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Falling To The Dark Side


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#1 Elros

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 04:03 AM

I'm quite close to finishing my TB game on normal. I was thinking of trying an RT game and possibly bumping the difficulty up a bit.

Does anyone have any advice as to differences in strategies for RT? I've noticed lots of comments about dual wielding, but is there anything else I should be looking out for?

#2 NKF

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 06:12 AM

Learn the art of pausing. It'll serve you well. Also make use of the different time compression settings. The slowest is the best when you're just learning the ropes or when there are lots of things going on around you and you want to monitor them.

You might want to fiddle with the auto pause settings as well, but I generally switch them all off. It might sometimes be helpful to set it so that it pauses whenever an alien is spotted.

Note that dual weilding works in TB as well. The only difference is that it doesn't increase the firing rate of the shots. You do end up alternating the weapons though when you shift-click to fire.

Grenades will switch over to a timer setting. After you've set it, the timer gets armed the moment the grenade is so much as moved from the hand. You'll probably find the blast on impact setting to be more useful for general use. There isn't a blast-on-impact setting in the timer slider, but you can continue to use the TB shortcut for this mode. i.e. right clicking the grenade. Note that you can use this to turn proximity mines and boomeroids into normal grenades. The timer settings are useful for timing grenades so that they blow up while they're still on you (anti-brainsucker use) or if you want the grenade to blow up in mid-air.

With movement, run uses the most stamina. Walk mode conserves energy (doesn't gain, but doesn't waste stamina) and allows you to walk and shoot back with reaction fire at the same time. Remember that as all other movement modes do not allow you to shoot at the same time while moving. Shooting while moving incurs a minor penalty to accuracy.

The normal disposition modifier is sometimes useful as it allows your agent to sidestep when standing near a corner and return fire with reaction fire.

There are probably many more things you'll notice, but you'll quickly adapt.

- NKF
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#3 Elros

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for the advice NKF. :master:

#4 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 11:52 AM

Also, Proning when you see a brainsucker trying to latch onto your face :P
Oh dear, ahah.
Nkf how the heck did you leave that one out? :|
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#5 NKF

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 01:44 PM

That's because it works in both modes! ;)

Although in real time you do get a chance to react the moment you see the brainsucker. In turn based you don't have this option.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 03 July 2007 - 02:15 PM.

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#6 Steelion

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 03:26 PM

While we're on the subject of brainsucker deterrents- Stand in a doorway. Brainsuckers cant jump onto your head AND fit through the door.
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#7 Elros

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 01:41 AM

Does flying protect you from brainsuckers? I think I remember one jumping at least 2 tiles up and getting me before. I can't remember if it succeeded though.

#8 NKF

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 01:41 AM

Something I recalled while posting to a discussion on Strategycore. Medikit operation.

If I remember correctly, healing in Turn Based is instantaneous, ala the previous X-Com games. In real-time they take time to heal wounds. In fact medikits will only heal wounds completely if you are not moving and standing on solid ground. Moving to a different tile will switch the healing process off, and flying makes the medikit behave the same way as if you were to switch the medikit on while you're moving - where no healing is done. Turning in place is okay.

So for effective medikit use in real-time combat: Stay still and don't fly until healed.

Can anyone confirm if switching the medikit on while you're moving or flying will stifle the blood loss? I know it won't allow the wound to cure, but can anyone confirm if it reduces the speed of the blood loss? I have this feeling that it does not, but have no evidence to prove or disprove it.

Another neat thing about double weilding in RT is that you can use two medikits to heal two wounds at the same time!

This also reminds me of another neat RT trick. It might work in TB as well, but it's much more useful in RT as you can walk around continuously. Relative scanning with the motion scanner.

With the motion scanner switched on, you'll normally see anything moving appear on it. Now, if the person holding the scanner is moving, everything from the walls to corpses to items on the floor and even to stationary enemies will be moving relative to the scanner. This means everything around the scanner will show up on the screen as ghost blips and lines(walls). It's hard to master scanning this way as it picks everything up. But it has its uses.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 04 July 2007 - 02:04 AM.

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#9 zaimoni

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 06:02 AM

This also reminds me of another neat RT trick. It might work in TB as well, but it's much more useful in RT as you can walk around continuously. Relative scanning with the motion scanner.

Already checked...no, does not work in TB.

#10 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:15 PM

Nkf, I turn the med pack on while moving, it just slows down healing rates, but it doesnt seem to stop them
They cant patch up perfect while moving, they just get to their destination and once they stop moving they are instantly cured.
Its kinda silly ^_^'
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#11 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 12:50 AM

The Power ... of the Dark Side

I'll chime in here and say that, in real time, you can micromanage a small number of agents to take the fullest advantage of cover. As I've said ad nauseam in my Commando thread, an agent can hide behind strong cover, pop out, fire off some shots and throw a grenade, pop back behind cover to dodge missiles that are sure to come.

Of course, you should definitely heed the RT ways to throw off brainsuckers:
1. drop a grenade on a short, short timer. Hurts your agent, but kills the brainsucker
2. Go prone (lie down).

The motion scanner trick is, of course, priceless. It takes some practice, but it sure is a great resource. It can be overlooked, to be sure, but it adds finesse to your technique.

But the true dark side in RT comes with the teleporter. All on pause, you can teleport as many times as you have charged teleporters. You can prime and drop short-timer grenades, effectively instanteously. As far as the bad guys see, one second, you're far ahead, engaging them in a firefight. The next moment, you're gone, and grenades, vortex mines, and stun gas grenades are exploding everywhere. When you get to this point and hone your teleporting-commando technique, you're not fighting with soldiers, or even special forces. You're in command of Sith Lords, who are so far beyond their opponents that only one can defeat entire crews of downed UFOs or defence forces of temples and gang buildings. Essentially, you have force mind control (PSI), force speed (teleporters), and a light saber (power sword, if you please).

THAT is the dark side.

It sends chills up my spine just thinking about it. I think I'll go back in and play some teleporting ultra-commando missions. :-)

#12 Elros

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 07:47 AM

I thought chills generally travelled down spines, not up? Or is this a sith thing?

Again, thanks for the pointers peoples. I shall try them out the moment I fix my pc

#13 Steelion

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 09:03 AM

All these "commando" posts make me fell bad. My strategy consists of waiting for the aliens to come to me, then laying waste with toxigun fire.
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#14 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 11:49 AM

Aiki's commando posts make me sick.
I do that stuff with Rookies :\
He needs maxed out agents.. :P!
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#15 NKF

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 12:40 AM

That's the prize for Aiki's hard efforts. But, with the multi-teleporter strategy, your agent's physical skills are usually irrelevent.

I don't know, I haven't played the game in a long while now, but decided to give a few starter missions a go. Straight into superhuman, and a human and hybrid pair went off for a couple of missions. Armed with a pair of grapples and a pair of autocannons.

They did okay, but eventually got slaughtered by spitters. The autocannon gunner was absolutely brilliant and took down 3 multiworms in succession! Everything went well until I fell into two nasty traps that I often advise players to avoid.

The first is to split up. There were only the two, so this made them even more vulnerable than ever. Luckily the hybrid did not die from brainsuckery, just too much bile. See, the problem here was that by this time the autocannon gunner was very badly wounded, so I put left her to guard a ramp. The hybrid was too heavily weighed down, so I ditched a few of my precious grenades for speed (could only walk most of the mission). The brainsucker avoiding and snatching of the pods was amazing to start with, and it would've worked but but I ran out of grenades and fell into the next problem with the added limitation of a 5 tile firing range.

The other is where I forgot to run for cover and decided to duke it out with a prolonged long range firefight between the autotaxis. Autocannons are great in pairs and aimed for medium ranged firefights, but when you're so badly wounded that your accuracy is practically nil, you cannot afford to do this. And I did.

I'm rusty, and relearning the RT mode took a bit of effort. But to wipe out a good contingent of aliens with a pair of autocannons only to get wiped out by the last two spitters was lots of fun. Even got away with +50 points at the end of the mission too.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 06 July 2007 - 12:50 AM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#16 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 09:44 AM

Nkf, I cant help but giggle at your misunderstanding.
I use One Stun gun and One auto cannon on One Agent ^^'

Usually I do this with a Droid do to their higher death capabilities.. :D

I always have trouble even in pairs when theres massive ammounts of brain suckers, Sadly no matter how much I control their firing modes, they always seem to miss that One important shot :(

Guess Humans and Mutants arent supposed to solo early game eh? :P
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#17 Steelion

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 11:19 AM

keep 'em prone. the orange balloons stun themselves!
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#18 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 02:34 PM

Hyperworms love to eat an agent lieing down.
More of a target for those little bastards..
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#19 Steelion

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 02:52 PM

So use machine guns and autocannons on full auto. :rolleyes:
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#20 NKF

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 04:55 PM

Misunderstanding? Actually, I wanted a dedicated grappler and an autogunner in this instance. ;)

Brainsuckers and hyperworms weren't too much of an issue. When the multiworms popped too close to my autocannon gunner, a quick switch of the primary gun's ammo to HE shells was all that was needed to fend off the worms. When my hybrid was on his own and under fire, he had to go prone to avoid the brainsuckers and diligently snatched up every pod that was thrown his way. In previous games I would've kept them for a bit of a skeet shoot later on.

My biggest fault was to get dragged into a battle of attrition with the spitters. Cover and full auto bursts in close quarters would've saved the day.

A human or hybrid soloing it at the start is not impossible. It's just doubly hard as you have to keep a watchful eye out for brainsuckers all the time, which is one problem a solo android doesn't have to face.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 07 July 2007 - 05:17 PM.

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Number of members: 1

#21 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 11:09 PM

Yes, just another reason I hate brain suckers.
I can handle heavy disruptor fire, but brainsuckers have always been so evil to me..
Especially back when I was a moron who put scientists in security grids during base attacks O_o...
having to slaughter your own research staff is a terrible thing :(
They dont even fight back, so its boring AND wasteful -.-'

Edit: Also when I had the DOS version instead of collectors, they seemed to take control of droids as well.
Differance in versions? :O

Edited by NRN_R_Sumo1, 07 July 2007 - 11:10 PM.

Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#22 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 11:44 PM

Aiki's commando posts make me sick.
I do that stuff with Rookies :\
He needs maxed out agents.. :P!


Really? Early-game rookies with teleporters??? :-)

I believe commando missions CAN be done with early-game rookies, and I've tried it a bit, but it's touchy. These agents are my friends and family - I just can't send them out like that when it's so risky. You're braver than I am to try, but I confess I'm slow to evolve. I do it, but takes time. In XCOM, in anything in life. It takes me time to digest Earth-shaking changes before I embrace them.

NKF - I humbly thank you for your compliments. Truth is, my ultra-commando techniques were inspired almost wholly by your very posts.

#23 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 01:53 PM

Actually, I dont bother with teleporters usually. ^^
I do alot of what you do (solo missions)
with fresh out of the hiring agents.
Im currently doing a no armour campaign, and casualties arent all that bad so far.
Although it seems that Ive proven to myself that the helmets save you from brainsuckers ALOT XD!
Friendly fire when saving from brain suckers has been an issue..

The pocket grenade doesnt work anymore with Ap's.
so Im basically running out of stun grenades. ^^...

The pistols are my base weapon right now, since Ive run out of ammo on everything but the snipers :|

I havent even Seen a disruptor yet, and Im Glad.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#24 Elros

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 02:33 AM

Question, question, question

What effect do TUs have on RT mode?

And are they as important to your character as in TB?

#25 Elros

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 02:35 AM

Oh, and what about reactions?

#26 Gimli

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 02:51 AM

Speed controls your TUs. So in TB speed says how much TUs you have, and in RTwP how fast your units move. The reactions should play a role in both, although I've never been able to identify when a shot is caused by reaction in RTwP.

#27 Elros

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 03:30 AM

So it doesn't affect how many shots you can fire?

#28 NKF

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 05:54 AM

From my own experience, reactions seem to control how quickly the AI tell yours units to return fire on their own. I find it faster to just order the attack yourself.

The other use that has been discussed here so far is that it speeds up how quickly you can spot an alien in your agent's field of vision.

I haven't verified the validity of either use for reactions, but the reports I've seen so far on its behaviour seem fairly consistent.

- NKF
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#29 Elros

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 06:19 AM

I've finally fixed my PC, so I can try this stuff at last.

Thanks for the help guys