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Poll: What is the best weapon in Apocalypse? (471 member(s) have cast votes)

What is the best weapon in Apocalypse?

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#51 miceless

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:42 AM

Oh, THAT grenade. :Blush:

I dont have anyone that has that high an accuracy, so i wouldnt know. I do more damage to the surrounding structures than i do to the aliens. :LOL:

At least i have toxiguns now, and that reduces that somewhat. Toxiguns rule by the way. Sooooo glad they go through shields.

Edited by miceless, 01 August 2003 - 04:43 AM.

"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#52 Brute

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 07:15 AM

Isnt the dev cannon two handed? Wont you lose accuracy using a thing in the other hand? Or is your guy so damn accurate it doesnt matter?

he's not only good at shooting. also he is master at the activities like...
:boxing:
:spank:
:uzzi2:
:laser:
:uzzi:
:flame:
:plasma:

:devillaugh: :devillaugh: :devillaugh: :devillaugh:
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#53 BurnThemALL

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:10 PM

I think you named the most important activities a XCOM soldier has to "apply" to the enemy! :psychosanta: :beer:
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#54 miceless

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:07 AM

he's not only good at shooting. also he is master at the activities like...
...
:spank:
...

Ahh yes, that well known xcom activity. :D
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#55 Brute

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:54 PM

LOL
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#56 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:56 PM

:LOL:
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#57 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:58 PM

Tryin to get ur post count up? :LOL:

#58 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:00 PM

Do you have to ask?? <_<
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#59 Brute

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:02 PM

LOL again -Tryin to get my post count up...
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#60 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:06 PM

Something tells me j'ordos is a LITTLE bit annoyed.

Anyway, the point of this post:

Do people actually USE rockets?? I barely use them on UFOs when I have basic tech, then I ditch them once I research disruptors!
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#61 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:11 PM

They're great fun in raids :beer:
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#62 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:23 AM

I voted for toxiguns finally. Now that i am more experienced I have decided they are most certainly the best.
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#63 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:38 AM

Nah, they cannot compare to a large squad carrying disruptor cannons!!
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#64 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 12:34 AM

Against humans, true, but the toxiguns bring those aliens down so fast!

There should have been toxigun ammo for use against human scum. :hate:
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#65 Brute

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 02:12 AM

Against humans, true, but the toxiguns bring those aliens down so fast!

There should have been toxigun ammo for use against human scum. :hate:

what is a toxigun?

a gun launching some canules... canules have anti alien genetic material toxins...

the canule is ignored by the personal shields and delivers the toxin alien

megapol armor is strong enough to stop the canule... if you research and find a new canule -that pierces the megapol armor-, it would be stopped by the personal shields...

ami making myself clear

NOTE: all are from my field of view
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#66 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 02:51 AM

Im not sure what you mean by a 'canule' (do you mean capsules?) but this is how i see it:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toxiguns launch some kind of projectile (dart, bullet, etc) with toxin tips. The toxins are specifically targetted to the alien DNA.

In theory, a personal shield that can deflect missiles and explosions (which they do) should be able to deflect darts/bullets (can a shield protect against Marsec machine guns?). I think the 'in game' perspective is that the shields only prtoect against energy weapons, and that explosions count as energy (i suppose thats somewhat logical). Therefore, it doesnt protect against projectiles (such as bullets and darts)(and I would personally include missiles, but hey) so the projectiles go through. Once the dart is through the toxing gets to the alien and does its thing.

Now, plain old physical armors would have normal protection effects on bullets and darts (one could argue a dart weapon will never work on any armored target, but we'll ignore that) so that if the bullet is soaked up by the armor then the toxin wouldnt reach the target. If it does get through its different...

On humans, the toxin is irrelevent, because the toxin should have no effect anyway. The only damage they suffer is from the projectile, which can be anywhere from minimal (i.e. darts) to normal (i.e. bullets).

On aliens, it depends somewhat. You can say that one of three things can happen on a successful hit:
(1.) The projectile hits, but is absorbed by armor. The toxin does not reach the alien so it has no effect. Damage: None
(2.) Hit, the projectile reaches the alien, and the toxin enters the alien but has no effect. This only applies if you decide that the toxin can sometimes not work. Damage: Projectile only
(3.) Hit, projectile reaches alien, toxin enters alien and has an effect. Damage: Toxin and projectile.

Also, number (1) depends on something. If the armor an alien wears is part of the alien then one could argue that the toxin could take effect even if the projectile hits only armor. You have several options:
(A.) The aliens armor is deemed independent from the alien, even though it is theoretically built into the alien. Option (1) still applies.
(B.) Alien armor is of alien DNA but is not part of the actual alien. In this case one could argue the toxin could damage the armor somehow.
(C.) The armor is deemed a part of the alien whole, so even though the bullet does not hit the alien's vital parts, the toxin could spread to the alien and still have an effect. The toxin could be applied as anywhere from 0% to 100% effective in this case.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There. Thats my analysis of aliens/armor/toxins. :D
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#67 BurnThemALL

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 03:02 PM

Me after reading your analysis: :wacko: :blink: ^_^

Seriously, you made some very good points miceless! :beer: I never tried to shoot aliens wirh personal shields with machine guns. I have to try this! :wave:
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#68 Brute

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 03:05 PM

bullets are stopped by personal shiels
there are 3 ammunition type bypass the shields

-toxins
-incendiary
-stun -gas, grapple-
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#69 BurnThemALL

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 03:19 PM

bullets are stopped by personal shiels
there are 3 ammunition type bypass the shields

-****
-incendiary
-****

Incendiary! I knew it! :flame: :crazy:
Thanks Brute! :beer:
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#70 j'ordos

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:02 PM

Stun Grapples do not bypass personal shields. I was very surprised (and annoyed)to find out that stunning those anthropods that way does not preserve their shields :cussing:
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#71 Brute

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 06:27 PM

Stun Grapples do not bypass personal shields

are u absolutely sure about that? :huh?:
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#72 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 11:50 PM

I tested this out last night and Brute is indeed correct. Machine gun bullets are indeed stopped by shields. At this point I can think of no reasonable explanation as to how the toxigun can bypass the shields. :huh?:

EDIT: I suppose one could possibly argue that if the toxigun bullets hit the shield, the alien could still get splashed by the toxin so it could still work. I think i am clutching at straws and scraping the bottom of the barrel here...

As for stuns, i did not include those in my testing arena. I will try that one out later. However, i have never had them not work, so i agree with Brute. j'ordos, are you absolutely sure they dont work?

Incendiary does indeed work through the shields, but i find it so slow to kill them that its not that effective. Also, the bloody smoke gets in the way.

If you are fighting humans and want to save the shields, i still find that toxiguns work quite well. With enough men opening up on them it doesnt take long to kill them because they have no armor (never seen another (non XCOM) human with armor on...)

If you really dont care about a few measly shield units, then HE is the way to go. I found that my men equipped with HE Minilaunchers absolutely shredded them. They were falling like flies.

My thanks go out to Psyke, for volunteering to be my testing ground...

Edited by miceless, 04 August 2003 - 11:52 PM.

"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#73 j'ordos

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:03 AM

I'm practically 100% sure. I tested it once: there was an alien who I knew had a shield (I fired on him and saw the blue shimmer). As I was trying to get me a shield, I then stunned him with my dude with a stun grapple nearby. Surprise: no shield to be found :angry: Ok, reload, and this time stun the MoFo immediately, no other fire on him. Done, and still no shield on the floor :cussing: I reloaded again, and then I just threw some stungrenades, and the Anthropod passed out: voilą, one shield for my collection... (it was later destroyed with HE-fire alas :( )

Edited by j'ordos, 05 August 2003 - 04:04 AM.

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#74 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:34 AM

Did you see the blue shimmer on him when you hit him with the stun gun, or was it just that he didnt have one when he dropped?

I will try and test this out myself when i get home...
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#75 BurnThemALL

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 06:55 PM

That's a great soldier Brute!  :beer: And a very thoughtfull equipment. To stick the ToxiGun like you do on the left is a good idea.

Another question but I'm sure I get told again "open another thread for this!"...

About personal shields, how is it handled if you have 2 of them. When your blue bar (shield power) gets to zero, will then both shields be destroyed, is the shield power doubled or what is the effect of 2 shields.

Would be great if someone knows and takes time to tell me.  :happybanana:

both of them = the blue bar, when the bar is at zero they are both derstroyed..

i think its that. :unsure:

both of them = blue bar
they are destroyed one by one

I checked this now and it's like this.

You get shot at and you have 2 personal shields. After the blue bar goes to 1/2 - the 2nd shield gets destroyed and the blue bar is filled up to full with 1 shield remaining.

But as long as you have two shields, your blue bar is decreasing half the speed, as a soldier with 1 shield who gets shot at would.

:beer: since I think that this question is of some interest, I indeed started a new topic. ;)
http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=1935

Edited by BurnThemALL, 07 August 2003 - 07:00 PM.

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#76 Tsereve

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 04:21 PM

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#77 Arachnid

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 10:17 AM

About shields and projectiles. I think makers of apolayspe had watched stargate. It's all explained there. Slow moving projectiles like knives or darts go through the shield but fast like bullets or enegry weapons don't.

#78 NickAragua

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 02:59 PM

That or they read the Dune books.

In any case, I find Devastators and Toxiguns (with toxin-b or c) to be the most useful. Devastators are great against puny humans and shield-less aliens (to save toxin ammo) and have half decent accuracy. Meanwhile, the Toxigun kills aliens quite fast. Unfortunately, the Toxigun is about as accurate as the Law Pistol and M4000. The only bad thing about the devastator is that it looks like a hairy pig snout. Oh well, it's kind of cute.

#79 j'ordos

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 03:27 PM

About shields and projectiles. I think makers of apolayspe had watched stargate. It's all explained there. Slow moving projectiles like knives or darts go through the shield but fast like bullets or enegry weapons don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or they read 'the eternal war' or whatever it's called in english ^_^

Edited by j'ordos, 27 July 2004 - 03:28 PM.

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#80 Tiberius_51

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 10:30 AM

Are swords stopped by shields. I've stayed away from them since I researched everything so quickly, but now I want to just have some fun with melee combat.

#81 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 07:55 PM

Give me dimension missiles or give me death! :D

Failing that, alien gas is my absolute favorite weapon to use. It's just like stungas, except lethal. :D

A runner up would be the toxigun with toxin C.
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#82 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:52 PM

Ahhh, toxiguns, I don't know if they could fire with two weapons at the same time, but I always gave my troops two toxiguns each with toxin c, nothing better!

#83 Exo2000

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 08:52 AM

If you're gonna akimbo anything, at least do it in style, full auto and as many clips as you dare to carry!

Now there's a thought. A hacked agent with dual autocannons at 12.0rps and 100 rounds per clip :D

I occasionally akimbo C-Toxiguns, with four or five clips for each (basically, the belt and the two shoulder pockets)
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#84 NKF

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 04:19 PM

Well, you can use dual toxiguns, but its rate of fire is already so great that the secondary toxigun barely even gets used. On full auto (nothing like full auto when you're standing next to a tough alien), you'll barely get any mileage out of the second toxigun. With max accuracy, all the accuracy modes are the same, so you might as well go with just the one.

But on lower accuracy levels, dual aimed toxiguns are a true joy to behold - if you're into that sort of gratuitous violence, of course. :)

Speaking of the autocannon, it's almost as powerful as the disrupter gun when armed with AC rounds. Dual autocannon on full auto, even with its current spead, can be truly devastating as it is. You just need to get in close with the help of cover and some fancy footwork.

By the way, you can actually stack a lot of your ammo into one clip if you want, but they still weigh the same. The gun will draw off all the ammo it needs in any case.

In the battlescape (won't work in cityscape), go to the inventory, pick up one clip and drag it on top of another identical clip. The ammo gets consolidated into one clip. I think it goes into the one you dragged and the other clip becomes a dud clip with 0 rounds. You can dispose of the dud clip by dropping it or making it vanish by loading it into your gun. But as I said, the ammo will still weigh the same. so nothing has really changed except you've gained more equipment space. The merged clip will separate into its original clips if you unload it at a base.

(Note, you can do this with brainsucker pods to make them harmless!)

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#85 Exo2000

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 06:45 PM

I just changed it with Overkill so the things were more like ammoboxes than clips. Same weight, 100 rounds.
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#86 Blehm 98

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 08:43 PM

yeah, i sometimes give agents duo autocannons.... with any ammo, they rip the place up. they smother anything in bullets. Also, could you tell me what program you used to change the stats?
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#87 j'ordos

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 02:19 AM

yeah, i sometimes give  agents duo autocannons....  with any ammo, they rip the place up.  they smother anything in bullets.  Also, could you tell me what program you used to change the stats?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

use overkill, as exo2000 mentioned in the previous post.
http://www.dwcs.net/.../downloads.html
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#88 Exo2000

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 07:29 AM

It edits Personnel Weapons and Ship Stats.

To get the 12.00rps, change the firerate to "1000" The higher the number the faster the gun fires.

I always thought of the M4000 as a futuristic Tommy Gun, AND it looks like one!
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#89 ChinShu

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 05:38 PM

I carry a Devastor Cannon in one hand and a Toxigun strapped to the belt. I have the toxi C clip ammo in my backback along with a Personal Shield. In my other hand I carry a Personal Cloaker and have bombs(Alien GAS! :devillaugh: ) in the belt. I hold a Vortex Mine in one of the leg pockets and a Medi-Kit in the other leg pocket.

Alien Gas is good when you're killing buildings.

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#90 Exo2000

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 04:41 AM

Nothing beats Marsec/Megapol Proxy Mines and Diablo Incendiary 'nades for sitting outside a single-exit UFO. :D

IMO, Alien Gas dissapates too fast... *sigh* so I don't usually use AG 'nades. If I use AG, it's a Marsec Minilauncher. 5 Shots per "clip". Heavy Launcher is too bulky. <_< >_>

Besides, when you have Devastator Cannons, you don't NEED Toxiguns for backup. By that point you've captured and researched the shields and can manufacture them yourself. ^_^

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#91 GreySouIe

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:17 PM

I love the exposive effects on the little annoying aliens. Brainsuckers, Poppers, and the little worms. Because of that my favorite weapons is the Mini Rocket Launcher with explosive ammo. My second favorite is the Autocannon with explosive ammo. The other great thing is to light up a corpse in the middle of a bunch of aliens. Normally you start a chain reaction of ammo exploding and Aliens dieing, then more ammo going off..... anyway, it's an awesome thing to see half a dozen bad guys go into a smoking crater from a series of explosions.

#92 Pherdnut

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 06:07 AM

In a game where you have to work as hard for your money, weapons that destroy goodies are no good, IMO. Stun grenades are the real secret weapon until you start getting better tech, at least in TB play. I'd like plasma swords a lot better if they were available in the second week but they're not.

#93 NKF

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:34 PM

Well, you do have the option of, ah, 'borrowing' a few power swords. That's what I do to arm my token swordsman from the very start. Unfortunately, there's no legal way of purchasing them early.

I don't ever remember using them in turn based. Just how fast are they on auto? Are they faster or the same speed as the Devestator?

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#94 Blehm 98

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 01:28 PM

Dual autocannons with IC ammo is incredibly fun. Just take along 5 or 6 clips, and head over to one of the sanitary clinics baby factories, or a shopping mall.

Edited by Blehm 98, 13 February 2006 - 01:28 PM.

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#95 Pherdnut

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 05:47 PM

Well, you do have the option of, ah, 'borrowing' a few power swords. That's what I do to arm my token swordsman from the very start. Unfortunately, there's no legal way of purchasing them early.

I don't ever remember using them in turn based. Just how fast are they on auto? Are they faster or the same speed as the Devestator? 

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I think they're roughly the same speed, maybe a smidge faster IIRC. It just that Devastators have range and more power. I didn't know you could raid to get them. Does Marsec have them?

I do like having them on Toxigun troops, however, since they can be squeezed into a backpack with two Personal Disruptor Shields, unlike the cannons. They come in handy for cutting through walls sometimes. I would definitely mix them in with my Marsecs if I could stun/raid them. They hurt and they punch through walls. Very handy against the cultists.

Edited by Pherdnut, 13 February 2006 - 05:50 PM.


#96 Blehm 98

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 06:23 PM

if the company you raid makes a weapon, they'll probably have it there. You can find Guns, armor, ammo, and elerium at companies you raid, as well as whatever grenades the soldiers have and if its megapol even more grenades they make. Just beware the score, as i have said before i did a few too many stun raids and was fighting devastators on day 4, and i'm on cloaking devices and entropy missiles after a week and a half. It is nearly impossible

It was fun getting transports on day 2 though
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#97 Exo2000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:47 AM

Well, you do have the option of, ah, 'borrowing' a few power swords. That's what I do to arm my token swordsman from the very start. Unfortunately, there's no legal way of purchasing them early.

I don't ever remember using them in turn based. Just how fast are they on auto? Are they faster or the same speed as the Devestator? 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think they're roughly the same speed, maybe a smidge faster IIRC. It just that Devastators have range and more power. I didn't know you could raid to get them. Does Marsec have them?

I do like having them on Toxigun troops, however, since they can be squeezed into a backpack with two Personal Disruptor Shields, unlike the cannons. They come in handy for cutting through walls sometimes. I would definitely mix them in with my Marsecs if I could stun/raid them. They hurt and they punch through walls. Very handy against the cultists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You can... 'acquire' Plasma Swords from whoever makes them via stun raids. Knock all the guards unconcious and then hunt down the swords. Nab the swords and run away.

Assuming status is not hostile with the guards, they won't shoot you. B)
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#98 komninosm

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 02:01 AM

Early on the best setup for me is a plasma pistol in the right hand and a lawpistol (which has 'bigger' bullet than the machine gun amazingly) in the left hand (remember the agent is facing you when determining right and left!). This is important because the dominant hand is the right one and if you put the slower rate of fire plasma pistol in the left hand it will not fire very often, especially if you use auto for the fast lawpistol.
I think this akimbo combo gives the best results. You have a fast firing short range weapon that gives you more accuracy XP and can deal with close targets like hyperworms or a brainsucker on your other agent's head that won't injure your men with friendly fire if you're wearing armour. And you have the plasma pistol for the heavier armoured aliens and longer range fights.
Only problem is ammo shortages. Fix it with stun raids or editors.

Weapons have 3 major characteristics. ROF which is important, power which helps it cut through armour (can be bad sometimes with friendly fire) and accuracy which may not be as important because in real time aliens move around a lot (at least the melee range aliens). There's also weapon range, but I've never seen it play a big role, unless it's factored in accuracy losses due to target range. If you factor it all in you get a weapon's usefulness more or less.
The disruptor gun is very bad. If it was one handed then it would be somewhat useful, but as a two handed weapon, especially at the beginning, when your agent aren't very accurate and the akimbo penalty matters. It's about as powerful (ROF*power*accuracy) as the plasma pistol but two handed. heck the even lawpistol can be better against unarmoured targets too. All in all it is eclipsed by its bigger cousin the devastator cannon totally. Even the ROF is only marginally different. I only use it because it has no ammo and if I don't cheat (stun raids or editor) to get my good combo. When I research devastators it's a goner! And they only last until I get toxiguns. The only weapons I employ along side dual devastators are those with incendiary ammo to deal with early shields, preferably the guided/homing ones. Too bad there's no blaster launchers.

PS: I wonder can any editor change which weapons are one handed or two handed, cause the disruptor gun and the mini launcher bother me a lot.

#99 Tkwiget

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 08:11 AM

Nothing beats Marsec/Megapol Proxy Mines and Diablo Incendiary 'nades for sitting outside a single-exit UFO. :D

IMO, Alien Gas dissapates too fast... *sigh* so I don't usually use AG 'nades. If I use AG, it's a Marsec Minilauncher. 5 Shots per "clip". Heavy Launcher is too bulky. <_< >_>

Besides, when you have Devastator Cannons, you don't NEED Toxiguns for backup. By that point you've captured and researched the shields and can manufacture them yourself. ^_^

7 Tech 255 Engineers are not "instabuild" but are certainly very quick. Annihilators still take a couple of days to build.

I love blowing up stuff with Incendiary grenades. Fire! Fire!

I've flushed out aliens and CoS members from hiding places by throwing one of them into a room and they come crawling out just so they can get wasted by my Agents waiting for them.

Also, its fun burning down CoS buildings with them too. =b

I also like Auto Cannons with Incendiary ammo. Everything just gets nicely lit up. =b

#100 Tsereve

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 02:14 PM

I use 2 squads...the first is my elite humans and hybrids, armed with ToxiGuns, dual shields, plenty of 'nades, the works. My second squad is my "support squad" (read: meatshield), mostly composed of androids (with a few good humans as well) with Devastators. Dual Devastators. And lots of Vortex Mines.
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