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XCOMUFO & Xenocide

The Alien Perspective


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Hmmm...are we staying true to all information from all X-com games, including that halfbreed "Enforcer", or are we just being true to the original X-Com 1?
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I think we should try and stay true true to the XCOM series as a whole. As far as Apoc IMHO. Dont know anything about interceptor or enforcer, so.... Who knows, we may even do TftD after XCOM1. :D
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The problem is: Apoc seems to build up on Xcom1, not Xcom2. For example: no Zrbite, no Gauss, no Sonic, but E115, laser and plasma in stead :wacko:
The only thing taken over from Xcom2 is that that invasion caused so much pollution Earth became uninhabitable...
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I think the aliens should have all the elerium on mars rather than have it shipped to them. If things were going poorly the mother world could just send reinforcements as well. Perhaps elerium has the ability to expand under certain circumstances? Say if you put it under extreme pressure or submerse it in some replenishable solution, it can crystalize like rock candy. It's at a fixed rate, so you would get a certain amount each month from it. I think if elerium is a critical part of alien technology they would not rely on countless supply lines all over the galaxy to maintain their activities. They would have some sort of generator or the like if it were possible, some sort of sci-fi alchemy machine. Perhaps unshielded solar radiation causes it to grow, which humans wouldn't know about. The earth's atmosphere protects it, and they never find out. The generator focuses the radiation enough to cause the necessary reaction.

The generator can have a fixed size, so you couldn't "save up" elerium to generate even more later on. But you could stockpile it in the early game until you have larger ships to power.
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I have a bit of a thing to point out with regards to playing the alien's side. My usual disclaimer, I wasn't able to read all the comments on this thread because I'm too darn lazy. Sorry I couldn't keep track of things on a daily basis. My finances are not anywhere near xcom levels, so internet access is a luxury I can afford only once in a while.

Well, over all... I don't really see the feasibilty of a 1 player alien game. The assumption xcom is that the aliens are way superior tech wise. And we need only to prevent the humans from capturing a vessel to prevent our diabolical plans of invasion from unravelling. That won't be that difficult if we just send out a bunch of mutons to do our dirty work against the rifle carrying weenie humans. I know I'm not thinking this through. i'm sure there's a way we can make the invasion of the human world more challenging to the aliens.

If we're planning a multi player game, then I guess, we do this via race with the assumption we're all on the same technological levels. Each race having their specific abilties, and their accompanying sub-race (humans-HWPs, snakemen-Chrysallids, Muton-Celatids, etc). I don't know how we're supposed to do this, but I guess, the idea is to wipe out all other bases of the other races. or to achieve some wierd objective like infiltrate as many governments as possible. Does this make $ our only resource?

Gosh, I feel like i'm talking gibberish. Feel free to rip this to shreds but maybe we can all get an idea or two from this market fool.
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Guest Jim69
U's about a year behind :devillaugh: I know u couldn't be arsed 2 read it all, but 2 sum it up: The points u have raised are exactly what has and is being discussed. Sorry.
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[quote]Or maybe sonic only works underwater. Im sure it could be sorted if we tried.[/quote]

Sonic, should work over water too, but should be more effective underwater. Unless we are going to ignore RL physics...

Oh, and in Apoc there [i]were[/i] mines of Elerium in Mars...

[quote]arsed[/quote]

:LOL: No, it's not funny... Really!
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[quote name='Aosar on Aug 5 2003' date=' 07:42 PM'][quote]Or maybe sonic only works underwater. Im sure it could be sorted if we tried.[/quote]
Sonic, should work over water too, but should be more effective underwater. Unless we are going to ignore RL physics...[/quote]
Air is very different from water. They would either not work at all, work very little or work really well. Im too dazed to do the physics to figure out which.

[quote name='Aosar on Aug 5 2003' date=' 07:42 PM'][quote]arsed[/quote]

:LOL: No, it's not funny... Really![/quote]
Eh? :huh?:
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[quote]Im too dazed to do the physics to figure out which.[/quote]

Sonic weapons are based on soundwaves that can cause damage, and it is known that in water sound moves much faster than in air...

[quote]Eh?[/quote]

Well, he said "arsed" in stead of "asked" and... And... Nevermind... Edited by Aosar
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Well, sonic would work under water and on land, but I think on land would be less effective because soundwaves are actually molecules bouncing against each other. Fluids contain more molecules than (uncompressed) gases like air, so more molecules would start moving, and more energy would be transmitted. At least, IIRC -_-
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IIRC on mars (after tftd) a large cache of elerium was discovered near cydonia. This lasted until humans formed mining colonies in interceptor. In apoc, the martian colony is primarily for extraction of heavier elements like aluminum, copper, etc.

IRT people who suggested a starcraft type campaign. Though that is a good idea, what happens when the aliens (you) win? Who really wants to see earth destroyed and humans enslaved?
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[quote name='j'ordos' date='Aug 5 2003, 06:20 PM']The question is: who doesn't? :devillaugh:[/quote]
But the problem is, if the aliens eventually win, what is the point of playing the human campaign? :huh?: Also, having the aliens win would snuff any possibility of adding tftd elements directly after the normal campaign and an alien victory means no sequels! Edited by Cpl. Facehugger
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Why not? At the critical moment, right before the total alien victory, a squad of remaining Avengers, filled with the brightest human minds, the greatest soldiers,... flies off to a distant planet and plots the return to earth... I've heard worse excuses for a sequel :D
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Guest Jim69
[quote name='miceless' date='Aug 5 2003, 06:59 PM']That sounds appropriately scientific. :zzzzz:

And I think he actually meant to use arsed. I may be wrong though.[/quote]
Yup, I can't help but type what goes on in my head, and I think with an accent :D


BTW, in Starcraft, no side won completly, it was usually just 1 mans view from a part of the war. This way no side ever won outright ( leaving room 4 the expansion pack, damn they should bring out a sequal I really preferred that 2 Warcraft ).

The only way 2 do this would be the defence of Mars. The situation would be reversed. The humans would be coming in Avengers and trying to set up colonies on Mars, and u would be trying 2 stop them and defend the Elerium deposits. Haven't really thought this thru more, but I guess I'll leave u guys 2 rip it 2 shreads.
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[quote name='Jim69' date='Aug 6 2003, 02:02 AM'][quote name='miceless' date='Aug 5 2003, 06:59 PM']And I think he actually meant to use arsed. I may be wrong though.[/quote]
Yup, I can't help but type what goes on in my head, and I think with an accent[/quote]
I think 'arsed' is a british thing isnt it. I would use it myself, if i didnt generally avoid that type of thing. It seems the filters dont pick up british stuff, so we can bloody well curse as much as we can be arsed to. :D

[quote name='Jim69' date='Aug 6 2003, 02:02 AM']The only way 2 do this would be the defence of Mars. The situation would be reversed. The humans would be coming in Avengers and trying to set up colonies on Mars, and u would be trying 2 stop them and defend the Elerium deposits. Haven't really thought this thru more, but I guess I'll leave u guys 2 rip it 2 shreads[/quote]
I disagree. I think all you do then is create xenocide with the roles reversed. Part of the appeal of playing as the aliens is being able to invade the earth. :naughty:
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Perhaps a time frame would be best for the aliens? You have say 10 years to either defeat the X-Corps or take over the various countries. After X years humans learn where your base is and starts sending strike teams at it every couple months for a year, and if that doesn't kill you they eventually nuke your base. You could include the chance to intercept these strikes to prolong things, but once the humans have your scent it becomes a non-stop threat.
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I think and indirect method of limitation would be better. "im sorry, you failed to invade the earth within 10 years" would suck a bit.

You could implement Elerium mining, and say that the Elerium mines only have so much in. That way, when you run out of Elerium you will be easily overwhelmed by the humans (almost wrote aliens there :))
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how come the lil underwater buggers attack you? (you being the aliens) i mean.. they hate you cause u dont need gills.. and you dont have freaky webbed feet, if the aliens attack the aliens that keeps the balance so the human campaigns arnt shorter or harder, they are all the same <_<
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Is this game going to have set missions like say, any normal rts, or will it be more random and stay true to xcom's roots? Personally,I think the latter is best as it adds replay value.

Anyway, I think that the campaign sequence would be good as long as neither side got completely annhilated. (Kind of like starcraft now that I think about it. :D)
That was a good idea Jim69.
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Yes this sticks to the gameplay of the original game, not a rts game. I don't think it's designed around a progressive campaign where you play one side then the other, as this will be a future version/mod you would just have the coice to play either side to start with. So total destruction is a viable option.
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There's only one victory condition for the X-Corps side of things (Cydonia). For the Aliens, I think that destuction of X-Corps (however you manage it...infiltration of countries, direct assualt, etc) should be it. The only other option I can see is something like TftD's 12 Synomium devices.

-The Captain
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I think what Breunor was saying is that it should not be like Starcraft. If you play as humans and destroy the alien base on Mars, you can not then play as the aliens on Mars and still be in the same story line. They should be completely seperate.
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What I meant was that the goals of either side are mutually exclusive. A new player of the game could install it for the first time, and choose to play either side immediately. Either you destroy the alien base on mars, or take over teh UN/destroy xcom on earth.
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I'm for the point system

Also x-com does have a chance, considering as they outnumber the enemys on small scouts and the more important races presumably don't arrive untill much later.
Also aliens shouldn't be able to detect a plane unless it flies near a base. and the only way to find the x-com base is to follow a plane or to research standard radio and decrypt the forces encoding (possibly something to put on an alien research tree?) Edited by Ancalagon
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[quote name='Breunor' date='Aug 1 2003, 09:01 AM']I think the aliens should have all the elerium on mars rather than have it shipped to them. If things were going poorly the mother world could just send reinforcements as well. Perhaps elerium has the ability to expand under certain circumstances? Say if you put it under extreme pressure or submerse it in some replenishable solution, it can crystalize like rock candy. It's at a fixed rate, so you would get a certain amount each month from it. I think if elerium is a critical part of alien technology they would not rely on countless supply lines all over the galaxy to maintain their activities. They would have some sort of generator or the like if it were possible, some sort of sci-fi alchemy machine. Perhaps unshielded solar radiation causes it to grow, which humans wouldn't know about. The earth's atmosphere protects it, and they never find out. The generator focuses the radiation enough to cause the necessary reaction.

The generator can have a fixed size, so you couldn't "save up" elerium to generate even more later on. But you could stockpile it in the early game until you have larger ships to power.[/quote]
You know how the US ivaded Iraq? you know how soldiers need something called food to live? well I'll tell you this. I don't think that the army planted a bunch of wheat in preparation for its attack, and we weren't exactly recieving 100,000 pounds of food per day from the Iraqis

All I'm saying is that relying on logistics has been done before. I'm not even gonna get into WWII or gasoline.

EDIT: Funny thing actually, Element 115 is occupied by Uup, whatever that is.
Maybe you should change the number, or take it out entirely, although 115 could be referring to it's weight (i.e. Uranium 235, or uranium 238, which is used to make nukes) but then you're bassically working with tin or indium, meaning that it's atomic wieght is not enough to make it radioactive, if that means anything at all. Edited by Ancalagon
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[quote name='Ancalagon' date='Aug 11 2003, 10:19 AM'][quote name='Breunor' date='Aug 1 2003, 09:01 AM'] I think the aliens should have all the elerium on mars rather than have it shipped to them. If things were going poorly the mother world could just send reinforcements as well. Perhaps elerium has the ability to expand under certain circumstances? Say if you put it under extreme pressure or submerse it in some replenishable solution, it can crystalize like rock candy. It's at a fixed rate, so you would get a certain amount each month from it. I think if elerium is a critical part of alien technology they would not rely on countless supply lines all over the galaxy to maintain their activities. They would have some sort of generator or the like if it were possible, some sort of sci-fi alchemy machine. Perhaps unshielded solar radiation causes it to grow, which humans wouldn't know about. The earth's atmosphere protects it, and they never find out. The generator focuses the radiation enough to cause the necessary reaction.

The generator can have a fixed size, so you couldn't "save up" elerium to generate even more later on. But you could stockpile it in the early game until you have larger ships to power.[/quote]
You know how the US ivaded Iraq? you know how soldiers need something called food to live? well I'll tell you this. I don't think that the army planted a bunch of wheat in preparation for its attack, and we weren't exactly recieving 100,000 pounds of food per day from the Iraqis

All I'm saying is that relying on logistics has been done before. I'm not even gonna get into WWII or gasoline.

EDIT: Funny thing actually, Element 115 is occupied by Uup, whatever that is.
Maybe you should change the number, or take it out entirely, although 115 could be referring to it's weight (i.e. Uranium 235, or uranium 238, which is used to make nukes) but then you're bassically working with tin or indium, meaning that it's atomic wieght is not enough to make it radioactive, if that means anything at all. [/quote]
115 is indeed the element, Ununpentium, which is what Elerium is based on. Ununpentium has been theorised to exist. Somehow the aliens created Ununpentium and modifying it into Elerium. That's the idea ne way, there's a post about it somewhere.
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The elerium x-net entry can be found [url="http://www.xcomufo.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=1510"]here[/url].

That should explain things but what Jm69 said is basically correct.

EDIT: And the pic of the elerium can be found [url="http://www.xcomufo.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=1497"]here[/url] i think. Edited by miceless
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The idea behind no supply line is that it gives the aliens too much of an edge IMO. I understand that they work quite well when you might have to move supplies several hundred miles to the front lines, but what about moving them 450,000 light years? Part of the storyline involves not having direct communications with the motherworld, being on your own as the advanced force. So it might take years to even send communications. Maybe you could start off with a certain amount of elerium, and after X years another supply ship arrives with more. IMO having a smaller, steadier supply would be preferable to a huge shipload once in a great while.
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Not if those ships take a decade or more to reach their destination. They have been sent in advance to allow for a steady force build up, and when they arrive they can take the latest mail back with them, but even if it only takes 10 years to fly a single trip that takes 20 years to recieve first orders...
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And even if you can send some type of communication that travels faster, the returning ship might take several years. From a gameplay perspective, the player would prefer getting "funds" at least monthly. Imagine playing the current game and getting a lump sum every 5 years. Then you get to do lots of math to figure out what you can afford to build when. If you're lucky you don't run dry with a year to go. Same with elerium. A player won't want to deal with that, so you need a steady supply, either by regular smaller ships or by local control. If you have regular ships, then the premise that the aliens can't just overwhelm you doesn't make sense. So there must be some setup where the aliens are seperated yet able to produce what they need. Imagine us going to mars right now. We could, but regular supply ships would be out of the question. Colonists need to bring necessary supplies up front. Maybe the big brain can poop elerium... sorry, just remembered the South Park episode where the talking taco pooped ice cream... :blink:
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[quote name='Breunor' date='Aug 11 2003, 09:09 AM']The idea behind no supply line is that it gives the aliens too much of an edge IMO. I understand that they work quite well when you might have to move supplies several hundred miles to the front lines, but what about moving them 450,000 light years? Part of the storyline involves not having direct communications with the motherworld, being on your own as the advanced force. So it might take years to even send communications. Maybe you could start off with a certain amount of elerium, and after X years another supply ship arrives with more. IMO having a smaller, steadier supply would be preferable to a huge shipload once in a great while.[/quote]
I always thought the whole point of hyperwaves was for extremley fast communication. also the nearest solar system to us is Alpha centauri (hence all the games about it) which is 20-something lightyears away we can probably safely assume that the aliens are shipping supplys from no more than 1000 light years away, since, being an empire, they would probably wish to expand to outward instead of attacking a colony 250,000 lightyears away. Also according to the Elerium-115 entry, they can warp space and time, which would speed up travel signifacantly (how signifacantly is up to the designers). America probably had to ship supplys in planes going at best 500 miles per hour (I doubt they were using an SR-71 Blackbird to ship food). They were going 5,000 miles that would mean that since 500:5,000 = 100:1000 the aliens would have to ship at 100 light years an hour which is approxamatley 876,000x light speed to reach an equivalent system. How fast they can ship is up to the designers.

Also, assuming a ship model the ships would be going at maybe 20 knots?. That would mean a speed of 23.8 Miles per hour so since 23.8:5,000 = 4.76:1000 that would mean the aliens would have to travel 4.76 lightyears an hour which is approxomatly 41697.6x the speed of light. so unless they're shipping from Alpha Centauri (which they might be) or can go 40,000 times the speed of light I guess you guys are right.

EDIT: x-com is founded when the aliens are still scouting, meaning you would only be alloted a small group of sectiods and scouts. Also remember that you have no idea where the x-com base is and if you pointlessly search for it your government would probably replace you as commander.
EDIT: Yeah we amercians get into a lot of stipid wars (i.e. Vietnam)
EDIT: Man I had to edit this thing three times just to get the numbers right Edited by Ancalagon
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Just to nitpick, Alpha Centauri is only about 4.5 lightyears away...but nothing resembling planets has been found, IIRC. Here's spiffy [url="http://homepage.sunrise.ch/homepage/schatzer/Alpha-Centauri.html"]link[/url] about it, though.

I think that the alien supply line should be much longer.

-The Captain
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  • 2 months later...
Hmm, maby the aliens (you) need something on earth to make elerium? Like you have most of the ingredients on mars to make it, but you need some "special human sauce" or something to make it elerium? Just a brain fart meant to resurect an old topic. :)
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  • 3 weeks later...
Ok... Great ideas all around. lots of potencial with lots of time to think about it to :D.

Here is my idea to solve the "aliens should have uber weapons at start" and "it would be no fun to totally wipe out humans":

Ok, you have Xcom 1, you go to mars, take out the base. I assume we are basing all these ideas with the Xenocide thing, so here is an idea.

You play Xenocide as humans, you play alot like Xcom 1, beat the aliens back towards mars, take em out.

Boom alien campain starts... Your a huge hive like mind that the overlord (for lack of a better word) has decided that you need to take back Mars and eliminate the human threat. This is esscentially Xcom Backwards... aliens manage to sneak a base onto mars (which is totally over run by humans in teched out gear). You build up forces (how we will discuss later, this is just a story line idea), attack human bases, capture their technology, modify it into yours (overlord couldnt sneak in huge Battle ships and gear like that), develop other technologies... attack Xcom's "Space port", and kick them off Mars once more.

Then here is where multiplayer would come in... Aliens are now looking at earth to attack, humans are looking to push the aliens back where they came from (Say they were unprepared for the sneak alien attack on mars). the focus of the game would be the Moon... yes... the moon! The moon would perhaps be a jumpgate to Earth and mars... thus both teams cant attack each other instantly. Both will send scouts towards the moon (yea, humans lost all their avengers and the like in the fight for mars or something), and lets say the moon has a special resource (moon dust :D ) and it makes the moon a valuable asset to both teams. Lots of struggle on the moon (maybe human habitats to terrorise :) ), both sides can launch attacks on mars and earth, maybe sneaking a base on either, making the other team focus on something other then the moon or something.


This idea is very rough... i thought it up just a few moments ago, and i would like to have some input on how you feel.
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Actually, the moon HAS a valuable resource, albeit in very small quantites: Helium-3, believed to be a good source for cold fusion. (Of course, its usefulness is less obvious with E-115 present, but maybe they ran out? Explains the suddenly missing Avengers as well ^_^ ) Edited by j'ordos
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I have an idea for the supplys.

Lets say that the alien overmind (living in a galazy far far away) have some very sensetive sensor equiptment, or somehow gets a snatch of Earths location. They send out a mothership, and after the 10 years of travel (10 years a well rounded number), they crash into mars' meteor moons, and they crash into mars. "OMG HAX0RS!" They think, because they belive that we humans took them down. They starts to call for aid taking over the Earth. A steady supply of elerium and the like. They start building up the base.
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