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"no Save In Battlescape"


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#1 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 02:57 PM

I'm so sorry I didn't started this earlier, but I didn't want to bore anyone. The game, though, is now full of surprises compared with a normal "save before and after everything" game, so I though it can be informative to share some of the pain I'm going through with this.
And it's a pain because I'm decided not to let any of my men die, especially to cheaty aliens. So any slight mistake leading to the death of a soldier implied instant reload in geoscape and starting the mission all over again.
In the first day, there are always two USOs, one very small that doesn't land and navigates around the base and a small one, which can land everywhere on earth. Since I'm not really willing to send my Triton too far, I'm starting the game until the pesky small sub lands relatively close to my base, too. In order to capture the very small sub, an Ajax torpedo is usually enough, but for the small sub I don't need anything since it can be assaulted, so I gain far more this way.
So, my first mission is to capture the small vessel and about 7-11 gillmen soldiers, equiped with sonic blasters, pistols and pulsers and since the game just began, I have only what I started with, no chance yes to equip everyone with better weapons yet.
In this mission I learned that the tip of the Triton (as you exit and turn to the left part of Triton) is a perfect place to stay behind and shoot incoming aliens without the fear of retaliation. Another spot is right when you exit, near the wing, you can shoot also everything on the right without being shot. Another lesson was you have to put your soldiers as high as possible so they can shoot and throw as far on the map as possible.
After several trials and deaths, I was lucky enough to use this previous tricks to kill all the aliens outside. From the top, I was shooting with explosive ammo, so even if the aliens weren't directly hit, they were caught in the blast radius. Of course, killing gillmen with harpon rifles is not really fun, since they just laugh, but they eventually died.
The critical part came when trying to assault the vessel. I knew from previous experience there are ussualy 2 aliens in-there, one near the engine and another one on the left side of the vessel). I was lucky to get only one alien, but I knew how horribly poor the accuracy skill is for my losy soldiers. So I shot auto mode, hoping at least one shot will hit.
One... missed. Second... hit, but the alien is still standing, which reminds me the aqua jet launcher is having a lousy power for AP. Third... missed... I already knew is going to get ugly when the shot reached the ion beam accelerator which exploded. Darn, I wanted that, but who cares, I can get it later, at least I finished the mission. So, no Ion Beam, no Zrbite, but alive.
Will be continued

#2 Blehm 98

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:23 PM

LOL, good story, i recommend that you use xcomutil and make gauss weapons more powerful and give them infinite ammo. That way you have a good fight to put up. should i pin, or to pin i shall not?
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#3 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:44 PM

I forgot to mention I just sack all technicians and I buy as much scientist as possible (up to 42, since I have 8 soldiers).
So, after starting reasearch on all new equipment and selling most of it, I bought a Coelacanth (Gas Cannon) and I made sure the Sonic Pistol project finishes on the night of 10 to 11 january. Did you know that if you already discovered Sonic Pistol but you're still waiting for its clip to be researched, you can actually pick it up on the battlefield and shoot with it?
Anyway, the very small sub wreck is waiting for me on the bottom of the ocean and I'm not wasting time to go for it.
If you're patient enough, you can reload until the ion beam accelerator in the ship didn't explode, so you gain far more money from this. From my previous games I knew aquatoids are easy and this is only one alien vessel. Well, I had to reload several times even for this battle. I found out that if you reload many times, each time you get a different environment, so I can even choose.
After this battle, new weaponry comes on 2 january, so I'm better equiped. Even the coelacanth arrives. In my previous games I didn't use them, since my soldiers can improve from the shots, while the coelacanth doesn't. But now I'm sure it's worth the money. It has a quite hard shell and so many times it survived even to a Sonic Cannon shot.
More to come

#4 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:48 PM

LOL, good story, i recommend that you use xcomutil and make gauss weapons more powerful and give them infinite ammo.  That way you have a good fight to put up.  should i pin, or to pin i shall not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm trying to see what the creators of the game tried to make from this game, so no, I don't modify the files in any way. Even the way they are, the gauss family is not that bad, just I can't afford to manufacture them easily in the begining, since I need the space for scientist to discover the much better sonic pistol.
No, don't bother, it's not an important topic, it's just something I'm feeling the need to share with those really interested in how I play. But it's not worth pinning

#5 Blehm 98

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:58 PM

we could put it in save games and pin it, since this could important there. In fact, i think, if you don't mind, i will move it

hmm, i have a huge long list of things i spend the first 20 minutes of all my xcom games going, buying and selling, building and researching, i do it al before i start teh game
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#6 Sergio

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE
"And it's a pain because I'm decided not to let any of my men die, especially to cheaty aliens."

How is the AI cheating compared with you? Its not really playing the game if you don't let the Aliens kill some of your men. Reloading all the time because you can't bear the pain of losing a man is really pathetic.

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Reloading is just plain cheating. This is War!

#7 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:04 PM

Anyway, after some uneventfull days a look on the graphs shows another sub is coming, so I'm prepared for it.
So the strategy is, first comes the coelacanth, then every nearby alien gets shot outside with explosive. Several shots are usually needed, since my soldiers have no idea what it means to shoot straight. After clearing the neighbourhood, I ocupy tall positions and I explore with my coelacanth. Did you know it can take pistol shots easily? Well, I rain explosive over the aliens discovered by the coelacanth and the outside part is clear. Now the inside is a bit tougher, since you cannot explore it with the coelacanth. So what I do initially is wait, on the south easth side of the cruiser. I saw people with good reaction times can kill safely any adventurous alien from that side, as long as is not in the doors view. After tricking the aliens to come after my coelacanth, I just shoot them. I guess I was a bit lucky, since an alien tried to throw a grenade after my coelacanth and killed himself and others in the process. Well, even if its health goes down, at the end of the mission the coelacanth is automatically repaired. On the north side, in some really specific spots you can actually can see and shoot some aliens that try to shoot everyone that ventures in the back of the sub. So my advice is to look for these spots and shoot the aliens from outside rather than dying entering the back of the sub. This advice aplies on many subs, for the cruiser the weak spot is north side.
In the lateral chambers, the ones with ion beam accelerators ussually I have some soldiers open the doors while others in the back take a peek diagonally. With a bit of luck, the aliens are dead.
More cruiser come, the same happens until 21 january when a large sub appears.
Since I have no means to put it down yet, I let it go, since I know it's preparing to terrorize.
More to come

#8 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:10 PM

we could put it in save games and pin it, since this could important there.  In fact, i think, if you don't mind, i will move it

hmm, i have a huge long list of things i spend the first 20 minutes of all my xcom games going, buying and selling, building and researching, i do it al before i start teh game

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I kept some savegames as rar archives, but why would they be any different than other savegames? What is different is the feeling, which cannot be saved, unfortunately.

To Sergio:
And yes, not having your soldiers die is pathetic, but I play this game for enjoyment, not for reality. If you want all your soldiers be killed, that's fine and a really easy task, and I don't really think aliens will have much trouble with this. Some guys don't even dare to go to a difficult mission just because they'll die there for sure. Aliens cheat hugely, and more details will be given later or they can be collected from all over this site. At first, they have huge statistics. What I'm showing here is the fact they can be still defeated, even without saving at all in the battlescape. And I think it's still fair to save only in geoscape. Not allowing my soldiers to die just takes longer and improves my skills for the ironman mode. Should I understand you're playing in the ironman mode already? Then share your stories, we're here to listen.
Did I mention this game is on superhuman level?

Edited by dan2, 17 January 2005 - 05:23 PM.


#9 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:29 PM

Anyway, soon after the same large USO comes again and terrorizes a port. By now I have both sonic pistol (with clip) and sonic pulsers. It took me like two days to try various strategies of how to get rid of the aliens in a safe manner.
Again, the Triton proved to be an excelent shield. From behind it I was able to shoot and return, throw grenades and clear partially that corner of the town. Unfortunately, there are so many windows and I cannot guess which one is not safe to go into its view. But with luck and determination, I'm able to kill enough aliens until their morale is so low they begin to panick. About deep one terrorists, I'm always trying to freeze only those found in buildings and those outside I shoot them right away. Only two deep ones are required, so it's not that hard to freeze them. After a full day I make it and to my horror, no M.C. Reader.
Well, everything goes to step 1 again. But enough patience and lots of swearing prove to be enough for another succesfull mission and here I am, having everything I need to get my M.C. Labs, Ion Armors, aqua plastic and M.C. Reader.
After getting the Ion armor I thought it's going to be easy, but I noticed the aliens being inaccurate enough to hit my side armor while shooting from front. And the side armor is so weak.
That's life. After getting my M.C. Labs at the end of february, I buy soldiers, pass fast March and see how good they are. This (long) way I'm able to buy soldiers with 90+ M.C.Strength and 65+ Accuracy. Of course, Reactions are welcomed, but not mandatory.
More to come

#10 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:43 PM

Next time I'm going to play I'll keep a more accurate and detailed journal, depending on how this one will work.
Did you know that if you save before the begining of a month, you can choose between races as which one you're in the mood to fight mainly in that month?
So I chose aquatoids for february and to my big surprise, for the first time in my life I saw a large terrorizing USO filled with aquatoids. Since I had already Sonic Oscillators it went down, but realizing its aquatoids, I didn't miss the chance of leave it alone and get calcinites corpses in the process. Many people know they're relatively hard to get in the begining of the game and their skin is required to be studied in order to be able to study the Vibroblade family. I guess studying its mouth and claws make the scientist realize how a vibroblade can be constructed.
Anyway, the battle lasted for one more day, even if one would think that having Ion Armor against aquatoids would be easy. They have excellent reactions and strange enough, sometimes you cannot see them even if they're in visual range and you should see them. Another cheat of the game.
By the end of the month I had everything I needed for 1st april, when a Tasoth Squad Leader is necessary.
So I arrange a ship gets attacked by Tasoths, as mixed crew with aquatoids.
I left with sonic cannons, vibroblades, sonic pulsers, sonic pistols, freezing cannon and an M.C.Reader and I was ready for the battle.
Will be continued

#11 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:02 PM

The hard part for terrorized ships is the fact they're 2 chained parts, so any mistake in the second ruins everything you've done in the first part, since no save is allowed. And they're 20+ aliens in each part. And not any aliens, but biodrones, triscenes, a floating in air !!?? xarquid being no piece of cake.
It took me a week to be able to win the first half and even then I was the happiest in my life. But I think it's quite hard and finishing both parts without getting my soldiers killed it's yet beyond my patience.
First of all, I like cargo ships, since they're easier, but you get them in like 25% of the time. So most of the time I was equiping my soldiers just to find out its a line cruiser. So initially I tried to do both parts, but since I was needing just a Tasoth Squad Leader I chose to stun one, kill a couple of more aliens, take the bounty and run.
Later, I decided to kill almost all aliens and then take all the bounty to the Triton. It took me 55 turns and only one Triscene left alive. I know Triscene doesn't move unless you saw it, but I know it was there because it was panicking. The kitchen is the best defence, since it's walls are not damaged by grenades. Does anyone knows why the biodrone needs a snack from the kitchen storage room? I always keep my sodiers right in front of the door with their front armor to the door and trust me, 132 armor strength goes a long way. Sometimes I cancel their remaining action points because it happened for the to firereact to a biodrone and get both killed in the process. Rather then turning corners and be hit in the side armor I rather make 2 holes in the wall and turn diagonally, is way better. Actually, if you have a choice, always turn corners diagonally rather than a 90 degree turn. I hope you know what I mean.
So I have now a Tasoth Squad Leader and the mission finished with 300+ points, even if I chose to dust-off.
Then, on first april night, a medium USO chooses to land.
Will be continued

#12 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:54 PM

I knew medium size have alins with disruptor pulse launcher, what I didn't know is they cheat with them.
So, I land, get behind the Triton, shoot any incoming alien, explore and 'whoosh' (taken from NFK) I see a torpedo coming from nowhere and following path points hitting my soldiers. I investigate to see where it came from, no sight of alien.
Second load, stay in triton, investigate a bit, shoot and return to safety. After killing 6 gillmen, no other comes, so I have to come out and see where are the aliens. Again, 'whoosh', shooting points and bang, my poor coelacanth. Investigate, no alien in a decent range.
Third one, same thing. I even see where is starting from and is from the other side of the map. Again, no alien was able to see me, so I guess it's a cheap cheat. I mean, it's OK if at least one alien is able to see my soldiers, but otherwise... is just cheat.
Now I forgot to mention what I noticed in my previous battles. If a calcinite, a tasoth squad leader or other specific mind controling aliens are near your soldiers, even if they're on a different level, it's just a range effect, the aliens are able to M.C. your troops, without the need of any alien ever see your soldiers.
So I kept receiving torpedoes until one game I guess the cheaty alien wasn't equiped with one, so it was OK. I didn't notice such behaviour before in my 'save-o-holic' campaigns.
So now I'm waiting the end of the day to be able to research DPLs and to be able to return the favor.
I hope I'll keep a better track of my battles from now on and give more details each time. Although they'll probably be far easier, now that I'll have M.C.Disruptors soon

Edited by dan2, 17 January 2005 - 08:52 PM.


#13 Blehm 98

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 06:46 PM

All it takes is one glimpse, or maybe even just sight of your triton...

[edit]whoops, i forgot to move it, moving this to saved games because it seems to fit there better. If you don't like it, you can always leave a post saying why and move it back[/edit]

Edited by blehm, 17 January 2005 - 06:47 PM.

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#14 dan2

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 08:58 PM

All it takes is one glimpse, or maybe even just sight of your triton...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't think so, the torpedo is coming from the other side of the map. And is going right after my coelacanth or my soldiers, so it's not a shot in the dark. And for sure there is no alien to see where I am, so I'm sure it's just another cheat for the alien. As NFK was saying some time ago, instead of making a smart AI, which is hard, the programmers chose to use cheats, which are much easier to implement, but make the game hard enough to make you think of an AI.

#15 Blehm 98

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:42 PM

the ai can't cheat unless it has seen you. maybe it's in one of those really hard positions that you can see through walls or something, those happen sometimes.
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#16 dan2

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 11:15 AM

the ai can't cheat unless it has seen you.  maybe it's in one of those really hard positions that you can see through walls or something, those happen sometimes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I'm going to attach a savefile later, maybe if you play it, you'll understand what I mean. Any alien that saw my soldiers was dead several turns ago and no other alien is in direct visual contact, since I'm searching a large area after the explosion. The savefile will be right before my Triton will assault, since I don't save during battles.

#17 dan2

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:11 PM

A relatively boring battle followed, an escort ship was trying to find my base and suddenly suffered from sonic oscillator pain, so it had to lie down on the ocean floor. Only one trial, shipwreck environment.
Door opens, one gillmen detected, two sonic pistol shots and it's down. Get outside, another one nearby has the same fate. Ocupy position behind the head of the Triton, wait for the next turn and something moves at the edge of the view. Coelacanth goes to investigates, just a few steps and it discovers another gillmen, shots and it's dead. Some soldiers climb a stair and ocupy higher positions. Going on the right side of the Triton, another gillmen is discovered right near the USO wreck. One soldier shoots, miss. Gilemen return fire, but another miss. Three more shots, all misses. Another 6 more shots, all misses. Well, all my soldiers have 70+ accuracy and they shoot with sonic pistols, on snap mode. I'm out of options, so one soldier arms a grenade and another one throws it near the gillmen. End of turn, the gillmen doesn't die, just goes to sleep. This was a really luck gillmen, if you ask me. I go near it, wake it up with a Medi-kit and finally shoot it black-point. It dies. My soldiers enter the shipwreck, but no alive aliens. One more is found near the front of a shipwreck, another 4 shots, one lethal.
My coelacanth goes for more exploring, some other soldiers get into high positions and after a few turns my coelacanth finds inside a cabin the last gillmen. I wonder if I can shoot it, since it's inside a cabin, but my guys were able to take it through a porthole from really far away. Job finished.
Now two more medium ships appeared, but they're waiting too, on the bottom of the ocean. I wasn't in a rush, since my engineers are making some M.C.Disruptors. I just left for the first one with 3 M.C.Disruptors on board, so it's time for har M.C. training. Yeah, now I'll be able to do the 2 stage terrorized ship on 1st may.
Hopefully the medium ships will be more entertaining

#18 dan2

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 12:07 AM

After getting M.C.Disruptor the game is now too easy. No more reloads and I allign the aliens in straight lines for shooting. In a way it's not fun anymore.
I started a new Xcom3 game, which is more entertaining now, since I just began and my soldiers are so weak.
Something's wrong with me, I'm trying so hard to diminish the challenge and when it happens is actually bad.
Hmmm.... :hmmm: