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XCOMUFO & Xenocide

Snd Ideas - New Way Of Composition


ATeX

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cut from an offtopic post of Crispy:

The main problem I see with compiling the soundtrack from the works of several authors is unambiguity of harmony - the tracks just might end up sounding different enough to result in heavy "jumps", making the score sound more like a mixed tape than a soundtrack.

 

The section I've been working on for planetview myself is only mildly similar in its approach and sounds like out of this world with respect to your mix, Mr_S. For that reason I propose one of the following:

 

1) pick a thematic "sound" for the game (the original X-COM didn't have this problem - all MIDI tracks sounded alike on any sound card because they always used the same instrument set; even if they might have sounded differently on different computers!). This would require an exemplary, post-processed track that everyone could download, along with general mastering options, snapshots from master and possibly track spectra, what specific methods were used to create the "feel" (lots of delay elements? specific panning patterns? reverb quanities for separate elements? effects used? headspace? bass-midtones-treble ratio? possibly specific instrument sets that were used, already compiled with a specific feel in mind?), etc.

 

2) unify some thematic elements - for instance two or three instruments that should be used in all tracks and later have all the tracks mastered by one or two persons to match the spectral and harmonic qualities and make any transitions (for instance, even when going from planetview to entering groundbattle) seem less harsh. Because - to me - if my lulling in Mr_S's planetview ambience was broken by a Blink 182-esque (or whatever) interception loop - and especially if it was done repeatedly -, I'd just turn the ingame music off and run WinAMP in the background.

 

 

The reason I raise this issue is that while the "mixed tape" approach might work for a movie, it will never work alone unless there's that "original" - usually an orchestral - component to intermediate the transitions. Games suffer from the same requirements. MIDI-based music was blessed for that very reason.

 

Then again, it could be a creative choice to have each track sound different, creating more of a varied experience. I'm pretty sure, however, that that would put more strain on the game's ability to immerse the player visually because we'd potentially be losing their focus each time the track changes.

 

Just my two cents...

 

 

That is exactly why the main theme was introduced. It has to be used in several tracks so that it creates more coherence/similarity/binding between the tracks.

 

Using the same instruments is not a complete solution to this problem as that instrument will sound different with each composer due to different samples, different mixing, mastering and so on.

 

The only real solution to this problem is to cooperate and create the tracks togheter. On top of that, to create a specific sound, only 1 member mixes and masters all tracks to their final versions. Who's in favor of this approach?

 

 

cheers,

 

Thomas

 

 

EDIT: added cut post from Crispy

Edited by ATeX
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Sorry for not being there earlier, guys !

I did not forget you ! :P

 

You're right Crispy. You've raised the problem soon enough. =b

In order to have a homogeneous game soundtrack, I think you're right. You have the composers on one side, and one or two maximum guys to mix all the songs.

Theoritically, this approach will give us something like "forged in one block".

But, as there is always a "but", I'm not sure that only mixing by one guy + repeating sometimes the main theme will give something homogenous enough.

I mean that each composer uses his own plug-ins, his own music editor, sequencor, sampler, etc.... And finally, there will be a big variety of sounds ! Don't you think guys that this will give an impression of "too many sounds, too many styles" ? Is that suppose for the mixing guy to have all the tools and plug-ins ?

 

To sum up, because I've just read Atex's post again and I see that all I want to say, he has just said it :D (I'm tired, sorry), for each song, the main composer should asks for others composers'help/comments. Then, once the song composed, one guy (always the same) should mix it and finally master all of them.

Edited by ATeX
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Ok, mix and master already approved by Mr_S.

Dimitris, Guileol, Crispy? Are you with the proposal?

 

Mr_S,

It´s not only giving feedback. What I meant by cooperating when creating the tracks, is that composers compose togheter. For example, someone does a rythmic part with synths that would sound nice with an orchestral palette. Another composer creates that orchestral addon. Both composers share only the mixdowns of their creations, best in low quality 128kbit mp3 to speed up the composition process, and the SMPTE timings.

When they decide the track has been finished, they both send all their individual instrument track mixdowns to the person that is going to mix and master them.

That would be the way to create a unique and strong characteristic sound for Xenocide with the right balance of diversity.

 

 

cheers,

 

Thomas

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I stand by the "sound" the main theme exhibits, Atex - it sounds good enough to me - even though I'm not entirely sure how you got that particular sound (personally speaking, it's a little different from what I usually go for, but then again, in the end, my "style" is no better in any respect). You've heard it, Atex - in the geoscape demo I sent you (it's a pretty good example of how I approach mixdown and headspace in general). I suppose "my sound" is a little more 'full' than yours, but that's probably all too subjective. I like dominant elements (be it a strong bassline or a solid melody line) - I just can't imagine myself creating all-out ambient music with too little for the ear to grasp on to.

 

Speaking from a personal POV, however, there are a few issues I'd like to address (with respect to the previous post):

 

1) I am no good at working off of other people's work - I've never even tried remixing an existing track in my life. And there's a reason for that - I want to change too many things and issues like when I can't access that single LFO that is responsible for a subtle vibrato, won't allow me to accept the track the way I'm supposed to, thus creating an internal conflict. I have no problem with people messing with (changing/improving) what I've created myself, though. Then again, this is a well-known typage - there's those who are best at coming up with new stuff and those who are good at improving other people's work.

 

2) a topic that I've done quite thorough research into, is mastering single mixes (not crossmastering a whole set of mixes, which is a problem with an entirely different set of complications), so I've tried quite a few approaches and the one that's stuck with me is "mastering during composing" - I hardly ever add any mastering effects to the final mix, other than perhaps a little bit of reverb, a compressor and a maximizer. This sort of dictates that when I'm done composing a mix, it will usually sound pretty much the way I want it to.

 

3) the third issue is with orchestration - I've done quite bit of music that stretches from jazz to ambient to house to d&b and I consider myself the strongest in melody-rich d&b (some call it soulful d&B), but never have I taken a crack at digital orchestration. For that reason I don't think I could pull it off - I just don't have the patience to make a whole bunch of natural instruments sound natural in a digital environment. I think I suggested this before, Atex, but I'm willing to go that extra mile as long as I don't have to do something that I know I will end up not doing well (just a little principle of mine).

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's written down somewhere, but I propose exchanging our system settings and methodologies to see how different our approaches really are should be in order. I suppose it's okay to use a free form, but I'll post mine as an example:

 

 

Sequencer: Reason 3.5 almost exclusively, although I have access to a Rewire setup with Cubase; I'm quite familiar with the product (Reason) - I'd say I know around 95% of all of its nooks and crannies, upsides and deficiencies. I'm a little less familiar with Cubase, but I can manage.

 

Mastering: generally Reason internal only (it really does sound better than you'd think if you know what you're doing), although I have access to Izotope's Ozone (which I value a lot more highly than all the random or bundled plugins combined that come with Cubase or Wavelab)

 

Hardware (home setup): I use Casio MZ-2000 for MIDI input (I play almost all of the melody lines manually with quantization and manual adjustment where needed afterwards), hooked to a Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Pro ZS. I don't have proper speakers (just the built-in ones on the synth), only proper headphones (Sony MDR-CD480) - so that's my biggest concern. I'm also aware of most of the problems headphones can lead to, although that hardly ever helps to avoid making a mix sound bad. Sadly.

 

 

 

 

 

It'd be nice to see what setups you guys are using - if some of us are using similar software, we could possibly better coordinate things...

 

Cheers

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Ok, Mr_S agrees. Altough changing someone else´s work is not what I meant. It´s about adding elements. The best explanation I can give is that my suggestion means:

 

to compose togheter as a music band would play togheter. Fill in each others space. Support each other´s compositions, leave headroom for the others.

 

Then, the way every instrument is recorded, mixed and mastered seperately in a band, somone does exactly the same, only with the composition instrument tracks instead of the band instruments.

 

 

I stand by the "sound" the main theme exhibits, Atex - it sounds good enough to me - even though I'm not entirely sure how you got that particular sound (personally speaking, it's a little different from what I usually go for, but then again, in the end, my "style" is no better in any respect). You've heard it, Atex - in the geoscape demo I sent you (it's a pretty good example of how I approach mixdown and headspace in general). I suppose "my sound" is a little more 'full' than yours, but that's probably all too subjective. I like dominant elements (be it a strong bassline or a solid melody line) - I just can't imagine myself creating all-out ambient music with too little for the ear to grasp on to.

I did not master the main theme yet. This is the sound of the sampled orchestra itself. No reverb was added. It will be mastered once ready.

I would also like every SND department member that would like to master, to join a small public "contest". This "contest" will determine who is the most suitable to do the job.

 

 

Speaking from a personal POV, however, there are a few issues I'd like to address (with respect to the previous post):

 

1) I am no good at working off of other people's work - I've never even tried remixing an existing track in my life. And there's a reason for that - I want to change too many things and issues like when I can't access that single LFO that is responsible for a subtle vibrato, won't allow me to accept the track the way I'm supposed to, thus creating an internal conflict. I have no problem with people messing with (changing/improving) what I've created myself, though. Then again, this is a well-known typage - there's those who are best at coming up with new stuff and those who are good at improving other people's work.

Remixing or changing other people´s compositions is not what I proposed to do. What I did propose, was to compose togheter like a band plays togheter. Fill in each others space. Support each other´s compositions, leave headroom for the others

 

 

3) the third issue is with orchestration - I've done quite bit of music that stretches from jazz to ambient to house to d&b and I consider myself the strongest in melody-rich d&b (some call it soulful d&B), but never have I taken a crack at digital orchestration. For that reason I don't think I could pull it off - I just don't have the patience to make a whole bunch of natural instruments sound natural in a digital environment. I think I suggested this before, Atex, but I'm willing to go that extra mile as long as I don't have to do something that I know I will end up not doing well (just a little principle of mine).

If orchestration is needed, people who know how to orchestrate will be best suitable. I think I´m stating the obvious, but that counts also for D&B rythms, synth lines, harmony sketches, hoobajooba loops etc.

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's written down somewhere, but I propose exchanging our system settings and methodologies to see how different our approaches really are should be in order. I suppose it's okay to use a free form, but I'll post mine as an example:

Good idea, here´s mine:

 

Software: Cubase 2.0, Kontakt 2.0, Reason 3.0, Absynth 3.0, EWQLSO Gold, Cool Edit Pro, Sound Forge, Waves Native Platinum Plugins, lots of free samples

and some things I might have forgotten.

 

Mastering: Waves Native Platinum Plugins

 

Hardware (home setup):

DESKTOP:

- 2.6Ghz

- 1GB RAM

- 200GB HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache

- M-Audio Audiophile 2496

- dual screen 2 times 21" at 1600*1200

 

LAPTOP:

- 1.7 Centrino

- 2 GB RAM

- 60 GB HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache

- external 250 GB HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache

- M-Audio Firewire Audiophile

- 15.4" TFT 1920*1200

 

MIXING:

- Behringer UB1204Pro Mixing Panel with 48V Phantom Power

- Denon Amplifier

- Tannoy Reveal Passive Nearfield Studio Monitors

 

INPUT:

- M-Audio Keystation 49e

- KORG SP200 Stagepiano, 88-note velocity sensitive, withhammer-action simulation and a professional Casio pedal

- one of the following months: Studio Projects C1 large diaphragm condenser microphone

 

 

 

 

It'd be nice to see what setups you guys are using - if some of us are using similar software, we could possibly better coordinate things...

 

Cheers

Reason would be the answer.

 

 

cheers,

 

Thomas

Edited by ATeX
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What I have :

 

Software: SONAR 4.0.3 Producer edition, Kontakt 1.0, Reason 2.5 (I never used it, when I compose, I lay directly down all the notes from my head onto the score), Absynth 3.0, EDIROL Orchestral plugin, and several others like Korg Wavestation that I also have as a rack.

 

Mastering: :(

 

Hardware (home setup):

Computer:

- 1.4Ghz

- 512 Mb RAM

- 80GB HD 7200RPM 8MB Cache

- M-Audio Audiophile 2496

- 21" TFT

 

MIXING:

- Yamaha AW2816 with CD burner and Phantom Power

- Fostex PM2 Nearfield and Midrange Studio Monitors

- Sennheiser HD 250 linear 2 headphones

 

INPUT:

- Studiotech MC61 + Korg Wavestation SR

- Roland KF90 Stagepiano, 88-note velocity sensitive, withhammer-action simulation

- Studio Projects TB1 condenser microphone

- Electroacoustic Guitar

- Bass guitar

- Irish low whistle and many tin whistles

 

 

 

- About mastering, joker, I'm not a pro for that. The best I can do is to compose. For mixing, I'm also quite far from being a genius.

 

- However, for orchestration, I can help you.

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I like the idea of a "mastering competition". Atex - will you be setting up something specific (for a specific date, for instance?; using the main theme?; if so, would we be mastering the end result or would you release the source file?)? Personally, I'd love it if it were after January 22, or better yet - in February - currently I have exams every three or four days and couldn't rightfully commit to anything.

 

I'd definitely be up for the challenege, though.

 

Cheers

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Ok, Crispy is in.

 

Mr_S, guileol, Dimitris, what about you guys?

 

I´m in the middle of a big job as well. Somewhere March would be ideal. I´m not sure about using the main theme for it. I´d rather use something more neutral as I have advantage over the other SND department members when mixing/mastering the main theme.

 

 

cya later,

 

Thomas

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Sorry guys, my knowledge and experience stop at the mixing step.

Mastering is a world I've just heard about it, never entered in...

 

java script:add_smilie(":wink1:")

 

 

 

Ok, Crispy is in.

 

Mr_S, guileol, Dimitris, what about you guys?

 

I´m in the middle of a big job as well. Somewhere March would be ideal. I´m not sure about using the main theme for it. I´d rather use something more neutral as I have advantage over the other SND department members when mixing/mastering the main theme.

 

 

cya later,

 

Thomas

:wink1: :wink1: :wink1: :wink1:

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Sorry about the long delay, guys... :( Just now i'm coming back to real world after the vacation break.

 

Here's my setup:

Software: Reason 2.5, Sound Forge, Fruity Loops 4.5

 

DESKTOP:

- 1.2Ghz

- 512MB RAM

- 60GB HD

- Crappy Soundblaster Live! + Live!DRIVE

 

INPUT:

- Evolution UC-16 knob pad

- And a CLASSIC Yamaha PSR-83(!) keyboard for MIDI

- Rigged Fender Squier + Dunlop Crybaby Wah + BOSS Turbo Overdrive + Ibanez TubeScreamer + Crate GFX-15 + NO DECENT SOUNDBOARD TO RECORD!

 

OUTPUT:

- A very trustworthy PANASONIC Discman headphone (you know i'm joking, don't you? I mean... about the "trustworthy" part)

 

I'm no good at master nor mixing, which leaves me with only with my crappy composing...

 

that's ME!

:puke:

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Ah come on guileol, if anyone would be bad at composing, he/she wouldn´t have been a development member of this project. We´re here to learn from each other and to have fun doing the thing we love to do, just as stated in the welcome letter.

 

Since Dimitris hasn´t showed in quite a long time, it will be a small (con)test between me and Crispy.

 

cya later,

 

Thomas

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