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Ufo's Weapons Loadout


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#1 kelfka

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 12:01 PM

This topic is to suggest new weapons on the alien craft's.

One idea is that they could have some sort of parasite.
A bloby thing that generate an EM field.
Afther it's fired on your craft, it starts messing with the craft engines and systems and force your craft to abandon the pursuit and land to get rit of it.
Your craft will have a small amount of time to land but not necessarily in a base.

#2 nixnihil

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 05:13 AM

This idea has to do with your craft, but is in the battlescape instead of geoscape. Why not give your landing craft support weapons? Say, laser turrets on your avenger to make sure aliens don't go in there when all your other guys are out searching.

or maybe a pulse generator that (on the very first turn, and that turn only) temporarily stuns all enemy units within a certain distance from you landing radius. That would help you clear your landing area.

Both those innovations would have to be researched. You wouldn't start off with that of course. I think those would be great in terror missions when cyberdisks just start blowing you away before you even leave your craft's exit ramp!

#3 Puasonen

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:11 AM

Turrets have been discussed, but not to x-com crafts. We were talking about putting them to ufos. About the stun device, it sounds cool but if we do it, the game gets unbalanced. Maybe add one to ufos too so when you are entering ufo, you suddenly get stunned :devillaugh: Could be a little annoying ^_^
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#4 UnknownWarrior

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 01:34 PM

Auto Plasma Cannon:
Fires as fast as the normal cannon and is as powerful as the plama cannon, but you have to be very close to your target

Edited by UnknownWarrior, 06 July 2004 - 07:42 AM.

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#5 fux0r666

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 04:18 AM

I think the UFO's should have those. Hehe.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#6 UnknownWarrior

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 07:38 AM

I think the UFO's should have those.  Hehe.

I wanted the UFOs to have them, it would at least give the UFOs a chance when you have an [Avenger] or two
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#7 Aleksander Storm

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 08:00 PM

Plasma Cannon:
Fires as fast as the normal cannon and is as powerful as the plama cannon, but you have to be very close to your target

Just curious what a 'plama' cannon is, and how that 's' makes all the difference between the weapon your suggesting, and the usual Plasma Cannon from the original X-COM game?

I kid..

I think you are talking about making some sort of auto-fire plasma cannon.. (Still not sure why they called that gun from X-COM the 'Cannon' when it was clearly something along the lines of a Chaingun or Machine Gun. Cannons are, quite frankly, large ballistic weapons that fire slowly (usually; if not, its because of multiple barrels, small calibers, or a combination of both. And then they have a word like Auto- or Gatling tagged on to emphasize that they fire fast) and have recoil that I'd rather not have on a fighter. The recoil on the massive 30mm Gatling Cannon on the A-10 is pretty bad, but its deadly for the short bursts its designed to fire (pilots have to be tricky about how long they hold down that trigger, or they deplete their ammo in no time). That's probably what would really be used on UFO Interception craft as the short-ranged armament. Could probably shred alien armor something fierce).

(The Almighty GAU-8 Avenger, a real aircraft cannon. Gotta love the FAS site)

Probably designate it either as an Auto-Plasma or a Gatling Plasma (though, if it doesn't have a rotary barrel setup, it shouldn't use the name of Mr. Gatling).

Edited by Aleksander Storm, 05 July 2004 - 08:05 PM.


#8 AbonZel

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 01:05 AM

Wasn't the gatling gun more of a hand cranked weapon? Perhaps Plasma Vulcan... though after looking at a site, they still called non-hand cranked weapons Gatling guns...

Perhaps Repeating Plasma or Plasma Repeater... those sound more like infantry weapons, though...

How would aliens or X Com personnel deal with the craft based anti personnel weapons? Would they destroy them like any other enemy unit? Perhaps special EMP weapons could also be used to take them out? How often could the weapons fire? What are the weapons' accuracy?

Craft based weapons are huge and dangerous things to deal with... the first posts remind me of the dropships in BattleTech... they had weapons on them, as well, and the bigger ones like the Overlord (the Egg of Doom) could take on lances of Mechs sometimes... or at least, so I've heard and the weapons loadout looked like it could back it up... in other words, one could very well lose entire squads fighting the ship alone... I guess you would have to make it not quite bad, though ^_^

#9 Tuoppi

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 09:47 AM

That's probably what would really be used on UFO Interception craft as the short-ranged armament. Could probably shred alien armor something fierce).


Too bad that it cannot be placed on an interceptor... GAU-8 absolutely needs a craft like warthog to carry it around, actually the A-10 was designed around that gun. :(

About 20mm gatling is more useful as internal interceptor weapon, maybe 25mm if in external pod under fuselage. No-one stops us from using DU though... Or plasma. :D

Hey, if crafts have some turrets for assistance in ground combat, they should be operable only when craft has landed without being shot down. And they could be flanked as they have limited arc of fire. Maybe sneak from side and throw a 'nade?

#10 fux0r666

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 11:20 AM

Gatling refers to multibarrelled, rotary guns of a self loading nature.

Cannons are not necessarily slow to fire, nor do they necessarily have a low muzzle velocity. Anything that fire cased ammunition over .50 caliber (12.7mm) that is not a shotgun or grenade launcher could be considered a cannon.

The avenger cannon is an impressive weapon but it does not necessarily need the a10 to fire it. Most Russian fighter jets use 25 or 30mm cannons whereas american fighter jets tend to use 20mm. All you need is an aircraft that is sufficiently large to carry it. The a10 was deisgned as an aircraft that would embody the optimum flight and survivability characteristics to employ a cannon and other stores in the close air support role. The CAP concept stresses high maneouverability/survivability/weapon load with an emphasis taken off high speed/stealth/ceiling. You have to get in close to bomb or to get in cannon strikes. The Russian su-15 is quite similar in this regard and is capable of carrying a comparable weapons load (but is much faster).

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#11 Aleksander Storm

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 11:10 PM

Cannons are not necessarily slow to fire, nor do they necessarily have a low muzzle velocity.  Anything that fire cased ammunition over .50 caliber (12.7mm) that is not a shotgun or grenade launcher could be considered a cannon.

I don't think I specified that cannons were.. I was mostly speaking of the 'stereotype' of something that's only known as 'Cannon' .. Note that I did mention the GAU-8 as a Gatling Cannon, and it has a vicious firing speed and decent muzzle velocity. The fact that it is called a Gatling Cannon gives the impression that it's a large, multibarreled weapon that can deal out serious damage very rapidly.

Then there's the Hand Cannon, commonly .50 caliber, and, as the name suggests, hand-held. They could be used one-handed, but it is most assuredly not recommended, as the kick-back would tear your arm off.

The sidearms used by UNSC personnel in the world behind Halo, for instance, are of the Hand Cannon class, utilizing 12.7mm shells that can tear holes in unarmored foes. These are somewhat similar to the impressive .50 caliber pistols that are available today, such as Magnum Research's Desert Eagle Mark XIX .50AE. The massive size of these shells, however, makes them less-than-effective against armored targets, which often require thin projectiles to pierce (H&K's MP7 and G11 (which use 4.7mm munitions), as well as FN's SS190 series weapons systems (the SS190 being a 5.7mm projectile), like the Five-seveN pistol and P90 series SMG, are designed as armor-piercing personal weapons).

The M2A3 and M3A3 Bradley, an IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) and CFV (Cavalry Fighting Vehicle), respectively, utilize the M242 25mm "Bushmaster" Chain Gun, at times called a cannon.. (In fact, the designation 'chain-gun' is the more common term for similar-caliber, single-barrel weapons which make use of the same or similar chain-driven firing and loading mechanism.. Like the main turret-mounted gun on the AH-64 Apache, the M230, a 30mm chain-gun).

Aircraft often use weapons of the chain-gun class, but sometimes utilize gatling-class weapons of similar caliber (as the F-22 Raptor apparently does, according to the FAS site's F-22 entry, as well as the A-10, of course).
(The F-22's Gatling is the M61 series Vulcan 20mm Gatling gun)

More often than not, the designation 'Cannon', by itself or only with a caliber rating, brings to mind a very large-caliber (about 70 and up) weapon system that is often manually-loaded (but sometimes is auto-loading), and has an impressive range and recoil due to how much energy goes into firing the shell down the barrel at the speeds necessary for it to reach out to distant targets. Main Battle Tanks and naval warships use these weapons as their primary armament.

Edit: Oh, and as for the more personal rapid-fire weapons.. The common designation for the large, multi-barreled weapons systems, similar to the 'Auto-Cannon' of X-COM fame, is 'Minigun' .. and they rarely have calibers over the standard 7.62mm NATO. Any larger would make for a ridiculous weapon system, as the 7.62mm M134 is already a massive piece of hardware that would rarely be used as a single-man armament (It's mostly a vehicle-mounted weapon).

In fact, you would probably be more likely to see an XM214, the 5.56mm variant of the M134, used on an actual soldier, instead. Actually, this is the weapon that was used by the 'heavy weapons' operative of the team that was in the Predator movie.

That .50 cal mostrosity you guys are proposing to use wouldn't be hand-operable by any human, no matter how strong they are (would barely take a second of burst-fire, and they'd be flat on their @$$). However, such large-scale weapons could be braced to the ground and then fired, but that was not how the 'Auto-Cannon' was used..

Edited by Aleksander Storm, 06 July 2004 - 11:36 PM.


#12 fux0r666

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 01:17 AM

Whether or not they would be hand operable would depend on their loading. The .50 ae, from what I've heard, isn't that difficult to fire. Some sources cite you need 'gorilla wrists' to fire it. I would tend to believe a more moderate tale if it's kickback characteristics.

Chaingun usually refers to something that is not a gatling gun as in the armament of the ah-64

Where are we suggesting a .50 caliber rifle? This is a thread about aircraft armament.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#13 AbonZel

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 01:40 AM

Heh, now that I have more of an understanding on how very little I know about real world fire arms...

Once again on the topic of alien craft based anti-personnel weapons... here's a bunch of questions to think about...

How many should the crafts have? Perhaps very small craft have none or a gun that is about as powerful as a standard plasma rifle? The rest of the craft have exponentially growing numbers of turrets... like the small craft have one, medium have two, large have four, and very large have eight (or something along those lines)?

How powerful? Should they be the same as personnel based weapons, slightly stronger, or much stronger?

Should there only be one weapon on each turret? Perhaps instead of one plasma cannon on a turret, there could be two plasma rifles (turret equivelant weapons, of course)?

Should there be a limit on size? Should a small craft be able to carry some of the bigger turrets or should just be limited to the smaller and perhaps medium guns?

Where should they be placed? On the side? On the top? Under certain parts of the ship? Perhaps some turrets could even be on the inside of the ship solely designed to prevent intruders?

Should the turrets be automated or need aliens to use them through computer terminals? On the other hand, if X Com personnel get to these terminals, could they use the turrets or at least shut them off?

For an example of all these questions... think of a very large craft (one that looks more like a Human craft for simplicities sake) having eight turrets, one large turret on the top that fires the missiles that can have waypoints set (sorry, don't remember the name), two medium turrets on the underside of the wings that have four plasma pistol equivelant weapons (so it can shoot many shots, designed for light infantry), two medium turrets on the top of the wings that fire two plasma rifle equivelant weapons (designed for more armored infantry), one medium turret under the nose of the craft that carries one plasma cannon equivelant weapon, another heavy turret on the top of the craft but near the rear that holds two plasma cannon equivelant weapons (designed as the main defense against heavy infantry and tanks), and one medium turret somewhere inside of the front door that has a plasma rifle and two plasma pistol equivelant weapons. Perhaps instead of the turrets on the underside of the wings, those turrets could be placed on the side of the craft.

Remember, that is just an example. I was using a Human craft for the example and it would probably have weight issues, but it was just an example.

#14 fux0r666

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 03:30 AM

This topic would probably do better in the UFO's thread in the labs.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#15 Tuoppi

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 09:53 AM

The avenger cannon is an impressive weapon but it does not necessarily need the a10 to fire it. Most Russian fighter jets use 25 or 30mm cannons whereas american fighter jets tend to use 20mm. All you need is an aircraft that is sufficiently large to carry it.

True... You get anything to fly with big enough engine. However all interceptors use smaller weapons than GAU-8. Although russians do have 30mm in some of theirs, these still have projectile weight of around one third of GAU-8. Some similar size/power weapons are mounted on other aircraft, but they are all designed for assaulting ground targets, and result in decreased performance in interceptor role.

In fact, you would probably be more likely to see an XM214, the 5.56mm variant of the M134, used on an actual soldier, instead. Actually, this is the weapon that was used by the 'heavy weapons' operative of the team that was in the Predator movie.

ok... Here is some info on this thing and similars. Maybe with power armor and some other pieces of ubertechnology in powering and materials it is carriable by single soldier. Heavier calibers than .308 is pure fantasy even with them, and smaller calibers than .50 are virtually useless against armor (although i would like to have a manly minigun). Soldier weapons are discussed elsewhere though.

However this thing and similars would suit the role of craft turrets more than well. As crafts and UFO:s need to be aerodynamical they are mostly internal and only small sealable hole is seen from outside, or they are external and fold in when airborne. As weight counts (a lot) in aircrafts they are fairly light small and few. In human crafts maybe a single turret just inside landing ramp which can fire in the landing zone when ramp is opened. UFO:s are not as weight sensitive as they are bigger and more powerful, they may have more/heavier weapons but still not too much. For every time a gun is needed, it has been carried around for looooong time and all the time its weight has eaten away precious elerium... IMO large scout should have one light turret, supply/harvest/abduction two light or one heavy and terror/battleship four light or two heavy. Or something similar, you got my line in this.

My Light Turrets have power of about heavy plasma and Heavy Turrets are strictly one hit-kill thingies with some plasma-splash area damage.

IŽd really like to see something to help clear the landing zone, as initial deployment is the most dangerous part of assault, and in real combat every possible thing is done to make it easier.

#16 fux0r666

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 05:27 PM

Miniguns are ONLY vehicle mounted weapons. I dare say that they are probably only aircraft mounted, because the principal they work on is accuracy by volume- and the only craft that move fast enough to warrant a rate of fire up to 10,000 rpm are aircraft.

The ufo turretted weapons are another issue. They could be mounted on barbettes. Alternatively, since they are alien craft and are surrounded by some kind of field, one could say that aerodynamics aren't at issue. Another approach would be an extremely high tech like on star trek the next generation. Whenever they fired the phasers, they seemed to emenate from a circle on the disc portion of the ship, but not from any sort of gun. You could say that the plasma is directed around a doughnut track on the surface of the ufo with electric fields and then ejected into its proper trajectory by some magical kind of electromagnetic bottle projector.

Edited by fux0r666, 07 July 2004 - 05:28 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#17 Paladin

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 11:25 AM

I like the idea of trekkie-like phasers, and getting some weapons on alein crafts would be nice...
However, it would be a serious balance issue, so I would recommend having as few as possible of these, like tuoppi suggested.
Having one or two on XCOM crafts would balance things a lot, and would make a landed craft a lot mor difficult to attack than the sitting ducks they are now... These guns should at least have limited fire arcs, or be relatively easy to destroy/disable.

A kind of repulsor/paralysing defense system inside UFOs would be a neat trick, provided teh XCOM bases also have the same turrets/blastdoors/special defenses... :D
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