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#51 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 10:54 AM

Wait a second. :order:

Are we going to have objects THAT big on the geoscape PLUS the laser shots business?

I hope not!

It's okay if things get that big when the cursor is over them but even with the shading when they are that big they seem out of place. And the little laser shots? Please nooo!

#52 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 11:02 AM

NOOOOO not laser shots.

Just a vector line showing aircraft speed and direction like an Air-traffic control display.

I'd vote for smallening the objects back down again too TBH.

#53 mamutas

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 11:11 AM

Yeah, smaller will be better.
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#54 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 11:53 AM

The little lazer shots give me an idea though.

Yes, ditch them but, as an option to display or not, have a line connecting the interceptor with their target, as a quick visual que.

Anouther idea:

When you read an inflight UFO's HWD info panel, maybe it can darken the rest of the globe that isn't it's destination area. Or highlight the destination area or put a red line around it or something.

Of course this might be v1.0+ stuff though.

#55 mamutas

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 12:05 PM

As old programers saying says "if you are not sure about something, make it a user-specified option". :D
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#56 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:04 PM

The little lazer shots give me an idea though.

Yes, ditch them but, as an option to display or not, have a line connecting the interceptor with their target, as a quick visual que.

Anouther idea:

When you read an inflight UFO's HWD info panel, maybe it can darken the rest of the globe that isn't it's destination area.  Or highlight the destination area or put a red line around it or something.

Of course this might be v1.0+ stuff though.

This is why working freelance on your own is a bad thing,
bouncing ideas is great.

The connect to target line is a Full-On-Solid-Gold-Prize-Winner and no mistake.

#57 mamutas

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:17 PM

For those who wants some challenge :)

Would the line from craft to target be straight or curved along the Earth surface?

Even more complex situation :devillaugh:

Craft is going from point A to point B. Point A is located in the middle of Europe. Point B is located in the US (umm, Chicago, for example). Would the line go over France and Atlantic ocean or over Greenland and Canada?

:huh?: :huh?: :huh?:
Now, lets think to implement line drawing algorithm.... :huh?:
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#58 GreatGold

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:41 PM

Hey -

Well, the line should not be the displacement of the trip, but the total distance and actual ETA. The displacement would just be misleading and lead to confusion i think. But, I think the line is a great idea...

Talk about some great ideas coming to light from a mouse cursor!

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#59 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:42 PM

There has to be an algorithm already done for that.
Plotting a route the shortest distance around a sphere must have been done years ago.

#60 Breunor

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:51 PM

I don't suggest having the heading and speed represented by a graphic, rather when you do a mouseover a popup screen gives that info. Some ufos change direction a bit when chased, you'd have that blue line spinning around quite a bit. The connecting lines sound very good, I'd have them a darker color / greyed out until you mouseover the craft, then their lines are highlighted. Imagine 4 ufos on the screen, with say 9 interceptors after them. Lots of lines could look jumbled. Muted lines could help, as you mouse over what you want the relevent lines are highlighted. I wouldn't bother with curved lines, again it confuses things. You want a destination line here, not a path line if that makes sense.

Awesome ideas dudes! :rock:

#61 mamutas

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, path lines will not make sense in case of one craft chaising another. But the direct line will look weird in that case. :blink:

I would revert back to idea to highlight some small tooltip info table (direction, speed, altitude, etc.) and to put some blinking circle (may like target) on the destination point.
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#62 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 02:26 PM

I think direct line would be best for two reasons:
1 ) easiest to implement,
2 ) makes relationship clearest.

It should be a solid color. Somebody do a drawing let's see for sure if it would look bad or not.

#63 GreatGold

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 05:23 PM

Hey -

I dont know about the straight line idea...afterall, that doesnt accurately represent the path of the intercept. It can't be that hard to code, as the algorithms must exist as drewid suggests. Used in combination with Breunors idea of dimming the intercepts your not following with the cursor, I don't think it would be that complicated to follow on the screen.

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#64 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 01:34 PM

The plane that the "great circle" is drawn on is planar to the start point, end point and globe centre.

The curve of the circle is the radius of the globe plus a bit.

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#65 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 10:46 AM

I did not like the shape though. I looked like a boat. :)

You looked like a boat? :) Wow... were you looking like a catamaran or canoe?
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#66 Guest_blaa_*

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 01:02 PM

Hey -

I dont know about the straight line idea...afterall, that doesnt accurately represent the path of the intercept.  It can't be that hard to code, as the algorithms must exist as drewid suggests.  Used in combination with Breunors idea of dimming the intercepts your not following with the cursor, I don't think it would be that complicated to follow on the screen.

Gold

The target is moving thought so the path still will not be accurate.

Representing the path of the interceptor is not the point of the line. It is a graphical aid connecting interceptor and target. In the old days of naval warfare ships were placed as pins on a map. The pins were connected by taught string to their names on the side of the map; it's the same kind of thing. In this case the straight line completely divorces it from the Geoscape so that it stands out as an informational aid rather that being confused as somehow part of it. the line feature should be turn off/on-able. Perhaps with choice of straight or great circle.

#67 GreatGold

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 05:03 PM

Yeah -

That does make sense. However, if its going to be an option at all, we might as well make it a useful one. I know I'm baised by my intense interest in flight sims, but if we are going to have a flight plan on the Geoscape, I figure it might as well supply us with some pertanent information. But I do completely understand you point. I think its a good compromise for now though, and as the Geoscape progresses we can see if it has a place for more tactical craft informatiom, or not.

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#68 Guest_blaa_*

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:01 AM

It would make sense, a toggle button labeled "tactical display on/off" or something like that. BTW dispite your choice of words, a straight-line display would still be useful.

#69 red knight

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:51 AM

For those who wants some challenge :)

Would the line from craft to target be straight or curved along the Earth surface?

Forgot about it... i was going to reply but i didnt....

It is easy, first you change the 3D position (of both source and destination) to a polar coordinate system (if you dont have it yet)... After that you find an straight line (minimmum distance :devillaugh: ) in that space... after that is discretized in how many little straight lines you want (or need for accurate rendering over the globe)... 20 would be enough... Then you get 20 new points... Transform them back using the inverse of the transformation you used at the start of the algorithm, and voila you get the 20 over the sphere points that make up the path....

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#70 Syntax Error

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 02:57 AM

Oh my god!
When the dark has come we can see the light of the cities? :o

#71 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 02:04 PM

Yup, what do you expect? that everyone will turn off their lights when it gets dark? ;)

Seriously though, it was decided that it would be really cool, so we are doing it! :)
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#72 Puasonen

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 05:08 PM

Why isn't it at aplha 4.0 yet? It abviously is ready 'cause I can see the screenshot there..
There's no need for a sig..

#73 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 08:18 PM

We have to save some stuff for V1 :D
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#74 Puasonen

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 01:10 AM

I think that cursor looks a little bit like it wouldn't belong there. Like it's from some other program and windows messes these programs up or something. Maybe it's too big or something. The idea about choosable cursor is nice, but where's the other cursor? No proposals yet?
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#75 Breunor

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:10 AM

I'm partial to a higher contrast cursor, so you don't lose track of where it's at without wiggling it all over the place. What about using the Xenocide logo some? A golden circle with an X in it, and have the very center cut out, that's where your target is. Here's an example of it:

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#76 Breunor

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:20 AM

Here's the screen with the cursor, which could stand to be a bit thicker at that scale. I realise that when you're over the desert it would blend in, but there's also a drop shadow, so you'd hopefully see the shadow with good contrast even there.

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#77 mikker

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:23 AM

a red icon should work great.

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#78 Puasonen

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 12:25 PM

I like that. Has a a little military feel in it blended with Xenocides "X" And I believe it would be much easier to click things with that. I would like to see that as "the other" cursor.
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#79 Breunor

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 02:59 PM

Thicker red version:

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#80 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:23 PM

I think that it would look better with thinner inner prongs. Other than that, it looks great though (imo) :)
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#81 Vaaish

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 05:06 PM

will the point be at the center or will you have to add an arrow head to indicate where to click?

#82 Puasonen

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:39 PM

Hopefully he means the point is in the middle..
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#83 coolp

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:50 PM

Maybe it should generall be a little smaller... on the map screen it looks like the cursor is a bit cumbersome, and maybe there should be a little red dot in the middle with the prongs a little shorter. I think that the red works much better than the yellow. Great work!

Edited by coolp, 03 December 2003 - 11:51 PM.


#84 SupSuper

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 04:38 AM

i don't go much for circular cursors. they simply don't look much like... well, cursors -_-

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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#85 Breunor

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 08:14 AM

My preference is for the click to happen in the center, like crosshairs. Here's the resized version, assuming a 800x600 resolution. Not so obtrusive, I think the inner arms could be a little shorter, leaving a bit more of an opening in the middle. Perhaps the center dot would fit as well then.

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#86 coolp

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 11:17 PM

I kind of agree with SupSuper on second thought... people are used to normal cursors, whenever there are circular cursors it throws them off and makes things harder. Strategy games are hard enough without moving you guy to the wrong place because the cursor is wierd...

#87 Breunor

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 12:47 PM

When selecting a spot to move, previous discussion agreed that you'd have a path line between the soldier and the pointer to show how the soldier would get there. Do people really think it's hard to understand what crosshairs are pointing at? Hmm, it's not a sleep-loss kind of thing, so a standard arrow can be used as well. I wouldn't expect a game option to swap between them though, programmers will be too busy to bother with that type of item IMO.

#88 Puasonen

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 03:54 PM

I personaly don't like any complex cursors so something simple could be used.. A simple arrow style would be great. I'll throw few simple ideas. Other one has a sectoid and other one is jus X from Xenocide basically..

These are just to give an idea I was thinking about..

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Edited by Nyyperoid, 09 December 2003 - 03:55 PM.

There's no need for a sig..

#89 j'ordos

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 04:12 PM

How 'bout a hand shaped like a sectoid's hand? And if your soldier misses a clear target or moves to slow to your liking you can just slap him :devillaugh:
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#90 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 05:19 PM

keep it simple and plain. Arrows are cool

#91 Vaaish

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 08:41 PM

yup and you can easily tack on context sensitive tags like crosshairs for attack etc.

#92 Cavoe

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 09:03 PM

I like to stick to the old saying, KISS... Keep it simple, stupid =)
It's a damned pointer, it should be nice and sharp and easy to see what your doing!

Just my thoughts ^_^

#93 Xer0

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:29 AM

I like to stick to the old saying, KISS... Keep it simple, stupid =)
It's a damned pointer, it should be nice and sharp and easy to see what your doing!

Just my thoughts ^_^

Agreed. We're not making ourselves look incredibly spiffy by using an unusual pointer anyway.

#94 kafros

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 09:34 AM

/bump

How have you decided to use the current pointer anyway? :)

#95 Vaaish

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 10:09 AM

I believe that the pointer currently in Xenocide is the final one.