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#1 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:01 AM

One cursor to replace the green dot :)

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#2 tamat

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:04 AM

I hate strange cursors, better classics cursors like a triangle, arrow or crosshair, with features like shinings, rotations, etc, but as simple as posible.

#3 Raven Squad

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:40 AM

I have to agree with tamat. Simple as possible. Little arrow or crosshair seems fine.
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#4 Micah

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 08:49 AM

Ditto tamat and Raven.

#5 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 10:13 AM

But you guys haven't seen it working yet in fullscreen. It is a simple design it doesn't do anything other than light up when somehting is selected. See pic.

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#6 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 10:17 AM

You can't prefer something like this to the design above that compliments and fits into the overall scheme

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#7 Breunor

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 11:15 AM

:uzzi: :chicken: Run Deimos, run! :P

I'd suggest a crosshair cursor, but then you're already in the middle of that, in a manner of speaking. :D

Since this isn't a major undertaking in respect to time invested, perhaps we could have several versions created, and if most people want the simplest one, we could at least set the game up to allow you to choose it in the options menu. When everything's said and done, this should simply be a file that a person could swap out as they choose. So even if there isn't an option menu choice, it should be simple enough to swap.

btw, I thought making a crosshair cursor based off of tamat's avatar would look cool, a glowing silver crosshair based on an X, with the very center of it removed.

#8 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 11:22 AM

It looks nice deimos but try making it look less thick.

On the game options page we can have a choose cursor option (along with the Nebula background chooser thingie. :P ). The everyone is happy

#9 mamutas

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 11:24 AM

I liked the color and light up response.

I did not like the shape though. I looked like a boat. :)

I suggest to change the shape and make colors brighter to make it more distinguished on the background.
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#10 tamat

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 11:34 AM

I used a blending cursor on my game and the result looks cool, only a white triangle blended with color buffer. Not useful with white backgrounds but here there is no problem.

glBlendFunc( GL_ONE, GL_ONE );
glEnable( GL_BLEND );

Edited by tamat, 28 April 2003 - 11:35 AM.


#11 Raven Squad

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 11:43 AM

Deimos it looks better in game screen, but still i would choose simpler one. Maybe if u shrink it 50%, it would look better to me. I like Breunors idea where u could choose which pointer to use.
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#12 Mark0

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 12:17 PM

i would go with the guys here.
do it smaller cause its too thick

colors are great
but still nice job :happybanana:

Edited by Mark0, 28 April 2003 - 12:18 PM.


#13 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 12:47 PM

I like the teal colored cursor, Deimos. Try it without the sides on it. and maybe make it purple to standout more.

I'd sure like to see that on the geoscape.

#14 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 02:27 PM

I gotta say I think it needs to stand out more in it's unlit state, but I'm not sure how.

#15 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 08:18 AM

Well whatever. Take the sides off it and let's have a look.

#16 red knight

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 09:23 AM

IMHO A little smaller will make it look better... but is looking good...

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#17 Deimos

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:04 AM

Squished and squashed, snipped and tucked.

I think that it doens't need an unlit state now. The problem is that its static when you guys see it. When its moving around the screen it actually stands out very well. For anyone who has the source import the one below the image and have a look by dragging it around.

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#18 Deimos

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:06 AM

cursor alone for importation

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#19 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:16 AM

It will stand-out statically if you use a different color, say Purple or Magenta.

But I LIKE it!

Could you make a purple/magenta one just so we can see?

Oh and do the UFO's and Interceptors really look like that in the global view?

And whats the blue triangle by the Crimean base?

#20 Deimos

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:34 AM

One magentary purple cursor :)

I really hope all the craft can be represented by icons. Blue for transport craft, yellow for interceptors, green for radar spotted ufo's (which will all be one size fits all) and red for hyperwave detected ufos which will all be different sizes to represent eah type of craft. It'll still get reported in the infopanel on the right and the text will be in red also to compliment it but I thought it would be cool to get an instant visual idea of what you'll be up against.

The white icon with a cross through it is a downed ufo, which the skyranger (blue triangle) is enroute to.

I was thinking of keeping the base icons as hollow squares, pink for aliens teal for humans.

Not sure whether the icons could be spun around in hardware or whether I'd have to make up 8 or so sprites for each direction. It would be kind of cool to see proper dirction changes if its possible.

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#21 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:40 AM

Now there you have it! Well done! Sorry to be a pain buuuuut could you brighten it a bit.

I like the idea of represeting the base just as the REAL Xcom does. I have a problem with the flying objects having shapes drawn in a solid color. We have all these nice fancy graphics but then something that looks like a sprite from a 70's video-game is supeimposed on it and it seems out of place. Do you know what I mean?

Either they should be dots or maybe add some shading to give them the illusion of shape or something.

#22 Deimos

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:53 AM

I'd say that'd be pretty easy to accomplish, in fact how about instead of shaded coloured blocks we use teenie little versions of the craft, say a mini interceptor but shaded in yellow and so on. Either as little 3d models or again sprites. If we did use 3d models it'd only have to be a maximum of 10-20 polys with a simple texture so it wouldn't be too high in overheads.

In fact the cursor could be made up in a similar way a little 3d rotating model that cycles through all colours in a sort of lava lamp on steroids way.

Not sure whether we should go back to using 'dots' to represent the different items as that would look a very dated.

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#23 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:57 AM

Hmmm! I think the darker one looks better as a matter of fact; what say you?

You might be able to make craft bitmaps then who cares about polys. It depends how Xenocide works.

#24 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 01:03 PM

The craft bitmaps are a great idea, we can change cursor with context, which is always good as a "subliminal reinforcement" of what mode you are in.

So when dealing with an interception it becomes the craft in question. No more clicking on an interceptor when you were going for a UFO etc. The cursor becomes a glyph for whatever it is you are over.

something like this

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#25 GreatGold

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 02:26 PM

Hey -

I really like the craft bitmaps concept as well. One of the pains of X-COM was that during multiple intercepts you could never be sure if you hit the damn UFO before clicking, or if you selected the correct interceptor (haha, mostly my problem on that last one I bet). Having the cursor change to the outline of the interceptor type, or just a generic one, would be a nice touch.

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ps - I prefer a non-arrow or dot myself.
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#26 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 02:45 PM

Interesting idea drewid. Then the ufos and aircraft can be represented with, say, glowing dots or something. Move the cursor over it, it changes to what the object is. Yeah that's slick I think.

#27 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 02:48 PM

That is a pain, the selecting the wrong craft thing.

#28 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 02:50 PM

Que?

#29 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 03:22 PM

when you've got a couple of interceptors real clos to a ufo and you keep getting the wrong window cos you can't-quite-get-the-right-dot-dammit :cussing:

#30 GreatGold

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 05:40 PM

Hahahahha -

Yup, you got exactly what I was trying to communicate...just better :D ! That always annoyed the heck outa me...

If that was not a problem, although not a huge thing, it would be a great touch. Is it a hard job to code something like that?

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#31 Deimos

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 09:05 AM

The craft bitmaps are a great idea, we can change cursor with context, which is always good as a "subliminal reinforcement" of what mode you are in.

So when dealing with an interception it becomes the craft in question. No more clicking on an interceptor when you were going for a UFO etc. The cursor becomes a glyph for whatever it is you are over.

something like this

Looks good, but I can see an inherent proble with it. If you've got a context sensitive 'changable' icon depending on what you're doing I'd probably crash the prog because I am usually multitasking in the geoscape and the icons would be constantly chaging (which is annoying in winamp :)). Maybe have it as an option. (We're going to end up with page after page of all the different options we plan in putting in)

I think though it is a cool idea using KISS would be less probematic. After all that's extra programming involved to introduce it, whereas using bitmaps or models would be less work. Maybe something to keep in mind for +v1.0.

To solve the choosing which interceptor problem when the player 'mouse over's' the bitmap a tool tip could pop up with the craft's stats and target in a semi transparent window.

#32 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 09:09 AM

when you've got a couple of interceptors real clos to a ufo and you keep getting the wrong window cos you can't-quite-get-the-right-dot-dammit  :cussing:

Zoom in then? :huh:

#33 GreatGold

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 10:28 AM

If only zooming in would do it...

Due to Murphy's Law, there are always at least three battleships zooming around the world...so eventually I'm down to just interceptors or firestorms using the swarm technique...which puts them directly on top of eachother. It would be a nice feature if somehow the current problem of selection was solved. I doubt it would get high priority, but it (and I have no programming experience so I could be wrong) can't take that long to code. The new Geoscape and modern graphics may eliviate the problem by itself though, so I guess we'll just have to see.

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#34 Deimos

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 10:51 AM

I'm kind of confused because if there is more than one item selectable under the cursor there's a popup menu that asks what you want to select.

IE
Alien base-1
UFO-267
Interceptor-6
Interceptor-7

The only problem with that was remembering which Interceptor was doing what and what UFO 267 was. Which is why I suggested a tooltip. I'll run somehitng up as an example of what I mean.

#35 Deimos

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 04:26 PM

One tooltip example

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#36 GreatGold

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 10:28 PM

Hey -

That looks truly excellent :beer: . I think some varient of thatwould be a great addition.

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#37 mikker

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 05:31 AM

Its great deimos. Would be great in the game.

Also, that Xenocide base logo looks great. It is in the middle of the x, right?

could be smaller...dunno...

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#38 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 06:35 AM

That tooltip works really well.

Maybe the interceptor graphic and the ufo graphic need to be "sharper" somehow?
cleaner? Nice idea though.

hmmmm

#39 Deimos

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 06:45 AM

The thing in the middle of the x is a crashed ufo. The base is the blue square slightly above the word Ankhara. You'll have to keep up Mikker ;)

I name my bases after the city they are closest to. So I usually have Ankhara base as a first base, (which gives coverage to most of Africa, all of Europe and about half of Asia) Osaka base (covers the rest of Asia and most of the Pacific), Panama base (covers tha Americas and the rest of Pacific and Atlantic), and finally Capetown which stops those pesky aliens running to the south pole. They can keep the North pole theres nothing there :) That pretty much covers the whole globe.

I've enlarged the icons because of a request to make them look less like a 70's game and give them more detail. The only way to do that is to enlarge the icons. Anyway it now has the appearance of a commanders battle table with little models to represent the tactical overview :)

Drew, I only enlarged them as a test :) The finished items I really think should really low poly models. That way when the player zooms in the models could get larger to reveal more detail. Sort of proportionally enlarge them as the zoom level increases.

Edited by Deimos, 01 May 2003 - 06:50 AM.


#40 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 07:41 AM

3d icons, that'll work nicely as long as they don't get too lost in the background.

I thought the icons were the right size, maybe tighten the anti-aliasing a bit though? one pixel instead of two kinda thing?

#41 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 07:47 AM

Oh yeah, and the basename looks really neat, stands out but not obtrusive.
That got me thinking perhaps the craft could have a number/letter code next to them, and a direction vector ? like an air-traffic control display?

#42 GreatGold

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 10:31 AM

That is a real good thought...it would make tracking your flights more effieicent, as well as making for nice eye-candy if implemented correctly. A simple call-sign, Flight Vector, and perhaps destination would be nice. Of course, if the idea works, having an origin as well would be good. I think the more organizational information available at one glance, the better (as long as it does not detract from the look or become overly confusing).

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#43 mikker

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 11:05 AM

:P

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#44 Deimos

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 12:00 PM

Oh yeah, and the basename looks really neat, stands out but not obtrusive. 
That got me thinking perhaps the craft could have a number/letter code next to them, and a direction vector ? like an air-traffic control display?

Mabye just a code, the vector information could be put in the infotext window along with destination and origin. That way it'd all be kept tidy onscreen. I'd hate the window to look like a real air traffic control window :)

While we're on the subject of interceptors I'd like to see them renamable in the equip craft screen as I get lost launching Interceptor-2 and 3 I can never remember their weapon loadouts so a callsign or nickname would work well for knowing what interceptor has what.

Even more important later in the game when the numbers get higher and the player has multiple aircraft all designated only by a number. A good example of this is Micah's save game on his saves page http://www.xcomufo.com/saves.html

He has multiple bases with interceptors and avengers all over the world. There are so many different craft with different loadouts. I've no idea how you kept track of them all Micah :)

#45 Micah

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 02:50 PM

He has multiple bases with interceptors and avengers all over the world. There are so many different craft with different loadouts. I've no idea how you kept track of them all Micah :)


It was simple enough because I used them so often (there were getting to be something like at least 10 ufos/day) that I knew which bases had which squads and avangers. As a general rule I did not equip/use weapons on avengers that had squads so they would never get damaged. The game is still where it was a couple of years ago because it crashes after playing for a few days from a saved-game bug....

But to actually contribute to the topic, I thin it would be handy to be able to hover the mouse over the craft and see its ordinance and simple squad details. And we could name the craft, too.

#46 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 12:28 AM

Oh yeah, and the basename looks really neat, stands out but not obtrusive.
That got me thinking perhaps the craft could have a number/letter code next to them, and a direction vector ? like an air-traffic control display?

Mabye just a code, the vector information could be put in the infotext window along with destination and origin. That way it'd all be kept tidy onscreen. I'd hate the window to look like a real air traffic control window :)

While we're on the subject of interceptors I'd like to see them renamable in the equip craft screen as I get lost launching Interceptor-2 and 3 I can never remember their weapon loadouts so a callsign or nickname would work well for knowing what interceptor has what.

Even more important later in the game when the numbers get higher and the player has multiple aircraft all designated only by a number. A good example of this is Micah's save game on his saves page http://www.xcomufo.com/saves.html

He has multiple bases with interceptors and avengers all over the world. There are so many different craft with different loadouts. I've no idea how you kept track of them all Micah :)

By vector information I mean a short line showing direction, with length showing speed. (could be small or an unobtrusive colo(u)r tho.

The callsign/name idea rocks. :rock:

That plus simple data could come up in the the green screen bit.

Oh I love it that's sooo cool.

#47 Deimos

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 08:58 AM

Something like this?

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#48 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 09:07 AM

It's a winner!
Stick it in a box and let's ship it. :D

#49 mamutas

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 10:09 AM

It could use a little arrow head on the end, couldn't it?
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#50 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 10:44 AM

Possibly. but that might be going into too much detail for now.

It would probably be best to impliment the ideas and see how it works with everything moving. That might change how people feel about it.