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Issue #84- Basescape Gui


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#1 Deimos

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 06:54 PM

We're going to be needing the baseview up and running soon for inclusion in the alpha so we need to get the desing process underway. There has been some bouncing of ideas but we need to get it ready for inclusion into the alpha.

Edited by Vaaish, 25 April 2005 - 09:58 PM.


#2 Breunor

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 10:44 PM

Part of that process includes making models for various pieces to include in each facility: chairs, tables, PC consoles, etc. Please refer to the assetlist for the detailed description for each area, and let me know of any items you want to do. All we need are generic place holders at this point, we can go back and add details and more variety later.

#3 red knight

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 12:31 PM

That will be need anyways, but i am more interested in the graphic layout of the interface now...

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#4 Deimos

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 12:44 PM

Here's an early alpha sketch that FE originally posted ages ago just to get the old creative juices flowing.

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#5 mamutas

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 01:32 PM

I have posted some scribbles of base view in this thread in case you do not remember.

For the first milestone, I suggest to concentrate on the overall interface than on displaying the base layout. Here are the reasons for that:
- the earlier we see working control layout - the more we would have time to tweak it;
- there are no model for base facilities;
- engine is not finished yet, so it will take significant effort to finalize it now.

So, lets maybe discuss what control we would have and what would be effect on pressing on the button, etc. Anyone here is familiar with Cooper's Goal-Oriented Design? His idea is first to create set of views for each desired set of data. The views contain panes. Views and panes will not have much details, but general descriptions only. As soon as we all be happy with our set of views and panes, then we would put details (controls, functionality, colors, etc) in each pane. The idea is that the whole thing should be developed at once (since it is a single interface into bases info): from high level description to low level details. The benefit of this approach is that you will not do a double work on including controls in one panel and the later realising that they are needed on another panel too.

It may sounds as very formal process, but it is only up to us.

An alternative is to keep the same interface as original game had, so we would not need to do any design.

EDIT: I agree with RK. Control layout must go first.

Edited by mamutas, 05 June 2003 - 01:33 PM.

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#6 mamutas

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 01:42 PM

Hi folks. I came up with some ideas last night, so here they are for you judgement. I know everyone hates long posts. I will try to be short. However, I have history of people do not understanding me correctly, so please ask if you are not clear on something. Ok, here we go...

Lets think about what is the reason the player goes to the baseview. To see the layout of his facilities? No! To see how his base is doing: whether scientists doing some research, whether all soldiers are fed and healthy, whether there is space in the storage... Original game's baseview provided us with the layout, but to do other tasks additional buttons need to be pressed and additional dialogs are displayed. That is no good.

I see two alternative to the original implementation.

1) Replace base layout with sort of dashboard. Each section of the dashboard will correspond to some aspect of this base: research, manufacture, crafts, stores. Within section there will be a summary of current situation within this area. For example, 'Your stores are running out of space. You need more space.' or 'Your current defense rate is low. You need more defense facilities'. Next to message there will be controls allowing to perform area specific tasks: allocate research, equip craft. The base facilities layout will be just another area on the dashboard, which will be expand to full screen view upon activation.
2) Integrate actions into the image of facility. The look of the map will stay the same, except that on the right side there will be no usual buttons, but status window and facility specific buttons. The right area will be changed depending on currently selected facility. For example, player clicked on 'Laboratory'. Immediately on the right, the status window display current research there and their progress. Buttons will contain something like: 'Allocate new research', 'Hire scientists', 'Fire scientists', 'Transfer scientists', 'X.Net Database', 'Disassemble facility'. For selected general stores, the status window will display free space there and maybe some other info. Buttons will have 'Sell', 'Buy', 'Transfer', etc. It somehow reminds the RTS game, where you will get specific buttons displayed upon selection of one of your building.

I hope you got the idea. Thanks.
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#7 Cubik

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 02:04 PM

Hmm, I'm sorry, but I just can't see those ideas working, as they are.

The information ideas in idea 1 is great, it should be included with the Basescape somehow. Also, if I have got it right, the idea of replacing the entire baseview with something else entirely seems quite odd. Wouldn't that confuse people? And how about when you get your base attacked? You wouldn't have any idea of base layout. And the layout itself would then be rendered non-exsistent.... Please note that these remarks are based on my assumpsion that you want to remove the entire baseview. If I'm wrong, please tell me so.

The idea with clickable buildings may work, but you would need pop-ups or something else telling you which room are which, else it will be very confusing the first few times you use the Basescape.

#8 Breunor

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 04:20 PM

I think Mamutas would have the original overhead base view displayed in the build facility window, which you'd get to when clicking the button for it.

In the original game, there was no reason to click on a facility unless you were removing it. So why not add to the usefulness by having a status window pop up during mouse-overs of each facility? If you moved the mouse over one of the labs, the facility would glow and a status window tells you what the current research is and its percent done. If you clicked on the facility, a window comes up letting you adjust your research. You could also have a button well away from the action in that window which allows you to destroy the building. Clicking it would bring up a confirm alert to be safe. For facilities that don't have a corresponding window, like a radar, you'd just have the destroy facility button on the popup screen.

This would meet both needs-for data without lots of click-throughs, and also keeps the original look and ease of having one main screen for the base view.

#9 mamutas

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Posted 07 June 2003 - 01:47 PM

Thanks Breunor for explanation. That was exactly what I meant. I am not suggesting to remove baselayout completely in my first option, but rather make it a secondary choice.

As for my second option, that will work similar to what Breunor described in the second part of his post, except that I suggest to use a sort of informational window in the corner of the screen instead of popup. And the buttons will appear in some dedicated area (probably somewhere on the right of the screen). I will try to draw something for illustration.

The more I think about it, the more appealing for me is the second choice. I just cannot visualize a dashboard view, which would look cool. :) Maybe you can, then post a picture here. :)
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#10 Fred the Goat

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Posted 07 June 2003 - 09:46 PM

Wow, that second one sounds really good. What about a bar, much like the traditional health bar, that's just always visible over most facilities and shows their current capacity. We could have multicolored bars for labs and workshops to the following effect: I have a workshop with 45 workers, only 40 of which are working because shop space is at 48/50. The bar could be a green outline, most of which is filled in with green, 5 of which is yellow and two of which is clear. Current projects could come up on mouseover, and a full research window could be opened with a click. Storage could have three buttons on mouseover, one for buying/selling, one for transfer, and one for viewing space taken by each group of items. Those windows would prolly have to be full screen. Landing bays could show equipment/ammo/repair/fuel on mouseover. Containment could show aliens held, but you'd still have to transfer/sell/research them in the appropriate screens. Or maybe you could do it there. I dunno. Radar could open up a miniature geoscape on mouseover, showing range. Defense could show stats of the weapon, and maybe current defense vs. suggested defense. Airlocks could show people/items on their way to the base. Or maybe that could be a fourth button for storage. At any rate, airlocks could be clicked for a base overview. All the normal buttons should still be on the side, IMO. Did I miss anything?

#11 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 08 June 2003 - 01:58 AM

I think we need to try some layouts out to see if the space will devide up nicely.
hmmmmm
should work.

#12 Deimos

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 12:17 AM

One baseview using as many resuable elements as I can. Which means a slight alteration in the way the menus work.

The greenscreen area is going to be replaced by icons that are available to use for building. The main area is for the isometric view of the base modules (which Vaaish is working on and I'll have soem real placeholder art to put in there soon (thanks V). The other stuff is pretty much self explanatory.

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#13 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 01:51 AM

I'm happy to give Vaaish a hand with those facilities pieces.

#14 Guus

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 02:42 AM

What's Vaaish working on? The Isometric view itself, or the modules design? If Vaaish is doing the same stuff as I am, I'll stop immediately - so far, I didn't invest that much time in the code anyway.

In my spare time, I've been fiddling with the isometric view was well (no menu bar, no mouse function whatsoever). I'll attach the code and executable below.

be warned! I'm told (but unable to verify) that this program will crash your operating system if you're running window 98. Make sure you saved everything important before you run it. (I haven't got the slightest idea why it should crash, but you never know...)

The program itself is based on NeHe's opengl-tutorials. Basically, I took the framework from lesson 2 and worked from there.

It shows you a 8x8 grid, in a 45 degrees angle. If you use the cursor keys, you move around (left, right, back, forward). F1 and F2 zoom, while F3 and F4 rotate. F11 will reset the viewpoint, and ESC or ESCAPE will quit the program.

I tried to have the grid rotate around whatever object that's currently in the centre of the screen, instead of the centre of the grid. Look in the code for future adjustments.

Let me know what you think, and, if it crashes your computer, what operating system you're using - along with some useful details as videocard, amount of memory, processor-chipset and stuff like that.

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#15 Vaaish

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 03:26 AM

I am currently working on module designs. trying to get enough completed so Deimos can have something for baseview.

Right now I have the barracks and lift finished. the barracks probably won't have many props in it because most of the stuff is modeled into the walls for bunks and food prep facilities.

The lift is qute low poly (around 350-500) but I expect most of the stuff in that room to be props added later.

Neither is textured since I'm not the greatest texture artist and so that whoever does them can layout the texture however he/she chooses. it's too early for me right now but I'll go ahead and post pics tomorrow.

what remains for the default base is the hanger, storage, lab, radar, and shop. If all goes as planned I'm probably going to do the lab and radar tomorrow.

I did find that when I brought my armor model into the avenger which was scaled to one grid square = 1 meter. that the person didn't fit right. I propose that instead of the 1 meter cube we change to a 2 meter cube since that is basically the size of the people.

second thing all single grid square modules are being built at 24x24 meters to accommodate a 1 meter wide connection between each of the modules.

to fit correctly the hanger will have to be 49x49 meters
summary:

Scale recommendations:

Base unit: 2x2 meter square

Baseview and battlescape grid: 25 meter square

Single grid unit structures (labs, storage, alien containment etc.): to correctly fit in the grid should be 24 meters square.

Single story should be 4 meters tall with a 2 meter space between stories minimum if between levels in separate rooms.

Larger structures such as the hanger will be 50 meters square but to allow room for the 1 meter connection passageway between structures should be a maximum of 49 meters square.

In order to accommodate the avenger the hanger will be 3 stories or 12 meters tall.

Other structures such as radar and defense systems may extend to two or three stories.

#16 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 06:16 AM

There's a thread about measurements in the geoview section. Shall we say its been -very- throughly discussed. :D

Did you get the scale reference block and facilities descriptions from Breunor? (1 x 1 x 2.5m) All the building stuff done so far is based on this scale.

You can send me the finished models to texture. I'll PM you my address.

#17 Breunor

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 06:44 AM

Yeah, everything should be based around the 1 meter square, with 2.5 meters being the height for 1 story of open space. That equates roughly to 8'4" high, close to standard ceiling height in the US. 1 meter is also agreed on as a standard stride (for excited soldiers moving quickly in combat mind you), so these dimensions sounded like the best to use. The block with those dimensions is linked at the top of the assetlist. I think 1 square/grid is going to vary depending on how you have the 3D app's grid settings arranged. So use that block to scale the model appropriately. I'd also use it for making the facilities, as we can then make the battlescape props for use in the baseview as well.

Edit: Updated the address for the new server, 6/30/2003.

Edited by Breunor, 30 June 2003 - 06:19 AM.


#18 mamutas

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 08:13 AM

at Breunor's proposed UI:

I liked the overall design.

Do we need those static buttons on the right at all? I was thinking, that there will be no static buttons, but only those displayed which are specific to selected facility. For example, if you want modify research - then you select Labarotory. Buttons like 'Start new research' or 'Modify research' will appear on the right.

Another suggestion would be to have a little globe which would display the location of the base. But it is probably one of the latest additions.

at Fred the Goat ideas:

Great ideas. However, I do not think that the information should be presented in the tooltip, but rather in the status window on the right. The reason is that you might have 3 workshops. The game will not give you option to specify what workshop is occupied and for how many spaces. The game will present the information for all workshops. That is the information in the status window will be the same whichever workshop you choose.
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#19 GreatGold

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 08:17 AM

Hey All -

Just a quick comment on module designs for the facilities. JohnEvans is doing some write-ups at the moment, with some really good stuff involving the facilities. A lot of little details will be included in the final draft. We of the CTD are really hoping that you graphics people will humor us by including the details we write up in the final base-view designs.

For instance, in the Access Lift alone we discussed having a small armary, security "kiosk (if thats the word)" and a number of scanning devices for security, etc. Now I don't know if the Base-View is zoomable, but if it is, then all these things should probably be modelled in.

Just to give you guys an idea of the detail we're getting into, I think you will definately be able to use our documents as design outlines...of course, making it look good is all up to you :D .

I think we'll have the second draft of the Access Lift up in a day or two, hopefully.

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#20 Vaaish

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 12:36 PM

There's a thread about measurements in the geoview section. Shall we say its been -very- throughly discussed. :D

Did you get the scale reference block and facilities descriptions from Breunor? (1 x 1 x 2.5m) All the building stuff done so far is based on this scale.

You can send me the finished models to texture. I'll PM you my address.

ok.

I know about hte block but Maya refuses to import it.

I set up the grid to duplicate the mesurements though.; however upon using the mesurements to create the avenger and the same for the power armors, I pulled them both into the same scene and found that the avenger wasn't big enough to properly fit the units required.

So I taled to deimos about the whole thing as I was working and to fix the scale I have to increase the avenger to 43 meters in length and about 12 meters in height. I decided that increasing the size of the avenger was more acceptable than crunching the soldiers down to pygmies.

Now The reason I chose a 2 meter cube was that was the smallest size that the soldier fit nicely into the alloted space layout for the avenger. (see attached pic).

Finally when I started building all the structures for the baseview if I had built them to the exact dementions neither the soldier nor the avenger would have fit correctly. so to accommodate we scaled the size up to 25x25 meters for the grid. however if an object goes exactally to the exge of the square it is in there is no space for the doors between the rooms. This is where the reduction to 24x24 meters for the one cell modules and the hanger to 49x49. with these diemtntions everything SHOULD fit correctly and scale right.

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#21 Deimos

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 09:07 PM

I spoke with Vaaish on this and even though I agree that the 1x1x2.5 is a good size. We are going to get into trouble with it for the models. As Vaaish mentions above :)

The problem is that the 1x1x2.5 block was settled before we had any models to import into each other so I think it might be a good idea to have a import a few of the models into a scene and see how they interact together. :)

#22 Guest_blaa_*

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 09:13 PM

2.5m I assume is the Z axis? Where does that come from?

#23 Vaaish

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 09:21 PM

I think the average ceiling height

#24 mamutas

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 10:11 PM

Guys, guys! Lets keep this thread on baseview discussion. This is very important to nail down ASAP.

Not that I am saying that measurements are not important. :)
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#25 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 12:31 AM

Good point Mamutas.

I like the idea of context sensitive data and buttons. I think it would make it more an interaction with the base and the people in it rather than with the bases information systems, if you see what I mean. (so more involvement than Mamutas' first option).

But there a couple of things that need thinking about

Pro's: It's great to have that info available on the "root" screen. But is there enough space? Only enough for overview? IIRC the original screens many of them were "undercrowded". What is the worst case most crowded facilities panel?

What we could do is this: Mouse over gives "high level" info and a right click pops up a window for more detail and interaction? (that would tie in with the proposed battlescape controls).

That could leave LMB for drag view, MMB for rotate, MMBwheel for zoom.

We would still need buttons for "pure info" systems like the graphs and finances.

Is that obvious enough? we could always pop up a "hints" window first time into the screen.

#26 Breunor

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 01:15 PM

2.5 meters is a nice semi-round number, and very close to 100", which is very close to the average 8 foot ceiling height. If the soldiers don't fit in the 1 meter squares, then either we scale everything else around them, or we just reduce the size of the soldier models. I suggest we reduce the 2 or 3 soldiers models we have to fit into a 40" by 40" square, rather than take the other 30-40 models and scale it to fit them.

The block model is just so everybody is relatively scaled to each other. Attached is the block with the armor model. The left shows how it imported, you'll notice the left arm going through the block, the model is scaled to be about 20 feet tall. After scaling down to about 7' tall, you can see the model fits into the 2x2 grid, which is 40" square. Of course, the arms won't be sticking out.

To make this more relevant for the baseview, make sure to refer to the block scale when making the facilities, and if the hangar needs to be larger for the size of the craft, we'll know by getting both the hangar and the avenger to the same scale and tossing the plane into the facility. Perhaps the craft can sit at a 45 degree angle within the hangar? So long as there's 1 meter between the plane and the wall / other props, it should be fine. At 43 meters long, you'd have enough clearence with the 49 meter square hangar, and other props can be positioned near the corners where the dead space will be. Perhaps making a 43 meter diameter circle in the middle of the hangar would be good. The description is that it's a lift that will raise the plane to the surface for take-off, so that would simulate the big plate, and would remind you to not put anything overlapping it.

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#27 mamutas

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 08:14 PM

Talking about the baseview...

I think we should avoid any popup menus on right click. It looks like windows interface for me. It is fine for windows, but i do not see it fit into the game. I would prefer to have a direct action on each click or double click. For example: left click - select the facility, left double click - open default action dialog for this type of facility, right click - ...umm, I do not know. I can think about one in Battlescape, but not in the baseview.

Regarding the status window. We can choose how much status info to show. Also, we can choose whether it will show global messages like "You are running low on storage space", which will not change based on facility selected. Or it could be facility specific message: "You engineer has produced 5 out of 6 Laser Cannons".

The 'facility-sensitive' display of the buttons is 'a must' in my opinion.
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#28 Breunor

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 01:21 PM

Sorry about the measurement issue, but it's really relevant to the dimensions of the facilities and layout that Vaaish is working on. We're discussing it via PM now.

For mouse over info, what about using something like the javascript effect on this page? It's the mouseover effect for the images on the right. It could contain the following info:

LABORATORY
Number of Labs: X
Lab Space in Use: X of Y (Y being total slots)
Research in Progress: Plasma Pistol, 60%
Power Suit, 10%

As you move the mouse, the popup follows the pointer, until you go to another facility or move to the menu system. You could use either single or double left click to open that facility's window, and right click could be used for destroying the facility, with a confirm button of course.

Edited by Breunor, 13 June 2003 - 01:22 PM.


#29 Fred the Goat

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:13 PM

I definitely think there should be both popups, one way or another, on the facilities and a list of buttons on the right. I envision people simply not wanting to screw around with clicking on facilities, and being irritated if there isn't a different interface. Breunor's setup sounds good. One addition - I think the popup following the pointer is annoying in that other page, and it would be annoying in the baseview. The window should just stick to the facility.

#30 red knight

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 05:25 PM

Well I dont know if I am tuned on the discussion, the idea from Mamutas has its pros and cons... As a tradeoff (cause I see that mamutas in right on some things) we could do it this way:

You have the standard way when you have to manipulate certain facility (From the GUI position it gives the idea of being in the facility) instead, we can add more to that idea like as a background image rendered from the inside of the facility (several hi res renders can do the trick).... And have important information as the type of information given by Breunor... In that way the important information (a summary) is presented all times and manipulation of the facility is done in the traditional way...

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#31 Guest_blaa_*

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 05:42 PM

Maybe we should use 3m instead since that is VERY close to 10 ft (includes 8 feet to the false ceiling and 2 ft of ductwork. In building it's never 8 ft from floor to floor.

On the otherhand I really could care less though.

#32 mamutas

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 11:28 AM

RK:

I am not quite sure I understand your proposal. Could you explain please?

Breunor:

I agree with Fred The Goat, those moving tooltips looks annoying. I imagined something more like tooltips in WC3: they are always in one place whenever you will move your mouse over that object. As an addition we can add a 'local' tooltip, which will be present at the position of the mouse after it was idle for a while, but it will go away as soon as mouse moves.
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#33 red knight

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 04:38 PM

Mamutas: Just use the original way of doing things and show contextual information (you cant manipulate the facilies from the baseview)...

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#34 mamutas

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 08:24 AM

Here are couple of ideas my mind genereated yesterday:

idea 1
Baseview interface.
Left area is occupied by base layout with base list, information pane and a very few very common buttons (like biuld new facility, ufapaedia, etc.) on the right.
When you click once on the facility it become selected and information pane is filled with appropriate info (duh!). For example for the labaratory it will show free space, project names and statuses. When you double-click on the facility the appropriate dialog will be shown which allow you to issue orders: start new research, hire/fire scientists, etc.
Ideas on the dialog's bring up: your whole view will just zoom in to facility, showing its interior with great details. The halftrasparent dialog will be displayed on top.

idea 2
Do not have a separate living quarter facility, but incorporate it into other existing facilities.
That is remove living quarters. Move scientists to live in laboratory, engineers - in workshop, soldiers - in barracks. You will have personnel near to its working place, which will make more sense to me than scientists living with soldiers.
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#35 Deimos

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 11:43 AM

Seeing as this is up on the concept area of the xenocide site I'd better put it up here too.

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#36 Vaaish

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 01:59 PM

idea 2
Do not have a separate living quarter facility, but incorporate it into other existing facilities.
That is remove living quarters. Move scientists to live in laboratory, engineers - in workshop, soldiers - in barracks. You will have personnel near to its working place, which will make more sense to me than scientists living with soldiers.

Since I'm modeling the base assets right now I gues I should jump in and sa that it is already hard enough to get a believable module created inside the existing space constraints w/o having to automatically cut out a chunk of the module for living quarters. Having a separate living quareters module eases up some of the space problems.

#37 Deimos

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 06:49 PM

I guess the other problem of having distributed sleeping quarters is that it'll throw the balance out somewhat. We know that sleeping quarters work as they are both in a monetary sense and a buliding sense, so it seems a little like changing a formula that already works. Maybe a +v1 thing and stick with what we're sure that works for now.

#38 GreatGold

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 07:39 PM

Hey -

In that pick, I felt something was missing. And then it hit me, there are no hallways. Is it suppsed to be like this, or were they just left out for now?

I say this, because it doesnt make sense to walk all the way through two random rooms, like a General Stores and Small Radar for example, just to get to the lab. NO real base would EVER be set up like that.

See the pic below for an example. So will this be modified?

Gold

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#39 Vaaish

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 07:54 PM

I'm guessing not unless we expand the grid to allow for them. right now this is set up so that it fits into the correct grid for baseseview

#40 GreatGold

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 07:57 PM

Hey -

I don't want to step on toes, but if its possible, I think it REALLY should be looked into. It just makes very little sense to me.

Perhaps I'm just looking at it from the wrong perspective? Could someone make the opposite argument, that having hallways would be bad?

Gold
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#41 Deimos

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 08:13 PM

For V1.0 we're sticking with what we know works. The prefabricated base units work and we don't have to test how it would affect the balance of the game. :)

#42 Vaaish

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 08:23 PM

Hey -

I don't want to step on toes, but if its possible, I think it REALLY should be looked into.  It just makes very little sense to me.

Perhaps I'm just looking at it from the wrong perspective?  Could someone make the opposite argument, that having hallways would be bad?

Gold



I was just posting what I thought we were going for in 1.0, I didnt mean to come across blunt.

Edited by Vaaish, 23 June 2003 - 08:34 PM.


#43 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 12:57 AM

hallways would change the defence characteristics of a base a lot. which isn't necessarily a bad thing. once we have our starting point (v1) we will be able to try this sort of stuff out relatively easily.

The baseview looks really sweet with the modules in place. I can't wait to see it all lit and textured.

#44 Fatal_Error

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 04:01 AM

to vaaish and deimos: THAT KICKS ARSE!!! I MEAN THAT'S BEYOUND REAL not to mention my imagination!! :D :D

though deimos one suggestion: the funding bar, could u maybe make the left edge square or smth coz to me it just looks out of place :)

anyways :rock: :master: :rock: :master:

EDIT: oh and deimos that funding bar thing goes for geoscape and other screens too

Edited by Fatal_Error, 24 June 2003 - 04:02 AM.

THE BEST SIG EVER!!!

#45 LordT

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 04:38 AM

I'm feeling like I'm repeating myself but in the original there WERE "hallways"

Each module look somewhat like this and then all the "stuff" was on the second floor, only reachable by the stairs in that module.

____ ____
|S | | S| :)
Ż ŻŻ Ż ŻŻ
_ __ _ __
|S | | S|
ŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻ

S = stairs
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#46 Breunor

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 06:23 AM

Does anyone have a screenshot of the design LordT's mentioning? I don't remember it, but if it was there for base defenses we should be able to add stairs to each area and set them up as he's describing. I'm only remembering thick doorways between each facility though. Could these stairs have been in xcom 2 or 3?

#47 Micah

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 09:51 AM

Ask and ye shall receive:

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#48 GreatGold

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 09:57 AM

Hey -

I never realized how off the scale was till just now. Wow. I think the hallway issue may not even BE and issue if scale is correct. I think I'll better be able to make an informed decision on this when I see a textured facility and a soldier model in it.

Gold
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#49 LordT

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 01:04 PM

Just so you don't think I'm just whining :)

I'm just saying how it WAS, not how it should be. I think it will be really fun running around in those modules seen here!

Though I have ONE thing I can't stop thinking about... If I were to use a Blaster Bomb against all the "stuff" like the hyperwave decoder, would there be any consequences of that after the battle?

Edited by LordT, 25 June 2003 - 02:17 AM.

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#50 GreatGold

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 02:09 PM

Hey -

I think that there should be, but I have a feeling this would be v1.0+. But, if you mess your base up, or the aliens do, then it makes their raids a little more meaningful. I mean, usually, unless they have a complete victory, there is no real consaquence.

I also think the same should happen with an alien base raid. If you damage things, they shouldn't work until fixed. Therefore reducing the effectiveness of that base. This would actually allow for strategic raids!

I mean, lets say your getting overwhelmed by Mutons in South Africa. But you also know that a full on raid will really screw your troops up, and you don't want to risk it. So, you plan a strategic raid, bring someheavy explosives.. and do the quick in and out routine.

Now that base is down to 65% efficiency, lets say, and the Muton threat in that area is more maneagable for the time being.

Of course, something like this could REALLY mess up game balance, so we would have to test it to death.

But, I think its worth looking at.

Thanks,
Gold

ps - LordT, I don't think your whining. I mean, if after I see the textured version I think to myself that there must be hallways...then you'll all see whining! :wink:
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Rule #33:
Celatid venom is a paralytic nerve toxin, not 'happy juice".

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Posted Image