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#51 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 01:05 PM

Yup, sizewise we are in perfect allignment. Personally, I don't like the idea of a fluid cockpit. It just seems odd to me. Also, I don't think it would be feasable.
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#52 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 09:04 PM

It might be feasable in something larger, where there are so many systems and subsystems to control, a cpu/brain would work best, but then you run the risk of people going crazy and not wanting to leave the mecha, which could lead to wars and a huge skewing of human evolution making them become more machine than man, etc....


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#53 Breunor

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 07:34 AM

Rather than having the gell cockpit filled to the brim, you could have a thick gell layer around the pilot. There would be gaps in the front to reach controls, something like a fancy game pad. The gell helps cushion against the nasty jarring you'd get otherwise. If the cockpit's breached due to HPs hitting 0, the gell would flow out and the pilot would die from the weapon hit rather than from losing the gell. The plasma blast goes through them both. The visual would be very similar to a dragoon however.

#54 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:15 PM

Yes, I like the idea of having the gel cushion the guy, not form a conductive surface to interface his brain with the machine.

Good idea.

Hmm, would the pilot have a hose in his mouth (for air)?

Anyway, I think a human equivelent to the sectopod would rock!
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#55 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 12:53 PM

Or you could have the cockpit flooded with H3O *basically liquid air* so they can breathe the liquid. That way, you might also be able to incorporate unconsciousness/wounds, instead of outright death.

#56 fux0r666

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 03:16 PM

H3O is an anion of water that is produced when an acidic solute is added to it. It's the H in pH... I don't think anyone would want to be immersed in ions... they would react with anything they came into contact with, being free radicals and all.

edit: H30 is a cation, not an anion.

Is it really hydronium (h3o) you're thinking of?

I think the purpose of having someone floating in gel would be to absorb shock and to promote a deprived sensory environment so the pilot could interact with the computer through a mental link more easily. I'm not sure about the shock absorbtion, but I like the idea of the deprived sensory environment. Since the pilot would be all bundled up in wires and sensors to read his nervous activity, having one more tube connected to his face to allow him to breathe wouldn't be inconvenient for the pilot.

Edited by fux0r666, 11 October 2003 - 08:28 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#57 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 06:10 PM

Welcome back Fux! :)

Well, I imagine that any mind linking between vehicles and troops would be more like the martix (how they are immersed in goop and have all sorts of funny connectors plugged into certain parts of their anatomy... :)
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#58 Rhyos Beoulve

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 12:33 PM

It might be Hydronium. Either way, it was the stuff used in Neon Genesis Evangelion and The Abyss.... only.. not spawned by the entrails of some alien god. o_O

#59 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 02:44 PM

Well, would we need to have a liquid immersion at all? couldn't we have a small armored command area where the person inside would control the mech via a joystick, similar to a first person shooter?
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#60 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 03:14 PM

I think seatbelts may be a better option than being surrounded by gel -_-

#61 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, I agree with you jim. Plus, seatbelts are cheap and effective comapred to any sort of gel (that would allow people to function and breathe.)
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#62 fux0r666

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 08:33 PM

I like the Gel idea as a sensory deprivation process. I think it fleshes out the meditive state needed to control a machine mentally. The reason why you would have to receed your conciousness into the machine is because you are not using your own arms in the mecha, you are using the arms of the machine. In the powered armour you're actually moving your own arms around and seeing through your own eyes.

That process would make the mecha seem more alien and special and remove it further from other xcom technology.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#63 demich

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 04:31 AM

Robocop: Player can put only a dead soldier into this mecha. Just like Fenix was put into a dragoon in starcraft :). Ofcourse this soldier should have psi skill=100 and strength=100 :>

Humapod :] - HWP can be an ordinary sectopod(properly modified ofcourse :) with human inside. I've always thinking about sectopods that they are bipedal walkers with intel....sectoid inside ;)
To reserch Humapod we need = psi tech + living sectopod + sectiod = humapod
To manufacture we need= living sectpod + willing soldier(psi skill=100 psi strength=100 bravery=100 morale=100)
Once put soldier(his brain actually ;) cannot be removed from humapod because changes that have been done to his brain can't be undone. During the battle there can be chance that soldier inside will go mad and will start to kill everything :).

of course there can be more humanitarian version

:devillaugh:

#64 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 07:44 AM

I still don't understand why the mech needs to be controled by a human's thoughts at all. Couldn't we use the same ai/remote control as in our hwps and hovertanks? Or at least, we could fit a whole human sitting down and controling it with a joy-stick.
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#65 mikker

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 03:38 PM

demich, are you nuts? :LOL: By the time you get 100 in strenght, you are back from mars.

Nah, lets just say he should have been trained to at least 20 strenght, and thereafter, he will be better in stats. I like the humopod idea, and it would be nice if it drove on psi power.

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 04:03 PM

demich, are you nuts?  :LOL: By the time you get 100 in strenght, you are back from mars.

Nah, lets just say he should have been trained to at least 20 strenght, and thereafter, he will be better in stats. I like the humopod idea, and it would be nice if it drove on psi power.

I think he was saying that reguardless of stats the new robot would have the 100 strength and psi skill.

#67 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 05:01 PM

I wouldn't like the idea of permanantly sacrificing a guy...
Id start to feel sorry for him. Its not like he is a rookie that I put some primed grenades on, he made a real sacrifice for his planet. :(
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#68 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 10:00 PM

Isn't it impossible to get a live Sectopod?

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#69 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 06:44 AM

Yes. But it doesn't have to be in xeno.
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#70 warhamster

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 04:41 PM

Still working on that gel thing. Don't worry. I don't feel a cockpit filled with goo is such a hot idea either.

You can give me feedback on that topic in the x-net forums. Find the interceptor threads.

Let's stick to the topic of HWP's here. A gatling laser is a nice thought, but it could be slightly unbalancing. Maybe the gatling cannon should be strictly AP rounds only. Giving a tank auto cannon capability is unfair too. Everything else is single shot like classic Xcom.

I like the idea of a piloted HWP. Maybe we can offer that as an option after you've researched sectopods, or the mechanized bipedal HWP chasis. Sort of the ultimate tank, except the pilot is still suseptible to mind attacks, but as a counterbalance to that is that the pilot's abilities grows. so in effect you have a tank with progressive capabilties.

#71 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 05:11 PM

I like that idea. It would remind me of the suits in starship troopers. :D
Besides, a gattling laser wouldn't be that unbalancing, I mean, the autocannon wasn't unbalanced when compared to the heavy cannon (except that it was better :D) Just make the gattling laser have less damage than the normal laser tank, and voila! You have a balanced gattling laser! :)

And about giving a tank autocannon capacity- why can't we give the rocket tank different rockets? And give the normal tank/cannon 3 types of rounds? Then the gattling tank won't seem so unbalanced.
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#72 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 05:17 PM

The more stuff is tweaked like this the more the balance shifts. Sure the tanks are now balanced but the role of the tank compared to a soldier swings in the tanks favour, and so in the humans favour rather than the aliens. Stuff like that would need a working battlescape to test which at the mo we don't have, so I wouldn't worry too much about trying to balance things just yet.

#73 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 05:20 PM

Here is a method of instant balance: Give sectopods built in blaster launchers! :devillaugh:
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#74 fux0r666

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 08:36 PM

Why should we stick to the topic of HWP's? I'm confused. I thought that this is a thread for anthropomorphic robots featuring a pilot.

What is the point of a gattling laser? If heat was a problem, surely it would be in the electrical components and not the lenses. Remember, the lasers in Xcom were automatic weapons too. In fact, so were the pistols. I figured the autoshots were just fast shots you could take until I saw one of the background pictures that suggested that an xcom agent was blasing away with a pistol like it was a mac10. That and the movie of the autocannon rocking and rolling. It seems that everything in that game is full auto but the cannons and rocket launchers.

I totally forgot about the gel filled cells in the matrix and evangelion. It's a shame that such good scifi is pop these days. Good ideas that are not cliche are hard to come by.

...but then again, this is a topic about giant robots.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#75 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 01:04 PM

Not Giant robots, Super Sized robots! ;)

J/K. The hwp mechas being discussed in this thread may be no smaller than 1 square, and no larger than 4 squares.
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#76 warhamster

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 02:03 PM

Uhm...

I got lost there. :blink:

In any case, Jim's right about balancing out weapons and HWP's. Keep them coming I guess. We'll figure out what works and what doesn't when we play test on a working battlescape.

#77 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 07:09 PM

Double post! :)
edit by j'ordos: not anymore :P

Anyway, I like the idea of a bipedal mechanized HWP or advanced power armor. I do not like the idea of any sort of mind gel or any thing like that.

New HWP weapon:

Plasma minigun (available only after research on all 3 plasma weapons)
Damage:100

Edited by j'ordos, 16 October 2003 - 07:29 PM.

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#78 DECEIVER_X

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 01:33 PM

Instead of having a whole dilemma about HWP's and soldier usefulness, why not make an HWP upgrade for the armor that Soldiers use? like a HWP Sniper, a HWP Grenadier or demolition...something like that.

#79 RustedSoul

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 01:54 AM

game balance and troop necessity are definatley the governing factors on this as stated before ^_^

so just for concept lets say it's an Armored Battlegear
it might work if you have a high damaging short rage weapon like a flamethrower. Accompanied with an inaccurate long range, rapid firing, low damaging plasma gattling/machinegun. Add extremely heavy armour but seriously increase movement cost
*(but if you had it the option to intergrate dif weps you may have to restrict the load out somehow)


Troops could effectivly use this "gear" as cover and rely on it to administer suppressing fire while they move in to clear out the buildings ect...


*edited Removed weapon specs... who wants to read it all ^_^

Movement 3-4m per turn...
Armor is improved by say 200% more then previous models of hwp
Cost to manufacture increased say 250% more then previous models of hwp
unit size is 2mx1m (WxL) or as large as 3mx2m (WxL)

sooo.. how about this kind of thing, i tried to compact most of your ideas into a single form, then i added some of my own ideas and this is the result...

P.S i like the idea of calling it Warhammster too

* (you could easily have it so that it is controlled by the users brain (cybernetic implants maybe) as fux0r666 suggested)

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Edited by RustedSoul, 19 October 2003 - 08:56 AM.


#80 A_dxman

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 06:36 PM

If you all so worried about game balance, why don’t we just say that we can only reproduce plasma weapons just like the aliens do. Instead of manufacturing plasma weapons we can only get them of dead aliens or pull them of UFO’s (but we CAN make the ammo for them) personally I never need to actually make plasma weapons except for the cannon cause I use laser through out the whole game. If I have plasma weapons I keep the laser rifle in the guys pack just incase.
But besides that, I put this in a thread about technology and it seemed to go down, well…accept ppl seemed to think the mech were going to happen. I think that you should give the player that option, make it research that doesn’t need to be done but its just cool. Like the chrisalid extra.

As you can see, it’s not truly a mech. but maybe it could be half way between mechs. And HWP like half way up that branch of the research tree.
It has a close combat stun thingy, laser cannon (or whatever the laser HWP has) and a cool looking knife that is just there because I needed to put something in the hand to make it look right. I thought it could be 2x2x2 cause its experimental technology and its going somewhere but its not there yet. After you finish the research, it could be 2 wide, 1 deep and 2 tall (maby)

but i dont know, i just me :hammer:

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#81 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 08:59 PM

I remember that guy! :)

Well, I think human designed (hybrid) plasma weapons would be cool.

No offence, but I don't really like that mech, I would like mine to have legs and look like it is made for war, not the anime convention. (not trying to be mean here, it is a good drawing, far better than I could ever do.:) )
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#82 A_dxman

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 06:23 PM

i like the idea of mechs. with legs better to, BUT modern mechs. dont work all to well, they walk TO slow and they break dawn alot, NASA doesnt want to use them incase a $4Bn robot breaks down on mars!!! If we have mechs with tracks first then figure out how to build ones with legs...
It might be cool but if you think they should have legs, then i'll draw one with legs.

PS its not that hard to draw, just takes time and a lot of drafts (usualy), just try and you'll eventualy produce something that looks good.

Edited by A_dxman, 23 November 2003 - 06:24 PM.


#83 tzuchan

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 10:17 AM

Just to get those creative juices flowing, here's CT for the Tarantula ! The first of three human mech designs that woke up in my head. Collect all three!

RESEARCH COMPLETED: WALKER TANK "TARANTULA"

HEAD OF RESEARCH PROJECT: [TZU-CHAN LIM]

SPECIFICATIONS:
WEIGHT : [850lbs]
FRONT ARMOR : [Armor value]
BACK ARMOR : [Armor value]
SIDE ARMOR : [Armor value]
BOTTOM ARMOR : [Armor value]
HARDPOINTS : 1 (Turret)
NOTES : Takes up four spaces in a transport

The Tarantula ROV walker tank was design to be a counter to the alien's [Sectopod]. As such, it carries heavier armor than the hovertank series of ROVs without sacrificing any of the firepower. Also, the Tarantula tank chassis is designed so that modular weapons can be swapped onto the turret when it is in the base. Unfortunately, despite the use of an semi-autonomous AI, the Tarantula tank has a lousy response time.

"Fluffie goes here!"
--Fluffer

The [Sectopod] that the agents retrieve was badly damage, but based on what was left of it, as well as the agent's after action reports, it is obvious that the [Sectopod] is the heaviest weapon in the alien's inventory, and we have nothing capable of fighting it one on one.

It boasts a 4 inch thick [alien alloy] armor that is virtually impenetratable any sort of weapons. The only weak point on this behemoth appears to be the optical sensor, which seems vulnerable to laser. Unfortunately, that is a small target and will be even harder to hit when the [Sectopod] is in motion. As such, we have no choice but to develop a heavy weapons platform that can at the very least, be capable of standing up to the [Sectopod] while support is on the way.

Initially, plans were made to beef up the [Hovertanks] series, but it proved unfeasible as the anti-grav emmiters could not take the strain and had a tendency of overloading spectaculary. In the end, in was decided that we would try to adapt what we learned from the [Sectopod] develop mechanized heavy weapons platform of our own, the Tarantula.

Due to the diffculties involved with balancing a war machine on two legs, we focused on developing a quadruped design. Also, despite the fact that both ROV tanks and the [Hovertanks] have preformed admirably in the field, they not cappable of being reequipped with different equipments to provide better support for our agents during firefights. As such, a modular turret system, on which a large variety of weapons could be mounted in the base before a mission.

However, all the armor and weapon systems come with a price. Despite the fact that the terrain affects the Tarantula much less than the ROV Tank series, it is considerably slower than the tanks on a firm flat surface.

"Fluffie no.2 goes here!"
--Fluffer 2

Notes:

Modular weapons:

Heavy Plasma:
50 shots, just enough damage to penetrate the [Sectopod]s' armor. Vapes everything else. 60% accuracy. Only aimed and snap shots.

Heavy Laser
100 shots, maybe 20% more damage than Laser ROV's cannon. otherwise similar stats.

Multiple Missle Verticle Launch System
4 shots, each shot launches four missles that have 50% of small rocket damage. Is launched straight up and returns to the map and impacts around the target randomly. Arty style weap ;-p
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#84 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 06:07 PM

I'd rather have the tarantula be two legged, but that is my inner mecha fan talking.
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#85 tzuchan

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:43 PM

Don't worry...
It's progressional, first four, then four but better weaps, then a heavily loaded two...

But I'm going on a holiday trip, so you'll just have to wait til I come back to see the rest...
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#86 tzuchan

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 09:47 AM

Alien counter to Tarantula:

RESEARCH COMPLETED: EXTERMINATOR

HEAD OF RESEARCH PROJECT: [TZU-CHAN LIM]

Species: N/A (MECHANICAL CONSTRUCT)

Classification: ???

Common Name: EXTERMINATOR

SPECIFICATIONS:
COST:_____________________ N/A
WEIGHT:___________________ [weight]
SIZE:______________________ [size]
DAMAGE TYPE:____________ N/A
TYPE:_____________________ ALIEN MECHA
POWER:___________________ N/A
ACCURACY:_______________ N/A
RANGE:___________________ N/A
FIRE RATE:________________ N/A
OTHER:___________________ N/A

Overview:
The Exterminator, at first glance, appears to be a modified version of the [Sectopod]. However, a detailed examination revealed that the Exterminator has a radically different design approach, and has the role of a "Anti-Mech" Hunter/Killer. As such, we suggest that commanders order thier troops to fall back upon confirmed sighting of an Exterminator, as a computer simulation of an encounter of a platoon of soldiers with four supporting ROV tanks against one such behemoth indicated that it is likely our agents would not survive such an encounter.

Detailed Report:
Initial visual reports suggested that the Exterminator may be an upgraded version of the [Sectopod] specifically designed to counter our own Tarantula, but upon studying the remains of the Exterminator, it was revealed that the Exterminator has a totally different design approach. Unlike the [Sectopod], the Exterminator has no external sensors. We suspect that it has gravitic sensors hidden inside the main body, and as such, has no external weaknesses. Also, it mounts two specially modified plasma cannons which appear to be specifically designed with penetrating armor in mind.

We suspect that the Exterminator is the alien's version of an Anti-Mech design, as it is capable of virtually shrugging of all kinds of weapon fire. However, in their attempt to design a war-machine with no weaknesses, the aliens apparently overlooked the possiblity of overheating. Admittedly, the use of [alien alloy]s in the construction of the Exterminator means that under normal circumstances, it is unlikely that temperatures within the Exterminator would ever reach critical levels. But by using incindinery weapons, we can heat up the Exterminator enough that the internal circuitry will be damaged enough that the Exterminator will shutdown.

Nevertheless, we recommend that if an Exterminator is spotted, that the agents should fallback and avoid entering the range of it's weapons as we do not have anything capable of withstanding a direct hit from one of it's cannons.
tzuchan - the last sane CTD writer
- Writer of the Anti-Astyanax Gun CT
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#87 Magstar

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 03:41 PM

What if: In order to operate one of these mecha suits, the soldier has to have relatively high psionic abilities. It makes sense, when you think about the fact that to make the thing significantly more effective than a bipedal tank you'd want to plug the soldier into the suit, allowing him to control its motions and weapons as efficiently as if it were his body. That's not too much of a detriment, but what if once plugged into the mecha, that soldier was useless for anything else? You wouldn't even be able to take him out of the mecha without causing long term psychological damages.

#88 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:05 PM

I love mechs. Most all of them. It would be great to have a mech for this game, but balance must be maintained, and I would be a tragedy if the Xcom spirit is not captured. I think the feel, the spirit of Xcom came more from the gameplay and such, not so much the tech stuff which was basicly primitive.

So, I do believe that Mechs can be added without hurting the "feel" of the game. It would add more fun to the research/manufacture, new and interesting tactics, and a more high tech atmosphere.

Xcom=Kirk Trek
Xenocided=Picard Trek

:huh?:

Now how to do it without messing up the balance and gameplay.

Here is what I like from reading the thread so far:

Compliment to HWP, different but similar

Not Uber, I like challenges, I want to see battles that make me feel vulnerable in power armor and MECHS!

And upgrade to power armor as opposed to a piloted vehicle, IE it is assinged in the armor screen to a soldier.

Things I dint care for:

Mind controled mech. I would sooner see a VERY HEAVY POWER ARMOR that mimics the wearer. IE power armor with 4 times the mass.

Cockpit style mech. I dont realy care for the Battletech mechs, just my preferance. I would much rather see a landmate (appleseed) or SF3D mech.



I am not much of a artist at this point and time, so I will post some links to some intersting power armor and mechs that are not that mainstream. Some of them would be awsome for inspiration and such.

I realy like the SF3D stuff, it is relatively realistic and it looks like it was ment for combat. Thoese guys LOOK heavy, although they are not a whole lot bigger then a normal power armored grunt. But, they could be made out of very dense aloys, IE Hammers Slammers blower tanks made from Iridium (more realisticly spent urainium would be more practical). The armor could be only a bit larger, but weigh 4 times as much due to the heavy metals and such. A chobam composite if you will.

Some balance issuse could be addresed by limiting the number and type of weapon a Mech can carry. IE it comes with built in weapons, IE 2 rapid fire laser rifles and a grenade launcher, and is limited to what is built into the system. It cant pick up other weapons and use the or something like that.

The huge amount of laser fire and grenades would be great for assault, but not that effective against heavy armored targets.

Something like that.

I will try to post some pictures of mechs that could be inspiration and fit the Xcom feel.

IE the rounded smooth power armor of the Xcom grunts, the shell like appearance.

#89 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:13 PM

Here is one that the would be a "driven" mech, IE the pilot legs are not mimiced by the machine. The arms could be changed to match easily. This thing could not hide behind cover like a power armor grunt, it would not fit in buildings as well, but it could take large steps and cover a lot of ground.

Drawbacks are the limbs, they could be vulnerable to attack. The pilot would be well protected in his shell, but the Mech could be disabled by shots to the legs.


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#90 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:21 PM

Here is a variation of that design, a bit more conventinal if you will.

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And next to the first.

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That is similar to the sketches from earlier in the topic.

#91 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:31 PM

Here is one for the multi leged fans. (NOT me!! :puke: )


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Cockpit looks a bit snug.

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#92 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:59 PM

Here is more to my personal favorite concpet for this Xcom/Xenocide mech/heavy power armor.

This is not supposed to the the technical text blurb, it is just a description of the concept as I see it.


This mech/VERY heavy power armor would be of the semi worn type. I would keep the legs as is, the mech woud mimic the pilot. I WOULD changed the arms. Fully robotic arms controled by the pilot from within the vehicle, ars at his side, bent 90 degrees. This would add a bulge and more bulk to the belly of the mech.

This mech would be mostly of earthly origins, with only the E 115 as the power source. The other materials it is made form would be of earth origin due to the need to conserve alien alloys or maybe as an earth based alternative that can be produced form domestic materials.

Obviously there are no windows and viewports, that is what the helmet is for. It has a full display of the outside world augmented with thermal capability. It would be like being surrouned by transparent armor.

The armor itself would be of mostly teran origin, very similar to the cobam armor of MBTs. The armor would be made of either tungstun or spent uranium outer shell with layers of ceramic, plastic, and NERA (non explosive reactive armor, essentialy a metal plate supported in a laywer of silcone rubber, it gives with the projective and absorbs some of the energy). No alien alloy here, just plain old HEAVY earth technology.

The rocket launcher is all wrong.

The arms would end in manipulators of some sort. I would beef them up some also, they look weak on that torso. The weapons would be built into the forarms and get power from the suit itself.

One arm would have a built in variable state laser array with 2 modes of fire. Mode one would be a rapid fire mode similar to a laser rifle, mode 2 would be a semi auto much higher damage mode similar to a laser cannon ( a bit more punch though).


The other would have a semi auto grenade luancher, useing metal storm technology. It could fire a variety of grenades up to a reasonable distance. The granaded could be HE, AP, IC, etc... Later on more destructive grenades could be used, but that would be the extent of the upgraded. IE an alien tech based grenade. The grenades would be on preloaded tubes, ala metal storm. The mech could exchange spent tubes for fresh ones.

As pictured there are some smoke grenade lauchers on the shoulders, so you can pop smoke and take cover then things get crazy.

I dont envision it being super fast, basicly as fast as a power armored grunt, but with more restrictions to certain types of terrain. It might have a harder time fitting into a tight building, IE it might have to crawl.

Speculative Stats:

Hight: 8 foot
Wieght: 1500-2000 pounds plus pilot

Frontal armor would be very heavy.
Side armor a bit less, back armor thinner, but with all of that machine between the driver and the back of the beast, he would still be relatively protected.

but if the rear was penetraited, it would be a mobility kill at least.

I realy like this concept of a VERY HEAVY POWER ARMOR/MECH.

Dont step on your buddies toes! But it should still fit in a transport.

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#93 Tuoppi

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:10 AM

Nice things you have there... Maybe weapons could be changed in bases like those of craft? These things would be devastating in open terrain firefights but relatively vulnerable and clumsy in close range. In tech tree the basic version could be instantly available like lasers? Plasma would still hurt these fairly badly, but still be able to take some direct hits. Later improved alien alloy -mechs would withstand more...

#94 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 12:38 PM

Nice things you have there... Maybe weapons could be changed in bases like those of craft? These things would be devastating in open terrain firefights but relatively vulnerable and clumsy in close range. In tech tree the basic version could be instantly available like lasers? Plasma would still hurt these fairly badly, but still be able to take some direct hits. Later improved alien alloy -mechs would withstand more...

The main reason I was thinking of the weapons being built in and non-changeable was for game balance. I was thinking that if you had armor with very strong armored protection, you might have the trade off of just medium firepower.

You can take more hits and damage yourself, but you have to expose yourself to enemy fire longer to bring you weapons to bear and destroy the target.

I have played completely through Xcom without useing a single plasma weapon besides the plasma beam on my firestorms.

Just laser rifles and grenades. It was a challenge, but it was fun and exciting.

You get to shoot a lot more and throw a lot of grenades! :rock:

With a HWP, you may have higher firepower and similar armor protection, but they cant do all of the things that a mech with a human pilot can do, perhaps?

How about a technical blurb for the last of the armors I posted above (my favorite concpet and model)? Just smoething simple to give it flavor.

Sorry if some of the dates and stuff are off from the guidlines, I havent had a chance to read all of the information and forums yet. This is just a rough concept description of the light mech concept I have been toying with.

Please point out any glaring mistakes in protocal and such that I might make, I dont want to break any rules for this sort of thing. I willl probly use some real world stuff here and there, but that can be easily changed for use if anything is put donw on some sort of format and in fear of copywrite stuff.

If you guys like it, would you maybe consider pointing me to the right direction for more project guidance, and maybe giving me some material to work on? Please dont get to harse on the grammer and spelling, this is pounded out fast and dirty on my laptop... :D

I guess what I am saying is I would like to work on Xenocide. The area I could be contribute in woudl be the story/text/etc... Not an artist (I know one though, I will see if he wants to help) or a programmer (I know a programmer also, I will see).

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IT-86 Tsar Ursa (King Bear) Infantry Tank

The IT-86 Tsar Ursa Infantry Tank is the culmination of decades of research by the former Soviet Union into a revolutionary new AFV (Armored Fighting Vehicle) concept. Research first begain into wearable AFVs for infantry soldiers of the Soviet Armies in the early 1960's. The aim of this research was to produce a compact new AFV that could protect an individual infantry man form the extream hazards (NBC Nuclear Biological Chemical) of the envisioned WWIII Nuclear Battlefield, but still enable the soldier to perform the majority of battlefield functions that only infantry can perform. The Tsar Ursa program was given a IT (Infantry Tank) designation given its nature as an offensive, high mobility afv intended to close with and destroy enemy infantry and to play a secondary role as support for friendly conventional AVFs. In the Tsar Ursa the Red Armies love for massed infantry wave attacks and over whealming concentraitions of Armor would be combined into a weapon the likes of which the NATO forces would have no counter measure for. Hidden in the fog of the Cold War, the story fo the Tsar Ursa has only been known to a select few in the West and is often only considered a myth in the former Soviet Union.

The development of the Tsar Ursa was put into the care of The Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB), a state-owned enterprise, which is now Ukraine's leading design authority for armoured fighting vehicles and used to play a key role in the development of armoured tracked vehicles in the former Soviet Union. KMDB sought to produce a compact IT AFV which would be second nature to operate, a neccesity for the often simple conscripts that formed the ranks of the Red Army. It was decided that the legs of the Tsar Ursa would be "worn" by the operator and mimic the operators movement. In that way the soldier would not have to be trained to "walk" the machine, it would be subconcious in operation.

It was decided however that the arms of the Tsar Ursa would be completely robotic. This was to asure the greatest possible strenght and durabilty to the arms of the IT, and to increase the structural room to mount weapons integeraly onto the arms of the IT.

The specifications set forth for the Infantry Tank program were very ambitious and would take until the early 1980's to bear fruit. Not until computing power, motive systems, and sensor technology had matured was the Infantry Tank even possible. Much of the form and function of the Infantry Tank AFV concept had been set forth early in the Tsar Ursa program, but the technology was lagging behind the researchers vision. In the late 1970,s and early 1980's the problems faceing the motive systems, computing power, and sensor technology had all be solved and refined to the point of being ready for production.

Only one piece of the puzzle remained, the power source for the very power hungry systems of the Tsar Ursa. Initial tests using high power density batteries had proven the concpet and that the Tsar Ursa could function in the field, but the endurace, often less then one hour on battery power alone, was far insufficient for actual combat situations. Internal combustion engines were also experimented with but found to be unsatisfactory for a number of reasons includeing heat and noise signiture, still limited endurance, and maintenace of the IT.

A great deal of effort was being poured into the development of a power source for the Tsar Ursa by KMDB and other design bureaus. Exploration into some of Nikola Tesla's more unconventional theories did show promis, but progress as slow, and the Soviet government was beginning to loose confidense that the Tsar Ursa would be a succesful program.

With assurances from Mykhaylo D. Borysyuk, Head of KMDB, that a suitable power source would soon be developed, the chassis of the Tsar Ursa was placed into production in 1986 and the official designation of IT-86 Tsar Ursa was adopted. The low volume production run of the IT-86 Tsar Ursa wold continue until the fall of the Soviet Union in December of 1991. The 5 year production run would result in 1298 IT-86 Tsar Ursas comeing off the production line, all of them without a suitable power source of sufficient endurace to warrant fielding of the weapon system. While the units are capable of short duration operation, they are not suitable for combat.

(Now here is where I get a bit lost, I havent found a Timeline for Xenocide, I guess I will draw from Xcom).

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the entire number of production IT-86's and their prototypes were put into long term storage in a number of warhouses deep in the Ukrain. The project was shielded form the Western world in fear of triggering a new arms race the the Russians were in no condition to run. With no money to fund further research into power systems for the Tsar Ursa, the IT-86 chassies would sit in moth ball storage an collect dust for the 40 years.

By the time the conflict with the alien terror forces began to develope in later decades, the IT-86 Tsar Ursa was a long ago buried and forgoten weapon system, still sitting in storage those many decades later. Only a few high ranking Red Army specialist know of the IT-86 and its story.

As Xcorp sought to find new ways to combat the alien threat, new thought was given to Cold War weapon programs, one such being the Tsar Ursa. With the capture and research into alien technologies, a suitable power source for the Tsar Ursas would finaly become a reality.

Useing technology borrowed form the Xcorp Powered Armor program, the Tsar Ursa would take its first steps into combat, and into history. Due to the great mass of the Tsar Ursa, 2 of the MAC PS-1 Power Armor power systems are need to power a single IT-86. Finaly the Tsar Ursa had the endurance it needed, not to wadge the WWIII war of nuclear Armagaedon it was intended for, but to wadge war againt a enemy from the stars.

IT-86 Tsar Ursa Specifications:

2100 pounds combat loaded.

8 feet tall fully erect.

Armor: Titainium alloy outer shell with composite/laminate under layers. Extensive use of NERA (None Explosive Reactive Armor) and ceramic provide protection from both projectile and energy weapons that pierce the outer skin. This armor, while much heavier then the newly discoverd Alien alloy armors, still offers a great deal of protection (more the twice the protection of conventional power armor) for the Tsar Ursa due to its great mass and layered construction.

Motive System: Combination of frictionless magnetic motors, linear actuaors, high output hydralics, and myomers.

Sensor suite: Composite Virtual Reality display with Thermal, low light, and digital enhancement. Can be equiped with radar systems of various typs and with Xcorp montion trackers.

Weapons systems: weapon mount hard point on each forarm and on the chassis above the shoulders. Additional smoke grenade dispernsers on the side of chassis torso. Targeting through HUD in VR composite display.

NBC protection: Full filtraition for NBC toxins, and rebreather capability for non O2 atmospheres.

Water Crossing: Using the rebreather capabilty, the Tsar Ursa can cross bodies of water by walking along the bottom. Car must be taked not to get bogged down or disoriented.

The father of the IT-86 Tsar Ursa.

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The KMDB is headed by Mykhaylo D. Borysyuk - General Designer of Armoured Vehicles and Artillery Systems, Head of KMDB, Lieutenant General, Ph.D., Hero of Ukraine.

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Gameplay wise I would envions this:

Once you have power armor, you could buy these from the Russians, IF you are on good terms with them or they have not made a pack with aliens.

After you buy them, you would have to make a E115 power plant for them be it a UFO power plant, 2 power armor power systems, or what have you.

Then you have a functional armor with a number of hard point to mount weapons on, but you should be limited to the weaons for gameplay balance.

I think there is a huge potential for great gameplay with a limited mech like this. It would have to be a alternative to HWPs, and I like the idea of the struggle of the soldier against the enemy, even if that soldier would sooner send in a HWP. :o

The reason that I gave it a "history" based more on reality is that I like to think that humans had some very inovative stuff all on their own. And after all we do, IE the power man suite form GE in the 1960s. The Tsar Ursa is a Soviet counterpart to the US power armor/suite programs of the past deacades. Wheater or not the realy had one, I have no idea.

Some more pictures form this great modeling sight for inspiration!!!

http://home.att.net/~mak3000/hm.html

That guy is one heck of a modler!!! I love his work and I realy dig SF3D kits, WOW!!!

And their disclaimers!!!

as of 2.5.2000

Disclaimer: The purpose of this site is not to profit form the hard work Kow Yokoyama, Kunitaka Imai, Hiroshi Ichimura has spent on this series. Any photos or sketches of the original SF3D or MaK 3000 series included in this site are property of Kow Yokoyama and friends, and are for your reference only.


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A Tsar Ursa Early prototype perhaps???

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A IT-86 Tsar Ursa in Uban Cammo???

#95 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 04:21 PM

I have been surfing the heck out of Sf3D models and other kick donkey sci fi kits.

Here are a few more very interesting ones for inspiration.

This one would make a nice sized mech, but would it fit in the transport?

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#96 awof

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 03:11 PM

Here's a thought..
Since the human can use the battlegear whenever assigned, the armoured battlegear has all the characteristics of the pilot (so you don't just assign random rookies to it..!!)
In addition to the base characteristics provided by the pilot, we could have the reaction times -20 becuase the battlegear will have lag time between the pilot and the battlegear itself prevents the pilot from being as perceptive as normal(ie the sound of the engine, blindspots due to the chasis..)
I think it would be realistic to incorporate into the game provided the programmers are up to it;) dimensions would be 2wide1deep1tall.. sort of like a crab. the cokpit design would be open, like the frameish feeling you get looking at the Nod buggy from C&C 1st one. Weapons would be fixed, ie battlegear laser cannon, battlegear power sword... or changeable (depending on whats going on with the hwp)
wrt power armour and hwp's, the armour of the battlegear is less that the hwp (they are HEAVYwp's after all..) reaction time is much better as it is human controlled, and the weapons should be just like the hwp's.
Reason to use battlegear over hwp, faster reaction time, upgradable (according to the stats of your soldier pilot). Reasons not to use, less armour than hwp, still prone to psi attacks, expensive due to the gyro's and stuff needed for a bipedal machine.
Exterior look..?? I was thinking of something like what Ripley used in aliens, slightly smaller, the exoskeleton destroyed in spiderman movie.. not ULTIMATE, but a complement to the normal soldiers...

#97 Adun_Toridas

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:27 PM

mmmm ok let`s say...

1. Why not giving them (instead of miniguns) HP akimbos (havin an improved accuracy but based on soldier`s one) ? I mean, like in matrix mechs...

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2. I think they should be dismountable... moreover, if they (the soldiers) have to enter into narrow spaces.

3. The same times of Ut`s and armor than hovertank... but no flying capacity and vulnerable to terrain features. I mean, the purpose of this mechs is... TO RECEIVE PUNISHMENT. Also reaction is just a little lesser of the soldier`s one.

What if: In order to operate one of these mecha suits, the soldier has to have relatively high psionic abilities. It makes sense, when you think about the fact that to make the thing significantly more effective than a bipedal tank you'd want to plug the soldier into the suit, allowing him to control its motions and weapons as efficiently as if it were his body. That's not too much of a detriment, but what if once plugged into the mecha, that soldier was useless for anything else? You wouldn't even be able to take him out of the mecha without causing long term psychological damages.


Agree with that. That`s a good point that makes me remid the macross YF21... oh those times...

#98 SpaceBoy2000

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 10:01 PM

Hmm, never noticed this topic before. Might be because it's a year old...but meh.

The problem I see with and legged vehicles is the fact that I'd much rather throw on even thicker armour on existing tracked HWPs than have a complex system of movement. What are the advantages to a walking system? The only one I can see is that you can probably make it smaller than a HWP, and have it be more nimble (nimble meaning it can turn faster or fit into small doors, in speed - wheels move faster than legs). Normal HWPs will probably move a lot faster, be able to have more and much thicker armour. There is a reason why legged robots in battlebots have a higher weight limit than wheeled robots - legged robots are heavier and more complex than wheeled robots. Not to mention there is a small tipping problem.

Secondly, isn't a power suit basically, well, a robot suit like in Starship Troopers (the book)? I mean, it needs an Elerium power source, so I'd assume it give you increased strength or speed or something. Walkers have the problem of sticking out like a sore thumb, since you'd stand out above everything and be a nice juicy target for many aliens to take potshots at. HWPs solve that problem by being shorter than humans. Power suits don't have that problem either because you're still roughly the same height. In a walker, you'd be standing/sitting/whatever above everyone else, thus, making you a nice target for everyone to shoot at. Thanks, but I'd much prefer a power suit.

#99 NKF

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:52 PM

I think it simply because a lot of people think giant robots are cool. I think that too, and will willingly sacrifice realism for them. However, there's a time and place for suspending realism, and I'm not sure what direction Xenocide's going.

I'm still particular to a modular heavy weapon platform system with a variety of propulsion choices. Wheeled, tracker, half track, hover, anti-grav, bipedal legs, spider legs, etc. This way you can have your heavy weapon platforms in humanoid mech, walking tank, mini flying tank or whatever configuration you want.

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Edited by NKF, 21 March 2006 - 11:57 PM.

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#100 fux0r666

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 12:29 AM

Well, I believe I mentioned this before, the ufos are controlled by thought in xcom, and the powered armour augments muscle strength.. You have the basic building blocks for a mech right there. I don't really see what sort of realism you're sacrificing.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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