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X-com 3 Revisited - Mod In Progress


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#1 Sorrow

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:45 AM

I'm working on a mod for X-Com 3 that will restore weapon damages and armor stats from Ufo.
I liked that UFO combat was more deadly and less RTS like. Also, weapon and equipment prices were more logical.

Key Features:
- X-Com 1 style powerful weapons - Laser Sniper rifle can easily kill an unarmored human, M4000 Machine gun has great RoF, etc.
- Even more powerful alien weapons
- Improved economy: craft weapons are more expensive than personal ones, prices are more like those from Ufo.

Examples of changes:
Weapons:
Megapol Armor = improved Personal Armor
Marsec Armor = Flying suit
Megapol Plasma Gun = Plasma Pistol
Heavy Launcher = Alien Blaster.
etc.

What you, people think about it?
Any ideas?

#2 j'ordos

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 12:52 PM

Souns like a good idea. Will you also change the damage modifiers? for example, IIRC most damage types did twice the normal damage vs humans in xcom1.
Will armor be available from the beginning or will you have to research it/will it be released later on the market?
Any plans for cityscape combat?
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#3 NKF

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 02:31 PM

Not to be nitpicky, the M4000 is already blistering fast (1 TU per autoshot in TB, 2.00 ROF in RT). What you could do is bring the toxigun rate of fire down a few pegs to keep the M4000 as the best ROF weapon in the game.

A recharging laser sniper rifle would be grand. It'll give it that old-reliable feel to it again.

Lots of tweaking and testing will be done to get the balance right. You can't just take a direct copy of the weapon stats from UFO. The devestator cannon for example is quite devestating (groan if you will) at only 70. Just imagine what is would be like at 110. That'll probably cut through a UFO's outer hull. I believe Apocalypse doubles the damage as well (Stun grapples at 90 can do up to but not exceeding 180 stun damage).

UFO also had no limit with the range of its weapons, however they were small scale maps compared to Apocalypse's maps. I myself think that Apocalypse weapons need the ranges limited, but your call.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 07 April 2007 - 02:35 PM.

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#4 Sorrow

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 04:01 PM

Thanks for the comment :) .

Souns like a good idea. Will you also change the damage modifiers? for example, IIRC most damage types did twice the normal damage vs humans in xcom1.

Hmm...
I'll check how what modifiers are in both games and I'll think about it...

Will armor be available from the beginning or will you have to research it/will it be released later on the market?

Armor will be avaible from the beginning - I want to keep the atmosphere of progress and advanced technology from the vanilla game. All buyable infantry weapons will be avaible from the beginning - there's no point in waiting to week 2 be able to buy some of weapons if other organisations already have them.

Any plans for cityscape combat?

Damages and ranges will be increased - small versions of weapons will do small damage, but full scale missiles, laser and plasma cannons mounted on interplanetary crafts will have X-Com-1 damages.
Ship and military vehicle armor will be upgraded too.

I'm planning to allow player to buy some civilian transport vehicles after I'll finish the first version.

I'm not sure what to do with prices. I'm considering two options - strike changing prices to X-Com 1 like ones or treating 1$ as 10 old $...

Not to be nitpicky, the M4000 is already blistering fast (1 TU per autoshot in TB, 2.00 ROF in RT). What you could do is bring the toxigun rate of fire down a few pegs to keep the M4000 as the best ROF weapon in the game.

It's still nowhere near a real machine gun :P .

Lots of tweaking and testing will be done to get the balance right. You can't just take a direct copy of the weapon stats from UFO. The devestator cannon for example is quite devestating (groan if you will) at only 70. Just imagine what is would be like at 110. That'll probably cut through a UFO's outer hull. I believe Apocalypse doubles the damage as well (Stun grapples at 90 can do up to but not exceeding 180 stun damage).

Hmm...
That would be a problem - I'm wondering if there's any way to edit damage resistance of tiles...

The point of copying the weapon stats is showing that mankind has inherited a devastating weapon technology after martian Aliens.
Now a new race of aliens come with even more devastating disruptor technology :D .

A recharging laser sniper rifle would be grand. It'll give it that old-reliable feel to it again.

I'm not sure if it's possible - I'd have to check if it would make organisations stop using laser pods.

I myself think that Apocalypse weapons need the ranges limited, but your call.

Why do you think that Apocalypse weapons need the ranges limited?

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 05:39 PM


Not to be nitpicky, the M4000 is already blistering fast (1 TU per autoshot in TB, 2.00 ROF in RT). What you could do is bring the toxigun rate of fire down a few pegs to keep the M4000 as the best ROF weapon in the game.

It's still nowhere near a real machine gun :P .

But the Marsec 4000 isn't a real machine gun :P

Realism vs gameplay balance ;)

#6 Sorrow

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 07:13 PM

Well, it's mainly a balance thing - there must be a reason to use a machinegun with all these rayguns, autocannons and rocketlaunchers available ;) . They have higher firepower but machinegun has a very high RoF.

Edited by Sorrow, 07 April 2007 - 07:14 PM.


#7 j'ordos

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 05:55 AM

Lots of tweaking and testing will be done to get the balance right. You can't just take a direct copy of the weapon stats from UFO. The devestator cannon for example is quite devestating (groan if you will) at only 70. Just imagine what is would be like at 110. That'll probably cut through a UFO's outer hull. I believe Apocalypse doubles the damage as well (Stun grapples at 90 can do up to but not exceeding 180 stun damage).

Hmm...
That would be a problem - I'm wondering if there's any way to edit damage resistance of tiles...


IIRC the map editor released by Mythos could edit tile damage resistance. Otherwise you can use the damage modifiers again, just reduce disruptor damage vs the two terrain entries in there. (although this would also affect the disruptor gun, not only the devastator).

A recharging laser sniper rifle would be grand. It'll give it that old-reliable feel to it again.

I'm not sure if it's possible - I'd have to check if it would make organisations stop using laser pods.


Quite sure that would work. I believe you can even set it to have completely unlimited ammo, just like the old laser weapons. Just set 'Recharging' to 'No' and 'Ammo Types Used' to 0. It works for the built-in weapons the aliens have (spitter, megaspawn, ...)

edit: tried it, you also need to set 'Max. Primary Rounds' to 255 (None), but I could not get starting equipment to leave out the pods and raided orgs still carry them as well.
edit2: as of version 2.33a it's possible to edit guard equipment with apoc'd.

Edited by j'ordos, 04 January 2008 - 08:58 AM.

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#8 Sorrow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:58 AM

Hmm...
Where can I find the Mythos map editor?

***

edit: tried it, you also need to set 'Max. Primary Rounds' to 255 (None), but I could not get starting equipment to leave out the pods and raided orgs still carry them as well.

Hmmm...
I'll leave it as it is and change the damage to one of heavy laser (it's a sniper rifle after all - one shot - one kill, also I remember using HL as a sniper weapon in X-COM1) - I'll explain it by wanting maximum laser firepower without the need to carry a big powersource of HL.

Edited by Sorrow, 10 April 2007 - 10:10 AM.


#9 Zombie

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 12:45 PM

Hmm...
Where can I find the Mythos map editor?

That's strange, I could have sworn I had a copy of this somewhere on my computer. Ah well, you can always find it at Freelancer. :blush1:

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#10 Sorrow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 02:23 PM

Thanks.

...

Damn, it looks challengning :D .

#11 j'ordos

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 03:40 PM

Yeah I remember that editor was quite hard to get to work and even harder to work with :) Seems you can do some cool stuff with it though, looking at the guide that is also at that site. UFO's with traps and stuff, how about a map pack while you're at it? ;)
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#12 Sorrow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 04:21 PM

Well, some things on ufo's (weapons and engines for example) will be more explosive - triggering an explosion of a dimension missile is a very, very, very bad idea :D .

As for a mappack. I don't know. Maybe after I'll finish the 1.0 version ;) .

Edited by Sorrow, 10 April 2007 - 05:02 PM.


#13 NKF

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 12:22 AM

Is it possible to make the batteries recharge as opposed to the gun? Probably not. Would've been a great idea though.

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#14 j'ordos

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 04:30 AM

Is it possible to make the batteries recharge as opposed to the gun? Probably not. Would've been a great idea though.

- NKF

LOL it actually IS possible, in the agent equipment 2 section, the ammo/item entries (2/X). There's a 'Recharge Speed (?)' field that is used for the teleporter, but it can be used for regular ammo as well. You'll need to test which speed would be good though.
Great idea indeed NKF! :)
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#15 NKF

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 04:59 AM

I'm thinking about how compatible it would be with the ammo loading and unloading, as normal ammo is counted by the bullet. How would it work with the recharging system? Would it recharge in the gun, or out of the gun? And what happens when you combine ammo stacks (in the battlescape)?

But if it does work, one idea is to give the batteries a small charge. This way you can benefit from carrying several batteries.

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#16 j'ordos

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 05:32 AM

You're right, ammo pods outside the gun reset to 0 after battle (edit: next battle it's back at full though. Can also be avoided by only saving the recharging to the tactical part of apocalypse (tacp.exe), you'll have to do that by hand though, or with the beta version of apoc'd 2.00 which still seperated editing of tacp&ufo2p.exe) and when you stack them one pod is set to 0 and the other gets both, going beyond it's max rounds. Swapping pods in&out of the gun works fine though.
Ammo only recharges when out of the gun.
The Recharge Speed value is how many rounds recharge every X seconds/turns (not sure how many)
I wonder what happens when you try to stack two personal teleporters :)

Edited by j'ordos, 11 April 2007 - 05:58 AM.

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#17 Sorrow

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 04:54 PM

Recharging ammo pods wouldn't make much sense settingwise. Lasers in Ufo already had an infinite powersource without any ammo pods. Ammo pods would make sense only if someone would like to use laser without wasting space/weight on a powersource...

#18 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 12:19 PM

Wait a second? isnt the point of a mod to do something that hasnt been done before? :P!

I personally think what we would Really need in this is to make a low healing recharge weapon, give it like -2 damage melee range, moderate cool down probably.

Or, could make it based on Psi, so then healing doesnt effect stupid androids! :P
You cant give blood infusions to metal..
it would also give more of a purpose to mutants, than to just stun and stand.

Its a very rough idea I know, Im not even sure if it would be possible, with our current tech understanding of X-coms game code. :x...

Oh lord Im rambling >_>..

Good luck with your mod :o
Will there be Graphical changes as well?
Id personally like to play Ufo in real time just for shits and giggles :)
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#19 NKF

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:13 AM

I actually quite like the idea of separate recharing batteries. You'd end up using them like the teleporters. Use one up, stow it away and swap in a fresh battery. Repeat until that is worn out, swap it out for the one you put back and soldier on. Besides, UFO approached matters in a simple manner, and did not have recharging devices. Recharging weapons in Apocalypse give infinite ammo weapons reasonable limits, where they can be used at full capacity when fully charged, but at minimal capacity once the battery is used up.

There is one big problem with using recharging batteries however. You won't get an empty clip back from a gun. Thus ruining the whole idea of using recharing ammo clips.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 16 April 2007 - 12:15 AM.

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#20 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 02:00 PM

Would there be a way to code it so that the clip kicks out of it at 1 or 2 ammo? :x
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#21 Sorrow

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:47 AM

Hmm...
I have a question - I statrted playing turn based and I noticed that all fire-modes in M4000 cost 1 AP...
How the aimed shot costs are calculated then? I thought that they simply multiply the AP cost or add a certain value to it...

#22 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 01:06 PM

Do they fire only one shot?
I could see it being balanced out if it acted as a Burst fire on the highest setting xD
then singles on the accurate.
Couple shots on the snap
3 on the .. Highest Setting :D
I forgot what its called D:...

Im probably just wasting a box here, but its somthing to read that makes everyone excited that theres a post ^_^!
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#23 Sorrow

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 02:49 PM

Sadly, there's no real auto setting in X3 - changing the mode to auto just makes it fire faster.

#24 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:05 PM

What the heck do you mean by Auto? >.>..
Firing faster is what Auto does in real life and in games.
If you set the gun down on Auto, it doesnt keep firing. Thats only in cartoons..

Stupid Buzz Lightyear, killing our youth with laser myths.
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#25 Sorrow

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:22 AM

I mean that soldiers don't fire in bursts but still fire in "semi-auto" but faster.

#26 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:09 PM

Oh, you mean how they dont just continuesly fire rapidly like a real machine gun?

Thats already been discussed, Machine guns are too fast for that :P
Although I suppose if you wanted to increase the speed to twice what it is and cut the damage to a little under half of what it is now.. that would probably work
Just dont get the idea you'll have ammo afterwards ROFL
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#27 Sorrow

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:17 PM

I'm still playin... err... working on the mod.

*I've solved the Sniper Rifle dilemma - it's a modernized Heavy Laser with a sniper scope - it's fed with clips based on those for Plasma Rifle instead of internal power source. It allowed to save a lot of weight and make the weapon less cumbersome.

*I changed the damage and accuracy of acid spittle to that of a Celatid. Now, it's less useless - I actually lost a Power Suit armoured agent to an alien egg.

*I increased the speed of heavy engines and alien craft. Also, both Valkyrie and Hawk are more similar to the old Avenger in stats (because now they are getting owned by bikes with autocannons).
Now UFO's are faster and have a greater chance to deploy aliens, also, fighters have more survivability.

I'm trying to change the fuel for flyers to Elerium...
I'm not sure how to set the parameters like consumption, etc. though.
Any ideas how it works?

***
Heh, after seeing the Aiki-Knight's Blog, I decided to start my own :D .

I started a new campaign on medium. It's the first day, I started by launching a quick campaign against the Cult of Sirius.
I made a first mission with 8 from default troops without losses - the enemy was grouped on one spot and quickly fell to machine gun and autocannon (explosive) fire. The rest was an easy mopping up of single cultists.
XCOMR2.jpg


In mission two I used the following organisation:
1. Designated Marksman with Megapol Laser Sniper Gun.
2. Two Riflemen with Marsec M4000 Machine Guns - in one squad a rifleman was equipped with Marsec Heavy Launcher and served as a fire support.
3. Grenadier with Megapol Auto Cannon.
4. Scout with Megapol Plasma Gun and Motion Scanner - one of the scouts had Marsec High Explosive.

I used two such squads.

I had a similar battle in the central point of the map - I used the explosive charge to destroy the central doors and walls. My scout have seen two enemy soldiers in the room behind the doors, so he left the explosive in that room primed to 1 turn hoping that they will storm the door and get caught in the blast.
It didn't happen and my second squad went to secure the flank, a big room with altars covered with red sheets - they had a small encounter with two Megapol Laser Sniper Gun equipped cultists - before they could react they got mowed down with HE autocannon fire a third one equipped with a mere Lawpistol fired back, but he could do nothing to an armored agent. Another agent destroyed a fragment of red sheet with his Plasma Gun, and then executed the cultist with a point blank shoot.

Then a single enemy fireteam went through the central breach - they managed to lightly wound a rifleman with their Marsec M4000 Machine Guns. I had three missiles to waste, so I fired one at them - they got instantly annihilated.
XCOMR0.jpg
In next turn I moved the missile wielding rifleman to another covered altar - he saw three cultists and fired a missile at one of them - they all died and the mission ended. The explosions decreased the budget of the enemy to -14900$.
XCOMR3.jpg
I found out that Marsec Heavy Launcher is a major live-saver - it almost never misses and can obliterate whole groups of enemies.


I bought a new agent and launched a third strike in order to cripple the Cult of Sirius. This time I had to fight near grav lifts - again, I used the Marsec Heavy Launcher to eliminate groups of enemies and finished them off with other weapons.
This time I lost two agents - a Scout and a Rifleman - both got killed by a single Megapol Laser Sniper Gun.
The scout went ahead to secure a grav lift - he've noticed an enemy sniper and fired at him, wounding him - the sniper fired back and killed him with one shot.
I made an ambush at second grav lift with a Rifleman, Designated Marksman and Grenadier from second squad. The sniper ran out of the grav-lift and killed the Rifleman with one shot. My Designated Marksman took him down with two hits (Which is pretty amusing, taking in account that the cultist killed two armored agents with single hits.)
Those snipers are very dangerous, but the computer tends to waste a lot of AP by running around aimlessly - it's just as the game AI wouldn't use the advantages of TB combat.
XCOMR1.jpg

Edited by Sorrow, 09 August 2007 - 06:21 PM.


#28 j'ordos

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:30 PM

Fuel consumption is constant, regardless what value you enter in apoc'd. NKF found out the ammo consumption doesn't really change after all, it's the same for the engines.
So when is the release date? ;)
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#29 Sorrow

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:11 PM

Fuel consumption is constant, regardless what value you enter in apoc'd. NKF found out the ammo consumption doesn't really change after all, it's the same for the engines.

*Elerium powered engines get scrapped <_< .*

So when is the release date? ;)

I'm not sure. I have to test the whole thing to see if everything works.

#30 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:01 PM

Hey Sorrow,

First, you rock. Thanks for doing this. Second, I'm curious about the heavy launcher blast - it looks HUGE! Why does it say "too far" on the screen in the one picture? How did you do that?

#31 Steelion

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:25 PM

Hmm. An interesting idea, to be sure, but I doubt I'll use it. I never liked the one-hit kills in Xcom 1- especially power armor. What's the point of wasting elerium, money, and time on armor that only rarely stops a one-shot kill? So I almost never used them.
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#32 NKF

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 12:41 AM

Armour in UFO/TFTD does work. You have to get down to a bit of number crunching to see how. Think numbers. The odds of a squad wearing Power Armour/Ion Armor surviving are considerably better than the same squad in their overalls/default diving suits. Of course, it mostly comes down to resources. At the start, you're better off mass producing personal armour/plastic aqua armor. Once the elerium/zrbite starts to touch the store room roof, you should be at the point where you can easily arm new recruits right off the street with flying suits/Mag. Ion armor without hesitation.

For squad based games where you control lots of units, one-hit kills work fine in a turn based game. However it doesn't translate too well to squad based realtime, even with a pause and time compression settings. Not poo-poo-ing the ideas for the mod or anything, mind you! If done right, I'm sure it will be just as entertaining.

There are some weapons and monster attacks in the plain vanilla game that come very close to instant-kill attacks. Like standing on an exploding vortex mine without shields, the queenspawn spit and getting hit by a devestator beam when wearing basic armour, or no armour. Getting a lone agent caught off guard by a multiworm in close quarters and its machine-gun-like spit attack also isn't very pretty.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 11 August 2007 - 12:43 AM.

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#33 Sorrow

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 09:32 AM

Hey Sorrow,

First, you rock. Thanks for doing this. Second, I'm curious about the heavy launcher blast - it looks HUGE! Why does it say "too far" on the screen in the one picture? How did you do that?

Thanks :) .

Heavy Launcher is a reincarnation of Blaster Launcher - in X-Com 3, humans inherited both the alien and X-Com technology. Now it really means something :) .
It says too far, because the agant has not enough AP to move to that field.

I never liked the one-hit kills in Xcom 1- especially power armor. What's the point of wasting elerium, money, and time on armor that only rarely stops a one-shot kill? So I almost never used them.

Actually, as NKF said, armor is a major life-saver - remember that damage formula for units is: 0%-200% - for a sniper rifle (85) it means that the damage will be 0-170.
Power Armor torso will save the character from injuries with 0-110 and from death with 110-140. That means that the roll must be more than 130% to wound at all and more than 165% to kill.
Machine Guns, Auto Cannons and Grenades can't damage the PA wearing character at all.

Also, they are a major life saver where it comes to explosions - explosions damage units at 50%-150% - so an armor protection often helps to survive a blast and can allow to avoid the damage completely when one is far enough from the center.

For squad based games where you control lots of units, one-hit kills work fine in a turn based game. However it doesn't translate too well to squad based realtime, even with a pause and time compression settings.

Ah...
That explains why the weapon damages got lowered in first place - to make the game more attractive to RTS fans <_< . That's why I dislike hybrid systems and squad based RT games, unless they have a Close Combat style AI that takes care for micromanagament.

Not poo-poo-ing the ideas for the mod or anything, mind you! If done right, I'm sure it will be just as entertaining.

Hmm...
I played with this mod in RTwP before and I didn't have any problems with damage values. I stopped playing RTwP, because the pause gives a player unrealistic amount of control over situation, while pure RT unrealistically limits the control.

#34 Sorrow

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 08:28 PM

*****

I've done some base construction work and saw that Plasma Defence is very underpriced. Too bad there's no way to edit base facilities :( . Or the Plasma Defence's weapons...

I had a first UFO encounter - I got only Valkyrie and two Phoenix hovercars - I spread them out - one vehicle for every gate, hovercars armed with double plasma guns and Valkyrie with two heavy laser cannons.
The gate near Valkyrie spew out 2 UFOs and the one near one of cars 3. I managed to destroy all but one of them, but lost the car in process and Valkyrie got moderately damaged.
I decreased the RoF of laser and plasma cannons yesterday and now they fire every 4-6 seconds - I need a hoverbike with autocannon as an escort for energy weapon armed vehicles.

I bought two hoverbikes and I'm out of cash. It seems that now I'm forced to start a war with an organisation to gain money.

I didn't want to exploit the "indestructible organisations with unlimited equipment" bug, so I went to war with Psyke - a war against drugs ;) .

Due to losses I started to use the following organisation:
1. Designated Marksman with Megapol Laser Sniper Gun. DM
2. Three Riflemen with Marsec M4000 Machine Guns. R
3. Grenadier with Megapol Auto Cannon. G
4. Scout with Megapol Plasma Gun and Motion Scanner. S

I used one squad.

My first attack went pretty good - it was a junkyard style map - I spread out my agents to cover a large terrain and started moving from cover to cover.
It turned out that all the enemies are in one corner - my R encountered a group of 5 Enemies, including one with Heavy Launcher - I killed the closest E with machine gun fire and retreated to cover. I moved a DM and R in order to cover the approach route and started moving rest of my troops in general direction of the enemy forces.

For some reason they didn't follow my R. I moved in my DR and shot two closest E. A group of three remained.
I moved in the two R and thrown AP Grenades at them, exploding some equipment laying on the ground which lightly wounded my DM, but I didn't manage to kill them, then one of the R thrown a Stun Gas Grenade. My G fired 5 long range aimed shots at the E, but all missed. I moved in a S and thrown additional 2 APG at them killing them and getting wounded and destroying some brush in process - it turned out that there are four more E, one of which was armed with Marsec Mini Launcher.

I moved another rifleman that was near the edge of the map that was behind the E positions closer to them.
I ordered one of my R to drop a Smoke Grenade and prayed that the enemy wouldn't kill them all.

To my surprise, all the E except the one armed with MML panicked and one of them went berserk killing one of his own with a Plasma Gun. The one with MML moved into the stun gas cloud and lost consciousness.

I moved one R behind them and killed one of them and wounded another one with MG fire - I've noticed that MGs aren't very reliable - sometimes they need as much as 5 hits to kill an enemy and miss often.

The rest of E got killed with massed MG fire.

I decided that I need more APG for close combat and made every R carry 4 APG. APG are still the old Grenades with a bit more power (hmm... maybe I'll increase the power of all old earth weapons by 10% to show the advancement of technology...) - they aren't Elerium based, because normal Grenades are more affordable - on the other hand both Marsec HE and mines are Elerium based for maximum damage.

Also, I armed one of my R with MML for quick fire support. For some reason I forgot to replace the S.

Next battle was in a wall surrounded slum complex. I started outside the wall and entered the complex with a G and DM.

My R moved forward along the wall encountering a group of three E, one of them armed with Megapol Laser Sniper Gun and one with Marsec Heavy Launcher. My R fired at one with MHL wounding him (and missing a lot). My R with MML moved into Visual Range and fired at the E with MHL, killing him, but failing to kill the rest. Not wanting to lose the precious MHL ammo, I fired at E with MLSG, but didn't manage to kill him - he fired back moderately wounding my the R with MML (He lost 15 HP, so he was hit for about 55-65 - the armour saved his live.). Two other R finished the job and one of them scouted ahead detecting 4 more E, including one with MHL and one with MML. The R hidden behind a pillar of the wall. One of the R from the main group dropped a smoke.

The E fired at them with indirect fire from MML and MHL - MML didn't hit and MHL hit the ground very close the E, obliterating them completely. The E managed to eliminate itself, but sadly, they destroyed most of equipment of the previous group.

I moved my G further into the complex - I made contact with another three E - one of them was armed with MHL - I eliminated him with HE fire. I needed to kill the rest to make sure that they wont pick it up.
I moved my G to them. The E fired at him - he was hit with two AP shells from Megapol Autocannon and with a plasma beam, but the armour protected him from any injuries - he killed both of them with point-blank AP MA fire.

It turned out that there are 2 more E - the DM moved into visual range and killed them with single MLSG shots.


It turned out that I was right - Armor is very good in protecting agents - problems start when extremely heavy weapons are used.

Eh...
I need some sleep...

*****


I'm thinking about the price balance - I've noticed that according to Ufopedia, ships are rented in Ufo - does the same thing happen in Apocalypse too?

#35 Sorrow

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 04:32 PM

*****

I bought myself a single Airtrans - it has a high transport capacity and allows me to send my Valkyrie to a building close to a gate.

I started using Flying Armor today - the results are devastating - I used 2 android G armoured with FA. E didn't stand a chance - I completed two raids, one on Sirius Temple and one on Psyke without any losses.

The protection offered by FA that allows a lot more aggressive tactics - basically my two G just went in and killed their enemies with a hail of HE MAC shells - those E that were especially dangerous (those with MHL and MML) were eliminated with MML missiles.
I used MHL to destroy a group of E hiding inside a slum building. 5 E died from two missiles.
XCOMR4.jpg

Then I raided a CoS temple, again without losses.

I started removing buildings from organisations that are going bankrupt and are being raided - Psyke have lost one slum building and CoS lost two temples.

EDIT:
On the third day of campaign I "destroyed" CoS and Psyke. Now I have 57700$ left. It seems that I'll have to find a new enemy soon :D .

Edited by Sorrow, 12 August 2007 - 06:50 PM.


#36 j'ordos

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 08:18 AM

*****

I've done some base construction work and saw that Plasma Defence is very underpriced. Too bad there's no way to edit base facilities :( . Or the Plasma Defence's weapons...


There, I updated apoc'd with facilities data just for you ^_^
What each facility does seems to be harcoded though.

I'm thinking about the price balance - I've noticed that according to Ufopedia, ships are rented in Ufo - does the same thing happen in Apocalypse too?

There's no monthly fee for the vehicles in apocalypse as far as I know, so my guess is they are purchased, not leased.
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#37 Sorrow

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 11:19 AM

*****

I've done some base construction work and saw that Plasma Defence is very underpriced. Too bad there's no way to edit base facilities :( . Or the Plasma Defence's weapons...


There, I updated apoc'd with facilities data just for you ^_^

That's great, thanks a lot ^_^ !

Now I have to restart the game to make the various market changes work :D (heh... I think that that explains why the mod is in making for so long XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ).

I'm thinking about the price balance - I've noticed that according to Ufopedia, ships are rented in Ufo - does the same thing happen in Apocalypse too?

There's no monthly fee for the vehicles in apocalypse as far as I know, so my guess is they are purchased, not leased.

:D

#38 Sorrow

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 07:11 PM

I restarted the game to take market changes into account.

I have some financial trouble, because now there are a lot of things I can't afford, like buying hordes of Hovercars (48000) for example.
I started the game with a standard campaign against the CoS. I lost three agents - 2 from missiles and one killed by his own mine.
I had a heroic action, where an agent besieged by three cultists (including one with MLSG and one in PP - a very probable death) dropped a MHE under her feet, which killed two of her opponents and survived it XD .
She jumped into a hole left by the explosion.
I managed to completely destroy CoS on day one and I had 50000$ left.

I lost two Hovercars (I had 3 Hovercars, Valkyrie and 2 Hoverbikes) in the first alien attack, but managed to stop Aliens.

During next alien attack I lost one Hovercar and my Valkyrie (which got into a crossfire between a Probe and a Scout) leaving my fleet crippled.
I had one alien drop in an Evonet processor.

My agent proceeded to investigate and it turned out that all aliens (3 Spitters, 1 Antrhopod, 1 Multiworm and 1 Brainsucker) are in one shack.
My two agents - a Scout and a Grenadier ended their turn near that shack.
Suddenly all heck broke loose - multiworm and spitters spat at my agents, but didn't manage to hit them despite both weapons and critters having accuracy of 100% (something like a Celatid spittle). Finally an Anthropod came out and killed my Grenadier with a single Disruptor ray.
I responded by killing it with a MML missile, but destroyed his Disruptor in process :( .
I used other missiles to kill off the Multiworm and Hyperworms and 2 of Spitters.
An agent with MMG finished off the last Spitter and the mission ended.

Because of financial trouble I had to start another ware - with Psyke this time.
I've done two missions against them and managed to buy myself another Hovercar (after first mission).

#39 Sorrow

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 01:38 PM

There was a poll for this on the forums, Ill edit back with a link if I can find it

Edit: Ah, no poll, but if you take a look at this its fairly clear that people would have enjoyed a remake of Apoc more than the other two games :x http://www.xcomufo.c...topic=242025100

Sorry Ufo addicts if I offended you in any way :x

I finished the war with Psyke with about 350000$ on my account. I managed to buy myself a single Valkyrie.

I had another Scouts and Probes raid - I shot them all down except one which I allowed to drop troops so that I could retrieve the Disruptor technology.
I had a difficult mission during which I lost two agents to Hyperworm reaction attacks and one got heavily wounded with Spitter acid.

I started researching Disruptor Gun, but I didn't have money for replacement craft. When week 2 started I decided to go after Osiron - they have a lot of buildings and are powerful enough to not get destroyed too fast.
It turned out that it was too powerful.

First mission was relatively successful - I lost only one agent.

I started a mission next to a large group of Osiron agents including 3 snipers and one with MHL.
I killed them all in one turn, losing one Rifleman to reaction fire from MLSG.
It turned out that the group is much larger than I've seen - it was 3 screen deep!

My squad which was standing in a neat line to maximise firepower was suddenly raked with HE and AP autocannon shells and Laser and Plasma rays.
An indirect fired missile hit ground about 10 meters from them.
It was horrible I expected a quick victory and a lot of spoils of war, but it turned out that in turn two 3/4 of the squad was severely wounded and only one agent was healthy.

The healthy agent - a Rifleman charged through the smoke and killed the closest enemy with a point blank MMG burst and then ran to another enemy and killed him in the same fashion.
Suddenly, he was hit with a reaction fired mini missile. Most of weapons that lied on the ground got destroyed with resulting explosions.
I didn't want to lose any more agents so, I finished off all visible foes with rapid fire MML.
The rest of the mission was a simple clean up.

It seems that getting cover should have a greater priority than destroying the enemy. Also, I shouldn't fear to destroy equipment with MML - a quick annihilation of the enemy is more important than profit.

I lost half of my best agents and I was forced to abandon war with Osiron - I paid them for damages and focused on inevitable UFO attack.
It came about a hour later - two groups of big ships - one 2 ship group and one 3 ship. The first group was engaged by my Valkyrie and a hoverbike - the second was engaged by a hovercar and a hoverbike - one more hovercar and two hoverbikes were guarding another gate.
The alien ships were incredibly fast for their size - just as the ships from the First Alien War.
The hovercar got instantly destroyed and the Valkyrie got severely damaged with a few hits - their weapons had higher rate of fire than ours.

I didn't manage to shot down any of enemy ships (I suspect that I would need one or even two Valkyries or a Hawk Sky Warrior with twin plasma cannons and most powerful engines to be able to intercept them.) but the harassment stopped all but one from dropping aliens.

I went on two alien missions both including a lot of non humanoid aliens and a single Anthropod.
It seems that I'll have to attack Osiron again...

Edited by Sorrow, 19 August 2007 - 01:39 PM.


#40 Sorrow

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:33 AM

I finished off Osiron today. For some weird reason, despite being practically bankrupt, they had tens of soldiers with the best equipment available.
I started using squads that are composed of Power Suit agents mixed with Personal Armor.
I lost nine agents during the whole war.

I managed to buy myself a new Hovercar, Hawk Air Warrior and new engines for Hawk and Valkyrie. I have 90000$ left and I intend to buy plasma cannons.

I'm thinking about changing tactics - I'll treat my heavy craft as capital ships and hovercars and hoverbikes as escort ships.
I have two "fleets" to cover two gates.

#41 Sorrow

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 09:21 AM

It seems that my game turned into heck. Now I'm fighting with Aliens only.

Every incursion consists of 3-6 capital ships and a few scouts. I'm having trouble with fighting them, because I have only two capital ships - two Hawk Air Warriors (I lost my Valkyrie) - Independent and Invincible.
Also, I have 2-4 Phoenix Hovercars that act as fighters and 3-8 Hoverbikes that act like light fighters.

The war is pretty brutal - I'm losing 1-2 Hovercars per battle and 1-3 Hoverbikes.
The enemy ships are tough and shooting down capital ships requires concentrated firepower - something that I can't afford now.
Worser still, the aliens are using shields that make destroying their ships even more difficult.

***

* I decided to make building times of small items (weapons, etc.) shorter in order to show some aspects of technical progress (use of replicators, etc.) and to make the game match the faster speed of gameplay.
* I'm trying enabled the Dimension Destabiliser.

***

I started producing and selling disruptor weapons - it's the only thing that allows me to replace losses.

The groundfighting is hard - I'm losing agents due to alien explosives - they are as strong as old Blaster Bombs - also, aliens tend to have primed boomeroids/vortex mines on them - I lost a group of agents when one of them shot an alien point blank with Machine Gun - it triggered a chain reaction of catastrophic proportions.

I'm trying to create tactics that would deal both with alien explosives and alien Devestator Cannons which are very dangerous - they can wound or kill an agent in Flying Suit (alien explosives can destroy/wound groups of agents, while Devastator Cannon fire can kill isolated agents.

I created a manufacture and research base in a former Temple of Sirius - I have two workshops each spitting out a Devastator Cannon every each 10 hours. Tommorow I will have an Advanced Biohemistry lab ready - maybe it will bring a much needed breakthrough...

#42 Sorrow

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 03:51 AM

So...
Is anyone interested in playing it?

#43 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 05:24 PM

Sure, Why not? I could always use a little revive of interest.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

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#44 j'ordos

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 10:11 AM

Ofcourse. Well actually most of my time goes to apoc'd & the megapol mod ATM (not to mention exams :) ) so I don't know how far I'll get ^_^
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#45 Sorrow

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 04:48 PM

Ok, that's the latest version that I have. It requires unzipping it into the X-Com:Apocalypse folder - just backup the Ufo2p.exe and TACP.EXE first.

Attached Files



#46 j'ordos

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 10:19 PM

Hmm it crashes when I try to run it here, using the EU version (red background)... :( Perhaps I should create some sort of import/export function for apoc'd.
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#47 Sorrow

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 01:56 AM

Oh :( . Hmm... an import function would be nice.

#48 j'ordos

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 03:05 AM

Possibly this can be fixed by adding your XCOMAPOC.EXE file too? I have the same problem with the megapol mod, haven't tried that solution tho. Import/export function wouldn't be too hard to add, but currently string editing is impossible so it'd be limited to data.
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#49 Sorrow

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 04:55 AM

Ok, here's the Xcomapoc.exe.

BTW.
Would it be possible to make Apoc'd's savegame editor able to automatically set an organisation's relations with everything to 0?

edit by j'ordos: attachment removed.

Edited by j'ordos, 03 February 2008 - 09:32 AM.


#50 j'ordos

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 07:36 AM

Didn't work either... Don't really know what other problem there could be, perhaps one of the smallfont/bigfont files in the ufodata folder?
I'll try to add a 'Fill' function to the next version of Apoc'd, that should be able to do what you describe.
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