that, puny amno does not cost that much...