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Base setup for Defense


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#1 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 10:26 AM

Im sure we all have the hangars and access lift isolated from the rest of the base except for a choke point (BTW you need at least two hangars or else there's a good chance some aliens will start "inside" your base). But is that the extent of your designs.

Me I've gone one step further and chosen specific facilities to form the chocke-point and surronding area for a coordinated defense tactic spread over several specific base facilities. The base you see used as my avatar forms the "core" of all my bases. They all share this arrangement (obviously once I get HWD it repalces the large radar).

First of course the hangars and access lift are isolated with 1 square of dirt around them. Next, my choke-point is a Missile Defense (because of the wall between the middle and the outside forming only one path for entry); even when I have Fusion defense I still have this missle defense facility (just because of its lower floor map). Specifically, the Hangars begin in the top left corner and proceed down with the access lift on the top row and the Misslile Defense below. The reason for this arrangement is it places the Missile defense stairs on "my" side of the base. Plus it maximizes the length of the path for the aliens to reach me.

To the right of the missile defense is a general stores. Normally you want genreal stores and living quarters as close as possible to the choke point since soldiers are most likely to "begin" here. This reduces the distance they travel to get into position. Anyway the general stores are here because the doors on the lower floor run North/South and are two squares wide. When the doors open the soldiers behind them can see directly into the path the aliens must come through. Plus since they are double-wide one soldier can open the door while the other fires. In the North East room I place a guy with a rocket launcher, his job is to send large rockets to the South West corner of the Missile defense. The blast reaches around the corner to get aliens "early". There is a second soldier with him to open the door for him and to do reloads for him.

In the North West room is a soldier with Proximity Grenades. He tosses them to the South East corner of the Missile Defense, directly in the aliens path. He also carries High-Explosives because one of these tossed under a Cyberdisk WILL do the trick. He has anouther soldier with him to open the door and prime grenades for him.

In the South East room I have a soldier with an Autocannon, 2 HE and 1 AP ammo. He is there for emergencies. "Emerging" ;) for emergencies. Get it ha ha. Get ha ha. Ya Ya. Same to you!

Anyway, in the upper level of the Missile Defenses in the North West Corner is a soldier with a motion detector. He can see the aliens coming on the floor below him. So you have early warning of aliens advance.

Finally, next to the general stores is anouther general stores. Out in the open in the intersection I place anouther knealing soldier who has good reactions. He is armed with Autocannon 2HE 1 AP ammo. he is located in the middle of the hallway since alien blaster bomb tend to be launched following the walls. He is in the leftmost collumn of the 3 x 3 grid forming the intersection because this place the limit of his sight at the wall forming the core of the Missile Defenses (he sees the aliens as they emerge. In the hall way north of him are some soldiers with autocannon 2HE 1 AP ammo, they step forward turn and fire then step back out of sight.

I keep tanks incase I'm facing mind control. Then they are the only visible things; my soldier planted in the intersection goes into hiding. Plus the tanks hold the choke point until my soldiers are in position.

I've used this arrangement for a few years now. It works really good. I've also noticed that the AI tends to bunch the aliens up in the North East corner of the Hangar next to the access lift; your guy with the motion scanner will see lots of yellow circles. Anyway, once you have a blaster launcher it's loads of fun.

As the guy on "Art Attack" says, "try it yourself".

Oh and a final tip, since in base defense you can see the entire base. You'll know after one turn if you are facing Mutons, since the silicoid leave a trail of burnt floor. If you see trails you know the green boys are a comin'.

#2 Raid!

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Posted 10 October 2002 - 02:26 PM

Is it possible to see an enlarged view of your initial base lay out? (Or an enlarged view of your avatar pic?) From what you've described doesn't your setup mean that aliens can come through the base using the lift and the missile defense (because the missile defense is attached to the hangar)? Again I'm showing my 'newbie' status, but I was told that aliens always start in your hangar and then move through the base, and only if there isn't enough room do the spill out onto the lift. If there is only one hangar and they spill out in your setup, doesn't that mean there's a chance the could start in your missile defense? :(

#3 PeterDragon

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Posted 10 October 2002 - 03:25 PM

HHA R   
HHMGGL
HH
HH




HH   = Hanger
HH

A    = Access Lift
R    = Large Radar (Guessing from picture)
M    = Missle defense
G    = General Stores
L    = Living Quarters

That may help although Stewart already described that.
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#4 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 03:11 AM

Peter got they layout correct. You need at least two hangars to accomodade the alien armys starting points. The game will place the aliens here first but if it runs out of spots (with one hangar it will) then it places the overflow in the rest of your base. Which makes your defense strategy enfouriez.

I hope this works: (the partial ground floor, I hope!)

·····--XXX···XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX·····XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
|···|··XX·······XXXXXXXXXXXXX·············XXXXXXXXXXXX
········X···········XXXXXXXXXXXX·············XXX
XXXXXXXX
·············----·····XXXXXXXXXX······----······XXXXXXXXXXX
·············|···|····XXXXXXXXXX······|···|······XXXXXXXXXXX
·············----·····XXXXXXXXXX······----······XXXXXXXXXXX
········X···········XXXXXXXXXXXX·············XXX
XXXXXXXX
········XX·······XXXXXXXXXXXXX·············XXXXXXXXX
XX
········XXX···XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX·····XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
········XXX···XXX----|·····|----X----|·····|----X----|·····|----X
········XX·····XXX··················X······
?··········X·····|·····|·····X
········X·······|···X-----·····-----X-----·····-----X-··-|·····|-··--X
··············XX·························
?······································
··············XX·························
?······································
········X···········X-----·····-----X-----·····-----X-··-|·····|-··--X
········XX·······XX··················X····?
············X·····|·····|·····X
·····--XXX···XXX----|·····|----X----|·····|----X----|·····|----X

I would not mind hearing some feedback from people who have tried this layout during a base defense.

#5 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 17 October 2002 - 12:21 PM

Okay, now that we can attach I drew a better picture.

Anyway the explanation:
Soldier #0 is actually on the second floor. The big white circle that he is in the center of is the range of the Motion Scanner he carries. As you can see he detects the aliens as they advance.

Soldier #1 performs reloads for soldier #2. He steps forward to open the double-wide door.

Soldier #2 is knealing and holds a rocket launcher and fires large rockets and the South-West corner of the missile defenses. This nabs the aliens early.

Soldiers #3 and #4 step forward turn and fire their AC-HE ammo at an aliens who have managed to make it to the main hallway.

Soldier #5 steps out of his hiding place to nab aliens with his AC-HE ammo who have made it somewhat down the main hall.

Soldier #6 primes grenades and tosses them to Soldier #8. Normal these are Proximity Grenade but also High-Explosives are available when needed (say to be tossed under a Cyberdisk).

Soldier #7 opens the double-wide door.

Soldier #8 takes the grenades from Soldier #6 and (after the hallway has been cleared) advances and tosses a proximity grenade to the South East corner of the Missile Defenses, or tosses a High-Explosive where needed.

Soldier #9 kneals and performs reactive firing with AC-HE ammo. He is also the last gun choosen to shoot any aliens that have still manage to advance too far.

The small white circle is the place where the AI tends to collect the aliens. Good to know when you have blaster bombs!

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#6 Brute

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 06:05 AM

You won't need to defend your base if you do NOT get in or out of your hangars when there is an ufo in the vicinity, shot down the ufo's far away from your base, and use mind shields.
if your base is detected, an alien battle ship will come to destroy your base -the frequency is based on the time and difficulty level-

if your base is detected, have some psi-soldiers, hovertank launchers in that base. Also have 3 fusion defences and a grav shield. I have never seen a battle ship made out of this defence, if you are lucky enough.
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#7 Crazy Photon

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 10:33 AM

You won't need to defend your base if you do NOT get in or out of your hangars when there is an ufo in the vicinity, shot down the ufo's far away from your base, and use mind shields.
if your base is detected, an alien battle ship will come to destroy your base -the frequency is based on the time and difficulty level-

if your base is detected, have some psi-soldiers, hovertank launchers in that base. Also have 3 fusion defences and a grav shield. I have never seen a battle ship made out of this defence, if you are lucky enough.

Still, there's a chance that the UFO *WILL* detect your base even by taking the precautions you metioned... as I do always take that precautions and sometimes I am attacked... very rarely though ;)
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#8 Brute

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Posted 25 December 2002 - 05:27 AM

Try to kill the very small ufo's flying over your base. You'll understand when the detect your base. The scout comes to your base, touches it, AND FLIES AWAY :devillaugh:
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#9 JustBen

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Posted 28 December 2002 - 12:41 AM

But even if you managed to always shoot down UFOs on Alien Retaliation, wouldn't you miss out on the coolest mission type in the game?

Anyway, a question for Stewart. How do you like to cope with the janky layout of your first base? I'm used to ripping it up pretty badly and building something more defensible -- an old idea, obviously. But how do you arrange your snazzy layout when the Access Lift is just in a horrible place? Do you just make your first base the manufacturing/research center? Or do you rip it up and construct your layout around the remains?

Thanks. I'm definitely impressed by the amount of thought you've put into this topic. I would never, ever have thought to use Missile Defense in that way. (I don't know if I've even built one before.)

#10 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 30 December 2002 - 01:16 PM

Mind shield means the UFO must touch your base. Without it they just need to be near and going slow, they WILL find your base eventually. I shoot down the UFO not just to protect my base but because that's what XCOM is paid to do. As for defenses you want the aliens to get through but with a reduced crew, so don't have too many.

As for the default base being crapy there are three things you can do:
1) Build a base right next to it and eventually delete the starting base.
2) Arrange a choke point in the default base. This means deleting/replacing existing facilites.
3) Use an editor and give yourself a proper starting base.

I use 3. But to be honest, I calculated the cost in money and time to build the default base and design my "default" base within these limits. In anouther thread I post my starting base designer (DOS program, quite unfinished). When I finish it, it will be a CAD program for designing a "legal" starting base.

Ben, the amount of thought goes further, check-out the thread with my base designs.

#11 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 11:40 AM

So has anyone playtested this defense strategy?

#12 Radoteur

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 12:04 PM

I'm trying a few actually.
My Nebraska (NA) base is modeled after yours, my Swiss Alps (EURO) base is the original base, and my China (CA) Base is a different setup I found somewhere else.

Basically it looks something like this

FFFFFFF
F FFFFF
F FFFFF
LF
HHHHHH
HHHHHH

H=Hangar
L=Lift
F=any 1x1 facility

This base is probably alot better for base defense, but it takes forever to build and it probably leaves more empty spots. I guess if I use general stores to build a bridge from my middle hangar to the facilities, it might go faster.

#13 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 12:07 PM

Remember for NA base to use the possitions and weapons I say, of course once you have better weapons use them of course too.

Let me know how it goes!!!!!

For your Eurobase what are the F's beside, above, and 2 above the lift?

#14 Radoteur

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 04:59 PM

I've got Heavy Plasma for weapons, and I'm researching Blaster Launcher, so those tactics for puny earth weapons will probably have to be modified.

The first two above the lift are general stores, the place I got the idea (think it was the unofficial strategy guide) from didn't specify what types to use, so I just did whatever was fastest. The one next to the lift was missle defense, I think. I'm not sure yet on which areas don't have soldiers, so I probably screwed it up.

I don't think that I'm going to get attacked for a while. I got Hyperwave Detector pretty early from stunning a navigator from large scout. So they won't be able to sneak in, and my interceptors will do their best to shoot down any scouts looking for my base.

The aliens look like they are busy making bases right now.

#15 Crus8r

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 11:36 AM

Stewart, I really liked your defense plan and implemented it in my current game. What a great idea to use the missile defense this way (I've never built them before, so I had no idea what their floorplan was like :rolleyes: ) After reading your plan, I looked at the other modules, but the missile defense seems to be unique in its layout....

So my base was attacked at the end of march99 by sectoids...I setup my defense pretty much like you suggested....wow...they didn't have a chance!!! There is one flaw in the setup, tho...not a tactical one, but an economic one...you end up destroying a LOT of items and corpses (and I needed that money!!!!)

Because of this, I shifted tactics about halfway through the defense, using lasers instead of explosives and running guys forward to collect stuff, then running back...which lead to exposing my guys to mind attacks (don't have psi-lab yet, but will soon now, courtesy of the leader of this raid) :devillaugh:

Still, I didn't loose any guys (tho I did have to stun several of my guys who were controlled), and the defense was FAR easier because of the setup...it would have been a complete cakewalk if I hadn't advanced to grab stuff.

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  • defense.jpg

Edited by Crus8r, 30 January 2004 - 11:57 AM.


#16 Crus8r

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 11:46 AM

Also, does this setup work in TFTD? I know the torpedo launcher and hydrocannon wouldn't work, but you could still use gas cannons HE, right?

Edited by Crus8r, 30 January 2004 - 12:02 PM.


#17 Trevelyan

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 12:04 PM

Perhaps it is something you should ask in the TFTD forums? :D ^_^
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#18 Crus8r

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 12:27 PM

True, but when I made the first post, it double-posted for some reason, with only half the pic...so I edited the first post and reattached the pic, and then edited the repeat post so that it was at least somewhat useful :naughty:

#19 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 02:02 PM

Don't the aliens just appear randomly inside your base in TFTD?
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#20 NKF

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 02:22 PM

They appear to - but I think it's more of a case of appearing in modules adjacent to the entry points.

In UFO, there are some base modules that no aliens or X-Com units spawn in. And one that I can think of is the small radar. This would make an excellent buffer module. The layout of the open radar is an octagonal open hallway, which means that any aliens approaching you have nowhere to hide.

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#21 stewart

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 09:01 PM

In TFTD the aliens can start "Inside" your base as it were. It can also happen in UFO if you don't give enough Hangar/lift space. That's why I have no one-hangar-or-less base designs; one hangar ain't enough you don't want a chrysallid startin' were the ain't got no business startin' ah figures.

Thanks for the priase but recall that the defense plan is more than just the missile defense the two general stores and the facing of the facilities is part of it. Wait till you get a motion detector and stick the guy upstairs, it's almost criminally too easy to defend a base.
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#22 sunsmountain

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Posted 18 May 2004 - 07:49 AM

Regardless of specific layouts (though nice missile defense exploit, stewart), most base designs i have seen have 2 hangars, 1 access lift and therefore 5 dirt, or empty spaces around them. I like to connect & disconnect my base when it's almost finished, creating a long corridor, like this:

HHHH F
HHHH F
L FF
FFFFFF
FFFFFF
FFFFFF

turning into:

HHHHFF
HHHH F
L FF
FFFFF
FFFFFF
FFFFFF

Faster buildups can be done using general stores, but come at the risk of base invasion at the wrong time, ie the aliens catch you :spank:
But to use stewarts design, in my next game i will try:

HHL FF
HH FFF
HH FFF
HH FFF
F FFFF
FFFFFF

making sure that the bottom left facility is the missile defense, and that two to the right of it are general stores. My living quarters are usually in the middle anyway, to get anywhere in the base quickly.
I definitely let them 'come through' my defenses, to
A. have a wonderful mission and
B. stop them from trying again and again. :hammer: aliens

#23 Lootgen

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:32 PM

Here you go:

Start off with your standard:

F F F F F F
F 0 F F F F
F 0 F F F F
F 0 0 0 0 0
F F F F F F
F F F F F F

(Picture is going to suck, but you get it)

Obviously, you build about 5 modules of defense (I like 4 FB Launchers and 1 Grav shield)

Now, if you want to have fun, just straight outfit your base. Make it one BIG FRIEKING BLOCK of SOLID ELECTRIC GREEN.

Fill in those slots with FB Launchers, another grav shield, and anything else you want, I.E. Another PSI Lab for training replacement recruits, another workshop for Laser Cannon production, whatever your hearty desires.

Remember kids, the whole idea of base defense is just that: a defense. Fancy shenanigans are only useful insofar as the aliens can even make it into your base.

I have never seen an attack survive 4 FB launchers and 1 Grav shield (I've never played Superhuman, getting there, only on Genius). With 8-9 FB Launchers and 2-3 grav shields, the wrath of the lord of Alien Mecca could fall on your base and you'd never know about it. The 8 year-old daughter of your best soldier would see the red light come on, press the button, and watch the sky get lit up by all things 'flaming' and 'Snakeman'. Then she'd go back to watching Spongebob.

And the maint? Who cares? It's not like you're not making billions of dollars every month anyways. And you'll be making plenty more with the added LQ and Workshops you can build in that alien buffer defense zone.

An addition tip: Never build a mind shield, or put it out of commission once you have the four FB launchers/1 Grav shield. You WANT those alien scum attacking your base, downed ships = CASH from the remaining earth governments supporting you.

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#24 Krysia's Krusader

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:35 PM

Okay, now that we can attach I drew a better picture.

Anyway the explanation:
Soldier #0 is actually on the second floor.  The big white circle that he is in the center of is the range of the Motion Scanner he carries.  As you can see he detects the aliens as they advance.

Soldier #1 performs reloads for soldier #2.  He steps forward to open the double-wide door.

Soldier #2 is knealing and holds a rocket launcher and fires large rockets and the South-West corner of the missile defenses.  This nabs the aliens early.

Soldiers #3 and #4 step forward turn and fire their AC-HE ammo at an aliens who have managed to make it to the main hallway.

Soldier #5 steps out of his hiding place to nab aliens with his AC-HE ammo who have made it somewhat down the main hall.

Soldier #6 primes grenades and tosses them to Soldier #8.  Normal these are Proximity Grenade but also High-Explosives are available when needed (say to be tossed under a Cyberdisk).

Soldier #7 opens the double-wide door.

Soldier #8 takes the grenades from Soldier #6 and (after the hallway has been cleared) advances and tosses a proximity grenade to the South East corner of the Missile Defenses, or tosses a High-Explosive where needed.

Soldier #9 kneals and performs reactive firing with AC-HE ammo.  He is also the last gun choosen to shoot any aliens that have still manage to advance too far.

The small white circle is the place where the AI tends to collect the aliens.  Good to know when you have blaster bombs!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




Posted Image



Wow! Super Neat-O!
=b


I've tried to devise intricate tactics too. Because this (base attack) is the hardest thing for me to overcome, so far.

However; I nearly always get attacked during January, 1999. No way I can have such a set-up.

What do you do at your "Home" base?

Edited by Krysia's Krusader, 29 September 2005 - 10:35 PM.


#25 Zombie

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 12:34 AM

What do you do at your "Home" base?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you have 3 options as I see it:
  • Do nothing, and keep the original base layout
  • Deconstruct and rebuild modules according to "safe" methods, time permitting
  • Demolish the original base and rebuild it from scratch (actually, visa versa)
I'm sure we've all muddled through a base defense mission with the original base. While the setup isn't exactly pretty, you can complete this type of mission without too much hassle assuming Ethereals aren't paying you a visit.

I usually recommend option #2 because you can work on redesigning the base from day 1. First thing people normally do in a new game is to build some modules. That's fine, but instead of placing the new modules anywhere, try building between the two Hangars at the bottom of the base. Time/funds permitting, build 2 new Hangars at the very top of your base flanking the existing Hangar in the middle. When fully constructed, demolish the two Hangars at the bottom and start building new structures in the footprints where the 2 old hangars used to sit. While it's not a design ratified by stewart, you can defend it easier than the original. All for the very low cost of 2 Hangars ($400,000) and some time (25 days). ;)

Some people swear by #3, since you can just build another base nearby, and slowly start to transfer craft/personnel as the new base becomes operational. While the most expensive option, cost is usually not a problem later on when you are swimming in a sea of alien artifacts and alloys. Another pro is that you can build the safest design possible from the start. After everything safely made the move to the new home base, dismantle the structures at the old one. :)

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#26 dipstick

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:52 AM

Personally, I just shoot the aliens as they come. I prefer the initial base design to the ones outlined above. I remember using the strategy where you link the hangars to the access lift, and then having a long corridor of 1x1 facilities to leave a gap.

It failed. Miserably.

Any soldier spotted by the aliens, received a one way BB direct their feet, which tended to blow up most, if not all of my squad. I had to run in 6 men, hide them behind the access lift, and then run quickly, firing autoshots as I went - chucking grenades and praying. Thankfully half of the remaining sectoids panicked :D I did hope that I could stun the leader, which I couldn't do due to reaction fire. Ah well.
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#27 NKF

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 07:36 AM

I too have never been particularly fond of the optimal base setup where hangars are connected to the rest of the base by the access lift and a long corridor (or one module, at the very least). My preference is for the optimal base plus two routes into the hangar, so you can hit them from two different directions.

The main reason I dislike the optimal base layout is due to a rather bad experience with blaster bombs. Lots and lots of blaster bombs. All detonating in the same module.

After the mission, all that was left were the hangars, the access lift and a radar. You can probably see one of the major reasons why I now prefer two access points! ;) It also offers the tactical option of attacking the aliens from two different directions.

That's for really big bases. For small radar/intercept outposts - I just dump them willy nilly. For all new bases, whether large or small, I've started getting into the habit of keeping the access lift isolated from the rest of the base and attached to one of the hangars. I dislike attacking the access lift during the first few turns because of the shielding it provides. It helps if the attackers get funnelled through to the hangar where a few well placed rockets can deal generous damage.

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#28 dipstick

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:09 AM

I personally feel that generous application of laser fire and plasma fire keeps the aliens under control - I don't really care about placement of facilities. I would almost prefer multiple angles of alien entry, as that would provide potentially more angles for my defenders to attack from, so it is swings and roundabouts really.
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#29 stewart

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 07:22 PM

Option 4 (Ironman) completely dismantly the starting base Jan 1 and start with just your funds :P

I never used the default starting base. I start with no base but adjust the funds to th 6M$ish (before expemses) and start from there. If I survive January then I'm fine. So I have no advise for what to do with the default base, since it doesnt exist for me.

BTW seen my unfinished starting base designer :naughty:
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#30 Dark Archon

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:10 PM

My optimal base has the Access Lift connecting the hangars to the base, with the General Stores connecting the Lift to the other 1x1 installations...with a Laser Tank and about 8 soldiers with Laser rifles mowed even the Snake men down...as your soldiers hide in the Store rooms, then pop out and blast down the Lift...but you need to take out the Lift doors that allow you to see straight to the hangar. Then, even if they are no enemies coming, have your men pop out and shoot into the hangar. You would be amazed how many aliens bottleneck at the Hangar-Lift access hatch place. The laser tank is for Emergency fire to take down aliens that might get passed your defensive-soldiers...although then you can shoot 'em from behind :)

#31 Zombie

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 01:38 AM

Option 5: don't even allow a base defense mission to start.

Sell off Interceptors 1 and 2, but keep the Skyranger. Dismantle the bottom two Hangars. Hire 15 more soldiers (for a total of 23). If the aliens decide to attack now, all the spawn points will be occupied by X-COM agents and you automatically win the mission without lifting a finger. No need to construct costly "active" defensive systems (such as Fusion Ball Defenses or a Grav Shield), or even "passive" systems such as the Mind Shield. If the aliens try, you win. ^_^

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#32 stewart

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 08:14 AM

I'd like that confirmed.
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#33 Zombie

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 12:56 AM

Okay, let me clear this up a bit. I'm in error since it has been a while since I did any spawn point determinations. Apologies. :(

Each module in your base has a certain number of nodes (aka spawn points) where units will show up. Here is what my research showed:

Base Structure          Level 0     Level 1     Total
Living Quarters             7           1         8
Laboratory                  6           1         7
Workshop                    6           1         7
Small Radar                 0           2         2
Large Radar                 5           1         6
Missile Defenses            4           5         9
General Stores              7           4        11
Alien Containment           7           5        12
Laser Defenses              5           1         6
Plasma Defenses             5           1         6
Fusion Defenses             5           1         6
Grav Shield                 5           1         6
Mind Shield                 5           1         6
Psi Lab                     7           3        10
Hyperwave                   5           1         6
Hangar                     15           0        15
Access Lift                 5           3         8

Aliens/terrorists will normally only spawn within the Access Lift or Hangars. That is the area reserved for them by the game. An additional point can also be found in the General Stores near the steps on Level 0. This node will normally spawn an alien only when there are no Hangars present.

Your soldiers have an order in which structures they will fill first. The Living Quarters and General Stores always take precedence. Next are all the other normal structures. Last on the list are the Hangars and Access Lift. All you need to do to auto-win a base defense mission is count the number of spawn points in your base. If the total number of spawn points is 40 or less, it is possible. Spawn points more than 40 might reduce the number of aliens present, but you still have to play through the mission.

The main thing to remember is that the Hangars have the most spawn points of any module. If you reduce the number of them, it cuts the number of possible nodes the aliens can spawn in.

For instance, take the bare-bones base:
1 Hangar (15)
1 Access Lift (8)
1 Living Quarters (8)
1 General Stores (11)
The number of spawn points is 15+8+8+11 = 42. Since this number is greater than 40, aliens will spawn. Since only 40 of your soldiers can possibly spawn, 2 aliens will show up (most likely in the Hangar). However, remove the last Hangar and things become different:
1 Access Lift (8)
1 Living Quarters (8)
1 General Stores (11)
The number of spawn points is now only 8+8+11 = 27. Therefore, if you have 27 soldiers stationed at your base, no aliens will spawn and you automatically win the mission. Heck, you don't need a General Stores for a base defense mission either as long as you have enough troops to cover all the nodes. :)

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#34 Dover

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:08 PM

My opimal base used to look like:

F F F F F F
F F F F F F
F F F F F F
A
H H H H H H
H H H H H H

Where:
F = 1x1 facility
A = Access Lift
H = Hanger

But then I discovered you can use the ClarkDude editor to modify how strong base defenses are, and I modified the fusion ball launcher to 32767 defense points (In my mind, it's more realistic, since there are like 12+ launchy things shown, and each one would probably have the power of a small nuclear warhead)

since then, I've been able to cut down quite a bit on my defensive modules, although I still use a good defensive setup in case my FBL misses...

P.S. -- Sorry for the misaligning in the drawing.

Edited by Dover, 27 January 2006 - 02:08 PM.


#35 stewart

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:22 PM

The last thing you want in this game is to have an impenetrable base; it's soooo annoying.

Hey, I just got a though . . . . .

Question for NKF and/or Zombie:

Your base is being continually invaded because you have 5 fusion plus a grav shield. If you built an avenger and intercepted the invading UFO, shot it down, did the ground assault and won, would that stop the line of invasions?
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#36 Dover

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:43 PM

I beg to differ! I welcome them. Each one shot down impresses the funding nations. I find the best way to keep a country is to have a base that's constantly shooting down battleships nearby.

To answer your question stewart (Even though my answer is nowhere near as credible as NKF's or Zombie's), I want to say yes, and it may even not be nessessary to do the ground assault.

#37 Zombie

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:47 PM

Question for NKF and/or Zombie:

Your base is being continually invaded because you have 5 fusion plus a grav shield.  If you built an avenger and intercepted the invading UFO, shot it down, did the ground assault and won, would that stop the line of invasions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. You have to let the invading UFO through your defenses and then win the base defense mission. Only then will the alien group "forget" where your base is. Like NKF said a while back, there may be other groups which know the location of your base too - and some of those groups could belong to the same race. When you have successfully defended your base from all the groups, the attacks should stop. :)

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#38 stewart

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:11 PM

Do battleships shot down by base defenses contibute to your score?
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#39 Zombie

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:24 PM

Unfortunately, no. I tested this out a while back when I had a battleship attack my base on Superhuman. Up to that point, I had a score of 0. After my defenses shot down the craft, I checked my score again. Result: still 0. If you are really intent upon getting points, it's much better to shoot down the retaliation battleship and then visit the crash site. ;)

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#40 stewart

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:24 PM

BTW Zombie is that Tesla in your avatar?
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#41 Zombie

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:28 PM

Nope. I fool a lot of people with this pic. It's actually Niels Bohr, Einstein's arch-rival. LOL

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#42 Dover

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 02:13 PM

Well...crap. Zombie just tore my theories a new hole...

But I've learned something, so thanks for the corrections, Zombie, otherwise I'd be going on under false pretenses...

#43 Zanfib32

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 01:54 AM

Okay, now that we can attach I drew a better picture.

Anyway the explanation:
Soldier #0 is actually on the second floor.  The big white circle that he is in the center of is the range of the Motion Scanner he carries.  As you can see he detects the aliens as they advance.

Soldier #1 performs reloads for soldier #2.  He steps forward to open the double-wide door.

Soldier #2 is knealing and holds a rocket launcher and fires large rockets and the South-West corner of the missile defenses.  This nabs the aliens early.

Soldiers #3 and #4 step forward turn and fire their AC-HE ammo at an aliens who have managed to make it to the main hallway.

Soldier #5 steps out of his hiding place to nab aliens with his AC-HE ammo who have made it somewhat down the main hall.

Soldier #6 primes grenades and tosses them to Soldier #8.  Normal these are Proximity Grenade but also High-Explosives are available when needed (say to be tossed under a Cyberdisk).

Soldier #7 opens the double-wide door.

Soldier #8 takes the grenades from Soldier #6 and (after the hallway has been cleared) advances and tosses a proximity grenade to the South East corner of the Missile Defenses, or tosses a High-Explosive where needed.

Soldier #9 kneals and performs reactive firing with AC-HE ammo.  He is also the last gun choosen to shoot any aliens that have still manage to advance too far.

The small white circle is the place where the AI tends to collect the aliens.  Good to know when you have blaster bombs!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Your plan seems to rely on a lot of explosive weapons, but I've always been told that to many explosions in a base module would destroy it. Hangers, Access Lifts, General Stores and Living Quarters are supposed to be invulnerable to this, but not missile defenses. How can you set off so many explosions with out destroying ninety percent of your base?

#44 NKF

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 06:14 AM

Most of the HE weapons mentioned there, like the proximity mine and AC-HE shells aren't strong enough to do too much damage to base modules. What we normally go on about when it comes to destroying base modules involve blaster bombs and high explosives - i.e. gratuitous high explosives.

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#45 stewart

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:27 AM

Usually its the stuff in the upper floor that must be destroyed to remove the module.

Oddly enough I've shot the bare missile shafts in the base defense, they never explode. =b
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#46 LLCoolJD

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 09:59 PM

An expansion base of mine was assaulted early in my most recent game. The five rifle-toting rookies were only able to survive thanks to the hangar/access lift isolation layout. The bumbling Floaters, unable to get off any grenade tosses, were mown down by a steady barrage of reaction fire. Thank you.

#47 Morwynd

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:09 PM

Has anyone made use of the Base Disjoint Bug in their designs?

For example, in Stewart's classic design with the Access Lift/Missile Defense choke at the top, and the Hangars down the left, you could add a module in the bottom row, bridging the gap between the bottom Hangar and the rest of the base.

Benefits:
  • An extra module space, always a good thing.
  • Provides a backup path to the Access Lift, so you don't lose your whole base if your choke point (ie Missile Defense) is destroyed.
  • Thanks to the Disjoint Bug, invaders cannot use this to bypass your choke point.
  • Yet, you can still cut through to the Hangar if you really want to.
The only potential downside is you could have agents trapped in here at the start of the base defense, but as long as it's not General Stores or Living Quarters, this should not be a real problem.

Seems like all pros and no cons, yet I've not seen this suggested anywhere. Am I missing something?

I've incorporated this idea into several of my bases, but so far none have been attacked yet to give it a real trial by fire.

#48 Zombie

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:33 PM

Has anyone made use of the Base Disjoint Bug in their designs?

For example, in Stewart's classic design with the Access Lift/Missile Defense choke at the top, and the Hangars down the left, you could add a module in the bottom row, bridging the gap between the bottom Hangar and the rest of the base.

Benefits:

  • An extra module space, always a good thing.
  • Provides a backup path to the Access Lift, so you don't lose your whole base if your choke point (ie Missile Defense) is destroyed.
  • Thanks to the Disjoint Bug, invaders cannot use this to bypass your choke point.
  • Yet, you can still cut through to the Hangar if you really want to.
The only potential downside is you could have agents trapped in here at the start of the base defense, but as long as it's not General Stores or Living Quarters, this should not be a real problem.

Seems like all pros and no cons, yet I've not seen this suggested anywhere. Am I missing something?

I've incorporated this idea into several of my bases, but so far none have been attacked yet to give it a real trial by fire.

If you place a module to the right of the hangar and a module right above it, the whole base disjoint bug is avoided since the 2nd module is also attached to the hangar. Now, if you place the 2nd module to the right of the first module, you possibly would need to cut through 2 walls to get to the hangar (assuming no soldiers equipped with a Blaster Launcher are spawned in the module adjoining the hangar). That's not really convenient in my book and what happens if you don't have Blaster Launchers? Having men cut-off from the battle is a big no-no. Be aware that any module placed on the map has the possibility of spawning X-COM soldiers - it's just that certain modules (usually the researched ones) have a lower probability.

As for losing the choke point, you wouldn't during that mission. If the mission would end with a destroyed missile defense module, you could still rebuild in that spot.

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#49 Morwynd

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 02:35 PM

The general layout I'm talking about is basically Stewart's "Research Base (Fusion Def.)" one in the lower right here:

http://www.xcomufo.c...c...=post&id=16

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying if the Missile Defense in that is destroyed, you wouldn't lose the base?

What I'm talking about is adding a single module on the bottom row, between the Hangar and the Fusion Defense. I don't want to avoid the disjoint bug, I want to use it as a defensive feature. :) I do make sure I don't build it until I know I will have Blaster Launcher available for emergency cut-through if needed.

But generally, I'm thinking I shouldn't ever need to... I can't imagine enough soldiers spawning in the sealed module to make a base defense unwinnable. But as I said, this is all theory so far, since I haven't had a base with this concept attacked yet. I'll be sure to report my findings when that happens. :)

#50 NKF

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:24 PM

They take a bit more effort, but tank laser/plasma beams and heavy plasmas are also capable of digging through base walls if you're out of or have not yet researched blaster bombs. I might be mistaken, but I think the plain vanilla heavy laser might cut it too.

The small radar is generally quite a safe module to let get sealed off, since it has so few nodes in it that are used for spawning units.

In the past, I have hinted that the disjoint bug could be useful, but I was thinking more as a single partition in a 4x4 block of modules along one of the edges (probably one being the access lift or the side of a hangar). This would result in an n or a c shaped passage. Really just as an excuse for the aliens to spend more time walking around the bend and getting exhausted. There is a flaw to this in that it ends up only being a right angle obstacle. There might be some more creative uses for it.

The missile defense module does this on a much smaller scale, and you've got more freedom in how you place it.

I guess if you can fit it in to the design, that's good. If you must cut through the walls, then it might prove to be more work than is necessary.

On a completely unrelated note, I wish the forum was able to use templates like a wiki. The base construction kit template I made for the ufopaedia wiki for quickly bashing together concept bases would be quite handy in a discussion like this. I suppose there would be its fair share of issues ... oh well.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 16 January 2008 - 10:14 PM.

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