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Art- Issue #26 -standardissue Battledress Uniform


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#1 Shinzon

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Posted 28 December 2004 - 12:05 PM

Greetings just joined yesterday...

ive been told to pos any progress on the t shirt armour... im not sure if this is the right place though...

This was under the T-shirt armour... looks like hes wearing a balistic helment and a kevlar vest... so im just adding some details... This render will be for the X-net and i belive the original itslef will be enough for battlescape...

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Edited by Vaaish, 22 April 2005 - 07:45 AM.


#2 red knight

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Posted 28 December 2004 - 12:15 PM

@Vaaish: anyone tryied to animate that model? something looks a little rare.

@Shinzon: When you have something skinned, I would put the "In progress" tag in the issue tracker. Post in here so I know.

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#3 Vaaish

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Posted 28 December 2004 - 02:00 PM

no but when I originally created it I added enough detail to the joints that there shouldn't be an issue.

What happened here is I think a combination of perspective and either making the model a subdivision surface or smoothing the mesh which caused the appendages to thin considerably.

EDIT: image of the original low poly version.

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Edited by Vaaish, 28 December 2004 - 02:04 PM.


#4 Shinzon

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 11:22 AM

yup i do belive this is the wrong topic... :Brickwall: can someone moove it to art please?

I've added a couple of things and made the eyes... should i add some more pokets on the vest? since everyone seemed to agree on the Sg1 look and feel... Or should i just start texturing this?

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#5 Vaaish

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 12:33 PM

I'd go ahead and add the harness and pockets to the vest as well and then tweak it a bit to line up more with the low poly one in terms of limb size and facial structure, you might even want to work on adding more detail to the creases in the BDU pants and sleaves too.

#6 red knight

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 03:11 PM

Add as detail as you need. Then start texturing. Looking good so far.

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#7 Shinzon

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:02 PM

Update

made pokets in pants

fixed up eyes... (stuff mostly that cant be seen and is it just me or does she look cross eyed?)

Made a proper mouth- no teeth yet...

Wrinkels where the pants meet the boot

Re-scaled arms so dont look flimsy and small

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#8 guyver6

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:15 PM

Great, I love it, maybe too slicky it appears, but texture it now, and rig it up, and that's all what's needed for now.

Good job

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#9 Denevive

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:52 PM

It looks like there is a line down the center of her face/nose. Have you snap/welded that area together?
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#10 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 06:06 PM

Yes, I noticed that too. Is that intentional?

#11 Shinzon

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 06:36 PM

its just the line caused by the smoothing; its not welded together since im not yet sure if im not done... should i add pokets or something on the vest or something?

or should i just start texturing it? then ill weld the two halfs together

#12 Vaaish

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 07:47 PM

what you have now is definaely starting to take shape, good job.

Instead of adding pockets to the vest add a combat harness over the vest.

the other issues I have is the folds where the boots meet the pants and the legs themselves, if we can beef up the legs and arms some more it will help the overall look of the model.

Side note: are those pockets on the thighs finished yet... they don't really look like they are part of the pants or strapped on right now.

#13 fux0r666

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 10:06 PM

I would just like to interject my observation of a couple of anatomical flaws- this is not to say that the rest of your work on the model is not stellar.

The hands and hips look wrong. I think the wrists and legs are too thin and there doesn't seem to be any definition in the knee joints.

Edited by fux0r666, 30 December 2004 - 10:07 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#14 Shinzon

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 02:03 PM

Update

Added elbow and knee pads, touched up some pokets, edited some places

Hands still and always look awkward... i have no idea why... :Tantrum:


what do you mean by a combat harnes around the vest?

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#15 Vaaish

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 02:23 PM

Can you post a top view of teh hands that can help us figuer out how to fix them up a bit better.

here are some examples of combat harnesses

http://www.zahal.org/gear/p4.htm -good but w/o most of te pouces on the waist.

also look up some reference images of kneepads, the ones you have right now look like they are towels tied around the knee. and please remove those pockets on the upper leg, they don't fit the model or the uniform.

#16 Shinzon

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Posted 31 December 2004 - 04:40 PM

here is the top render of the arm

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#17 Shinzon

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 12:43 PM

Is this what you had in mind?

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#18 Vaaish

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 02:15 PM

yeah thats more like it, make the straps thinner on that and the pads so it looks more like those flat nylon straps instead of planks.

#19 j'ordos

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 04:03 PM

I wonder, are the central vertices of the nose properly lined up? It looks to me like both halves overlap each other there slightly. Or is that just the line between the 2 halves?
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#20 Shinzon

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 04:46 PM

thats the line between the two halfs... since im working only on 1 half to make it symetrical and lessen the work load.

#21 fux0r666

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 06:16 PM

The hands look awkward because they are anatomically incorrect. Do you have a digital camera? you should take some pics or find some pics of hands from the top and front and put them in the background of your viewports.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#22 j'ordos

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 06:39 PM

here you go :

(I just took this, but the lighting conditions weren't ideal, so if you want it taken anew, or in another position, just say the magic word :) )

edit: downscaled the pic a little :blush1:
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Edited by j'ordos, 01 January 2005 - 06:55 PM.

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#23 Shinzon

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 08:21 PM

ah thanks j'ordos :D now to make your hand look a bit more femenin :P

Update:

Made a completly new combat harness... the armor looks bulky now like armor!!

not sure if the "no pocket" thing is fine but i think it looks alright...


Ok i will re touch up the pads and make them look bit more "real"

Edit*

Ignore the bad walky talky on the shoulder... dont know why i left it in... :unsure:

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Edited by Shinzon, 01 January 2005 - 08:22 PM.


#24 Vaaish

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 12:03 AM

looking better. I'd advise agaisnt having the pockets on the harness open like they are now.

Do you still have that site I posted eariler with the reference for the combat harness. go back there and take a look at it as you model. the main issues I'm having wit the harness is the straps, they are way too bulky and if actually used would keep sliding off the soldeiers shoulder. thats why then need to be thin straps tightened in place.

#25 Breunor

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 07:15 AM

You can rely on the texture for some of the details you're currently modeling too. As to the hands, I suggest a mitten style with indents between the fingers, since you'll either see the soldier with hands at the sides or holding a weapon. That might help resolve the realism issue and also reduce poly count for in game. Just a suggestion.

#26 Shinzon

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 06:36 PM

:sorry: with the christmas breake over and the exam week not far away ive been making progress slower then i want to... After the exams my productivity should increase greatly... :D
Update

-Thanks j'ordos for the hand it really helped, it looks a bit better now

-Finished the pokets and reduced the strap size (they still might be a bit too fat)

-Tryied editing the pad so it doesnt look like a towel (still looks kindof wierd)

-Oh and I removed the pockets...

-Im planning to do some ressearch and add wrinkels in the arms and more into the legs, if thats ok with everyone

Is this to everyones expectations? does anything need to be changed? if not ill weld the thing together and start to unrawp it for texturing.

by the way this is the female marine model :pink:

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Edited by Shinzon, 04 January 2005 - 06:46 PM.


#27 Vaaish

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 07:17 PM

looking better and better. I think that those straps are still a kittke too fat but they are alot closer now.

Also, look up some reference for those knee and arm pads, they still look a little too contrived and not built in.

Over all good progress.

#28 mikker

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 06:21 AM

Looks good - although that mirror line in the middle is far too obvious.

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#29 Shinzon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 07:58 PM

yeah i know about the mirror line, dont worry too much about it, once im done ill seal it up and trust me you wont even know where the 2 halfs are...

Update:

-Completly Re-modeled the pads using the refrence found here:http://www.prolineskates.com/acatalog/harb321k.jpg

-Tweaked other things like the positioning of the pads ( they were too low)



The pokets and the buttons right now are diffrent objects from the main body, im thinking of attaching them to the body and welding them on, after im done this the amount they can be changed will drop, should i procced?


For the smaller details like zippers and such im planning to use bump mapping to create them...

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#30 Vaaish

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:16 PM

yeah i know about the mirror line, dont worry too much about it, once im done ill seal it up and trust me you wont even know where the 2 halfs are...

Update:

-Completly Re-modeled the pads using the refrence found here:http://www.prolineskates.com/acatalog/harb321k.jpg

-Tweaked other things like the positioning of the pads ( they were too low)



The pokets and the buttons right now are diffrent objects from the main body, im thinking of attaching them to the body and welding them on, after im done this the amount they can be changed will drop, should i procced?


For the smaller details like zippers and such im planning to use bump mapping to create them...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Looks much better on the pads, good job.
The more I think about it I don't think we should have the elbow pads, it makes it look too much like a skater and less like a soldier. I think it'll be best to pull the pads off the elbows and just put wrinkle details in the texture map.

I would keep all the objects separate until right before you start texturing.

right now I one of the next issues on the model I see are with how the pant legs attach to the boot, there usually isn't that much material to make that deep of folds.

and finally how the eyes look on the model, they appear a little unnatural in their shape and construction of the eyelid.

Overall great job detailing the model I think your coming into the home stretch.

Edited by Vaaish, 05 January 2005 - 10:20 PM.


#31 Shinzon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:27 PM

Maan Vaaish you are a hawk... i was going to fix the eyelids on the next update but you caught me red handed :P


and i couldnt stop laughing when you said she started to look like a skater... sorry Vaaish i couldnt stop myslef...

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Edited by Shinzon, 05 January 2005 - 11:28 PM.


#32 Shinzon

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:21 PM

Update

-Removed the elbow pads
-reduced the wrinkles (right now im thinking of totaly removing them and replacing them with a bump map)

-fixed up eyes (the 2nd render shows how the eyes worked before) i dont know whats causing one eye to be darker then the other... possobly just the lighting since bith sides are identical

-touched up the face, like the nose and lips most obvious (dont worry too much about the dent in the middle of the nose, once the two sides are "glued" together it should dissapear

OMG oh my is that j'ordos's hand grasing in the first render? :P

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#33 Vaaish

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:21 PM

looking alot better now, I think most of the remaining facial details can be added with the textures.

I guess my concern is that the pants are looking a little skin tight instead of baggy, kinda like riding pants. If we can keep the knee as it is (the elastic constricts around the joint makingthe material there more skin tight) and kinda make the rest of the leg baggy it should look better as joins the top of the boot.

Also the boot is looking alot thinner than it probably should be, I thin this is due to whatever method you've used to smooth the model (I'm leaning toward subdivison).

I'd rather have the models err on the side of too beefy than looking too fragile. (at least for our protagonists).

Keep it up you;re almost there and after you get this down it'll be alot easier to match it for the male model.

#34 fux0r666

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 05:22 PM

I did this a while ago. I didn't know whether or not to post it because after I came back from my hiatus, your model was already well under way. I am actually really proud of the sketch (with all of its anatomical anomalies). I spent a while researching clothing folds and such. I'm going to post the sketch as a link. Because I am so proud of it, I do not want the FSF to own the rights to it- but you can have use of it as source material for this model, if you want to use it.

Old X-Corps squaddy concept.

If there is concern about the rights issue, mods, please delete the hyperlink. I am open to any conversation regarding the issue of rights.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#35 fidel_

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 06:10 PM

I like the scetch very much personally. I'd at very least use it as a reference when adding detail (such as the bagginess (sp?) as pointed out by Vaaish) to the legs and arms.

Keep up the good work on the model Shinzon. =b Modeling high-poly detail isn't exactly easy when you start from a low-poly mesh.

Edited by fidel_, 07 January 2005 - 06:12 PM.

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#36 Vaaish

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:45 PM

I did this a while ago.  I didn't know whether or not to post it because after I came back from my hiatus, your model was already well under way.  I am actually really proud of the sketch (with all of its anatomical anomalies).  I spent a while researching clothing folds and such.  I'm going to post the sketch as a link.  Because I am so proud of it, I do not want the FSF to own the rights to it- but you can have use of it as source material for this model, if you want to use it.

Old X-Corps squaddy concept.

If there is concern about the rights issue, mods, please delete the hyperlink.  I am open to any conversation regarding the issue of rights.

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it's actually pretty close to what I envisioned, the only difference is the helmet and some smaller detailing. Very good sketch for reference though on how the pads, uniform and harness.

#37 Shinzon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 01:20 PM

Update:

-Made kneepads a bit tighter

-Removed Most of the folds in the leg (same effect could be reached with a bump map)

-fixed up lips, (no longer looks like Angeline Joline after 20 plastic surgerys

-Fixed up some parts (mostly in the vest) that took up too many polys and did nothing

-Beefed up boots and added a sole...


Great refrence, thankyou alot it gave a clearer idea for what i was sopposed to do... =b

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#38 Vaaish

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 08:07 PM

there still seems to be some serious oddities with the legs and feet. if you have to set that image fux posted as a background and match up the legs with that. I realize it isn't a perfect front on but it shold still help get everything looking right.

#39 fux0r666

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 02:55 PM

Vaaish: Yes, admittedly I didn't spend much time on the helmet and I didn't use any reference.. and I guess the result is a mushroom-head. If I get around to painting it mebe I'll rethink that helmet. It does look terrible.

Shinzon: good work so far! Your model and skills are coming along nicely. Your tenacity and openness to suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#40 Shinzon

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 06:00 PM

Changed the armour around a bit lower the knee pads and tweeked the arms using the refrence...

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#41 red knight

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 07:18 PM

Hi Shinzon, upload the current version so we can keep track of the model and maybe test it in the game.

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#42 Shinzon

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:12 PM

Yiekes you sure you want to test it in game?... It has a wooping lot of polys...
and each poket fold and button right now are diffrent objects... (the folds were just a box folded to look like poket, the buttons are just cylinders)

*Edited*

2 Iterations: (Double Smoothing) 38k polys... OMG

1 Iteration: 13k polys... OMG

No Smoothing:6k polys...

here i will render up the non smoothed version...

i should really start optimizing this thing cause this is just nuts...
I think it might look good ingame (non smoothed) if proporly optimzed... having a squad of 12 of those.... :Cry:


Oh and by the way what format do you want it to be? *.3ds *.obj ?

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Edited by Shinzon, 18 January 2005 - 08:23 PM.


#43 red knight

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 09:29 PM

I want to try the Automatic lod with normal map generator :D ... but it is that we are going to introduce a policy to upload the models while you work at them, to have all versions of them.

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#44 Vaaish

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 09:50 PM

you know the unsmoothed model looks alot more substantial than the smoothed one. Has more bulk whereas the smoothed version looks too delicate.

#45 GreatGold

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 10:57 PM

Howdy -

Random question relevant to this thread. Is the Battlescape already coded enough that models can be imported for testing? Or is that just for future stuff?

Thanks,
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#46 rincewind

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 01:05 AM

Howdy -

Random question relevant to this thread.  Is the Battlescape already coded enough that models can be imported for testing?  Or is that just for future stuff?

Thanks,
Gold

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Battlescape is not coded yet. But to test models in-game you can always just assign a battlescape model to an XNet-entry and have it shown in the XNet.
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#47 fux0r666

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 01:24 AM

LOL somehow I posted something from the ctd here.

anyways, I was goign to say that you can kind of control the smoothing with shading groups.. althought that might look odd on the pants. Would be good for the kneepads, tho.

Edited by fux0r666, 19 January 2005 - 04:15 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#48 j'ordos

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 10:53 AM

you know the unsmoothed model looks alot more substantial than the smoothed one. Has more bulk whereas the smoothed version looks too delicate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gotta agree with Vaaish here, the unsmoothed one looks really more down-to-earth and business-like, the smoothed one looks to fashionable :D
I little more rounding on the arms and legs maybe, but in this case it seems the old paradigm 'less=more' came true :)
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GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

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#49 Shinzon

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 05:08 PM

Alright since it seems I couldnt attach it on the BUG Tracker ill just do it here...

its a 3ds format and only half since the ohter half is mirrored

ill play around with the smoothing and see what i can come up with... but it seems that everyone is happy with the actual model now...

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Edited by Shinzon, 20 January 2005 - 05:57 PM.


#50 Shinzon

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 05:54 PM

Ok played around with smoothing groups and such and i kinda did the first step in texturing it...

each color is a diffrent texture... they combine together to form an object this prevents from having one HUGE texture file (I did it before, when you have one it will lag ALOT and will have a much lower quality then sevral combining) So each diffrent colored section is another texture...

I played around with smoothing groups and such and the non smoothed version look a little better now but still looks like a bit wierd... (especialy the face)

The smoothed version no longer shrinks it so much so they are about the same...
both renders are from teh exact same angle

*Edit*

Realized a small error under the chin (its blue) its supposed to be skin color... corecting it now

And if everyone is pleased ill start welding it together

Attached Files


Edited by Shinzon, 20 January 2005 - 05:57 PM.