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Research Time indication


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#1 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:18 AM

If manufacture has the "time left" meter, then why wouldn't include it in research? I often was angry on these science guys 'cause they didn't come up with any bright idea :idea: for weeks.

One time, I've lost. A picture of mutated humans had shown... and guess what next? "Research Completed" window opened! "We can now manufacture: Stun Bomb" A little too late, I think. :)
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#2 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:27 AM

I'm not sure what u mean, could u explain it 4 us dumbarses :huh?:

#3 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:41 AM

Part of manufacture screen:

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"This is why I love subtle humour, it's as dirty or as clean as the reader's own mind." -- Sinscale17

"Just imagine if you were really the XCOM commander. You'd build defence modules like there was no tomorrow. Because if you didn't, there really would be no tomorrow!" -- Aiki-Knight

#4 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:43 AM

Oh, I c. U r sayin there is no time meter for the research screen. IMO there shouldn't b as who can say when research is gonna be finished? Noone can predict a good idea, only an estimate

#5 miceless

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 06:37 AM

Perhaps a basic idea could be given, like to the nearest day or whatever. I agree with what you say Jim but perhaps some kind of indication would be good? Dunno. Just an idea.
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#6 Breunor

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:15 AM

I think that the original system gave a generic progress status, which is good for something you don't know anything about. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. You don't know when you'll find it, but as the stack gets smaller you can estimate that you're getting close.

Since it's not a definite progress meter, but the hours of research are fixed, it would be nice to have a percent chance to "figure it out" ahead of schedule. Say you're researching plasma rifle, and it takes 3000 hours of research. After you're 10% done (hours-wise), a 1% chance is checked for finishing ahead of time. After 20% is done, it becomes 3%, and after 30% of the hours are done it becomes 6% (1%+2%+3%). Each time you reach a 10% milestone the check is made. A little screen pops up telling you a scientist had an epiphany :idea: and a breakthrough is made. Just imagine having 10% of the avenger research done, and you get lucky and finish it all right then! Could something like this make up for the "unknown" factor of research progress, or would it create too much unbalance? In any given game, you might get 1 or 2 items finished faster this way.

I equate this to the movie Real Genius, when Val Kilmer's laser project is messed up and he gets his idea from the dry ice cylinder. It's unlikely to happen, but when it does the research works.

#7 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 09:29 AM

I think that the original system gave a generic progress status, which is good for something you don't know anything about. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. You don't know when you'll find it, but as the stack gets smaller you can estimate that you're getting close.

Since it's not a definite progress meter, but the hours of research are fixed, it would be nice to have a percent chance to "figure it out" ahead of schedule. Say you're researching plasma rifle, and it takes 3000 hours of research. After you're 10% done (hours-wise), a 1% chance is checked for finishing ahead of time. After 20% is done, it becomes 3%, and after 30% of the hours are done it becomes 6% (1%+2%+3%). Each time you reach a 10% milestone the check is made. A little screen pops up telling you a scientist had an epiphany :idea:  and a breakthrough is made. Just imagine having 10% of the avenger research done, and you get lucky and finish it all right then! Could something like this make up for the "unknown" factor of research progress, or would it create too much unbalance? In any given game, you might get 1 or 2 items finished faster this way.

I equate this to the movie Real Genius, when Val Kilmer's laser project is messed up and he gets his idea from the dry ice cylinder. It's unlikely to happen, but when it does the research works.

Thats a very good idea, it would also help make each game different as u may get lasers earlier in one game and l8r in another.

#8 miceless

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 09:56 AM

In theory, the research progress should be based on this. You cant really say that after x number of hours you are guaranteed to have finished the project. The only thing thats sure is that the longer you spend on it the more likely you are to finish it. Also, if you have more people on it one of them is bound to come up with the eureka eventually so number of scientists becomes important.
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#9 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:17 PM

i think breunors idea will matter most on harder difficulties, when you REALLY need that heavy plasma YESTERDAY, something like this might just the player the upper hand at a very crucial moment, i love the idea... but im not sure if its balanced... how about a 1% set back check also every 10% of completion... where i can delay.... maybe have this be an option

Random Research Chance ON/OFF

but over all i like the idea

#10 miceless

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 12:30 AM

Thats pretty much what i meant. IF you are going to base it on 'eurekas' then you have to do the opposite and add the setbacks. At that point, it becomes completely based on randomness and you are in the situation i described above.
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#11 Breunor

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 10:02 AM

I was thinking that there'd still be a 100% chance after you reached the standard number of hours, but this system would give you a chance to learn it earlier. I see what you mean though, not have a fixed number of hours to research but instead base it totally on the chance to learn. That would be very interesting to do. You'd still need an "hours" rating for each item to determine how often checks are made, but instead of a total hours you could use an interval check. From the previous example, if the 10% check is made every 300 hours, you say the chance of discovery goes up 1% each time the interval is reached. So the chance to learn after X hours is: 300=1%, 900=3%, 9000=30%, etc. At each interval the check is made, and if successful you learn it ahead of schedule.

If you want a setback chance as well, I suggest you automate it into the cumulative %. Say 1 out of 100 intervals reduces your chance by X% instead of increasing it, but I wouldn't say it just drops to 1% again. You might never learn something, or it takes so long the game is screwed up by it. I suggest the setback have a 1 in 100 chance of occuring, and it drops you back 10% when it happens. On average you're losing 10% of your work due to setback then.

The research screen can show the current "percent understood" progress score when you go to that dialog box. Hopefully all these numbers made sense...

#12 Paladin

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 02:33 PM

Perhaps a basic idea could be given, like to the nearest day or whatever. I agree with what you say Jim but perhaps some kind of indication would be good? Dunno. Just an idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's exactly what we have, a basic idea of how far to go, as in "unknown", "poor", "average", "good", "excellent"... :blink:

"Hummm, le'ts see... I estimate we'll need 3 days and 11 hours to figure out what this Elirium thingie is..."
C'MON, iT's ok to know how long it'll take to BUILD something, but the research part takes the time it takes, considering the number of scientists you have... :beer:
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#13 doubleSkulls

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:07 PM

Why not combine the two ideas?

At the start of a project randomise how long its going to take (this information is not available to the player!). That way its easier to ensure that it takes a reasonable amount of time - and it can get randomised by getting lots of random numbers (which produces a bell curve so the "normal" time is more likely and results are clustered around the average).

Then show progress as a % towards the average time it would take for that research item. Some items then complete at below 100%, some over 100% - and best of all its unpredictable and different every game.