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Stealth Combat Armor


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#1 Khai

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 01:57 PM

I'm sure this has already been thought of...but I checked around but couldn't find anything, is there any plan to have armor that reduces, not eliminates, the enemies ability to see you?

It should be light and low armor, maybe something like the personal armor from the original. I like to play a more stealthy game and as armor is a critical feature of these game, it'd be awesome to have support for my style of play. You also add a lot to the game by allowing a player to make stealthy snipers or covert infiltrators. Choices seem to make good gameplay.

Any plans?

Check this out if you think its not possible:

http://www.thegreenh...ist-invents.php

Its already been done...

Of course certain aliens should be immune to its effects, maybe those who use psi powers. But its possible for a suit to block or counter heat emission, so its possible to balance this however you wanted to...

#2 Shinzon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 02:15 PM

wow is that cloak really exists? O.o cant belive it...

I always thought why didnt x-com implement any snipers... The map size in xenocide should be large enough for a sniper... thye wouldve helped so much in the first ones... >.<

#3 Khai

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 02:23 PM

Yeah it really exists, I couldn't believe it either. Nanotechnology will make it even better: nanoscale molecular cameras absorbing a single photon of light and translating it to the back or front....hardly any power use either as its at a molecular level and you're just switching between cis/trans isomers. They're going to be cool.

#4 fidel_

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 03:17 PM

wow is that cloak really exists? O.o cant belive it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The idea behind it is pretty simple. Place a camera behind the cloak, and then project the image from this camera to the cloak. From the right angle and viewpoint it looks like the object is transparent. Still has some way to go before we'll see predators around though. :P
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#5 mikker

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 04:21 PM

This is really really REALLY old, isn't it? I've seen that example for like, 2 years ago...

Maybe they've completed it?

edit: the bone2 one really looks fake. If the thing does what i think it does, that simply wouldn't be possible. If anything, theres a picture of a skeleton behind him.

Edited by mikker, 30 January 2005 - 04:27 PM.

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#6 fux0r666

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 05:43 PM

It would be useful as a cloak inso far as they can get the amplitude and the frequency of the light to match the background. i.e. the surface can't be 'glowing' as it seems to in those videos. Another matter for consideration is the angle that you're being seen on. The most that camoflage would do for you is break up the human form by having the camoflage pattern remain still- so that you can move, and your disruptive pattern doesn't move with you in the shape of a man.

I think that it woul take a lot of planning in order for this technology to be useful in any kind of military stealth application... perhaps for camoflaging vehicles or something...

but I think it has much to offer the world of medicine.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#7 Shinzon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 05:48 PM

well it seems it might do alot better then current comuflage... but now i sorta get why predators and other cloaking objects create a sort of displacement and you can sort of see the outlines...

#8 red knight

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 06:07 PM

I knew about it, it has been arround a year or so. Interesting technology nonetheless.

We can consider it as an alien technology in the latter stages of the game to help a little more the aliens to make Xenocide more challenging. What do you think about it?

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#9 Khai

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 01:03 AM

Thats a good idea, I'd say it should be on both sides...aliens and humans. It makes sense to have it fitted to vehicles first for the humans, but aliens could start with it rather early in the game.

It'd be cool to have a 'non-power armour' alternative for the late game. I really like the personal armor in XCOM, but you can't survive the later levels without Powered Armor. Same goes for Fallout, the Combat Armor is just plain cool, but the chunky powered armor is better in EVERY way. Its disappointing and forces the player into one kind of playstyle. I'd rather build a quick agile force of commandos, than a group of hulking HALO Master Chiefs.

#10 Adun_Toridas

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 08:01 AM

WouldŽnt it unbalance the game.?

#11 Lambers

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 08:42 AM

I think it would be a good addition, and there will be a lot of balancing that will need to be done with the post v1.0 additions. It seems to me that as long as we can give it a believable explanation, we don't need to worry much that it doesn't really work all that well in reality, I mean there are quite a few things in the original that are not real, but believable because of the setting and the explanation in the UFOpedia =)

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#12 fux0r666

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 10:32 AM

For aliens? isn't that just a little bit too close to the movie monster we all know and love?

And better than current camo? I don't know.. it depends on the logistics of the thing and the end result. It might only be good in certain light values, etc. It looked pretty glowy to me.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#13 Khai

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 05:14 PM

I'd say that a suit that makes you hard to see is not the exclusive domain of that lovable fellow...and if it works, why not let them use it? I could see how it'd make the game tough, being shot at without seeing what is shooting at you is frustrating, but realistic and sorta fun sometimes. Especially since its a good reason to go Sgt Blain/Jessie Ventura with the minigun into the local jungle/city...That was always one of my favourite part of XCOM..the massive amounts of collateral damage my ops tended to inflict...

I think time will show that this type of camo will be far more effective than normal camo. Like all proof of concept prototypes, there is going to be some issues and that cloak is just something that 'one' professor in Japan came up with, its not even designed to military applications. Imagine what you could do with a couple million dollars and 80 great minds. It'd be awesome. I don't think a guy wearing it would be invisible, but you'd have to look twice, especially at night or a quick and tense situation. And those few seconds that it buys you just might be enough...

Edited by Khai, 31 January 2005 - 05:18 PM.


#14 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 07:29 PM

I think I've heard of the camo before. It uses cameras, some special LCD-like display, and specialized software to create that camo effect. Pretty damn awesome stuff. It would work great on people, since the display is already attuned to our type of eyesight. Would it work on the aliens, though?

http://www.cquest.ut...h1/sensory.html

Our eyes can only see a very small part of the EM spectrum. The website has a fairly small picture, but it shows just how little we do see. In order to fool a human eye, you only need to fake the colors in that narrow band. You could have an absolute garbled mess with the rest of the EM spectrum, and the human eye would not be able to tell the difference.

The problem arises with the aliens. If their eyes do not see colors exactly like ours, then the camo would not appear the same to them. There could be some light emmissions that make the cloak apear to glow like a flare to the alien eye. On some aliens it might work well, while on others it would make your agents even more visible than before. I doubt the cloaks would care, considering how they are.

I'm not trying to bash the idea. Rather, that our current implementation of the camo is only designed to target humans, and will have an unknown effect on the different alien races. It would definately add some more tactical complexity, though, and you can't go wrong with that. :P
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#15 Khai

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 12:26 AM

It should work theoretically on any aliens that see in the visible light spectrum...other spectrums would require more complexity...but honestly that would be possible also.

If you can take light of one wavelength from behind you and project it on the front of you, then you can do pretty much any wavelength of light that the guys see in. X-rays and other hard rays would be tougher as they're so high energy. But something like IR wouldn't be too hard to fix, you'd need another micro camera to pick up the spectrum behind you and then emit it onto the front of you so that you blend in.

Its all theory though...

For gameplay, I'd say YES! Certain aliens should see through the cloak straight away, especially hunter killer aliens like the Reapers or Chylassids (sp)....the other ones might have a tough time with it though, especially considering how some of them have 'body problems' like the sectiods and Ethereals...I'd say that it would fool mutons also maybe...but the weakness should be that the hand to hand 'dog like' aliens or those that depend on Psi/other senses see you.

#16 Sinscale17

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 04:01 PM

I swear this is the fourth time today I've seen a thread on an idea I was already toying with, stealth armour/auto camo with a light defence but invisibility at distances. Basically the Apocalypse cloaking device, but without having to hold anything, snipers able to shoot and move before you could get a bead on their location.... And then researching their personal cloaking devices to make a movement assisted All-Terrain Stealth Armour System for scouts and laser sword wielding ninja wannabes. :D

This could quite easily be achieved in game mechanics as simply halving the visible range of one of these puppies on the same principle as "nighttime" vision. Creatures that could see better at night could then by extension be better at "seeing" cloaked units.

If the technology is alien in design, then something even more advanced might occur, elerium generated dispersal fields cause the entire light spectrum to neatly bend around them and carry on going. It's noticably distorted, but only barely, and lends itself more to the "proximity" notion.
And even if the alien IS visible in the field of view, it doesn't actually get mentioned as being visible, so the controller might get really abnormally good at detecting what seem to be cloaked alien traces, or paranoid enough to waste a missile on a false alarm.
People might have to introduce a detector that detects psi-signatures around four different thrown sensors in four mini-screens just to get a bead on some well hidden enemy. Tactics would be awesome until finally you researched the technology yourself, and could send entire troops of invisible melee units to carve up the population, or lure in a bunch of Chrysalids towards your (only) visible man standing alone in the street before getting shot to pieces by cloaked units' reaction fire.

Actual armour stats might actually be worse than personal armour, though possibly with a time unit bonus, but the amount of fun you could have with the technology would be incredible, I support this idea 100% no matter how it's worked through.
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#17 NKF

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 05:56 AM

I've always thought that armour should be much more than just a simple damage reduction modifier (or modifiers) and a cosmetic change. Well, mainly.

Add weight, noise, bulk and various other factors into the equation and your different types of armour become a bit more interesting.

A full suit of power armour has got to be heavy. Never mind all the tech gadgets and servos and what have you that keep the person inside upright. You'd be able to hear the suit a mile away if it were walking on a noisy surface (metal surfaces like in the UFOs). Also being a huge hunk of walking alloys, you are going to be spotted. You'd definitely have power to fight back and the ability to soak up the damage, but you are still going to be seen and heard. For balance purposes, you could even slow down your walking speed of soldiers in power armour (not air speed when using jump jets - but ground speed).

Personal armour is light. So the person wearing it would have much more freedom of movement and can thus walk a lot softer and move much faster.

Perhaps each soldier could have a noise/visibility level indicator to show how much noise they're making or how easy they are to be seen. If they make a loud noise near an alien, the alien will look to see what's there. With different suits, weights, etc, your noise/visibility level changes. Camo-kits like in Ja2 and other stealth gadgets and tools could augment these levels. Yes, yes, this idea is actually heavily inspired by the game Thief.

In any case, I'm all for any means of keeping the 'personal armour' type of armour useful in the later game. I like big bulky robot-like commandos walking about the battlefield, but I don't want everyone to be like that. You can't win every battle by direct confrontation alone.

edit:

Actually, I think I might have missed the point of this thread. This is what happens when you come in late and try to quickly understand everything by simply scanning for keywords - and I think what I'm trying to say is already covered elsewhere. ;)

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Edited by NKF, 26 February 2005 - 06:28 AM.

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