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#1 Gustarx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:39 PM

My thoughts about defending bases, cq the X-Com project:

In general:
- I try to avoid attacks on the first place by grounding the ufo's that could led to the attack. At the moment I dont have yet researched Hyperwavedecoder, but it is possible to ground All ufo's that could led to attack on the bases;
- the best defence is the best visibility at the opponent, means, Iv invested first in 7 new bases with Small Radar; when I had the cash, I invested in hangars, so interceptors could be transferred to that base; next step was saving/using cash for Large Radars. With greater visibility incoming ufo's will be spotted sooner, can be tracked longer; with more incoming ufo's more income for other greater projects, like building 8 hyperwave decoders at once and to have the cash for the start of 2 new facilities for the radars that become obsolete when built of Hyperwave Decoder is finished.

For Base 1:
- the first base is different then the base design for all other bases. Means the tactic in future will also be different, when Im about to eh invite, and being a nice/good host for, the newcomers, ; -). Im thinking to invite my guests, when my facilities have been built first. So I can serve them well. May they come sooner, they will find allready a lot of personell ready to serve them. The 150 technicians, 27 engineers and 23 butlers (or eh soldiers) I have atm, are housed in the upperrightcorner, nice together. I dont want my butler/soldiers using riding servingtablets or eh shopping trolley or pushcart, ehm I mean read tanks, ;-);
- The mainstructure of base 1 is from AccessLift, from West to East Liv.Quarters and from AccessLift from North to South General Stores. The best defence for base 1 depends mostly of what the OTHER 7 bases are able to track. Iv situated the other bases at the world map, so that each incoming vessel could be spotted;
- for base 1 Iv situated the Large Radar, leftmiddle direct next to the Small Radar. Both become obsolete after researching and building Hyperwave Decoder. At that moment I could built there at once a new hangar. When that hangar is delivered, I could then the hangar at the bottomright dismantle and built there new facilities;
- an other thought Iv for base 1 is to dismantle some ofthe existing Laboraties, when Iv researched the main projects, and building Psylabs instead. While the Psylabs are under construction, the hangar at bottomrightcorner has less accesspoints. In the Uploaded file its possible, I thought, hope which of the existing labs I could dismantle; as for the built of workshop 2 for base1, it has the same thought, at a certain moment later, I could dismantle the workshop in the centre of the base; also the aliencontainment becomes at a certain moment more or less obsolete

Summary for base 1 when uninvited guests come sooner then expected, Iv concentrated my soldiers in the upperrightcorner. First tactical missionmove is to bring the soldiers at their best position and then going from east to west, and via accesslift from north to south. Its perhaps possible to use 4 soldiers as a kind of decoy when they act like a tank. I mean they stay as close together as a tank is, that way the guests may think the shopping trolley is there!


....

Oké

the design and thoughts about the other 7 bases r slightly different. In the uploaded file, prtscrn Iv added some basic thoughts, but in paint I dont have the space to express my thoughts as is possible in the comments readible in this post.

In general, as a kind of summary, for the 7 bases Iv built in the previous months:
- at the end of January I had 7 new bases, all with 7 Small Radars, 7 Hangars and 7 General Stores. From begin febr. 1999 till end March Iv invested in all the other facilities: Large Radar had the highest priority; then 7 more General Stores; then Liv.Quarter for base 2, with reserved cash for the workshop at that base, so I could start recruiting new personell from an other base, then the first base and I would have a 2nd workshop at a different base so I could transfer and invest what for me the best configuration would be for the existing and upcoming engineersprojects, see the other recently launched topic about my thoughts about Manufacturing Profitability. as the third base in SouthAfrica is most close to th first base, 10 hrs transfertime it was, is, the first base I transfer (all) loot to, in first instance. The 5th base is at Pacific and is the general base to buy the items that cant be manufactured, but I think I could use, which from that point needs to be distributed to all other bases. this base has average the shortest transfertime to any other base, from 10-14 hrs;
- for long I wasn't sure about the location for the AccessLift: "Was the place were the Small Radar is built, not a better place?" However instead of starting a new game, with all the other insights allready experienced, I proceeded. Some weeks/months ago I saw that the second hangar also could be built as Iv made a prt-scr from, in the 'Possible future scenario';
- with the cash I have at the start of this month I'm able to make those 'Possible future scenario's'. However the basic basedefence-ability isn't finished.

....

My thoughts about my, this, basedefence-design:
- Hangars and General Stores have to be delivered at the start of a new Month. Preferable May. So first I need the cash to built 7 hangars at day 7 of April, later in this month, around Day 22 I want to start building all needed General Stores at the same day. Costs are about 3m, 150k x 3 x 7 = 3.150.000 for General Stores; 1.400.000 for 7 Hangars; I could of course delay the built of (some) of the hangars. (Perhaps thats the reason why I make this post, to give me some more time to think about the decisions I make ingame, ; -) )
- when the Hyperwave Decoder is researched I can built that facility in the most underrightcorner. With the built General Stores, I then able to dismantle first the Small Radar. I could built there the most advanced or cheapest basedefencemodule. The backbone for the rest of the base is however depending on the General Stores, yet to built. When new, improved, basedefence-modules are researched, I could built them also, preferable, at the place where now the Small Radar is located, when the new basedefencemodule is under construction, the backbone is, will still be the mainroute to engage the opponent;
- if desired for a specific other base I could built a third hangar in the upperrightcorner;
- the thought for replacing the Small Radar for basedefence-modules counts also for where now the Large Radar is located; the Small Radar is however located at a critical chokepoint. If that module is lost the rest of the modules North of them are also lost.


Because I didn't see at the X-com-Wikipages such kind of layout, maybe interesting food for others ?????


Im a bit tired, so my excuse, if some of my thoughts aren't so well readable, as perhaps could be. I hope the prt-scr Iv made will show/ give, some others, some new thoughts about how perhaps to improve to defend their base.


The Uploaded File, with prt-scrs is:

#2 Fomka

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 02:09 AM

About the special design of the 1st base.
I prefer to rebuild the first base by the plan described in "Overhauling the Starter Base" part of "Base Layout Strategy" article in X-COM wiki.
It worked well the one and only time I had base defense with this layout versus human opponent in "UFO: The Two Sides" multiplayer game. The description of that is in "Early X-COM base defense" topic on ufotts.ninex.info forum.

I agree, that the best defense is attack: it's better to down all UFOs that are about to attack your base. It is hard to down a battleship without plasma cannons, so that type UFO can attack the base sometimes. Base defenses will help here, but now, after multiplayer experience as X-COM versus human opponents as Aliens, I have a new approach for base defense, called SoS: "Swarm of Soldiers".

Simply have 80 armed soldiers at base defense and you will repell any attack. If the attacks happens frequently one-after-one, this approach may fail.
That approach is not tested in vanilla X-COM, maybe there are some limitations on having 80 soldiers and equipment for them on base defense.

Edited by Fomka, 30 July 2011 - 02:19 AM.


#3 Sorrow

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 07:46 AM

I use X-Com-util for a good starting base layout.

Is there a mod that overrides the item limit?

#4 NKF

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:20 PM

My main base layout changes from game to game, but it often follow the same theme of moving all alien entrance points to one side of the base, and everything else to the other. Where possible, I try to isolate the lift so that it only connects with the hangars and nothing else. This isn't always easy to achieve in the first base.

Even in TFTD where the aliens can start a little bit inside the base, I find that this layout provides the best way to control the majority of them. Also important in the defence plan is to have a long firing corridor into a hangar.

My minor listening/intercept outposts are built with a minimalist and almost random design. My favourite one so far is the daisy wheel or propeller design with one hangar acting as a central hub with facilities projecting off it in all four directions. It sounds crazy (and probably is), but you do start the mission surrounding the aliens.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 30 July 2011 - 03:28 PM.

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#5 Gustarx

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:22 PM

For some reasons I wanted to re-reply. I felt the urge to. I know month's and month's has past, ...

; -) .






About the special design of the 1st base.
I prefer to rebuild the first base by the plan described in "Overhauling the Starter Base" part of "Base Layout Strategy" article in X-COM wiki.
It worked well the one and only time I had base defense with this layout versus human opponent in "UFO: The Two Sides" multiplayer game. The description of that is in "Early X-COM base defense" topic on ufotts.ninex.info forum.

From the very first moment destroying dismantling, selling/sacking what is offered by humankind to defend Earth seems to me isn't very smart or logic. The core of my playstyle is perhaps best to describe as:

Avoid meeting direct contact with Ethereals at Earth

A. so BaseDefence is also focused with above in mind. First Base is the most important one. It needs to be covered asap, with:
1. more other Bases, a bit in a circle around Base1, with max coverage Earth
2. better radars to detect Alien-activity, but not necessarily on Base1 itself at day1, priority is:
a. small radars at all bases, then DetectionUpgrade1
b. large radars, BUT: cuz of space, its more logic to invest first in large radars at other bases then Base1 and reserve a spot for ur first HWD at Base1
3. "NO ALIEN ON EARTH" (hihihi) -> so I bolded ur txt in quote below
4. Constructing of Mindshield: Base1 has from the start the most humans, they trigger the aliens, so cover their brainactivity. Constructing MindShield at Base1 has priority above constructing HWD's at other bases.
5. DetectionUpgrade2: Construct HWD's in a circle around Base1, start constructing of 2nd HWD at other side of Earth, then where Base1 is located.

B. All Aliencontact is focused to train the brain for direct contact with Ethereals. Ethereals can be everywhere. It could be inside me, it could be inside of u. Questions Iv continuously in mind when engaging Aliens on the battlefield, in tactical mode are:
- how can I improve my moves?
- how fast can I detect Alien-activity, without they see me?
- is it really a SnakeMen, Sectoid, or other specie if I detect one, or could it be an Ethereal in disguise? Iv to smile inside, its a game, but I play with that feel. ("Who opened the tolietdoor?" -> "hehh, oh glad, I was it, myself some minutes before, ...")
... more questions ofc, but these are the core, ...
With in mind that I play merely against Etherals from the start of each BattleTactical-mission, I pay closely attention to all details of that mission. As example Im now in the endfase of Ufo57, a Supplyship, I know from testing only 1 SnakemenLeader is left. However, last hours Iv spent lot of time, researching how to optimize the weaponchange between men, bringing the 'best' weapons to the front. Each Tu (=TimeUnit>for the new commander amongst us, ; -) ) & EnergyU counts, so I use a lot of LifeTime (not GameTime) to optimalise my moves for each member of my crew, with a bit more priority for officers and frontmen. (see also topic Habits started by me, for some prtscrns, I could make and attach with this post more, but one seems to me sufficient.)

Comment by the attachement 1: When restarting playing I didn't realise to reserve a spot for HWD, Iv built the large radar next to the small one. When construct of Psylab is finished, I use that spot for the MindShield, upperrightcorner is ment for a third workshop. .... Or, hé, I see it now, it could be the reserved spot for the HWD, after finishing I could dismantle small and large radar and built a new hangar, ... ha nice, a new insight, ... :-) .


To other Commanders: "Do Uv also noticed that playing on the UpperDeck of Ufo's, movement of crew is slacking?" It feels to me they start moving in a bit of thick air. It could be just me, ofc, but I was wondering if the programers could have programed it. It feels logic to me, their slacking, near the CommandCentre of each Ufo, or A-Base on Earth, more closer to their 'eyes' and 'ears', the 'brains' and the 'brains' of other races they use, 'The Enemy Unknown', in short the presence of Ethereals. But in fact its the AI, the programers could have programed it. This is also one reason, why the game still is so succesful. After all, maybe the real oponent is ur Own Brain, ...

I agree, that the best defense is attack: it's better to down all UFOs that are about to attack your base. It is hard to down a battleship without plasma cannons, so that type UFO can attack the base sometimes. Base defenses will help here, but now, after multiplayer experience as X-COM versus human opponents as Aliens, I have a new approach for base defense, called SoS: "Swarm of Soldiers".

...

Simply have 80 armed soldiers at base defense and you will repell any attack. If the attacks happens frequently one-after-one, this approach may fail.
That approach is not tested in vanilla X-COM, maybe there are some limitations on having 80 soldiers and equipment for them on base defense.

...


[start ....]
: -) (...)
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Happy Life

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