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Medikit Options


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#1 Stow

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:07 PM

I liked medikits in the old version but I always felt they were kinda limited.


They need stuff like combat enhancing drugs in them too. Maybe make it research dependant like as you do more research, more options are added to the kit.

#2 Snakeman

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 03:14 PM

I don't mind the more-options-bit with the kits, however I think it should then effect how many "doses" you get with them the more variety you put in it.

If this were implimented however, and we can mix and match what goes in them, its probably also a feasible discussion to talk about using different colored textures for the kits - so they stand out from the original incarnation better. The thinking here though is that we tend to bring more than a few on a mission, and you'll want something to distinguish them apart if they had different abilities than the next in line does.

#3 Blood Angel

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:21 AM

I saw that post and thought "How would it be implemented?"

Then I figured it out.

Medikit ammo.

Each vial is good for only 1 type of heal, and 20 shots of it. Types are:

Antiseptic soothing gas: Heals fatal wounds

Stimulant boosters: Raise morale and energy, decrease firing skill.

Relaxant: Increases firing skill and morale, lowers energy.

Psionic buffers: Raise psionic strength (must have psionic theory researched.)

Chrysalid Antivenom: Turns zombies back into humans/X-corps units (must have Chrysalid researched.)

Wound sealant gas: Raises HP

Edited by Blood Angel, 30 September 2005 - 10:23 AM.


#4 Blehm 98

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 11:24 AM

chrysallid anti-venom would be useful only the turn the soldier was hit

i'm not too sure about healing, that seems slightly unrealistic...
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#5 Snakeman

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:48 PM

Healing was in the orginal game. But I don't know if its an accurate term, as its probably in this context anyway, triage. The healing/recovery takes place back at the base hospital, and the kits major function is to stablize the wounds enough to get them there. But yea, probably just a semantics issue on that one.

#6 kashyyk

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:15 AM

Chrysalid Antivenom: Turns zombies back into humans/X-corps units (must have Chrysalid researched.)


you could inject it in your blood stream before the battle you just need there thats all

#7 gu35s

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:42 PM

Well, in that case it could look like this.

Chrysalid (Spawn) > attack human (w/o antidote) > human becomes zombie > give antidote > zombie returns to human

Chrysalid > attack human (w/ antidote) > human got impaled > dead.

That's pretty realistic, no?
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#8 sir_schwick

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 07:57 PM

I always understood that the human gets a nasty bite which injects the venom. Antidote suggests that you could reverse and infection, but only to a certain extent. Auto-injectors would be more realistic, and a good item for integration into armor or to be carried by soldiers.

Combat stimulants often help increase focus and reduce severity of sensation to pain for a surprising duration. Overdosing and psychosis is a risk of continued used, as with most stimulants. Most likely research into better combat stimulants could be done as certain other research is completed. Most obvious candidates is autopsies(strange but useful organic compounds) and biologically related categories.

#9 kashyyk

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 07:08 AM

Chrysalid > attack human (w/ antidote) > human got impaled > dead.

That's pretty realistic, no?


LOL

#10 gu35s

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 04:50 PM

Chrysalid > attack human (w/ antidote) > human got impaled > dead.

That's pretty realistic, no?


LOL

:D :fensing:

I always understood that the human gets a nasty bite which injects the venom. Antidote suggests that you could reverse and infection, but only to a certain extent. Auto-injectors would be more realistic, and a good item for integration into armor or to be carried by soldiers.


Wouldn't that be too easy? I mean say you got 3 shots of antidote avaiable, that means you got to be bitten 4 times before becoming zombie :\
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#11 sir_schwick

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 05:35 PM

You still have a pretty nasty bite. Also, Chrysallids are Terror weapons, not tactical ones. Against a prepared enemy such weapons would not be that useful. Also, you still have to waste research time finding such vaccines.

#12 GARAK

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 03:14 PM

vaccines or total immunities should be researchable. Perhaps after research you can make each soldier permanently immune for 20k each back at base.

#13 Snakeman

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 06:47 PM

Well if not a researchable counter to what Chryssalids do, maybe a biological weapon. I'm not sure how far to take this though, cause given the different alien biologies at play, you might be talking about several breeds of either vaccines or biological weapons types that have to be taken into consideration.

Also it doesn't make much sense there would always be some kind of weapon, tool, or biological component that would be a one-thing-trumps-everything type of scenario either. I think the problem should be a mix if anything.

Call this an extention of the gas grenade/alien atmosphere ideas from that thread I suppose, but in terms of research, it could be broken up into a few main branches. Branches in research that lead to something new, offer a bit of news, or dead ends. It sorta begs the questions what should lead to something new, what should just be informational, and what should dead end in the tree.

For the purposes of medkit ideas though, or just a separte medical ability (something that might help ideas for a research line of various paths including such things as the affects of Chryssalid infection and if it could be countered) - What about an ability to put a subject in stasis?

I mean what if you could put a unit that had been bitten by something vicious in stasis before it could begin transforming? It might be the only way to save a unit that you might've wanted to hang onto, but the difference would be your not talking just being wounded if at all, but the time it takes to find a counter.

i.e. It would just mean the unit would be out of action for potentially longer than any had been before, plus how ever much time it took for the unit to heal after a vaccine was found, researched and created.

#14 Sharp

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 08:50 AM

Chyrssalid antivenom is unfeasible. When a chyrss attacks it impales your soldier and implants an egg inside the said soldier, the soldier is injected with venom to turn it into a zombie. What you could do is give the soldier a pill or something to stop it from becoming a zombie so it just dies and a chyrssalid hatches out, or mabye a bio weapon which when hit on zombies it kills both them and the chyrssaliid egg inside.

#15 sir_schwick

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:43 AM

If your soldiers can survive and be healed from plasma to the chest, surely they can be treated for boney shaft through the chest. The anti-venom could also include an agent that kills the egg. Auto-injector is a lot faster than pill as well. Obviously such bio weapons could be designed to be used against the aliens.

Of course the issues with any biological weapons relate to containment. A good biological weapons usually has an appreciable population vector to prevent defense against it. This is probably why the aliens use limited bio-weapons such as Chryssalids. Further contamination into the environment plus mutations and such could destroy eco-systems in bad cases.

Maybe the use of bio-weapons against the aliens would begin seed markers where 'wierd growth would occur'. Over the first couple weeks an area(copule square miles, barely a dot on the screen) would be affected. At this point logarithmic growth would take over an the spot would continue to grow until it was noticeable. Given a full year a growth vector would naturally fill up to 100 km in any given direction, not including natural barriers or environment shifts. The risks of biological weapons designed for alien psiology would be massive and inadvertent terraforming. What happens to creatures in these zones, that would be an interesting discussion.

#16 Sharp

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 05:48 AM

If your soldiers can survive and be healed from plasma to the chest, surely they can be treated for boney shaft through the chest.


That is plasma to the chest with armour inbetween, this bony shaft penetrates the armour and skin and destroys most of the soldiers vital organs only leaving the heart lungs and brain intact to allow the deceased soldier to act as a zombie. That soldiers going to be pretty dead after a chyrs attack and I don't think the anti-venom would dissolve the egg and if it could would have a good chance of dissolving most of the soldiers internal organs not to mention all the stomach acid pouring out.

What does suprise me with zombies though is how they can penetrate powersuits with there itty bitty jaws. Chyrsalids are super strong so unless the egg actually hatches inside the zombie and simply uses the human carcass as an exoskeleton thus giving the "zombie" super-stregnth able to "zombify" another trooper. Infact I think my one makes perfect sense or otherwise how can other zombies make chyrsallids themselves. Thus any treatment would be completly ineffective as once a soldier is attacked by a chyrsalid it is forever lost.

#17 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 06:10 AM

If your soldiers can survive and be healed from plasma to the chest, surely they can be treated for boney shaft through the chest.

A plasma to the chest is only a really bad burn to the chest. A chryssalid attack is MORE than just a stab to the chest. The impregnated egg destroys the nervous system, poisons the brain, works the body into the ground, and rips apart DNA to completely transform the subject into a chryssalid. Now, I don't know about you, but no modern science can heal brain damage, replace an entire disfunct body, and there's definately no cure for DNA damage. It can heal burns, mend bones, and it can replace damaged tissue or organs (even if it's really ugly). It can't fix the damage a chrysallid attack does, even IF you had a way to reverse some effects on the field.
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#18 sir_schwick

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:37 AM

Anti-venom wouldn't dissolve the egg, it would prevent it from mutating and reproducing like most anti-bodies. Also, pre-treatments would provide additional anti-bodies your own immune system would use. Essentially the auto-injector keeps the injected egg from growing, releasing toxin, and causing damage. Your white-cells would then recognize whatever antigens egg cells have and consume them.

The wound would take a while to heal from, but if the aliens provide us clues about cloning, surely we can grow a few new organs for this guy who has a few punctured organs.

#19 Snakeman

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 12:26 PM

Cloning is a good idea for high level medical research, organs or entire soldier units. However doing the later I'd assume means your starting from scratch - experience wouldn't transfer to a copy, so a clone may only get a slightly less percentage of stats carried over than the original template.

If the idea was to have super soldiers in any case, I think the process should take a long while - maybe a severe time limit like 1 game year or just shy of 2 to make a small squad's worth. I have less of a problem with cloned organs research - could cut down drastically downtime in med facility.

Back to the Chryssalid egg thing. I'm not entirely sure I'd want there to be a counter to it. Its one of the things that makes them fearsome after all. Being left with just its melee attack with its claws in the case of a anti-zombie cure just makes them seem like skinny Reapers by that point. Course if they could fly, hop or crawl on any surface, that makes them slightly more cool too and might make up for a anti-zombie cure. All depends upon a trial run I'd guess in a beta to examine for tweaks to unit abilities.

On the issue of putting a unit in stasis I've been thinking a little more. What if it was just a tool for when you ran out of fatal wound heal charges to your medkits? Or for before the kits can become available, start with stasis pods for HWPs to attach and detach to itself and drop in your ship.

I've always thought medkits were pretty advanced ones for the old game, maybe pushing them back a little further in the tree is a possibility to think about. Stasis pods could be the predescessor to many of the things found in the smaller kit i.e. they would be the result of miniturization techniques. Either that or there should be a kit before any others probably containing less doses of what it can do or something.

10 of each dose type seems a good midrange standard, an early kit could be capped at 3-5 of each dose. Only the pod would have the most capability in which case again probably puts it back to being after kits in the tree. Again also probably techtree balancing act.

#20 GARAK

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:44 PM

You have a nearly infinite recruiting pool from every military on earth and you want to start cloning. Isn't that what the aliens do? I wouldn't use cloned soldiers on principal.

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:52 PM

I would, if my planet is what is at stake.

#22 gu35s

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 05:57 PM

Good point. Cloning a dead soldier and retain all the points would probably be better. Say by the end of turn a few good vets were killed and you want them back. So when transport craft got back to base there's an option of cloning/reviving them with some crazy amount. Say $250000 to clone one. But you need the corpse of the fallen ones, and if the corpse's evaporated, then the cloning option will not show. And after cloning, the memory and experience of the previous battle will be wiped out.

Although it's kind of sad when my soldiers got impregnated by chrysalid. Maybe xenocide can implement a way so that if the eggs have not hatched before end of battle, the scientists in the base will be able to extract the eggs. Then it will be a capture of live chrysalid points. Again the cost would be extravargant as well.

Edited by gu35s, 06 September 2006 - 05:58 PM.

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#23 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 06:36 PM

I can only see cloning being useful for one thing in X-Corps. That would be for medicine. More powerful cloning would offer better options for healing wounded soldiers after a mission. Why use someone else's liver, have a big recovery process, and take medicine for the rest of your life, when you can just order another one of your own livers? Cloning can offer replacement tissue for a lot of things, considering that it's already compatible by being your own DNA. I can see things like replacement fingers, muscles, even bones being possible for soldiers.

Or to make it simple, soldiers get more health on the field (they can recover from more serious and debilitating injuries), and faster recovery times.
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Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
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#24 sir_schwick

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:31 PM

This would be a possible but rather fantastic extension of Alien technology. I say that Cloning allow you advanced medical treatment back at base. Alien Entertainment may allow a system where someone could upload their conciousness temporarily. That system would be attached to soldiers so you could support them even in the case of catastrophic death. Once they are back, they go into a body that lets them live until they repair the body. Of course that would require an expensive facility and lots of money to do the operation.

#25 Snakeman

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 02:37 AM

You have a nearly infinite recruiting pool from every military on earth and you want to start cloning. Isn't that what the aliens do? I wouldn't use cloned soldiers on principal.


The only reason to embark on this level of cloning that the aliens do is first cause it sounds cool, but second, there'd have to be a good gameplay reason for doing so. Right now the only thing I can think of is taken from the hiring/scacking dynamic you mentioned.

If it had become more difficult to gain access because of uncooperative governments and that affecting the market (soldier availablity but also a shift from a monetary driven one to a trading one), that just leaves cloning and sporadic merc hiring from resistance groups imo.

Another reason for it could be that you can design units to use as bartering items besides weapons and equipment back to third parties to help them defend themselves behind the scenes. Getting involved in this before that though means having governments, if they're still standing beginning to hate you. I only like this idea because it introduces an ethical problem to gameplay one could choose to use or have nothing to do with.