Ufo Med Scout

[Guest Jim69]

Hey

 

Since I've just finished modelling the basketball and footie courts I decided that the best way to learn more modelling is by doing something with some more curves.

 

Now, for the med scout I got the impression from the CT document that this was gonna be more like the "traditional" UFO that has been reported in most sightings. Is this the way to go? And should I make the floor plan the same as in UFO, or have some peeps got some better ideas on a layout ( I couldn't find ne info suggesting otherwise ).

 

If the plan is much the same as in UFO then I'll start some concepts up and get 2 work, otherwise is there some discussion about this elsewhere? I thought I should find out b4 I start, but I'll do a little research into the basic shape seen in most places ne way.

[Aosar]

IIRC the medium scout was just a square box with five chairs navication computer and a ufo power source... Plus aliens ofcourse...

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah I remember what it looked like, but are we sticking 2 that design?

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I don't think any UFO floorplans have been finalized yet (other than small scout, which doesn't have much of a floorplan anyways). Last I heard, There were going to be multiple hull designs for each UFO with multiple floor plans for each hull.

 

The current doc (which is not finalized) was trying to be as generic as possible, so don't take it as canon.

 

-The Captain

 

edit: MIssing word

Edited July 26, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[Guest Jim69]

OK, I'll just do a concept type model, the floor plans can always be added l8r.

[Vaaish]

OK, I'll just do a concept type model, the floor plans can always be added l8r.

Don't put much detail into it yet, it'll save you alot of grief when the floorplans start coming in.

[Aosar]

Now that we are on the subject, shouldn't the power source be placed in a separate room, for radiation protection, or such? And does it allways have to be in the middle of the ship?

[j'ordos]

I thought E115 was a "clean" powersource, i.e. no radiation? You might want to get protection from an explosion though, as they still can do that (especially when fired upon )

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, it's a clean fuel but explosive, that's why it was contained in a seperate room in the middle in large scout, but in med scout there wasn't enough room so they were royally screwed when they crashed. If I keep the original area of the UFO then the floor plan should be easy enough 2 work out, IMO the larger ships will b the ones with the different plans as they have more space 2 work with, whereas this is just a 1 room ship.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

As far as I know, the only limit on hull design is size (ie: square footage). So they might end up with more than one room in a medium scout (one of my designs is a two floor layout, sort of cylindical looking). It would be best to get a senior member's opinion, though.

 

None of that should affect Jim69's concept though. I'm sure we'll have the orginal designs too.

 

-The Captain

[Guest Jim69]

Well, it only takes a little scaling and it's probably better if the insides and outsides are built seperatly and then linked 2gether.

 

Here's a concept on what I thought of doin, I originally drew a rounded diamond shape 2 keep true 2 the original, but after actually modelling it looked quite strange. I also added a dome on top that appears to be in almost every sighting of UFO's. Prehaps it could be something 2 do with anti-gravity?

 

Edit: BTW, the door is currently 2.5m high.

 

This ones pic 1.

Edited July 29, 2003 by Jim69

[Breunor]

You should be able to make any kind of hull design you like, realising that as mentioned before there will be interior floor plans that will need to fit into this hull. If you're going with an overall round or oval look, include an internal volume that is cut out of the inside, where these floorplans will go. Also make sure to create this ufo in levels, remember that each floor has to come out/turn invisible depending on which level you're looking at. So that makes it a bit more "interesting" when modeling... Since your ufo only has 1 floor you can get away with just having a clean seam for the roof to come off. The main stinker is regarding the floorplan area, I don't think it's been decided on yet. For now just leave a square or rectangular space available.

[Guest Jim69]

OK, thats what I had already done. Unfortunatly I don't think there's a way 2 hollow out the UFO so I have 2 do it by hand, here's what I done so far if ne1 wants ne changes I should prob hear them now so I don't waste an evenings work ::

 

I'll prob finish the footie court 2nite, I would finish the desk but I need some pics of computer textures ( I should be able 2 get my hands on a digi camera 4 that, so maybe 2morrow ).

 

Edit: Igonore, haven't decided on UFO shape yet so deleted pic

Edited July 29, 2003 by Jim69

[Guest Jim69]

Hey

 

How big should I make the doors? I was thinking, the doors were 1 square in UFO right? How the fcuk did the cyberdisk get out the door???

 

Edit: Here's my next concept model ( I am shite at drawin, so I'll just do em in 3D )

 

Which do peeps prefer? This design, or the one with the sphere ( BTW, this 1 has a lot less poly's so the sharpness isn't what u should look at )

 

This ones pic 2.

Edited July 29, 2003 by Jim69

[tzuchan]

A medium scout would have no business carrying any sort of terrorist aliens...

They only carry about 4 or 5 of the standard aliens, meaning sectoids, snakemen, floaters, mutons, and ethreals

[Guest Jim69]

Very true, but it was a standard 4 all ships wasn't it? Shall I just leave as is and then cross the terrorship bridge when we get 2 it?

 

Edit: And finally, a more rounded ship. Which do peeps prefer? 1,2, or 3? I'll number the posts 4 ur convinience ( This ones 3 )

Edited July 29, 2003 by Jim69

[tzuchan]

Most of the ufos had doors that were one person wide. Only certain classes like terrorships and battleships had doublewidth doors. Can't recall if there were other ufos with doublewidth doors. I think it's also to help with gameplay balance, to prevent you from just using HWPs to march into ufos.

 

So there are two types of hull doors

[Breunor]

The scouts only carried 'standard size' aliens, so just regular 1m wide doors are fine. Battleships, terror ships, and transports would require 2m wide versions.

[Vaaish]

I would suggest making the standard door width 1.5 or 2 meters so we don't run into clipping issues with character weapons.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

Micah and I discussed this a number of times a month ago, and he got a responce from the Seniors as follows (this is from an ICQ convo, cut and paste):

Micah:  Keep the same number and classes of ufos as UFO Defense, but redesign them with a set pattern.  meaning that they will be static for now/v1

 

Gold: static, as in only one design per categoryu, identivcal to X-Com?

 

Micah: subject to change way down the road, of course, but the programmers have spoken strongly against the random ones and the 10/race idea.  identical in that there will only be the same number of categories, yes but not identical in design the the xcom ufos.  and that will be that.

 

Gold: got it, one per category?

 

Micah: yes

 

So, to sum it up, as of 7/16/03 when this convo took place, the concensus was to have the same setup as X-Com in regard to UFO types, and how many designs of each type.

 

Hope this clears things up.

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

Hey -

 

Micah and I discussed this a number of times a month ago, and he got a responce from the Seniors as follows (this is from an ICQ convo, cut and paste):

Micah:  Keep the same number and classes of ufos as UFO Defense, but redesign them with a set pattern.  meaning that they will be static for now/v1

 

Gold: static, as in only one design per categoryu, identivcal to X-Com?

 

Micah: subject to change way down the road, of course, but the programmers have spoken strongly against the random ones and the 10/race idea.  identical in that there will only be the same number of categories, yes   but not identical in design the the xcom ufos.  and that will be that.

 

Gold: got it, one per category?

 

Micah: yes

 

So, to sum it up, as of 7/16/03 when this convo took place, the concensus was to have the same setup as X-Com in regard to UFO types, and how many designs of each type.

 

Hope this clears things up.

Gold

Huh? Is this a response 2 the door issue, which I take it is not, or 2 the UFO's? If 4 the UFO's then I was mearly presenting 3 types of concept ( since I can't draw wit a pencil very clearly ) 4 peeps 2 choose btween.

 

OK, well if the guns are carried sidewards in the animation ( wrong in military terms since the weapon would be constantly in sholder rdy 2 bring 2 bear, but could run into clipping problems with things infront, on the other hand there is a need 4 bigger doors ). If it is gonna b the latter then what is the maximum the barrel is gonna extend? This could b a pain in the arse 4 buildings as well, maybe the square 1mx1mx2.5m system needs 2 b evaluated.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

That was an answer solely to the number of UFO types. However, I think its safe to assume that since we are sticking to the original UFO types, the same would apply to the doors. That means only the larger UFOs should have doors that can accomodate alien terror species.

 

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

K, but I think Vaaish has a very valid point that needs considering by someone senior ( i.e. not me )

[GreatGold]

The scouts only carried 'standard size' aliens, so just regular 1m wide doors are fine. Battleships, terror ships, and transports would require 2m wide versions.

I think there is your verification .

 

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

What, so I should just ignore the possible clipping problem? I have no problem with that but it is gonna be quite a lot of effort 2 change it l8r when the complaints start rolling in:

 

"Oh FFS, the Autocannon went straight thru the wall of the ship, that was lame"

[Vaaish]

The scouts only carried 'standard size' aliens, so just regular 1m wide doors are fine. Battleships, terror ships, and transports would require 2m wide versions.

I think there is your verification .

 

Gold

Standard size aliens may fit through but will standard size flight armor with a blaster lancher?

 

That is what we are addressing here not multiple layouts or designs. Simply is there enough space to fit a soldier through w/o a cheesy clipping through the hull error.

 

When I modeled the Avenger I found that a 2x2 meter square gave enough room to have the soldier and accommodate a weapon plus any idle animations.

 

One solution that I see is making it so that the heavier armors that might cause clipping not be allowed through the smaller doors in buildings and small ufo's Should be simple to implement and adds in the "do I equip everyone with the biggest suits and hope no aliens hide in the buildings or do I use the personal armor for some and have a heavy squad for clearing the aliens outside"

 

Another option then would be maing walls destructable eg the solder can't fit through the door so he blows a hole in the wall to get in.

Edited July 30, 2003 by Vaaish

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Another option then would be maing walls destructable eg the solder can't fit through the door so he blows a hole in the wall to get in.

I beleive this actually a standard military/swat entry technique. If the door is too heavily secured to break down (ie: a steel core door), you go through the wall next to it (usually just plaster and 2x4s).

 

As an aside, this is great way to piss off your GM too. :o

 

-The Captain

Edited July 30, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[GreatGold]

Hmm, I hadnt realized the Power Armor made the oeratives so wide. I would then make the openings large enough to accomidate them, so that we maintain the original game-play. Up to the seniors though...

 

Gold

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I would say make the standard UFO doors 2m wide (probably base doors too), and 'double' UFO doors 3m. That allows bulky armor to get into the UFOs (and defend the x-corps base), but still restricts larger aliens & equipment (make tanks/terrorists 2.5m wide or so).

 

-The Captain

[Guest Jim69]

That sounds good, I'll do that unless ne1 has any objections?

 

Edit: Leave normal doors at normal size tho, then u can just blast it like vaaish said.

Edited July 30, 2003 by Jim69

[Breunor]

Clearance of weapons is an animation problem mainly, when a unit moves it needs to hold the weapon in front of itself to clear narrow points. This has been discussed a lot before, and it's just a scaling issue. Since a majority of models have been made based on the block model for scale, you should also follow that scale so we don't waste lots of time trying to tweak every object made so that it fits correctly. The original game made use of 1 meter squares for the movement grid, we should be able to do the same. If a model doesn't fit it will need to be rescaled so it does within reason.

[Guest Jim69]

So there's gonna be a seperate animation 4 walkin thru doors? That's no problem then, I won't bother scaling a door from 1mx1mx2.5m. Does ne1 have an opinion on which UFO shape 2 use, or shall I just pic myself?

[j'ordos]

I think the first one looks a bit too cartoonish. I'd go for 2, but I'm not too sure of that.

[Vaaish]

Clearance of weapons is an animation problem mainly, when a unit moves it needs to hold the weapon in front of itself to clear narrow points. This has been discussed a lot before, and it's just a scaling issue. Since a majority of models have been made based on the block model for scale, you should also follow that scale so we don't waste lots of time trying to tweak every object made so that it fits correctly. The original game made use of 1 meter squares for the movement grid, we should be able to do the same. If a model doesn't fit it will need to be rescaled so it does within reason.

If one character does not properly fit through a door we will not be able to resize JUST that character, all characters will have to be resized to make sure they are proportional to each other.

 

Resizing the characters also is not much of an option because by doing so we break the scale between the height of the door (2.5m) and the rescaled character (now 1.8m) so we end up having characters that look like they are in either a giant environment or are children sized

 

Also animation of them walking with hte gun outstreached will not be a problem but what about the guy who decides to have this trooper stand in the doorway? will we eliminate the possiblity of standing there and if so how? sime I thought we were going to eliminate the "squares" and go with a increment based movemnt similar to Battle Isle Andosia War.

 

basically the only safe solution of to model the personal armor and unarmored figures able to fit inside of these doors and then anything larger than that will haveto be occluded from entering through the door. I'm not against this as it will ad another dimension to the strategy.

[Breunor]

So there's gonna be a seperate animation 4 walkin thru doors? That's no problem then, I won't bother scaling a door from 1mx1mx2.5m. Does ne1 have an opinion on which UFO shape 2 use, or shall I just pic myself?

No, the animation of walking itself will need to allow the unit to fit through the door. Consider that doors on houses are at max 36" in the USA, so you don't even get the entire 1 meter. The unit needs to hold the weapon in such a way that they fit into these areas.

 

Tons of discussion has gone into making models as realistic as possible, I think it's pretty unrealistic to turn around and say that all our door and hallways are now 5 feet wide for some reason. If a unit is too wide to fit, then it will be rescaled to fit by either the modeler or another team member later on. I'm sure it would go smoother if the original modeler were to do it themselves.

 

It is true that if a soldier is in full battle armor and carrying a monstrous gun, they will not be able to swing the thing around in every nook and cranny of a room. If he runs up right behind another soldier and tries to shoot an alien in front of them both, there should be a 95%+ change you blow a hole through the teammate's back. This will be a new aspect of the game, and require the movement to be coded differently than the original I'm sure. But if a unit is wider than 36" when looking at it from the front, it will not fit through doorways. If that's a problem, the unit needs to be modified, not the environment.

 

Alien doors are unique in that they can be whatever they want to be, perhpas they were designed to allow large units through as well as small. Doors in military structures like access doors between facilities would very likely be oversized as well. Generic structures like houses would use standard building dimensions, so units that fit in the previous two might need to blast their way through these.

 

Hopefully all that doesn't sound harsh or whiney, but it's an agreed standard by the senior art members that we're using the block.3ds model to keep everything to scale. If you are making models for anything you should refer to the block at least once before sending the model out to make sure it fits. It's quite a hassle to scale some up, others down, rotate some and not others, and then try to line them all back up again.

[Breunor]

Clearance of weapons is an animation problem mainly, when a unit moves it needs to hold the weapon in front of itself to clear narrow points. This has been discussed a lot before, and it's just a scaling issue. Since a majority of models have been made based on the block model for scale, you should also follow that scale so we don't waste lots of time trying to tweak every object made so that it fits correctly. The original game made use of 1 meter squares for the movement grid, we should be able to do the same. If a model doesn't fit it will need to be rescaled so it does within reason.

If one character does not properly fit through a door we will not be able to resize JUST that character, all characters will have to be resized to make sure they are proportional to each other.

 

Resizing the characters also is not much of an option because by doing so we break the scale between the height of the door (2.5m) and the rescaled character (now 1.8m) so we end up having characters that look like they are in either a giant environment or are children sized

 

Also animation of them walking with hte gun outstreached will not be a problem but what about the guy who decides to have this trooper stand in the doorway? will we eliminate the possiblity of standing there and if so how? sime I thought we were going to eliminate the "squares" and go with a increment based movemnt similar to Battle Isle Andosia War.

 

basically the only safe solution of to model the personal armor and unarmored figures able to fit inside of these doors and then anything larger than that will haveto be occluded from entering through the door. I'm not against this as it will ad another dimension to the strategy.

I agree with you on this. Yes, the fixed grid system for unit position is being removed, so angles beyond 0/45/90 can be used when walking around. I expect there would need to be several animations where the unit pulls their weapon in towards the torso to provide clearence when a collision with the weapon is detected. I don't know how the system works, but I imagine if you're holding a heavy cannon at the hip and you're standing in a doorway when you turn, the gun is pulled up into a verticle position so it clears the doorway, then drops back down to the hip when it can. That might put a soldier in a position where he can see an enemy but can't shoot because of clearence. Definitely will add strategy.

[Guest Jim69]

OK, So the door system is remaining. Now, back towards the topic a little Ne1 else have an opinion on the UFO models? I have one vote 4 number 2, ne1 else?

[Breunor]

As I was reminded recently, you all should remember that until the interior layouts have been designed, these shells are only concepts in the most basic sense. You should only consider looks, as it will have to be totally redone once the interior is done. The tactical challenge is the key thing, so the shell will have to adjust to that. We'll have to section the hull off to chunks that can be blasted, and they have to match the interior wall chunks very closely to look good. So I wouldn't put much if any work into making anything other than "cool pics".

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, thats 1 of the reasons I aint put no more work on it yet, since I'm gonna wait till at least this floor plan is done ( That and 3DSM has crashed on the comp I was usin, I ave to get the CD and reinstall it on me new 1 ). I may start a topic about it if I can be arsed