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#1 Voller

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:23 AM

Hi guys,

I had a couple of ideas the other day about things that could be implemented in ufo2000. Firstly a few things that should help to improve the feeling of playing good olde x-com:

1. Aiming and Walking:

When you've just taken a shot in ufo2000 and you haven't got enough time units left for another one, you automatically return to movement mode. In good olde x-com however, you remain in aiming mode, you just can't shoot and have to press the right mouse button to return to movement mode. If you're used to the kind of behaviour from old x-com you are likely to waste time units in ufo2000 by right clicking and looking in a random direction. It's only a handful, but it might be enough so you can't hide behind a wall anymore and you're stuffed. Plus: it just doesn't feel right ;)

2. Walking ufo2000 characters:

The way ufo2000 characters walk is way too smooth. Though you have taken the original sprites from old x-com, they shouldn't move in a straight line like they do in ufo2000, but also up and down like they used to in the old days. That way it looks as if they're walking rather then gliding whilst moving their feet.

3. Walking uphill:

This is a small thing, but again it just doesn't feel right. When you want to walk up a ramp or hill onto a higher level, you have to click on the actual square on the next level to go there. In good old x-com it was often sufficient to click on the square below the one you actually wanted to end up on. I.e. if you're standing in front of a ramp, you just click on the square behind the ramp (but on the same level as yourself) and your character will walk up.
I think the same idea applies if you want to jump off a roof etc.
I hope you know what I mean... :D

Again, these are small things, but if you're used to the old stuff it might put you off. Plus: it is nice to have the good old x-com feeling :)

Few other ideas:

4. Restrictions on units which can be used in a map:

If you say that one side has to play humans and the other aliens (or even a certain race of aliens) it makes a little more sense ;)
Also it makes it possible to create a bit of a scenario with the map: Ufo landed somewhere, x-com is going in. Like in the old days :)

5. Handicaps:

If one player is significantly better than the other, or the map gives one player an unfair advantage over the other, allow for a point handicap. E.g.: one player only gets to spend 10000 points, while the other gets 15000. Allows for more flexibility in map design: create cool scenarios where one side is attacking and the other defending for example

6. More Flexible Deployment Zone:

Allow the deployment zone to be defined by the mapper (in the .lua or somewhere). Again this gives you more flexibility: Aliens start of in the vicinity of their ufo which is somewhere on the map, whilst the humans start in their transporter.

Ok, I think this is it for now :P I'll let you know if I find more ;)

Until then, keep up the great work =b

Voller

#2 Blood Angel

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 11:58 AM

I like the handicap and flexible deployment zone ideas, they'd make my life a lot easier. Aiming and Walking idea should be a simple matter of code tweaking, as should the Walking Uphill option. The Walking idea is at the discretion of the spritist. The Restrictions on Units idea could be implimented but is slightly pointless, as you can just agree on units.

#3 Sinofdamnation

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:19 AM

Handicap? *remembers his last game against Hobbes* yeeeeees!
Good ideas you have there, they are all good!
"They shall be pure of heart and strong of body, untainted by doubt and unsullied by self-aggrandisement. They will be bright stars in the firmament of battle. Angels of Death whose shining wings bring swift annihilation to the enemies of Man. So it shall be for a thousand times a thousand years, unto the very end of eternity and the extinction of mortal flesh."

#4 Voller

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 09:45 AM

The Walking idea is at the discretion of the spritist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If I'm not mistaken it is the sprites themselves which move up and down in old x-com, not their contents. I suppose there is a reason for it, but I assume it is just a matter of preference. I think it's only some characters which seem to "glide" along: normal x-com soldiers and mutons for example. On the other hand you got others which move up and down as well: snakemen and ethereals. I suppose it's because they're not exactly walking like humanoids.

I guess you'd either have to redraw some of the current sprites, or do a bit of coding to get the wanted effect. If it were to be coded you could define in the .lua of a unit how it should behave.

Voller

#5 Sporb

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 05:32 PM

there is already support for drawing sprites slightly higher as evident in the guns. It'd be relatively easy to make every 4th frame move up one pixel and back down again or somthing - but it'd probably be easier to forget the xcom sprites and just simulate actualy walking motion via the sprite graphic (see Chameleon skin/ zombies)

#6 Voller

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 04:08 PM

Fair enough. I suppose there is not much point in bothering if you're intending to replace the old sprites anyway.

Another thing that just crossed my mind:

Why do the second player's men kneel at the start of their first round? They're already at a disadvantage as it is, so why waste precious TUs? ;)

Sure looks cool though :P

Voller

#7 Hobbes

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:25 PM

Why do the second player's men kneel at the start of their first round? They're already at a disadvantage as it is, so why waste precious TUs? ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You can disable that on the beta by going to options on the main menu, or in the stable by manually editing the ufo2000.ini file.

#8 Exo2000

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:35 PM

Fair enough. I suppose there is not much point in bothering if you're intending to replace the old sprites anyway.

Another thing that just crossed my mind:

Why do the second player's men kneel at the start of their first round? They're already at a disadvantage as it is, so why waste precious TUs? ;)

Sure looks cool though :P

Voller

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


All of 4 TUs? WOW! THAT'S SO MANY! OMG

=b
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#9 Voller

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:57 AM

as far as I know it takes 8 to stand up ;) and it is a matter of principle :P

but if it can be switched off that's fine of course :)

Voller

#10 thewulf00

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 01:10 AM

My experience says that 8 TUs can make the difference between one and two aimed shots. And 8 TUs can be much: Walking two field, taking something in hands aso. 8 TUs will make a difference.

The option in the option menu is the correct answer to that problem i think =b

#11 thewulf00

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 01:42 AM

Further i think there should be a solution for the disconnection people. Perhaps this one: If a game after it got a disconnection will not be replayed (because of an error) the player with less soldiers/points/health/whatever should get a loss. Disconnecting is a growing phenomenon and should be fought. There are many people, who has hard-earned a win, but the opponent is a lousy looser... =p

#12 Sporb

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 02:50 AM

agreed - you can reconnect a game now tho - F3

#13 Voller

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 03:38 PM

Had a few more ideas while getting my arse kicked a few minutes ago:

1. Hovering mouse over unit highlights name in unit list:

While you're waiting for your opponent to finish his round, it would be nice to know who is who on your team and how alive your people are. That way you can see the most important stats.

2. Loss of visual contact with enemy is updated at round end, not real time

It happens very often to me that I run into an opponent's unit and because I don't have enough TUs left with that unit to take a shot, seek cover straight away. I only realise after it is too late that I can't shoot the enemy with my snipers, because I don't know where he is anymore.

I know it is more realistic the way it is at the moment, but old school xcom players will run into problems, get themselves killed and lose interest. Maybe you could display non-visible units as 25% transparent or darker or something like that.

Or make this feature optional in the mission planner.

3. Have I primed it? Or have I not?

Quite often I pre-prime my grenades for later use and run around with them for a few rounds. Then I would like to know if I primed them already or not, but I might not necessarily have enough TUs left to find out. Currently, only the weapon options are displayed, for which there are enough TUs left to perform the respective actions. If I have taken a few steps and the grenade only displays "throw", I don't know if it is because it is already primed, or simply because I haven't got enough TUs left.

I see two obvious solutions to the problem:

a ) Add some sort of symbol to the picture of the grenade if it has been primed (a number maybe, to indicate the no. of turns)

b ) Generally show every weapon option irrespective of how many TUs are left, but shade the ones grey, which can't be performed anymore.

or both :)

Edited by Voller, 11 July 2006 - 03:39 PM.


#14 Hobbes

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 04:08 PM

I think the first and the third suggestion are nice ideas. About the 2nd one a system like you propose would make the game easier, especially for long-range shooters

#15 Sporb

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 07:54 PM

i like the floating stat idea but the grenades symbol prime thing is not required - if you look down the corner of the grenade you should see a red number denoting the amount of time the grenade has to cook

#16 Voller

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 03:24 AM

gosh, you're right. Haven't noticed that. Thanks!

@Hobbes: Yes, I see why it is more realistic and better (in a way) as it is at the moment, but it also takes a lot of getting used to. I could bang my head on the desk every time I do it, it would still not stop me from doing it ;)

I think if this could be specified in the game rules in the mission planner, that would be nice.

Or maybe include some sort of timer, so that the enemy unit is visible until 20s or so after visual contact has been lost.

Or roughly mark the area where the unit had been spotted, so that you still have a vague idea where he is.

Or maybe I'm just trying to justify why I keep getting my arse kicked ;)

#17 7Saturn

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 08:56 AM

I got another point.
As you all know, you can chat during the battle. But there isn't any kind of chatlog.

OK, it's also repeated during the saved replay. But that takes a long time, when you need to watch the complete replay, only for reading the chats.

Maybe it can be saved in another file, or a kind of extract-function for the chatmessages in a saved replay.

#18 the_unfrgiven

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 12:10 PM

a suggestion I have is to decrease the percentage of TU's used for shooting as a soldier goes up in rank. It's always bugged me in the xcom games that no matter how much experience a unit got, they never got to shoot more than when they were a green rookie.

#19 nappes

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 01:02 PM

Well, they did get more accurate, right? Which means they get more out of the time they use for aiming.

Edited by nappes, 17 July 2006 - 01:06 PM.

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#20 7Saturn

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:43 AM

Some further suggestions:

It may be a little bit easier to undesrstand the configfiles (and the others too) like ufo2000.ini, if the partial commands or data were described all.
For example the parts "width" and "height" which show the used screnn-size for the battelscape are not noticed.

And the server should be updated. The lxnt-server doesn't work at the moment (or for longer time?), and this might be a problem for beginners.

Something, I like in XCOM is, that you can take a screenshot in any situation. It's not possible to take a screenshot after the mission when you see the list with the stats of this match. Maybe this can be changed. It's more XCOM-oldschool :D.

#21 Hobbes

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:59 AM

Something, I like in XCOM is, that you can take a screenshot in any situation. It's not possible to take a screenshot after the mission when you see the list with the stats of this match. Maybe this can be changed. It's more XCOM-oldschool :D.


Use F12 to take screenshots.

#22 7Saturn

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:03 AM

Use F12 to take screenshots.


This doesn't work when the battle is over and you see the stats of the battle. During the battle I know it works. :) Or I'm to silly for that. <_<

#23 Kratos

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 06:20 PM


Use F12 to take screenshots.


This doesn't work when the battle is over and you see the stats of the battle. During the battle I know it works. :) Or I'm to silly for that. <_<

Then hit 'Print Screen' then paste into a paint program.

#24 playstationman

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 09:55 PM

Then hit 'Print Screen' then paste into a paint program.


Not everybody runs Windows, and those that do might want to take more than one screenshot without having to quit/minimize their game.

#25 7Saturn

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Posted 22 July 2006 - 06:50 AM

OK, this does the job, but as playstationman said:

Not everybody runs Windows, and those that do might want to take more than one screenshot without having to quit/minimize their game.


A special problem that occures then is, that my mouse-pointer disappears, when I return after minimizing the game. Then I need to restart UFO2000, for getting it visible again. Not really comfortable. This might be a further bug? (I'm running WinXP.)

#26 Sinofdamnation

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 04:30 AM


Then hit 'Print Screen' then paste into a paint program.


Not everybody runs Windows, and those that do might want to take more than one screenshot without having to quit/minimize their game.


Okay, seems reasonable, but why would someone want to take 2 or more screenshots from game statics?
"They shall be pure of heart and strong of body, untainted by doubt and unsullied by self-aggrandisement. They will be bright stars in the firmament of battle. Angels of Death whose shining wings bring swift annihilation to the enemies of Man. So it shall be for a thousand times a thousand years, unto the very end of eternity and the extinction of mortal flesh."

#27 th15

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:33 AM

A special problem that occures then is, that my mouse-pointer disappears, when I return after minimizing the game. Then I need to restart UFO2000, for getting it visible again. Not really comfortable. This might be a further bug? (I'm running WinXP.)


Press F10 twice to minimize and maximize and your pointer should be back. Its different from using alt-enter, I don't know why, but it works.

#28 7Saturn

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 02:26 AM

Okay, seems reasonable, but why would someone want to take 2 or more screenshots from game statics?


Making screenshots of the statistics is not the point. I just wanted to tell that this is bit different, and might be better the original way. (And of course it's easier than copy 'n' paste. And additionally everybody can use it then, not just Windows-Users.)

@th15: Thanks for the hint with F10. That's good.

Something I miss in the game-interface is, whom am I playing currently. Sounds strange the first moment you hear it, but I had the situation that I challenged two players at same time (one didn't react), and as the game started I didn't know for sure, who of them took the challenge. Is there any way to find that out, without asking the opponent his nick (he might think you were bit silly, when you don't know who you challenged :wacko:)? If not, it might be adddeed to interface.

Edited by 7Saturn, 27 July 2006 - 09:05 AM.


#29 Kratos

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 11:51 PM

Something I miss in the game-interface is, whom am I playing currently. Sounds strange the first moment you hear it, but I had the situation that I challenged two players at same time (one didn't react), and as the game started I didn't know for sure, who of them took the challenge. Is there any way to find that out, without asking the opponent his nick (he might think you were bit silly, when you don't know who you challenged wacko.gif)? If not, it might be adddeed to interface.

I concur. It's not too difficult to create: 'Name' ':chat text'.

#30 Sporb

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 08:52 AM

instead of remote and client, what if the names of each player were substituted? IE
Bill: 15 men
Tsargh: 2 1/2 men ...

#31 Brick-To-Face

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 12:22 PM

Yes!

(This also helps since someone mentioned not everyone is tech-savvy, and we can't exlude people just because they don't know what client means)

#32 7Saturn

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 02:26 PM

Yes!

(This also helps since someone mentioned not everyone is tech-savvy, and we can't exlude people just because they don't know what client means)

I agree with you, Brick-To-Face. I also read this posts. Good idea Sporb!

#33 7Saturn

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:44 PM

I'm not sure, if it was mentioned earlier, but something I miss, is the medi-kit, that helped me a lot in X-COM UFO defense. It's especially bothering, If your snipers or a similiar special-unit is injured, and has lost their special abilities (for example the snipering :)).

Does enyone else miss this piece of equipment?

#34 Sporb

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:22 PM

one cludgy and TBH dangerous (for the game anyway) is to force the game to generate a negative number for damage. It will actually give you health back. Unfortunately you can only use Damage deviation to generate them and it does break the game frequantly

#35 7Saturn

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 10:34 AM

OK, I may go on your nerves. But I have an idea for a new scenario, but we all know it allready. :P

In XCOM - Ufo defense the placing of units is handeled randomly for the attacked units, and the attacker has an also random but focused starting place. Maybe it could be implemented as "Inroad" or something like that?

In Xcom it was really good fun, if you didn't know, where the enemy was sitting. I don't know how difficult it is to implement that. I haven't got any C++ skills, but if there's another possibility, maybe I can do it.

#36 Hobbes

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:41 PM

OK, I may go on your nerves. But I have an idea for a new scenario, but we all know it allready. :P

In XCOM - Ufo defense the placing of units is handeled randomly for the attacked units, and the attacker has an also random but focused starting place. Maybe it could be implemented as "Inroad" or something like that?

In Xcom it was really good fun, if you didn't know, where the enemy was sitting. I don't know how difficult it is to implement that. I haven't got any C++ skills, but if there's another possibility, maybe I can do it.


There's something similar to that already proposed: Spawning Areas

#37 7Saturn

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:07 PM

Thanks, that fits it nearly completely. But I'm not sure if it will be randomly or chosen by the 1st player, where the landing zone is. But anyway it's great.

#38 Longshot

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:42 PM

Since we're throwing out suggestions here, I'd like to make one concerning throwing skill, if I may.

It seems that in this game some stats are simply put by the wayside for lack of points, and a higher priority on Tus, Energy, Health, Strength, and of course the all important firing accuracy. Even if I make a grenadier unit I don't see it as overly necessary to add points to throwing because the default "50" is more than suffiecient to toss a 'nade across at least a 1x1 area. Perhaps there is a range factor? Aside from that possible benefit I see none really that make it worth wasting points on throwing instead of firing accuracy.

Sooooo...if this is true, what might entice people to use throwing might be if you were able to lob nades' at reduced TUs for building up the skill. It would be worth it (for instance) for me to build up my throwing to 80 instead of firing if I could say...prime and lob two 'nades in a turn, or at least prime-lob-prime or something, depending on the 'nade.

Sorta like how the grenadier worked in Silent Storm or something, not that that game has anything on X-Com or UFO2k. I just liked that one aspect of it. It was actually worth it to invest in a 'nade unit because he got pretty lethal after he gained some levels.

Just a suggestion.

#39 Sporb

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 11:35 PM

as far as i know throwing accuracy doesnt do anything. same as bravery and psi. Judeau managed to implement it successfully in his realism addon but it isnt connected in ufo AFAIK

#40 7Saturn

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:00 AM

Something I wanted to know about that is, if the strength does anything to the range of throwing. The message "out of range" is sometimes annoying, but I didn't try it out, if the strength improves the distance of throwing. Does it?

#41 Sporb

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:17 AM

i think its a safe bet that it probably doesnt

#42 MosFet777

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:09 PM

Man, I hope I'm posting in the right place...

Today I managed to get the ethereal portrait (ethereal_inv.png) that I pulled from x-com into ufo2k.
The problem is that I can only bring it through the chameleon race.
I know that this is not a big issue right now ( I'ts still quite early for me.)

My question is - Is it a big project to be able to import .pngs to existing races, or is that a substantial undertaking ?
If the latter is true, would it be difficult to make armor ratings modable in chameleon related .lua files?

I know that I can bring in all of the alien race animations using the lunarsuit and soldier files(with portraits),
but they will all have the same armor as the chameleon.

Hmm..... I should probably elaborate this a little more.

I captured a screen of an ethereal ( live alien research)from x-com, then made ethereal_inv.png using lanarsuit as a template.
I modified the description line in the ethereal.lua file, and now the ethereal has a portrait in game.
I think the rest is legible enough.

Edited by MosFet777, 08 September 2006 - 11:32 PM.


#43 7Saturn

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 10:27 AM

I have a question/idea about the bullets, in UFO2K. In original UFO defense the screen went with the shots and grenades, so you could track the whole flying-way of them. In UFO2K it does not. Merely sometimes the bullets disappear, before hitting the target, and re-apper shortly in front of the target. (Is this a bug?)
Also the shooting itself is a bit buggy some time: You may hit walls, you physic couldn't hit, because they are covered by other walls.

#44 th15

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:04 AM

You only see bullets if the tile that they're in is within your line of sight. That's why the keep disappearing. This was put in place to prevent you from broadcasting your position whenever you fire. Previously, you wouldn't even need scouts since you could jsut spam shots at the point where enemy fire came from.

As for shooting, it isn't buggy, you just aren't used to the way hit detection happens in UFO2000 and xcom. The terrain sprites aren't used for hit detection of all, all tiles instead have a collision box defined for them. There's a button to hold down when firing that allows precise aiming.

#45 7Saturn

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 02:30 PM

Well, I think it is not going on ordinary. That thing with the hidden line of fire is interesting, thanks for the info.

But my second problem is like shown in the picture attached. The soldier shoots through a wall, and hits the wall behind it, without damaging the first one. I experienced this some times. I can't believe that this isn't a bug.

Attached File  wallbug.bmp   1.47K   155 downloads

#46 Sporb

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 04:27 PM

its probably down to bad hit detection masks for the tiles - the Xcom maps are known to be fairly buggy

Edited by Sporb, 09 September 2006 - 04:28 PM.


#47 Voller

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 02:27 AM

@Mosfet:

As far as I know, all units have been hardcoded up to this point. The original xcom units are all in the original xcom file format (.pck I think), and can only be modified with special software. The chamaeleon unit on the other hand is using .png and its appearance can be modified using normal tools. Its values, however, such as armor are all hard coded as well and can not easily be modified.

The system needs replacing as it is, and afaik work is being done on that. Eventually, you'll be able to add units with .png (for appearance) and .lua (for their values).

#48 MosFet777

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 10:25 AM

Thanks Voller. B)
I'll continue working on converting sprites over (in the hope that it will be possible)
as this would open up a lot of unit animations later on.

On another note, Has the Idea of collateral damage been tossed around?
In the scoring system, points could be deducted based on how much terrain destruction the player incurs.
It could be done as an option selected by the host, and maybe as simple as using a single value from each tiles mcd (health or armor or whatever)

With this enabled, players wouldn't be as eager to blow things up....

#49 MosFet777

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 11:35 AM

I just downloaded the new weaponset update(thanks sporb !). haven't played with it yet, but I'm going to enslave my children into multiplay for a while so we can test it out. B)

Is there (or can there be) a formula for determining weapon point based values (based on weapon attributes) so as to at least get in the ball park of balance.

Adding new weapon sets is great, but as far as I know, extensive play testing is the only way to determine if the point values are balanced <_<

#50 Prowler2885

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 02:34 PM

Thanks Voller. B)
I'll continue working on converting sprites over (in the hope that it will be possible)
as this would open up a lot of unit animations later on.

On another note, Has the Idea of collateral damage been tossed around?
In the scoring system, points could be deducted based on how much terrain destruction the player incurs.
It could be done as an option selected by the host, and maybe as simple as using a single value from each tiles mcd (health or armor or whatever)

With this enabled, players wouldn't be as eager to blow things up....

That is a good idea. I mean, every now and then, I find myself using HE weapons to find someone, and I cause a ton of damage to no avail at finding my target. Considering the situation (my army still alive chasing a lone soldier), it would suck if I lost because I destroyed the whole place in search of one guy.

Sounds like a good option.