Guest Jim69 Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hey Would it be possible to have a btn to get the soldier to peak around a corner? Say, he could peak around to look instead of just blindly running around, maybe 4 balance he couldn't fire when peaking? I don't think this has already been discussed, soz if it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 It would be a nice feature (just like throwing grenades around a corner ), but it just *might* be too unbalancing. I dunno, though, maybe if the aliens could do it as well, and know how and when to use it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rwn Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Why not add a special item for this? Like a mini short-range camera, or even a mirror? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revenant4 Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 I think if you thought of a way to have both sides (aliens and humans) be able to do this...the second way to implement this trick would be have it cost units so that if you use it you may not be able to shoot when your done...just like crouching was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Yeah, you could buy bayonets, bubblegum and broken mirrors. That way, if you gave your soldiers one of each you can make a round -the-corner mirror thing Saving Private Ryan stylee. Course, chewing the gum would take some TUs, as would building the thing. Perhaps it would be better to get the researchers to invent something and then the engineers to build it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Yeah, I thought it would unbalance a little, like I said b4 if u couldn't shoot and the aliens could then it would be good. Same kinda accuracy penalty as crouching to the opposing force, and any hit would be critical ( being a head shot ). I dunno bout throwing nades round a corner, it'd be too easy and unbalanced. I recon u should just be able to have a peak, maybe not see as far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well considering the game is going to take place in the near future, pistol cam technology will probably be such that you can just stick your arm out past the wall and look through the camera. I guess this could be researched as a human device, and maybe a balancing factor could be...only works with pistols, and costs 10% TU's? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well, its certainly possible, but its a v10.0+ idea. And as you all said balance would be a problem. I wonder if the AI would be good enough to use it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Give the aliens some inherent super-sensitive-detects-all-and-everywhere-in-every-condition detector, and voilà: balance. Unless it's going to be multiplayer, then it's down the drain with balance again... So there can be given a balancing counter to everything, but that could very well prove to be endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Unless you force the AI to consider peeking when it reaches every corner a high priority, it wouldn't use it. Even though the turn based action seems slow and calculated, each turn is actually 4 seconds of real time. So peeking around a corner would take a significant amount of TUs if you did use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 (edited) Sounds like a balance 2 me, but if it costs significant TU's then it would be a little useless. Say it costs the same amount of time as 3 footsteps and it would be fairly balanced IMO. Since I imagine that the aliens are gonna be programmed to remeber cover for different directions and head there if poss, peaking round corners would just be part of this, to check on known enemies to find positions. Edited July 17, 2003 by Jim69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 It's really already implemented, as you can step forward to get sight, then step back to remove yourself. If someone has reaction time, you're out of luck. Sort of like a person stading there at the ready, your head pops out and they take a shot at it. Like most arcade games really, where you try to shoot the targets that appear for a sec then disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Yeah that's the problem with sticking your head around that dark corner when you just know there's a big ugly Muton with plenty of TU's just waiting for Joe Soldier to take those final steps... You know what would be kinda neat is if there were like a tank/probe launcher, that would shoot some sort of probe that would reveal a reasonable sized portion of the map for a few rounds. This is horribly unbalanced, but it'd be nice. :happybanana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Sorta like that thing in Starcraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 (edited) Which do you mean from Starcraft? The Protoss Probes or the Terran ComSat? Maybe the aliens have the Zerg Queen's Parasite ability Then they can track where your parasited soldier is going and find out your base location... could be cured with a medikit. Or maybe you would WANT to let an alien escape in it's UFO, after shooting a transmitter under it's skin of course :: Edited July 17, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Starcraft had a radar scan for humans, the invisible scout for protoss, and the parasite for zerg IIRC. How about this: a remote camera unit that you throw like a grenade. It has several prongs sticking out of it to stop it from rolling. Imagine a caltrop or jack for the shape of it. In the center is a spherical mount with a free-floating camera unit. Once the unit is tossed, the camera rotates so that it is level with the ground. It then starts spinning within the mount, providing a camera view of the surrounding area. It could be destroyed, or picked up and tossed again. Your motion scanner could be modified to show the readout from it. For balance it wouldn't have a light source of its own, there would be too much glare for the camera. It could also have an infrared motion detector, so it only activates (and spins the camera in that direction) when something moves within range. Would be a great tool for v1+ if line of sight/fog of war is implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Will V1 not have LOS implemented or what did you mean with your previous post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 No, the original game had a sight limit of 16 squares/meters IIRC. Since this was part of the game balance, and removing that would require extensive play testing, it will remain for v1. Realistically, there would be no sight limit, since even 200 squares/meters is realistic. Therefore you have to figure out how to keep a few snipers in good positions from picking off anything on the map, how do you adjust accuracy based on range, etc. All that playtesting and recoding takes time, so that makes it v1+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I wasn't aware of the whole 16m thing in the original...interesting. Realistic LOS would be awesome, although you're right in that it would need a lot of balancing to be fair(Super-troopers with 89 accy are going to kill everything on the map in about three rounds if they can see everything). But the original already had a semi-realistic LOF...I mean, if someone standing at one end of the map could see an alien, someone else from the opposite end could pop him from downtown(how did he know where the alien was? radios? A little vague I think. For shame, Microprose, for shame...). :happybanana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 They relayed coordinates to each other through their headset (well they didn't have one but sshhhhh...) and were so good at math that they immediately could hit anything at first try, as long as it was given in Cartesian coordinates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Yeah, shared line of sight so you can shoot what you can't see is pretty weak. But if the soldier was still able to shoot at it, that would suggest that the alien was in his line of sight, but beyond that 16+- range. I can imagine the system they used: "HEY BOB! There's an alien out here!" "Really? OK. Am I aiming at it now?" "Uh, sure. Uh huh." BANG "OMFG Bob! You blew him to bits!" Use the Force, Bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I like the camara idea. To balance, you would need a motion detector to view it, and only 1 camara, for 1 motion detector. (it could be under the shot menu, "select camara", but could take like 10-20% time units to do it.)...If your guy has selected one, you can automaticly select the camara, and rotate (for obvius reasons, you cant move it, though)... You could even place the selector in an eye screen, so you do not need a detector, or would that me to unbalance it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Escariut Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 I cant remember the name of it.. but its the robot the military and swats use, basically it just has a camera and an arm (opening doors) kinda the same idea of the original, you run out of ammo with a tank and it turns into a scout, perhaps make this one smaller, the aliens can have something similiar but theirs can hurt you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Well, if they couldn't see an alien and someone else could they could have possibly have given a clock direction, I'm sure they would make out the shape. Could explain it I spose ( tho I doubt that is why it happens in UFO ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 I can imagine the system they used: "HEY BOB! There's an alien out here!" "Really? OK. Am I aiming at it now?" "Uh, sure. Uh huh." BANG " Bob! You blew him to bits!" :: Brue, that was the funniest damn thing I've heard all week(and I've heard some funny stuff). Especially when you consider that the soldier yelling to him probably can't even hear him...maybe there's a whole chain involved. "BOB SAID, 'AIM A LITTLE MORE TO THE LEFT! YOUR OTHER LEFT!'" Sniper says, "Is that good?" "LET ME ASK" Relay guy turns..."JUST A LITTLE HIGHER...NOW YOU'RE TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT AGAIN!" And so on for several hours until the sniper finally gets the exact positioning on the snakeman's head, and then the snakeman suddenly realizes that he can move, kills Bob and proceeds to enslave humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 The Snakeman notices this laser site dot moving around the room, then sees a human about 12 meters away yelling, "left, no wait! right, more right, higher, left, no your other left!" Obviously the second human drank some coffee before the battle, as the site is wiggling all around from a shaking gun hand... Snakeman pulls out a wiffle ball bat and walks over to the first soldier, starts thumping him on the head. "ressspect my authoritay!" it hisses, remembering the last South Park episode it watched (because as everyone knows, South Park is the highest rated show in this corner of the galaxy). The human panicks from the abuse, and shouts "fire now!" unfortunately, the laser site was reflecting off the human's shiny alien alloy helmet onto the snakeman the whole time (thus the light bouncing around so much), and the human drops into a puddle of goo from the heavy plasma blast. "Yummy! Noodlessss!" snakeman Bob hisses as he gobbles up the brainy treat splattered his way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Wow, this one belongs in the fan fiction section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Sorry, It's Friday morning, I'm bored and am going on little sleep...petty humor is all I have left. Damn SOCOM...why must you keep me up at night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Breunor starts ducking and dodging, as the big moderator hand 'o death starts reaching towards his ever more off topic posts... The easiest part about using a remote camera system is that it would pretty much behave just like the current electro flare, only during the day. I think for simplicity you give each soldier a helmet hud that can relay the info. Anything gets close enough to the sensor (IE line of sight), it appears in the battlescape. Making a new interface might be a bit much. After all, if you label the camera as a human unit in the code, the aliens will shoot them when they see them, and that helps balance it out. Although it would be funny to see an alien use a blaster bomb on your camera... I think we can plan on having a helmet hud already, as the soldiers will be using it to relay info back and forth with command. It's not something you'd see in battle, but can assume is there. So perhaps a seperate interface/hand unit might not be needed. Imagine tossing out several of these in a terror mission to watch your flanks, and then keeping track of who can see what, who has line of sight, etc. Personally, I'd like to see a fog of war system which is based on every soldier's view. When I select a guy, the fog of war adjusts to only what he can see. That would be the best system IMO. Then these sensor cameras could add their line of sight into his if he had a hand unit, or everyone can see it if it's a hud interface. That gives you another research tree to work on, upgrading systems to share some of the hud info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 (edited) , I'm going home in 20 mins YEAH!!!!!!!!!Hehe, bet that made u feel good. Back on topic ( I never thought ID be the one 2 say that ) Is shared sight gonna be kept, as I see that as a bug, others may disagree. Edit: , I try bringing it back on topic and brue beats me to it Edited July 18, 2003 by Jim69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 (edited) I like the shared sight, it has saved my officers from a chrissalid's horny pincers a few times, besides you can always say that once one guy sees a bug everybody's hud updates with that information. This information would probably be enough to target it. Besides, the hud could update its self so that it calcuates the direction the alien is in relation to the soldier. The hud could provide a crosshair that tells when the alien is in your sights too. And peeking aroung corners might not be too difficult to explain, just say that the soldier has a small camera probe attached to his helmet, then he can just snake it around a corner and voila! instant information. Edited July 18, 2003 by Cpl. Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Or if there was a command to use the helmet HUD, that cost TU's...almost calling in an airstrike, except all the guy really would be doing is calling in an alien's pos. Then w/o shared sight, a sniper might have a general idea where the alien is maybe marked by a small dotted circle or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Maybe by then "augmented reality" is perfectly working? It's not virtual reality, but basically every soldier has a HUD. And on that HUD all sorts of different info can be projected, like the position of aliens seen by other squad members. That still not really explains how they can hit them, but maybe an insert on the HUD showing the alien you're trying to aim for (as seen by an other squad member), and some sort of targetter of where you're aiming. That way it could be possible, but I'd say only with aimed shots, and a reduced accuracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Actually the augmented reality hud does a good job of explaining the "I can't see it but since my bud can, I'll shoot it" issue. Perhaps a small video camera is in the hud unit (transmitting data to command, etc), along with a high quality GPS. Currently a bulky GPS can get down to the centimeter in accuracy, so within 10-12 years it's safe to say they could be much smaller IMO. Add face recognition or some other biometric system within the command center computers, and here's what you get: Soldier A spots an enemy unit, helmet cam picks it up and the image/GPS data is sent to command. Systems there log it and ID it as hostile based off the physical profile, and tranmits the coordinates back to the soldiers. Each helmet's HUD uses a compass system to know where the soldier is looking, and when an enemy unit passes within the soldier's field of view (even when out of range), the HUD overlays the image into the proper position. This allows soldier B to take a shot even if he can't physically see the unit yet. So long as one soldier has line of sight, every soldier is made aware of threats this way. I only wish it could be set up so that each soldier was only aware of the 180 degree field of view in front of them. That would force you to keep flankers and rear guard. The original system doesn't really need it, since your sight range was only 16 meters anyway. You'd hear something behind you at that range most of the time. But once you can see 100 meters (and accuracy degradation limits your weapon range), you need to limit fog of war behind a soldier more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Someone from CTD should pick that up, would answer my post asking what the helmet HUD is 4, could be included in fluff text. Doesn't that mean that it will have 2 be on every armour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Related to this topic in that its going to use the helmetcam. Why don't we when there's an alien spotted use a small helmet cam to show the soldiers eye view of the target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 How hard is that gonna b 2 code? I would think not that hard since it is just changing POV, but not completly sure. There is one great big glaring problem. Why the heck would a helmet-cam not have NV capabilities? I only say this as it has been pretty much agreed not to use NVA's of any kind, or at least 2 the best of my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 I can think of one easy one for that Jim. I'm guessing the reciver would be one of those over the eye patches that drop down from the operatives helmet. Therefore any Night vision stuff would mess with the users vision in that one eye sees normal and one NV of another area. It could give the user motion sickness or mess with the visual processing Ever see that film about the Apache where he lead actor is doing training in a sealed cockpit and nearly crashes into a mountain, we could use a similar thing. IIRC Tommy Lee Jones was in it. I cant remember what it was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 "Fire Birds" by any chance? Not that I liked it but it was on TV not very long ago and I saw some snippets of it, could be with Tommy Lee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 IMO NV visors is one of those v1.0001 changes to make. Only for game balance is it not there really, tossing light sticks around does not make sense to me. So we could just give everything a green tint for night missions, or use heat sensing gear and show objects in that format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 Oh, ok, I thought the concesus was that NVA's weren't gonna be used. 4 Balance prehaps the range would still not be as good as full light, would weigh quite a bit and still wouln't be as good as alien vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Goat Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) Someone from CTD should pick that up, would answer my post asking what the helmet HUD is 4, could be included in fluff text. Doesn't that mean that it will have 2 be on every armour?Well, since you asked...here's what my X-net entry for the Xenocide Standard Issue Battle Dress Uniform has for combat communications. "An attached headset connects each Xenocide agent to their superiors, and has a pull down screen over the right eye with Shodan target aquisition and evaluation software. Gloves have an additional layer of foam rubber for grip, as well as a readout on the back of the left hand connected to pulse detection systems and linked up to a central unit, usually in the Skyranger, showing current time, life signs, and general mission-relevant data, including relative location of all other agents." BTW, I could easily add more specifics about "Shodan target aquisition," I'd just kindof assumed that would mean basically what you guys were talking about with "augmented reality" - a camera on my buddy picks up an alien, or said buddy points it out to his hardware in some way, and that target is instantly transferred to every other soldier. It's movement is tracked as long as it is in someone's line of sight, and anyone can shoot at it at any time. Note: I decided there wouldn't be helmets, as there weren't any in the original, and it looked more badass. I put an "oh sh!t" line in the entry explaining helmets away. However, this is still very much open to discussion. [EDIT] Hmmm...maybe I should have just given the standard, "this has been discussed." I don't know my protocol. Admins feel free to slaughter my entry. Edited July 21, 2003 by Fred the Goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) Shodan??? Were have I heard that before??? Have you been playing System Shock oh so long ago?? Make way for the improved edition then: Xerxes Oh and your explanation for the absence of helmets makes sense... as long as there's a UFO around. What about terror sites then? I mean, if those helmets have some nifty functions, why don't they use them when there's no UFO around? Maybe it's the aliens' psychic emanations that causes the discomfort? Edited July 21, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 That's a reasonable answer. T-sites mean leaders, so maybe the fear of psionics causes them to lose the helmets...That or they're just unfashionable in Rome in the springtime. :: BTW, system shock 2...one of my all-time favs(...i'm uploading some more cyber-netic modules...bzzzz...whrrrr....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Goat Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Oh, man, why did you have to start talking about system shock games? *sigh* Give me the system shock, x-com, and avp series and I am a happy man. And yes, I played system shock 1 oh so long ago - just rediscovered it, in fact. And Shodan was in the second one, too, and that old b!tch still beat the new, improved Xerxes. Ah, what a couple of horrifically involving games. Helmets, yeah....well I guess I was thinking that terror sites involve terror ships, although of course you never see 'em. The psi-reverberation idea is a good one. I suppose we can assume that it's the nature of the alien's psychic communication, rather than the power, that makes the helmets buzz and rattle? That way you still can't fight mutons with your helmet on. The only problem I see with it is why would psychic emanations be caught by metal? I think "power sources" causing vibration is a little more believable. What do you mean by fear of psionics? Interesting ideas, at any rate. The truth, of course is simply that they are unfashionable in Rome in the springtime - or anywhere else at any other time. Spiky hair is much cooler. Anyone else want to chime in one way or another on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) Maybe the way a helmet is shaped, and fits around the head? The psychic waves are caught by the helmet and due to its shape resonate inside, 1) generating a continuous stream of "noise" in the mind of the soldier, or2) dramatically reinforcing the power of those waves, thus rendering the soldiers almost defenseless against any form of pisonic attack. Edited July 21, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aosar Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Spiky hair is much cooler. That and humongous swords :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Goat Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Hmmm...I'm still not convinced. I could see the helmets being a problem with psi, if they focused (or vibrated in tune with, or whatever) psi signals, but I'm kinda at a loss as to how to explain that a hunk of metal DOES that. Incidentally, I've started up a discussion of this where it really ought to go, since it is, after all, a ufopedia entry for v1.0 and has nothing to do with peaking around corners. The matter isn't concluded on way or t'other by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now