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#51 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 06:51 AM

about my demension theroy
this theroy isint mine i found it in varyous books and online
it sates that
if string theroy is true than thare are 10 deminsions not just 4
and prehaps psy uses the outher 6 we havent descoverd yet and then afects our 4 by "puling on the strings" so to speak
this can explain telaphaty TK and ESP (it efects the 4th demenson too)


i do not want to say psy is unekplaned
and i did not make this up by shoving together buzwords like supperstrings and 10 demesional
i just put what i found and beleve

about flameing
i seugest we stop arguing like 12yearold flamers and start debating like the educated pepple we are(nt)
lets look theis stuff up on google and poast our findings latter and no more flameing


lets just start accting like real scintests and actuly gatther evadence via google


-Alex
-aka Icarus
-aka Dalilad
-aka shadowknife
-ect

#52 Tuoppi

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 08:52 AM

Something i have wondered about in the original game, is how Etherials and Sectoids can use Psi without any device implanted. Should Grays and Cloaks have implants that strengthens the PSI attacks? I don't think so - personally. After all, the Cloaks can hover by themself. They should have enough PSI power alone.

Nature has created many amazing abilities and senses, and if evolution is beefed up with some extensive knowledge and time, it might very well be capable of such actions. No implants are needed, a biological highly evolved organ is better in any case.
(Some animals can stun their pray with electricity, some detect EM-field from nerves and some can create complex feromones to manipulate predators/prey.)

Also, how can it be, that the amplifiers can't amplifate (eh...) the brainwaves enough so that it is much better then the Cloaks? Any suggestions to this? What about that the amplifier needs to transmit an energi wave in order to reach the aliens, and something in that wave thing makes your psi propotional to everyone else?

There is the point that brute force cannot accomplish what accuracy does. Psi-amp has full potential to completely control any brains, but basically no-one can use it perfectly. Cloaks can hover in midair because of their massive brain-to-bodymass ratio. Because of their athrophied body they have to sustain themselves and their bodily functions with magnetic fields, and for that they have ferromagnetic substances in their tissue.

Human brains do not have EM-emitting organ, however they are capable of processing all the information needed->Psi-amp. Amp and human brains are so complex and sensitive combination that when energy needed for active telekinesis flows through them, you deep fry either one or both. (Brain electricity is some milliwatts, and power to raise a Kg is something way more. Calculate yourselves.)

IMO a good way to balance different MC-attacks would be to adjust TU consumption more than bare chance of success. Makes basic attacks useful even in the later game, and sounds plausible to me.

[Concept] A "brain crusher" weapon that is basically a heavy pre-programmed psi-amp. Unable to specifically manipulate or accurately target anything, its only purpose would be to overload any nervous system it gets aimed at. [/Concept]

lets just start accting like real scintests and actuly gatther evadence via google

:LOL: You DO have a sense of humour. Although twisted. (It was a joke, right?)

#53 mikker

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:34 AM

that braincrusher would be very effective ageanst grays and cloaks - but useless agenst the odd ones (Ventriculant and Silabrate), the mechanics (Artopod and Terror Disk), plus the brainless (Morlock :P)

However, it should be expensive, hard to research, take massive TUs, and make the user lose morale (why not?).

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#54 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:37 AM

no searously if you find info from varous sorces and cross reffrence we can be pritty shure its accruite

althoe reall scintests dount google thare info thay experament but we cant do any exparments as of now so lets just google

#55 mikker

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:45 AM

alex, everyone could put stuff up on the internet and say stuff. You can't see what is true and what isn't.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#56 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 11:37 AM

yah
the same goes for things you read in books and pepple tell you and things you see for your self
but if you can varafie info from vaouse sorces which you beleve than its "true"

and now for
Dr Icarus genaral theroy of evrything

nouthing is true ecept,
no matter how big you are thare is always something bigger (thare is always a biger fish)
no matter how small you are thare is always something smaller (supperstings are made of supper threads)
no matter how hidden you are thare is always something more secret (the Ilumanity are just pawns in the play of the aliens)
no matter how much you know all your throys will be disproven (newton was shure gravaty was a force)
just beacuse you heard something or evean saw it whith your own eyes doestn mean its reall (i havent seen god but than aggen i haven seen thoes "atom" thngs eather)

realaty is what you make of it

Edited by alex the greater, 11 October 2004 - 11:40 AM.


#57 mikker

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 11:56 AM

How can you say that magicians are true then? That goes ageanst your own law ;)

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#58 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 12:35 PM

i dident say magicans are real i sad geller is a "real" psycic
well as real as you or i am

cause we are all incide of hippopotmis dreem and the hippo is inside of the matrix and the matrix is a movie being wached by truman who is unaware that his life is a realty TV show...

#59 The Master Maniac

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:17 PM

Hi guys- I'm back from a loooooong hiatus induced by lots of work from Uni...

I like the idea of EM-based Psi. It sounds plausable and is a much more satisfying explaination than simply having it unexplained.

Alex: What people are saying to you is that you have no objective proof that Yuri is using psychic powers. You may believe that, but we don't have to work such beliefs into the game's fiction if we don't want to. Let's stick with things that are at least SEMI scientific, hmm? :)

Mind-Bending: Altering the way a being percieves the world. Such an attack could have various effects, such as identifying friends as enemies, screwing with visual/audial perception, etc. Basically, a quick and effecient "scatter" attack.

Pain: Tripping the body's pain sensors in a forceful manner, triggering violent bouts of sweeping, incapacitating agony. Such an attack can easily demoralize even the strongest, most resolved enemies, leaving them stunned and panicked. Simply a much more effective manner of the Panic attack.

Traitor: Altering social perception to "persuade" an enemy to view his comrades as hostile, and his enemies as friendlies. Such an attack is difficult to make, but the effects are practically irreversible and can cause various side-effects.

Fear: Amplifies the brain's self-preservatory complex, effectively thrusting the target into a berserk frenzy, firing his weapon with reckless abandon or simply fleeing in mortal terror. More difficult to incite than your standard mind-control attack.

Sightjack: Allows the stealthy entry into a target's field of visual perception, without having to force entry into the mind. The target shouldn't notice the intrusion, allowing the user to effectively "see" what it sees as it moves about. The effects vary depending on psionic strength and capacity, as does the duration of sight. Such an attack requires the user to get his/her bearings afterwards.

Brainwave Aura: Difficult to use, but effective. Allows the user to detect mental activity within a limited radius--a great way to detect a potential ambush, or see a limited distance in the dark when surrounded. It's even an effective means to get your bearings around sharp corners. The user must take a moment to rest to get their bearings after using the attack.

Mirage: Induces rapid brainwave activity in the target, the resultant effect resembling that of a hullucinogenic drug. The effects vary greatly, generally confusing a target. Victims may attack anything in sight, or even end their own lives. A nasty attack which takes time to perform correctly.

Seize: A mental seige on a victim from afar, this psi ability wreaks terrible havoc on an unprotected mind. Wrestling with the very fabric of a target's brain, the attacker can instantly render a living being unconscious with a single blow, or with some luck, even cause all brain functions to suddenly cease. A dangerous, taxing, and time-consuming attack that's unlikely to be used successfully without considerable skill.

Mind Control: Allowing the user to bend the mind of another being at will, one can assume control of a target's nervous system in the blink of an eye, controlling its every move for a slight duration of time. In this brief window, the creature is still conscious and aware, but unable to maintain control of his own body. The victim can be made to perform insidious deeds, all at the whim of the attacker. Should the controlled entity be killed in some manner, no harm comes upon the controller whatsoever. However, successfully pulling off this attack is difficult and taxing, significantly impacting the user's physical condition for a short while until adequately rested. The mental link may also be broken (?) should the attacker become incapacitated.

Just a couple things I had come to mind, there. Using the psi powers shouldn't feel like magic, of course--there should be some feasible way to explain them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hmmm. Some thoughts:

Traitor sounds very powerful, especially because it seems permanent. Perhaps it should temporarily block their faculty of recognition, making them shoot at ANYthing? Sort of like your Mirage idea? That sounds a bit more balanced. Call it "confusion."

Sieze sounds a bit like the fact mentioned elsewhere that EM could induce a heart-attack... Perhaps incorperate this with attempting to use "pain," so that when you do a really strong pain attack, they are stunned or even pdysically hurt? (call it psychosomatic injury :D ) Also, a reasonably sucessful pain attack would make the victim drop their weapons. If I were in pain, I'd not hang onto my gun, I'd be clutching my head/stomach/wherever.

Fear is obviosly the panic attack under a different name. All good, except that unlike the original game, you shouldn't spin around from a fear attack. Instead, they should run towards their nearest squad member, fire randomly into open spaces, or at squad members they can't see well. (Getting paniced in your ship would not cause you to shoot at your own suad members, more likely that you simply collapse and are unable to move)

Brainwave Aura sounds like some sort of Psi-detection- This would be a novel way to know if you were fighting psi-capable aliens, too- presumably they'd show up as more concentrated areas of psi power. :)

Sightjack sounds really cyberpunk and doesn't fit with the simple tone of the others... but I can't think of a better name anyway. It's pretty cool, and it's actually part of the reason I did so much MC in UFO and TFTD- more effective scouting. Using Psi-detection and this sightjack ability in combination could be really effective and help you fight your battles at longer range, and past the cover of UFO walls, too. Nifty. It would also allow us to make MC require a much more skilled psi than it did in UFO.

Mind-control: We've heard this one before. All cool.

What would be really good though, is if you could reaction-shot with Psi. For example, if an alien attempts to psi-attack a soldier with an amp, or anyone in their field of vision, they could attempt to block that attack, or if they've got really good reactions, fire off an attack of their own at the alien afterwards. This way, one well-trained psi who is NOT using his abilities could keep your whole squad protected, and the presence of a powerful enemy psi-user would force you to rely on other methods of attack, or a decisive attack on their location BEFORE sweeping the map.

I think that a defensive option along with psis being able to "see" other psis would make a lot of the problems that people have with Psi in UFO go away :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah--thought I'd mention Mind Control in there, somewhere, just so somebody didn't think I'd forgotten about one. ^_^

I figured the name "sightjack" didn't sound too fitting, but it was all I could come up with at the moment. Perhaps "ghosting" (yuck) or "projected perception" would sound a wee bit better. I do like the idea of having another step to take on the road to MC, as you say, and even after your guys are skilled enough to use MC rather well, it wouldn't hurt to fall back on the more stealthy approach, would it? Possible advantages would be to see troop movement without tipping enemies off to your intrusion by firing at your "host," and you could watch as he takes his next turn. :sly:

I was kind of floating the "pain" attack myself, but I do like the devious nature of it. Sounds more aggressive and devastating than a panic attack, or what have you. Seperating it from a panic psi-attack would be actual stamina decrease (?) or extreme demoralization, coupled with a more effective stun.

My favorite of the list so far is Brainwave Aura--it sounds like a really useful ability that's not only effective, but not too out of place or unbelievable. Also, it's, for the lack of a better word, "fair." The range would be limited, but good enough to see a bit around your squad. I particularly like your suggestion that more psi-capable beings would show up brighter. Very cool. If there's one ability I'd like to see make the cut, it would have to be this one. Doesn't sound too magic-y or unpractical, and it's actually fairly interesting (or at least I think so).

Hmm, as for "traitor," I figured it'd be some way to step up the panic attack a bit. Maybe a long-lasting effect would be going a bit too far, but heck, it's not like an alien shooting at his buddies was going to last long, anyway. Kidding aside, perhaps there would be some way to temporarily alter an enemy's perception--maybe for a single turn? It'd be a step down from Mind Control and a bit easier to perform. Er, we could just axe the idea altogether, too....

As for "mirage--" I don't know, doesn't "confusion" sound a bit too "Final Fantasy" to you? I don't particularly like the name "mirage" myself, but I do like the idea of what it does. C'mon, we need a wildcard attack in there somewhere!

#60 Paladin

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 06:21 AM

Gee, how LONG this post has become... I go out for a weekend and here you are... :D

Alex: Stop whining and contradicting yourself and bothering everyone by presenting your beliefs as facts, because they're not. I've known first hand that an illusionnist can be pretty impressive, but it's ALWAYS a trick... You'd be surprised how simple tricks can be convincing sometimes, but you'd need objectivity for that.

Everyone else: :beer:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#61 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 01:06 PM

first thats flameing
and second a stage magican wount insinst he has reall powers
geller does

i do not beleave in magic but i do beleve in TK geller has been able to bend spoons in uncontrolable inviroments

also geller has telaphaty to

BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!


the point is psy has nouthing to do whith electromagnatisim
or else it would have been proven a long time aggo

Edited by alex the greater, 12 October 2004 - 01:08 PM.


#62 Hailfire22

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 02:18 PM

My favorite of the list so far is Brainwave Aura--it sounds like a really useful ability that's not only effective, but not too out of place or unbelievable. Also, it's, for the lack of a better word, "fair." The range would be limited, but good enough to see a bit around your squad. I particularly like your suggestion that more psi-capable beings would show up brighter. Very cool. If there's one ability I'd like to see make the cut, it would have to be this one. Doesn't sound too magic-y or unpractical, and it's actually fairly interesting (or at least I think so).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Another interesting idea would be that later on the aliens discover you ablility to detect brainwaves and they create some sort of psionic shield that can mask their psi aura until a certain range. Or maybe the alien leaders can control their psionic "signature" and hide better than the average alien?

Edited by Hailfire22, 12 October 2004 - 02:19 PM.


#63 Qonfused

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Posted 12 October 2004 - 03:09 PM

Fact is not belif - Fact is when something is PROVEN, which magicians cannot. 


you should read some Hume, or Decarte.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#64 Paladin

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:33 AM

first thats flameing
and second a stage magican wount insinst he has reall powers
geller does

i do not beleave in magic but i do beleve in TK geller has been able to bend spoons in uncontrolable inviroments

also geller has telaphaty to

BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!


the point is psy has nouthing to do whith electromagnatisim
or else it would have been proven a long time aggo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, no it's not, it's simply stating: Ok, you got your oppinnion, I disagree, let it stay that way becasue I don't think you want to understand what I mean...

Second, Not sure about what you mean, in any case, there's not such "thing" as a "real" magician :D

Third, the way you talk about TK, it's like magic to you... You just "beleive" (here's that word again) it exists and that he's done it... that's not a fact, it's a belief...
I've seen professionnal sceptics explain how magicians can bed spoons, by twisting it whitout being apparent, it raises it's temperature enough so that it'll be elastic, and a twist of teh wrist will bend it... Of course it's the magician's living, they won't reveal all their secrets to their gullible public ^_^
Same thing goes for telepathy... In the end, it's all a trick.


NOW, we're discussing SCI-FI Psi here, as in: what would be the scientific basis for psionic powers as observed in a GAME such as XCOM.
In that case, yes, EM could explain it all in some way or another.

I'm not saying it explain REAL Psi, because UNTIL proven otherwise (here's Descartes for ya), IT DOES NOT EXIST. :hammer:
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#65 Qonfused

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 09:13 AM

Or as Hume would have put it:
It can't be proven, becouse the past can't prove the future.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#66 Paladin

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 02:27 PM

:huh?: what? :huh:
I fail to see your point.
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#67 Qonfused

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 03:10 PM

k, il do the old ball paradox(yes i know this was in the materix.)

you dropp a ball, it falls.
you dropp it again, it falls.
...
You dropp it a 1'000 times, every time it falls to the ground.
How can you be shure it falls to the ground, if you dropp it one more time.
According to Hume you can't.
becouse the past can't prove the future.
the ball could float staticly in the air.

eks.
A few hundred years ago the europeans was shure that all flamingos where white(becouse all the flamingoes they had ever seen where white). Then explorers found black flamingos in the east.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#68 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 03:19 PM

k, il do the old ball paradox(yes i know this was in the materix.)

you dropp a ball, it falls.
you dropp it again, it falls.
...
You dropp it a 1'000 times, every time it falls to the ground.
How can you be shure it falls to the ground, if you dropp it one more time.
According to Hume you can't.
becouse the past can't prove the future.
the ball could float staticly in the air.

eks.
A few hundred years ago the europeans was shure that all flamingos where white(becouse all the flamingoes they had ever seen where white). Then explorers found black flamingos in the east.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The only problem is that the ball falls because of gravity, which is FACT (or a scientific theory, whichever). Therefore you can say the ball will drop because gravity causes it to. The only way that could not happen is if gravity is all of a sudden gone from the universe, which will never happen and if it does then we're all doomed ^_^

Also, I've never seen a black flamingo. Not saying that there could never be one but I am interested in hearing where they are from and seeing for myself.

#69 Qonfused

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:02 PM

before i respond i must add that this is philosofy(Hume was a philosofer) and therefore not comen sens. so don't shoot me becouse i tell you the world isn't round

The only problem is that the ball falls because of gravity, which is FACT (or a scientific theory, whichever). Therefore you can say the ball will drop because gravity causes it to. The only way that could not happen is if gravity is all of a sudden gone from the universe, which will never happen and if it does then we're all doomed ^_^

Also, I've never seen a black flamingo. Not saying that there could never be one but I am interested in hearing where they are from and seeing for myself.


Gravity is a theroy by Newton, so is mecanics(wrong according to Einstein, and proven wrong by experiment's). The thing is(acording to Hume) that Fact's are only strong belifes that are based on the past.

how can you be shure that gravity will never disappear, or stopp to to function on the ball. just becouse it never happened in the past, dosn't mean it will never happen in the future.


Oh and i have never seen black flamingos myself, nor know exactly where they come from. It is a qvoted eksempel.

Edited by Qonfused, 14 October 2004 - 04:02 PM.

My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#70 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:21 PM

Now I'm starting to think the question is, "Why did Hume have to think up all this stuff? Was it for the humorous idea that future generations will struggle to figure it out?"

Honestly, I'm not the philosofy type myself so I'll leave the whole thing up to you guys........ :hammer:

#71 Qonfused

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 03:39 AM

Now I'm starting to think the question is, "Why did Hume have to think up all this stuff? Was it for the humorous idea that future generations will struggle to figure it out?"

Honestly, I'm not the philosofy type myself so I'll leave the whole thing up to you guys........ :hammer:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Philosopfy often seems to far fetched, Hume allso said that; even though we may never be shure of annything, thats no excuse for not trying.
Philosopfys important becouse science is based on "knowledge being defined", and philosophers are always trying to define "knowledge". Without sceptisime, Galilei would never have discovered that earth revolves around the sun.

This has gotten to off topic though, so i think we should stopp.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#72 Paladin

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 07:02 AM

Well, I see your points (both of you), and I agree that the past can't PROVE 100% teh future, especially at the quantum level... On the other hand, the ball falling to the ground is the best theory we've got, so according to Descartes (another philosopher), it's true until proven otherwise...
Plus we don't need juvenile "magic" to explain why the rock falls, because we now have a better understanding of the universe's forces...

Ignorance is no excuse for Esoterism, IMHO. -_-
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#73 centurion

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 09:45 AM

[...] because we now have a better understanding of the universe's forces...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't, we just can describe the stuff with more success.
Endure; in enduring, grow strong.
- Dak'kon

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#74 mikker

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 04:37 AM

I don't know who the heck this "Hume" guy is, but;

People need SOMETHING to belive in. We need to KNOW where we came from; answers to our questions (even how stupid the answers might be, w just need something), and it's from this that religion comes from. Therefore, if science has been proven so much that it can be seen as a fact, it will be taken as a fact. Test gravity; drop a ball. It falls. Go out to space, drop it again. It doesn't move. Why? Because gravity doesn't affect stuff out of their field. So... That might explain it, right?

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#75 Paladin

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:54 AM

erhhhh I sincerely hope you're joking... Because if you "drop someting" in outer space, it'll still be affected by the gravity from distant stars... About 5% of the comets actually come from the space between stars, where the weakned force, spanned over eons, gradually attracted them.
There is no such thing as being "out of the gravity field", no cutoff line where you can say it is not affecting you, because it's all a matter of scale... It might not affect you NOW beyond your capacity to resist, but it'll always be there nonetheless...
Actually, if you drop your ball, the earth will be attracted by your ball, and move toward it VERY slightly (not even the breath of an atom, but still) Of course, it'll be more apparent with bigger masses. We can now detect submarines under hundreds of meters of water, by measuring the slight variation of the earth's gravity when a satellite passes over it.

Besides, if you're in orbit around the earth, you'll FEEL like there is no gravity, but you're actually in a perpetual fall. You're just going fast enough to fall on the other side of the earth, and back again.
You'd get the exact same impression while in a falling elevator or plane, just not as long...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#76 Hailfire22

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 10:21 AM

erhhhh I sincerely hope you're joking... Because if you "drop someting" in outer space, it'll still be affected by the gravity from distant stars... About 5% of the comets actually come from the space between stars, where the weakned force, spanned over eons, gradually attracted them.
There is no such thing as being "out of the gravity field", no cutoff line where you can say it is not affecting you, because it's all a matter of scale... It might not affect you NOW beyond your capacity to resist, but it'll always be there nonetheless...
Actually, if you drop your ball, the earth will be attracted by your ball, and move toward it VERY slightly (not even the breath of an atom, but still) Of course, it'll be more apparent with bigger masses. We can now detect submarines under hundreds of meters of water, by measuring the slight variation of the earth's gravity when a satellite passes over it.

Besides, if you're in orbit around the earth, you'll FEEL like there is no gravity, but you're actually in a perpetual fall. You're just going fast enough to fall on the other side of the earth, and back again.
You'd get the exact same impression while in a falling elevator or plane, just not as long...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Curse you for responding before me! I was going to post the same thing last night but I had to go somewhere! ARRRRGH!!!!! :spank:

#77 Paladin

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:13 AM

Hehehe... :P
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#78 sir_schwick

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 03:49 PM

On the philosophy debate:

Almost nothing is accepted as scientific fact. Notice that it is called the Theory of Gravity. The theory has been so successful that we make the assumption it is correct. Scientists must do the paradoxical, make assumptions, in order to advance science.



On the Psi Debate:

In the original UFOPedia, it appeared that Alien Navigation and computer systems utilized a psychic interface. X-COM UFOs may have even utilized a similair system. Does this mean that if you enter an alien UFO you could communicate with its computer? Maybe that explains why all the doors open for you.

#79 [Ghetto]Two Shoe$

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 03:19 PM

Here is a sketch on Psionic abilities( reposted from the recuitment/soldier skills lab)

Lets face it. All creatures are to some degree, including plants, tellepathic
therefore we can call this the rudiments of Psionics.

In Terran creatures excluding humans, we know that dogs, cats, even
pet parrots exibit to one degree an invisible sensetivity to their masters
be they benevolent or not.The list goes on , whales, dolphins, octopus, etc etc.

Simply put, the Greys and Etherials tend to exibit a
much more thorough understanding and have
social infrastructure built uppon these talents.

Humans exibiting these talents are not as rare as one mite
immagine, and typicaly, are viewed with alot of fear
by close family and are punished for having a very stong
intuition at early ages out of fear by the parents.

Psionics is something different all together from what humans
have. Its a formalised , measured, tested domain by the
Greys and the Ethereals through many centuries of living
steeped in its application in their hive societies with the ability
to comment on it much more clearly thus opening the way to
greater understanding and application.

So, depending on what year you intend to have the setting
of this project take place and how deeply diversified and organised
the social fabric, the taboo may have been lifted somewhat enough
to allow humans to penetrate into this arena a bit more deeply
without thought of being punished for having done so.

Humans tend towards tellepathic and psychometabolic
talents. Ever hear the term psych yourself out? or that guy made
my skin crawl? Its not just over excitement by the athalete or
over warry of the pretty girl. These are real "vibes" generated in the
former instance and recieved in the latter.

Back to Greys and Ethereals, and how it all applies in making
it a stable aspect to gameplay.....

Full body controll would be extreemly taxing I suspect
even for a creature so tallented as a Grey or Ethereal.
It would require no action other than doing just that
and they would need to go through a series of checks
wich would result in an overall "chance" past the filter of
check of maybe say 20%and risk a chance at a backlash
by the target and in turn be themselves dominated
. You could then add varrying degrees to the success by
ading another cascade result at the end of
say 1-5. 1 being only able to halt the targeted human
4 being tottal controll and 5 being tottal and undetectable
manipulation over the course of several rounds untill
the time is right.

If you looked at the old school DND rules for psionic
engagements you would see the intelligence Gary Gygax
gave to his equations.Range, cost, duration, skill level
and aspecialy the offense and defense modes VS one another.

My feelings are this.....
If a human tellepath were to specialize in nothing
but Psychic Talents starting with a very high Psionic
Potential and a concrete teacher Id put them on
par with the average Grey Soldier but they will
have had to dedicate their lives to it where as a
Grey having lived with it, raised with it and taught
from birth basicaly, would be a capable combatant
outside of the psionic realm with guns and grenades
etc.

But what if a Grey were to do nothing but Psionic
training. This is what an Ethereal is. Its a grey gone
through some sort of metamorphosis and add
a little bit of secret society rituals and voilla. You have
the Ethereal Caste. Or Neromancer if you will.
These would be the types that make heads explode,
pannic within a radius and all that.
Ethereals shouldnt have been very combat able
because of this.

If humans are to be PSI talented then they shouldnt
be able to mount anything but a pistol and light armour
and maybe a medpack or scanner and a grenade or two.
Secondly they would need to be in line of sight, and lastly
they can do nothing that round other than the psionic activity
they are doing, in that round of combat.

This would make them vulnerable, and a high target priority
by the AI because Greys and Ethereals can sense psionic
humans activities because to them the noise of their
thoughts isnt a racuous cacophany in mid combat like
the grunts minds are, itd be closer the sound of an operah
singer belting out a high C twice above the staff at 105db
in the middle of a meditation hall(or collective conciousness of
the Greys/Ehtereals).

They would know where and who was makin that rackett and would
either want to capture that human and disect them after throroughly
probing their psyche to the depths , or blast them on sight.
ie Human Psionics pull huge agro....so.. with that in mind, your
psycher is gonna be dusted if they dont have a
man portable shield gen on them from the getgo.

I did want to point out that psi IS a very workable aspect
and ANY improvement to the old Xcom system is a HUGE one
in terms of game play and ballance.

Just remember, psionics dont have to be all out making the enemy
bleed from their orrafices and screem clutching at their temples.
They can do suble things, like make one squaddie calm the F down or break a
dominated soldier out of his trance and back to earth, or
throw up psychic stattic so the enemy cant pinpoint your exact
position by their thoughts alone.

The following is an example sketch of just what the characters
psi char would look like and the Psionic Domains(Areas of Dicipline), and some mechanics ideas.


PSI Potentials 0-100
0 = tottaly immune to psionics and is psionicaly inert themselves

Humans 0-50(with 5-10 being average, and 11-50 being a 1%chance to be psi talented)
Normal Greys 25-50
Grey Highups 50-75
Normal Ethereals 80-90
Ethereal Highups 100-?Maybe 125?

Humans have access to 1 domain 99% of the time and 2 domains; 1%of the time
Greys have access to 2 domains 75% of the time and all 3; 25% of the time
Ethereals have access to all domains always

-Humans have 0 level skills in their chosen domain(s) from the get go.
-Depending on the skill, the raw Psi potential is the base for success
of activating one of the cascade abilities within a certain domain.
-Once they have successfully activated a particular skill that becomes
their primary skill.
-Humans may only have One primary skill within a domain
and one secondary skill.
-Level 1 in a given skill gives a +10% chance to the
activation per/use upto a maximum +5 or level 5
-Greys may have upto level 7, Ethereals 10
-Psionicaly talented humans that survive a psionic encounter
vs aliens recieve access to psychic defences at level 0 and
cap at level 7.5(or 75%) for mitigation purposes during
any type of tellempathic manipulation uppon them be it human
or alien. Ie Ethereal Leader uses "Brain Melt" or "insert your aliens offensive psychic talent being used against a human psycher here" against SSG Psirona and her level 7.5 "insert name of mental defence here".

X= Attacker Potential
vs.
Y= Defender Potential
if X is greater than Y then go to Z(or result)
if Y is greater than X then Z=0

Human Psionicist Skill chart example

Psi -38
Pool-38 points

Domains 1(tellemetabolic)

Tellemetabolic -38
Heightened senses-0
Heal self-0
Heal other-0
Various Physical stat boosts-0

Some talents would need to have an activation cost
and a maintenance cost that would allow a couple
rounds of use for something realy badass like
double MPs or an accuracy increase like, joschmo
psycher the sniperboy at 2 clicks goes into a trance
and accieves perfect aim on his intended targets head
with heavy sniper laser.
75 mp's cost for the shot and burns his pool to half
for one use.
Or, Psirona activates sense psionics and she
can scan the battlefield for those pesky collective
babblers muttering to themselves and gives her
team a slight bonus to initiative by feeling and
interpreting the enemies position and intent but
cant do much else herself having done so, and
burns up 10 points to activate, and costs 10
5 to maintain per combat round.



PSI-
Tellekinetics-
pyro
cryo
kintetic
Mollecular alteration/manipulation

Tellempathy
Attack
Defence
Probe
Intuition
Sense Psionic activity
Psycho-tactile recollection

Tellemetabolic
Heightened senses
Heal self
Heal other
Various Physical stat boosts



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