Armed Civilians

[Guest Jim69]

In X-COM, did the majority of the people in the world already knew about the aliens and X-COM?  If they did, I might understand about the police being ordered to not interfere, but otherwise, the police probably won't know very much, and probably send in a small force to deal with the problem, hoping the goverment doesn't find out.  If they found two seperate forces fighting in their city, alien or human, they may take what they feel are appropriate measures.

 

As for why X-COM is needed:  X-COM is an entity with the troops and equipment that are required in order to eleminate the alien menace.  The police and SWAT, while quite good against most armed criminals, are not usually employed against military forces, and usually lack what is required to counter such forces sufficiently.

 

Now, as for making it easier, it probably may do so, but then again, the police and swat don't have to be particurly very good to slow down the aliens or X-COM a little.  They are basically slightly stronger civilians with weapons and no armor.

 

The saving issue in this title probably can't be elminated altogether, but two or four less reloads can be quite good, depending on who you are.

The public did not know about X-Com, but the goverments did. The goverments are spending their money on troops and equipment and they DEFINALTLY wouldn't let a SWAT unit get in the way.

 

1 policeman in the wrong place at the wrong time would be fine, but I would seriously think that a whole SWAT team would be pointless if they couldn't do anything 2 them, and if they were stronger then it'd make the game easier. If there is a major incident, for instance the Iranian Embassy is a famous one, the police were told 2 secure the area no nothing else. SF's did the actual work they were instructed 2 stay out the way without actually knowing that it was the SAS since they aren't supposed to officially exist.

 

IMO a couple of peeps with guns is fine, but a SWAT team would be lame.

 

If peeps have 2 keep reloading it is a testimont 2 how hard the game is. It may be the only way some peeps can progress in the game, so we shouldn't restrict them but reward them with braggin right 4 not saving, a la using Ironman.

[Sabin]

I think it can be balanced just fine. For example, what if Cryssalids and Etherels were present? That would make it quite tough just to get a foothold into a combat area, but then the police are present, holding off the invaders for an extra 3 or so turns, but unfortunately are being turned against themselves and X-COM, be it by Chrysalids or Etherels.

 

That probably won't make the game any easier. I also think the police and swat should get light vehicles, which not just realistic, but I think if the vehicles are abandoned, they can also be made use of by any present forces.

[fux0r666]

Armed civilians? Maybe only in the United States of America... and most prevailent in LA, NY and the southern states. Haha.

[[dipstick]]

That is an idea - vehicles!

[miceless]

Already been mentioned in a few places I think.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Yes, but it was decided that the maps would have to be much bigger.

And, I don't think that cops/swat would interfere with your guys. At the very least it would provide a distraction to the cyberdiscs waiting just outside your skyranger. I also think that the governments would view their national defense forces as a supplement to xcom, helping out when required. The military/swat/cops would not be able to hurt a muton with their weak rifles and flak vests, but that muton could only shoot at one thing at a time. Everytime a muton shoots at a cop, thats one less shot directed at your guys.

[miceless]

True, but you cant expect them to keep the alien invasion a secret if there are SWAT teams and loads of cops out there attacking them.

 

I think the odd loony would add comical value but adding loads of SWAT that you cant control is a bad idea.

 

Less experience for the xcom rookies.

[Sabin]

I doubt there would be that much less experience for team members, and a slight loss of such is probably acceptable if it enhances the game positively enough.

[miceless]

Im not convinced adding such SWAT teams would enhance the game...

 

I know I wouldnt want them in, thats for sure.

[j'ordos]

I would like it, if they show up once or twice maybe, just not every terror site.

 

edit: preferrably once mutons show up, makes it more fun

Edited August 17, 2003 by j'ordos

[miceless]

You mean whole squads or just the occasional loner?

[j'ordos]

Well,

1) the occasional, lonely weapon freak or police officer.

2) the SWAT squad.

 

but as I said, only occasionally (like once or twice, and you can get lucky and have them actually help somewhat or have a bad day and watch them all turn to Chryssalids ),

(although I wouldn't mind a terror-site at night in the beginning to have a Swat team...)

Edited August 17, 2003 by j'ordos

[Sabin]

The appearance of law enforcement agencys in any one terror mission would be random, I suppose.(or based on how quickly you got to the site, as well.) However, you can also have the game spawn corpses of them in terror sites that have no enforcers left when you arrive. That would make it realistic, to show that they tried, but failed.(and allow us a sort of compromise, that the SWAT and other agencys don't appear as NPCs too often, but do on occaision.)

[[dipstick]]

brilliant idea...

[miceless]

I suppose the corpses wold be a nice addition, bu even they should not always appear.

 

Youd have to base all this on country too, and have different models for various SWAT teams.

[soundman]

What about animals? you know, like a huge dog or something (trying to eat a Chryssalid? ?) /*shudder*/

Goats would be dangerous and farmers with pitch forks for the cattle mutilation levels.

Edited August 17, 2003 by soundman

[miceless]

Farmers with pitch forks. ::

 

I suppose the odd cat or dog on a terror mission might be fun. Perhaps there should be cows in the fields too...

[soundman]

A stampeding cow is no laughing matter, they would probably get turned into hamburgers by a heavy plasma tho...

[miceless]

Sweet, free meat.

 

After all that reaper meat, the rookies would probably eat raw steak!

[soundman]

Or be made to eat raw sectoid as part of a "ritual", kinda like a hunter thing.

[miceless]

Gawd, that sounds like Aosars Muton text. Hes got them turning into samurai warriors / jedi with warrior codes. That and eating raw flesh.

 

Apparently though, the mutons from the original had that in their text.

[soundman]

I wonder if any of the soldiers take souveneirs from the bodies? kinda like WWII, and the profiles should slowly change with experience too (like having designs/tatoos etc on uniform) or a necklace of muton ears or something (like universal soldier).

er I'm kinda going off topic here

Edited August 17, 2003 by soundman

[miceless]

Dunno, maybe they could. Do mutons have teeth? They could collect those.

 

Perhaps the interceptors can draw an alien face on the cockpit for every ufo they shoot down. Would we ever see that though?

 

This is indeed somewhat off topic.

 

Civilians with guns.

 

There, now its only partly off toic.

[FireHawk]

You know your missing a rather cool thing at having civ forces.

 

Mr Cop and squad get a call, they show up and his entire squad gets wiped out by Plasma fire...

But Mr Cop has natual instincts for survival and when that alien grenade landed at his feet...he picked it up and threw it right bloodly back into the bushes it came from.

 

He Pulls out his Pistol and thinks Faaarrrk and hides in a little corner between some garbage cans untill he can work out what the heck is going on.

 

sometime later he hears what sounds like fighting..comming out he sees Stragely clad humans fighting monster weird looking things.

 

One of the weird looking things comes his way, and he puts 3 rounds into its Big grey head and it drops like a rock.

 

While behind him Mr Xcom comes up and Stuns him with a stun rod...sticks him in the sky ranger...and now Xcom is up a soldier maybe unwilling...but sure that can be changed

[soundman]

Inpromtu recruiting. It could work, heroes would make good soldiers, what about being able to recruit from the entire worlds armed forces? (inc special forces), not just x-com soldier base. That would open a few options up

[[dipstick]]

Perhaps the interceptors can draw an alien face on the cockpit for every ufo they shoot down. Would we ever see that though?

I believe they do in XCOM 4 - Interceptor

[miceless]

The xcom soldier base IS from the entire worlds special forces. Its suppose to be all the worlds best, as long as they have no family connections.

[Guest Jim69]

Very true, I doubt if they would recruit from a local SWAT team somehow...

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Even if they are really good? And I don't know why they can't have family connections. I mean, just swear the family to secrecy! If they tell anyone, kill em!

[FireHawk]

Think about it....they have to keep things HUSH HUSH....they cant just let the guy go.

 

This would be intresting...

FOr missins not only do you have to kill the aliens..you have to make sure no civs can escape...so they can be processed wipe their memories ETC something like MIB

[miceless]

, get some of those flashy things.

 

IF they have no family in the first place, it saved you the bother of killing them. Also, if he dies the family wont wonder why he stopped calling at the weekends.

[Guest Jim69]

Quite often an SF's family have no idea he isn't a normal soldier.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

But I think an xcom agent's family would start to realize why his uniform came back with blue/green blood on it...

 

But that brings up a good point. Fake the xcom guy's death!

 

And, wouldn't the media show up if the aliens attacked? There were a lot of good ideas in the old media thread.

Edited August 17, 2003 by Cpl. Facehugger

[miceless]

But I think an xcom agent's family would start to realize why his uniform came back with blue/green blood on it...

That would be a bit thick wouldnt it?

[Guest Jim69]

But I think an xcom agent's family would start to realize why his uniform came back with blue/green blood on it...

That would be a bit thick wouldnt it?

Well, they wouldn't be living on the base now would they

 

And they are told after they die what he was doin as it is irrelivent then, it is 2 protect the Soldiers family from revenge attacks against his family.

[j'ordos]

Would those families be told he died while fighting against the alien invasion? You can't be 100% sure they won't tell anyone about a secret organisation that combats the alien invaders, and before you know it half the world is looking for you?

 

Back on topic: Would a simple cop be better in combat than an elite soldier? Ok in the movies, yeah that's right (just think of Die Hard 2 ), but IRL?

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Hey irt topic:

 

Maby we could have a cult of sirius clone, like Jim I think proposed, But we also add a cult that hates aliens and alien technology. That way we could have the two groups fight eachother. I think that would be fun.

 

And, j'ordos, if the cop managed to survive an alien attack, unlike so many rookies, then I would definitely want him on my team!

[Guest Jim69]

Hey irt topic:

 

Maby we could have a cult of sirius clone, like Jim I think proposed, But we also add a cult that hates aliens and alien technology. That way we could have the two groups fight eachother. I think that would be fun.

 

And, j'ordos, if the cop managed to survive an alien attack, unlike so many rookies, then I would definitely want him on my team!

Yeah, as long as they didn't try and interfere in ur battles against the aliens. What would be cool is 2 have a couple of 1 off missions where the Siris type gangs are trying to expose X-Corps, maybe they have some info on ur base, and are gonna attempt 2 get that info 2 the Aliens. So, u ave 2 get there b4 the aliens, and after a set number of turns they turn up and all heck breaks loose Humans shootin at u, aliens shootin at u, and u just HAVE to burn everything

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, I was thinking that they would attack you once you started using more alien tech, so you have aliens, alien cult, noalien cult, xcom, and any evil governmental entities! That is like atleast a 5-way battle! I like it! but it does interfer with the feel of the game a little... Make it an option!

[Guest Jim69]

Or very rare. I dunno bout a 5 way battle, that could get hard. I think if the cult was attackin u, they think they are helping the aliens but they kill em ne way coz they are human. So it's 1v1v1 but the cult don't attack the aliens and u could watch them doin all sorta dumb stuff like running upto a sectiod and he pops him in the head ::. That could make it interesting

[Jerry]

My $.02 (and sorry if I'm repeating something I missed from skimming). I think screaming citizens beating on slathering aliens with rollingpins before getting taken adds flavor. I think that the last stand at the police station is cool too.

 

While great local flavor, I don't think that they should represent a useful fighting force at all... just victims that *may* put up some level of fight. The game is about my team, not them.

[Breunor]

I think the main point behind a terror site is that the aliens have picked a spot they know has little resistance to force, where they can tear everybody up and make a horrible mess. There will be those who have guns of course, and some of them might even be packing while in town. Of those, how many would pull it out and start shooting back when these monsters drop down and start blowing/tearing apart anything that moves? And consider that the xcom soldiers are gleaned from the elite forces of the world, and they still miss more often than hit. How often will an untrained civ hit? I think it would be nice to have several/lots of civ bodies already on the ground when you arrive, and the remaining civs are just panicking at that point. If any civs shot back they were killed quickly. It doesn't count against your score until you're there and they kill more civs. That way we don't have to deal with AI teams and all that.

 

Do you guys have the option to remove your off topic posts? There's a good number in here, and it's tiresome to wade through them finding the relevent discussion. Sorry to say that, but consider all those people who say, "I looked around but couldn't find this idea". It's because they get tired of wading through the posts. Not trying to be a spoil sport, but we need to keep the topics to the point without lots of housekeeping (i.e, deleting other people's posts) Thanks.

[LaserTag]

I've always wonder how the best of the best always seem to miss........

 

but I would like something like a house full of civs, protected by a few armed ones.

 

As for swat, I think the gov' would have lock the entire place down while waiting for x-com. Although if you take too long they might send in troops.

[centurion]

This whole thing gets to this: how secret is the [XCom]? I mean, after the first terror attack everybody in the world will know aliens are here, and are doing bad things; and since we really shouldn't pretend cell phones were not invented, either people also know about heroic/moronic people in marked craft and uniforms trying to kill the aliens, or you do the MIB stuff or just slaughter everyone asap. Maybe ordinary people don't know about this, but the SWAT know and try to contain the sites before you arrive, in which case there would be cops/troops all over the place, dying like civilians and maybe causing some damage to the aliens (there cannot be so much difference between the [XCom] std issue rifle and whatever the assault troops have got that your rookie can kill a [sectoid] in 2 shots with the ordinary fighter not being able to kill one with a couple of bursts); they would obviously be in more or less covered places, not staging coordinated attacks, so this won't mess with the usual duties too much (some fire cover would be nice though, say, near the plane exit).

 

Edit: However, if the SWAT know about the existence of [XCom], that's already a whole lot of people; not terribly safe for keeping secret

Edited February 3, 2004 by centurion

[Stow]

Um, civvies with guns (especially in America) attacking the Aliens is realistic.

 

There are something like 250 million privately owned firearms in the untied states owned by at least 100 million people.

 

 

I like the idea of civvies helping out with guns. And its definately not unrealistic. In a shtf situation like this I would certainly shoot back at the aliens...

 

As far as quality of guns goes, does my AR-15 count as an effective weapon?

[UnFleshed One]

and since we really shouldn't pretend cell phones were not invented

 

You have a point, yes... And since XCOM have to remain secret, the only way left is for XCOM to shoot all the civilians before they see an alien and start calling around. Say, in ten turns after a civ spots an alien and gathers his wits (and if the civ is relatively safe) he starts calling 911, friends, parents and whatever. At this point you can approach him with your agent and stop him either by shooting him in the head , or by nursing him back to the safe place (near you craft probably). Otherwise you cover will be slightly blown. And perhabs you'll have to make a raid on some local newspaper .

 

Edit: It is harsh business to save the world...

Edited August 24, 2005 by UnFleshed One

[[Blehm 98]]

well, i'm sure your problem would be fixed if you just killed EVERYTHING that moved and wasn't either in a Brown T-shirt with badges, Blue armor, Brown Ugly armor, or Brown ugly armor with a box strapped to it

[Kikanaide]

Re: Cell phones

 

They need towers. Why stop 100's of people calling when you could hit one or two towers...or (using America for an example) mayhap the X-corps could have FCC-like powers and be able to request the shutdown of towers without damaging them. Edit: or have a few hackers armed with secret passwords that could shut them down without anyone being the wiser (system busy, anyone?)

 

Better yet, might the aliens not attack towers anyway? It'd cut down on the 911 calls (and thus SWAT teams) if people had to run into a building before they could call for help...after all, a lot of people die in the street. And, seriously...if only one guy calls in claiming aliens are killing everyone...who would believe them?

Edited August 24, 2005 by Kikanaide

[jtgibson]

Very, very late, but:

 

* Most countries in the world do have gun controls.

* Gun controls are usually established on concealable weapons (like pistols), combat weapons (like assault rifles), and explosives (like grenades and rocket-propelled grenades).

* Gun controls are rarely established on standard weapons (like shotguns and rifles).

 

 

If an alien landed in a Canadian suburb, for example, you would very likely see one or two civilians popping out into the streets with their hunting rifles and shooting at the aliens. Unfortunately, those civilians could be berserked because they wouldn't know who to trust: they'll shoot at the aliens, but they may also shoot at X-Corps....

 

Civilians attacking aliens with pistols seems phenomenally unlikely to me anywhere in the world except in a country like the United States, where gun controls are less rigid.

 

 

As for the actual idea of civilians fighting back: it's neat, but I don't know if it's worth the expense in effort. I just say the civilians should run around in panic from both the aliens and the X-Corps... and, fortunately, they're in such a fright that it can all be explained away by the government cleanup crew as misinterpreting a (human) terrorist attack in their nervous hysteria.

[Effigyofdoom]

hmm I think that having the rare civilian/cop/SWAT member is a good idea, that will add flavor and a bit of fun, but i was always under the impression that the SWAT team had already arrived but had all been killed. this is because if you look at the time that it took your skyranger to get to a terrorsite a good 5-20 hours had passed, depending on how close one of your basses was. and considering that the local police force usually has the response time of a couple of minutes max, i think that there should be a lot of corpses, and mayhaps one or two(if they're really good) surviving law enforcement officers. so you could have something like a 10% chance of a surviving cop, and have another 2% for two survivors and then each civilian has a 5% chance to have a gun and then they could only use it while they werent panicking, which wouldnt be very often.