After Finishing The Game

[Extralucas]

Hail to all fellow Apoc and other X-Coms addicts! (Especially the one, burrning everything, especially cultist only because they're the cultist, BurnThemALL)

 

1.Interrogations

 

I found BTA complaining that he can't capture cultists and 'have fun' with them. Well I guess game was supposed to be able to do that. In UFOpadie subdir (I guess that's it) you can find 'VIP Title' so probably there was designed capturing leaders of orgs and interrogating 'em and doing other nasty stuff with them. But, as we all know, X-Com series seems to be cursed and many things are just undeveloped. I wonder how would be they stored. In Alien Containment? With B.Sucekrs? I guess they would suck him than just sit there and chat with him about his job in crime syndicate or cult.

 

2. Poppers

 

Where the he** is that smoke coming from? Mouth? But? Skin? This little 'fella' is funny thing. He runs around exploding making your soldiers cry because of such stupid reason like "Sir, that little muthaf*cka blew my arm off... Oww--". What a pussy ... But if you've got your soldiers situated well, say ambushin UFO entrance in prone mode, they are just another dead body on a pile...

 

3. Aliens

 

God, how awful, stupid, naive, childish, ugly were they when I started to play! Later I just realize they're something new. What would you change in X-Com & X-Com 2 to make it new and original? Another 'tech-race' with big guns and metalic crafts? In Apoc we've got organic ones. All their stuff is organical, which is a great explain how can they infiltrate orgs. Cos - where could they get their weapon? If they're born already on Earth, hatced only from Multiworm's Eggs, how can they be armed? Only in such armament. I guess they're OK after all.

 

4. UFOs.

 

At last we've got big UFOs, great UFOs, UFOs that really ressemble those in 'real life' (in quotation marks because some ppl belive in them, others do not). They're saucer like and they're really huge. 9 floors high levels rock! Now you can see they're armament and equipment. I was always wondering how does the UFO in X-Com defend itself if in tactical combat there aren't any cannons or other weapon systems.

 

5. Signs of the Past.

 

Something what I really missed in X-Com: Terror from the deep. In Apoc there are many signs of before parts of the series. Hybrids, plasma weapons, elerium, laser weapons, Psi, fly suits, MarSec (remains of old X-Com). And the biggest sign, reason of entire game - destroyed Earth's eco system by exploding T'Leth (I've never seen it tho, cos I never managed to finish the game).

 

6. How good they attacked us in '99.

 

Us mentioned up first and second Alien War gave humanity many good things, and pushed us in advance few years/centuries forward. Without all tech achieved by Alien Wars we probably wouldn't manage to fend off alien incursion (of course if we did )

 

7. Mega-Primus.

 

On Easy it doesn't look impresive. Of course when you will closer ready the UFOpaedia you will learn those buildings are really huge, and then they're really respectable. But when after that you will turn on Superhuman... Well I was shocked how huge is that city.

 

8. Organizations.

 

Very nice move to create 'em. Different suppliers of arms and stuff. Wars between organizations, raids, treatys... I never liked politics, and I guess I won't do that soon, but it's really nice touch in Apoc.

 

9. Independence.

 

In X-Com 1 & 2 when funding nations get hostile X-Com got disbanded and everyone went home. In Apoc entire city may be hostile to you and you will still be able to play, earn money, manfacture arms and fight alien scum. That's when they're hostile. But what if all would get alien controlled? I never experienced that. My record is 13 organizations controlled by aliens. (There are 25 orgs so that's over half of the city). Only organizations that is really important is IMO Transtellar. Without them you cannot transfer stuff between bases and non-military personel.

 

10. Future.

 

I wonder how could look future of X-Com universe. Disruptor technology pushed humanity forward as much as 1st and 2nd alien wars did. Teleporters, Annihilators, Beam Weapons, Disruptor Armors, Advanced Workshops able to create entire crafts using little space. Ofcourse that's all X-Com's property so they would easly take controll over the city. With best soldiers, and unique technologies that able them to raze Mega-Primus in few minutes they are real force. I doubt Senate would have enough power to disband the X-Com. It will be probably renamed tho. I guess it will be most powerfull organization ever.

 

 

Well that's all. If you have something you wanna share with others or just agree/disagree with me at some point you post it here... I wonder how fast will this thread get changed into strategy tips and moved to Strategy/Tacitcs.

[BurnThemALL]

It was great to read your thoughts about XCOM, thank you Extralucas!

 

I agree it's a great shame that Apocalypse didn't get finished as it was planned. I read somewhere that it was planned that you could send spies to Organisations, interogate prisoners as you mentioned. Like in XCOM EnemyUK when you could capture alien navigators or leaders.

 

Another thing that's on my mind: A member here told us that a report of a living Overspawn exists in the UFOpedia. I die to see that and I wish someone could tell me if and how it's possible to capture an Overspawn alive.

 

Well, just my thoughts here..

 

To answer your Popper question "Where the he** is that smoke coming from? Mouth? But? Skin?"

 

It's because they had beans for dinner! That's why they are that explosive...

Edited September 13, 2003 by BurnThemALL

[j'ordos]

on Xcommand you'll find the live overspawn UFOpedia entry. Here

there's also a section dedicated to the stuff left out of the game, but was still in the UFOpedia : here

 

When the game was released they originally planned to release patches adding those features, but I guess sales weren't good enough : :uh:

[[dipstick]]

Also, how the h*ll are you supposed to lose? I gave up on the buildings because they were so BORING! Shoot this, shoot that. repeat

[j'ordos]

Well, if they destroy your last base you probably lose .

[Extralucas]

If your money drops below 0 at the beggining of new week X-Com gets disbanded.

[BurnThemALL]

Thank you for those great links dear j'ordos!

 

Now you have to tell me - how can I capture an Overspawn ALIVE? Please...

 

@ dipstick: Alien buildings is where the FUN starts. Here you can BURN ALL TO THE GROUND without having any troubles - getting orgs mad at you. :flame: :psychosanta: Enjoy it! Fry them!

Edited September 15, 2003 by BurnThemALL

[Extralucas]

on Xcommand you'll find the live overspawn UFOpedia entry. Here

there's also a section dedicated to the stuff left out of the game, but was still in the UFOpedia : here

 

When the game was released they originally planned to release patches adding those features, but I guess sales weren't good enough : :uh:

Im wondering would it be possible to revive Apoc... Some weapons are in game able to edit 'em via savegame editors, so I guess it is possible...

[Mustang]

If they do remake it I hope it works on my computer

[Extralucas]

But I'm afraid they wont do any soon, and it surely WONT work on my PC.

 

Processor 337 Mhz

HDD 6 GB

RAM 64 MB

::

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, the addition of features to apoc would require a large amount of coders and graphics artists. Almost as much as Xenocide itself possibly.

 

But, there is talk of incorporating apoc elements into xeno down the road, but you will probably have to get a new computer Extralucas

[Extralucas]

But I will not... Im just to lazy, too greedy (to loose my chash for comp upgr)... But I've seen geoscape at my pals comp... So beautifull... . I would like to join the talk but it would require me to join to project members group... I guess...

[Tuoppi]

Overspawn is not so complicated to capture alive...

1. Annihilate all other opposition. (Helps if you blow up reinforcement pads with vortex mines, the orange ones)

2. Give her some devastator fire, not enough to kill.

3. Throw a lot of stun gas in.

4. If not stunned after a while, fire single shots while keeping the green gas thick. (relatively weak weapon preferred to avoid accidental kill.)

 

Of course you have to keep distance... Throw grenades from sides. Research gives a neat Anti-Alien gas...

[Cpl. Facehugger]

You mean the queenspawn? The overspawn is the big godzilla type monster that appears on the cityscape.

[Tsereve]

This is a bit irrelevant:

In the front of the manual, it mentions the war you fight in Interceptor. Apoc's year is later than Interc, too. So, how come Apoc is 3 and Interc is 4? In the Interc UFOpedia, it says Mega-Primus will be completed soon. This seems like the makers just got the numbers wrong, right? But then why can't you use hand-held Phase Cannons, Super Avengers, and Firestarts in Apoc?

[j'ordos]

they decided to do a prequel, like star wars . Perhaps those interstellar craft aren't suited for atmospheric combat? And handheld phase cannons are not possible? Or not necessary/useful/efficient... Edited July 17, 2004 by j'ordos

[T-1]

This is a bit irrelevant:

In the front of the manual, it mentions the war you fight in Interceptor.  Apoc's year is later than Interc, too.  So, how come Apoc is 3 and Interc is 4?  In the Interc UFOpedia, it says Mega-Primus will be completed soon.  This seems like the makers just got the numbers wrong, right?  But then why can't you use hand-held Phase Cannons, Super Avengers, and Firestarts in Apoc?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could ask a lot of questions like this. If we had Blaster Launchers, Heavy Plasma, Lasers that don't have to reload, Tachyon Beams, Fusion Ball Launchers, Sonic Cannons, Small Launchers, Shields, Nova Bombs (of course, Nova Bombs might've gotten banned since X-COM: Interceptor), Enveloping Fusion Torpedos, Elerium Torpedos, Tracking Tracer Cannons, Ground Based Fusion Ball Launchers, etc. like we had in the previous games, we could just put a Fusion Ball Launchers on the walls of the city and maybe a Tracking Tracer Cannon Battery here or there, and the new UFOs would be annihilated the second they appear.

[Guest Azrael]

This is a bit irrelevant:

In the front of the manual, it mentions the war you fight in Interceptor.  Apoc's year is later than Interc, too.  So, how come Apoc is 3 and Interc is 4?  In the Interc UFOpedia, it says Mega-Primus will be completed soon.  This seems like the makers just got the numbers wrong, right?  But then why can't you use hand-held Phase Cannons, Super Avengers, and Firestarts in Apoc?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could ask a lot of questions like this. If we had Blaster Launchers, Heavy Plasma, Lasers that don't have to reload, Tachyon Beams, Fusion Ball Launchers, Sonic Cannons, Small Launchers, Shields, Nova Bombs (of course, Nova Bombs might've gotten banned since X-COM: Interceptor), Enveloping Fusion Torpedos, Elerium Torpedos, Tracking Tracer Cannons, Ground Based Fusion Ball Launchers, etc. like we had in the previous games, we could just put a Fusion Ball Launchers on the walls of the city and maybe a Tracking Tracer Cannon Battery here or there, and the new UFOs would be annihilated the second they appear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There can be numerous explanations, lasers may have to reload because the ones in Apoc are far more powerful than in X-Com1, no Nova Bombs because.. well... they would probably destroy the whole city, maybe half the planet, no Fusion Ball Launchers because Apoc's vehicle weaponry is already more powerful (the fact that some vehicles and UFOs can take more hits is because they are obviously more heavily armored than UFOs and ships in X-Com1, maybe the standard vehicle has an armor plating comparable to that of an old Avenger, who knows).

As to why they don't have automated weaponry on the walls... could be because they simply did not expect to have problems, and as for why they didn't build them as soon as they started having them, you could find some in-game explanations as well, such as the Aliens sabotaging any attempts to do so, or the gangs (which is most likely).

[[NKF]]

Alternately, most of the weapons that you can get are downgraded civilian issue (i.e. limited) versions of the weapon. They are used for security in the city, after all. The plasma gun for example is quite a powerful weapon in its own right, but I imagine it's nothing compared to the heavy plasma. See, even without wearing armour, you don't suffer from many instant death scenarios with most of the more common starting weapons - with one or two exceptions like the high explosive and the large rocket.

 

Also, the alien ships are made up of thick layers of solid organic mass compared to the light weight thin alien alloy hulls of the original ships, and are many times larger. The UFO Battleship is a tug boat in comparison to the battleship in Apocalypse. It's no surprise that the lasers in Apocalypse appear weak. There's just so much more to cut through.

 

- NKF

[T-1]

There can be numerous explanations, lasers may have to reload because the ones in Apoc are far more powerful than in X-Com1, no Nova Bombs because.. well... they would probably destroy the whole city, maybe half the planet, no Fusion Ball Launchers because Apoc's vehicle weaponry is already more powerful (the fact that some vehicles and UFOs can take more hits is because they are obviously more heavily armored than UFOs and ships in X-Com1, maybe the standard vehicle has an armor plating comparable to that of an old Avenger, who knows).

As to why they don't have automated weaponry on the walls... could be because they simply did not expect to have problems, and as for why they didn't build them as soon as they started having them, you could find some in-game explanations as well, such as the Aliens sabotaging any attempts to do so, or the gangs (which is most likely).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lasers *appear* (haven't tested it) to be about as powerful against unarmored human targets. Nova Bombs could be built using the dimension gate tech to utterly destroy the entire alien dimension as soon as you just finished your first dimension probe to test if it works. More powerful than fusion ball launchers? Hmm... I'm having some trouble believing that chemical explosives could be more powerful than a nuclear fusion-based explosive.

 

That still leaves a lot of other techs I mentioned unanswered.

 

Alternately, most of the weapons that you can get are downgraded civilian issue (i.e. limited) versions of the weapon. They are used for security in the city, after all. The plasma gun for example is quite a powerful weapon in its own right, but I imagine it's nothing compared to the heavy plasma. See, even without wearing armour, you don't suffer from many instant death scenarios with most of the more common starting weapons - with one or two exceptions like the high explosive and the large rocket.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, this definitely makes sense.... except, X-COM is a military organization. In addition, heavy launchers don't seem very civilian to me.

 

Also, the alien ships are made up of thick layers of solid organic mass compared to the light weight thin alien alloy hulls of the original ships, and are many times larger. The UFO Battleship is a tug boat in comparison to the battleship in Apocalypse. It's no surprise that the lasers in Apocalypse appear weak. There's just so much more to cut through.

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alien Alloys may have been lightweight, but they were extremely durable. However, yes, you are probably right, Apoc UFOs probably are tougher than UFO UFOs. That doesn't explain why the Laser Sniper Rifle requires clips and why it seems relatively weaker against unarmored human targets.

[[NKF]]

Alternately, most of the weapons that you can get are downgraded civilian issue (i.e. limited) versions of the weapon. They are used for security in the city, after all. The plasma gun for example is quite a powerful weapon in its own right, but I imagine it's nothing compared to the heavy plasma. See, even without wearing armour, you don't suffer from many instant death scenarios with most of the more common starting weapons - with one or two exceptions like the high explosive and the large rocket.

Ok, this definitely makes sense.... except, X-COM is a military organization. In addition, heavy launchers don't seem very civilian to me.

 

That's why I was a bit vague and said most of the weapons available are probably civilian issue weapons. Some of the rarer heavy weapons like the high explosive, large rocket and power sword can indeed kill an unarmoured unit in a single hit - there's I'd consider to be more military issue (and most of them are time released). I think it's just most of the common light arms like the laser and plasma based weapons that come in weaker variants.

 

As for X-Com being a military unit - yes, I agree. But it makes use of equipment that's readily available on the market. Like the original games, they make do with what's available until they capture some better technology and manufacture some of their own. No sense breaking tradition now.

 

Also, the alien ships are made up of thick layers of solid organic mass compared to the light weight thin alien alloy hulls of the original ships, and are many times larger. The UFO Battleship is a tug boat in comparison to the battleship in Apocalypse. It's no surprise that the lasers in Apocalypse appear weak. There's just so much more to cut through.

 

- NKF

Alien Alloys may have been lightweight, but they were extremely durable. However, yes, you are probably right, Apoc UFOs probably are tougher than UFO UFOs. That doesn't explain why the Laser Sniper Rifle requires clips and why it seems relatively weaker against unarmored human targets.

 

Tougher, I don't know. Bigger, yes, indeedy!

 

True. While the ship lasers are weak but still up to par, the laser sniper rifle doesn't quite satisfy. A bit of a giant step backwards for laser tech. It's either a civilian issue watered down weapon (a heavily watered down weapon), or the programmers just wanted laser tech to become 'old' technology to make room for disrupter beam tech (which have recharging batteries - the way the laser sniper rifle should have been).

 

Or perhaps even the batteries used in Apocalypse are akin to these cheap mass produced AAA batteries that might power clocks or TV/DVD/VCR remote controls quite well, but are otherwise useless at pretty much everything else. Ah, that's a good excuse - they're using cheap mass produced power sources rather than relying on the more expensive and higher quality rechargeable power sources from the manufacturer. Or maybe X-Com never released the specs for their original power source, and it's now long lost.

 

- NKF

[T-1]

That's why I was a bit vague and said most of the weapons available are probably civilian issue weapons. Some of the rarer heavy weapons like the high explosive, large rocket and power sword can indeed kill an unarmoured unit in a single hit - there's I'd consider to be more military issue (and most of them are time released). I think it's just most of the common light arms like the laser and plasma based weapons that come in weaker variants.

 

As for X-Com being a military unit - yes, I agree. But it makes use of equipment that's readily available on the market. Like the original games, they make do with what's available until they capture some better technology and manufacture some of their own. No sense breaking tradition now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then why can't X-COM build Heavy Plasma/Blaster Launchers using Engineers?

 

Tougher, I don't know. Bigger, yes, indeedy!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this case it's about the same thing.

 

True. While the ship lasers are weak but still up to par, the laser sniper rifle doesn't quite satisfy. A bit of a giant step backwards for laser tech. It's either a civilian issue watered down weapon (a heavily watered down weapon), or the programmers just wanted laser tech to become 'old' technology to make room for disrupter beam tech (which have recharging batteries - the way the laser sniper rifle should have been).

 

Or perhaps even the batteries used in Apocalypse are akin to these cheap mass produced AAA batteries that might power clocks or TV/DVD/VCR remote controls quite well, but are otherwise useless at pretty much everything else. Ah, that's a good excuse - they're using cheap mass produced power sources rather than relying on the more expensive and higher quality rechargeable power sources from the manufacturer. Or maybe X-Com never released the specs for their original power source, and it's now long lost.

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or perhaps Megapol wants to make a quick buck on forcing people to buy batteries.

[Guest Azrael]

That's why I was a bit vague and said most of the weapons available are probably civilian issue weapons. Some of the rarer heavy weapons like the high explosive, large rocket and power sword can indeed kill an unarmoured unit in a single hit - there's I'd consider to be more military issue (and most of them are time released). I think it's just most of the common light arms like the laser and plasma based weapons that come in weaker variants.

 

As for X-Com being a military unit - yes, I agree. But it makes use of equipment that's readily available on the market. Like the original games, they make do with what's available until they capture some better technology and manufacture some of their own. No sense breaking tradition now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then why can't X-COM build Heavy Plasma/Blaster Launchers using Engineers?

 

Tougher, I don't know. Bigger, yes, indeedy!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this case it's about the same thing.

 

True. While the ship lasers are weak but still up to par, the laser sniper rifle doesn't quite satisfy. A bit of a giant step backwards for laser tech. It's either a civilian issue watered down weapon (a heavily watered down weapon), or the programmers just wanted laser tech to become 'old' technology to make room for disrupter beam tech (which have recharging batteries - the way the laser sniper rifle should have been).

 

Or perhaps even the batteries used in Apocalypse are akin to these cheap mass produced AAA batteries that might power clocks or TV/DVD/VCR remote controls quite well, but are otherwise useless at pretty much everything else. Ah, that's a good excuse - they're using cheap mass produced power sources rather than relying on the more expensive and higher quality rechargeable power sources from the manufacturer. Or maybe X-Com never released the specs for their original power source, and it's now long lost.

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or perhaps Megapol wants to make a quick buck on forcing people to buy batteries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or Laser Sniper Rifles are much more powerful than X-Com1's Laser Rifles and so they need special batteries <_<

[T-1]

Or Laser Sniper Rifles are much more powerful than X-Com1's Laser Rifles and so they need special batteries

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OR, as I said earlier... I'm pretty sure the laser is equally as powerful, if not weaker than a UFO-era Laser Rifle. That still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't be able to have rechargeable Heavy Lasers with Autofire (Interceptor's Gatling Laser tech applied to infantry weapons).

[Guest Azrael]

Or Laser Sniper Rifles are much more powerful than X-Com1's Laser Rifles and so they need special batteries <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OR, as I said earlier... I'm pretty sure the laser is equally as powerful, if not weaker than a UFO-era Laser Rifle. That still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't be able to have rechargeable Heavy Lasers with Autofire (Interceptor's Gatling Laser tech applied to infantry weapons).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Errr... why are you so sure? there is no evidence of that, it's far more logical to assume that they are more powerful.

[T-1]

Or Laser Sniper Rifles are much more powerful than X-Com1's Laser Rifles and so they need special batteries

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OR, as I said earlier... I'm pretty sure the laser is equally as powerful, if not weaker than a UFO-era Laser Rifle. That still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't be able to have rechargeable Heavy Lasers with Autofire (Interceptor's Gatling Laser tech applied to infantry weapons).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Errr... why are you so sure? there is no evidence of that, it's far more logical to assume that they are more powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems to act like that on unarmored humans. Now, unless unarmored humans have evolved to have steel skin since UFO Defense, then that should be an accurate way to test it. Of course, I haven't done this scientifically or anything, it just seems like it. I should actually compare the amount of shots it takes to kill an unarmored human between UFO and Apoc weapons.

[Guest Azrael]

Of course I think comparing two weapons from two different games is completely nonsense, but I think that it'd be ridiculous that the laser weapons in the year 2xxx are so much weaker.

[Gurluas2000]

2080 precisely...

and interceptor is in 2060 i think

[[NKF]]

A lot of time has past since the first alien war, and X-Com was disbanded a few times since then. Who knows what has happened to the older weapon specs. Locked up and forgotten in some mass storage area. Perhaps when X-Com was first disbanded, the plans were later dug up and parts of it were sold to organizations specialising in advanced weapons that were also bent on making money and they ended up monopolizing the designs. The lasers disappeared for a period after the first war and reappeared during Interceptor. I'm not sure if the lasers in Interceptor were X-Com made or purchased off someone else.

 

The tougher hide theories is good too. Implants and whatnot. Genetic reengineering seems commonplace in Apocalypse, or at least during a time prior to Apocalypse (like the Hybrids).

 

- NKF

Edited November 24, 2005 by NKF

[Guest Azrael]

A lot of time has past since the first alien war, and X-Com was disbanded a few times since then. Who knows what has happened to the older weapon specs. Locked up and forgotten in some mass storage area. Perhaps when X-Com was first disbanded, the plans were later dug up and parts of it were sold to organizations specialising in advanced weapons that were also bent on making money and they ended up monopolizing the designs.  The lasers disappeared for a period after the first war and reappeared during Interceptor. I'm not sure if the lasers in Interceptor were X-Com made or purchased off someone else.

 

The tougher hide theories is good too. Implants and whatnot. Genetic reengineering seems commonplace in Apocalypse, or at least during a time prior to Apocalypse (like the Hybrids).

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I say they cannot be compared as easily because the combat system was probably reworked and not just copied/pasted like it happened in TFTD, so I wouldn't just compare the HPs of civillians in the two games.

[T-1]

A lot of time has past since the first alien war, and X-Com was disbanded a few times since then. Who knows what has happened to the older weapon specs. Locked up and forgotten in some mass storage area. Perhaps when X-Com was first disbanded, the plans were later dug up and parts of it were sold to organizations specialising in advanced weapons that were also bent on making money and they ended up monopolizing the designs.  The lasers disappeared for a period after the first war and reappeared during Interceptor. I'm not sure if the lasers in Interceptor were X-Com made or purchased off someone else.

 

The tougher hide theories is good too. Implants and whatnot. Genetic reengineering seems commonplace in Apocalypse, or at least during a time prior to Apocalypse (like the Hybrids).

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I say they cannot be compared as easily because the combat system was probably reworked and not just copied/pasted like it happened in TFTD, so I wouldn't just compare the HPs of civillians in the two games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not HPs, but amount of shots it takes to kill someone. That in theory, shouldn't change.

[Sorrow]

Hi, I'm new here .

 

I'd like to notice that X-Com3 was created in times when one-shoot kills were no longer acceptable.

All weapons do less damage than their counterparts in ufo.

 

For example, Retribution Missile Launcher fires a big missile with a fusion warhead but it's 3.5 times weaker than Fusion Ball.

 

Besides that, proportions between prices of personal weapons and vehicle weapons are changed.

 

40mm autocannon is 2.4 times cheaper than Megapol (personal) Autocannon

Retribution Missile Launcher is 1.5 times more expensive than Heavy Launcher

Bolter 4000 laser is 1.1 times more expensive than Laser Rifle

 

I think that X-Com 3 is less realistic than Ufo and X-com 2.

[Sharp]

Erm there are reasons why the prices are different, little thing ya know, inflation, not only that using a new currency in a way, I doubt that dollars really stayed on, and if it did is completly different in price.

 

Also the weapon damages are proportional to the game, not to the series, disruptor is supposed to be more powerful then plasma but it says a disruptor gun does 70 dmg while im sure a heavy plasma rifle did 120.

[Moriarty]

wanted to reply to this earlier, but forgot all about it...

 

one thing you are not taking into account is that most of the alien high-energy systems in apoc draw their power from the alien dimension. ergo, they all stop working after you destroyed the last building (which is why your ship crashes in the ending sequence). so there is no really big technological advancement, because all of those technologies require HUGE amounts of energy that are simply not available anymore.

 

And the laser thing, well... I guess they just realized that a weapon with unlimited ammo is not good in terms of balance (apart from being thermodynamically impossible). Unlimited ammo for craft laser weapons is fine, because they are being powered by the ship's engines.

[Sorrow]

Erm there are reasons why the prices are different, little thing ya know, inflation, not only that using a new currency in a way, I doubt that dollars really stayed on, and if it did is completly different in price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It doesn't explain, why ship weapons aren't more expensive than personal weapons.

Vehicle mounted 40mm autocannon shouldn't be cheaper than personal autocannon.

[Sharp]

Mabye because the vehicle weapons are military grade equipment and are mass produced and personal weapons are more of a erm.... niche market.

[Sorrow]

No?

[[dipstick]]

At the end of the day, does it all REALLY matter?!

 

Its a completely different game, and IMO better than UFO:EU. That is another argument for another time, but actually a decent argument to have.

 

This seems to be a rather nonsensical argument over two games that happen to have different values for damage etc. Its simply because there are so few names they could call things, so 'lasers' came up quite often.

 

Its similar to comparing another game to XCOM - their damage system would be different....

 

I accept that because the games follow on, there should be some moral obligation to keep things similar, but that probably just wasn't feasible as the games were made at differents times, probably by different people, and they had different objectives to fulfill. I personally prefer the removal of the one-shot kill, because although it is less realistic, it enhances gameplay considerably. In any case, you still easily lose men, if you are not careful.

 

Anyhow, all this has made me want to actually finish the game now, I would love to see the ending sequence...... I might have my nearly finished game, but IIRC I deleted all my savegames I got up to the 4th alien building and got bored

[Guest Azrael]

Hear hear

 

The ending sequence is pretty neat

 

Duh! everyone knows that Apocalypse is much better than UFO and TFTD, but some people just can't deal with it

[Sorrow]

I accept that because the games follow on, there should be some moral obligation to keep things similar, but that probably just wasn't feasible as the games were made at differents times, probably by different people, and they had different objectives to fulfill.  I personally prefer the removal of the one-shot kill, because although it is less realistic, it enhances gameplay considerably.  In any case, you still easily lose men, if you are not careful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And how it enhances gameplay?

Would you prefer to shot a cultist that has Heavy Launcher with UFO's Laser Rifle or with Apocalypse's Laser Sniper Rifle?

[[dipstick]]

That really is quite irrelevant to the game as a whole.

 

You do not have the option to use a weapon from UFO, thus it automatically is disqualified from any debate in my mind.

[Guest Azrael]

This is nonsense, you just can't compare two different games they are sequels but they are completely different programs, doesn't matter the storyline, they are two different games.

Why isn't my laser rifle in Unreal 2 as powerful as the M41A Pulse Rifle in Alien Vs Predator 2??

[[NKF]]

I'm not denying that it's like comparing pineapples with bananas. Indeed, there are no one-shot kills. There are however 1.5 shot kills. Try it with a power sword or devestator and a fully shielded alien.

 

But it's not about comparing the game mechanics of damage -vs- armour point for point between the two games. It's about why how the personal laser weapons, being quite effective before, have fallen in quality.

 

The excuse that they wanted to dumb down laser and plasma tech (the old technology) to make way for disrupter tech still holds true. I still like the idea of the laser sniper rifle being a low quality mass produced product.

 

The laser sniper rifle is now slow but accurate. Unfortunately, it's also incredibly weak. In fact, in that respect, it's no different from the standard rifle from UFO - only without a decent rapid fire mode for short range attacks. Well, okay, if you carry two and set them on auto, they're not that bad, but not as effective as, say, a Megapol Law Pistol on full auto.

 

As for comparing cityscape to battlescape weapon prices: Again, peanuts and guavas. "It doesn't have to make sense" is quite a good way of putting it, actually.

 

- NKF

Edited December 2, 2005 by NKF

[Sorrow]

I modded my X-com 3 to make weapons damage more like in Ufo .

[Pherdnut]

As it turned out, the old X-Com lasers emitted hazardous amounts of radiation. Switching to a power cell model made them safer, but weaker. Elerium is worth more than its weight in platinum. Once the true scarcity of elerium was understood after the mining expeditions began, nobody in their right mind would use a heavy plasma rifle as that would be akin to blowing hundreds of thousands of dollars with every shot. The modern plasma pistol isn't a refinement of plasma weaponry because it's actually more powerful, but rather because it's actually a decent weapon system that still manages to be cost effective. Same with blaster launchers. Heavy launchers don't use elerium so require a lot more space for the warhead, which required the implentation of a more space effective, but less advanced guidance system. Notice how the vehicles don't use elerium for fuel? Yes, plasma cannons do still use elerium, but in much lesser quantity than in the past. The elerium unit of today is only a fraction of the amount of the elerium units of yesterday's X-Com.

 

When the original invasion began, X-Com had total license to use whatever resources they deemed necessary. Now they've already got armor and pretty decent weaponry to handle these new guys. Sure, they're a threat but nowhere near as scary as the original sectoid menace, which constituted an all out global war. Consequently, the govs and corporate organizations aren't just going to throw elerium at them so they have one shot wonders that turn corners and rifles that can turn a tank into scrap metal. After all, most of these aliens don't even appear to be armed with equipment.

At first it really appeared to be more of a bug hunt than a tech vs. tech war.

 

I can explain anything!

 

Except maybe why anybody in their right mind would actually use that crappy laser rifle for killing anything other than rats and brainsuckers.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Pherdnut

[Exo2000]

I'm not denying that it's like comparing pineapples with bananas. Indeed, there are no one-shot kills. There are however 1.5 shot kills. Try it with a power sword or devestator and a fully shielded alien.

 

Try it with a Devastator and an unshielded alien.

 

THEN tell me there are no oneshot kills.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

A funny thing about aircraft engines in the game. Look at their images both in equipment screen, and especialy in UFOpedia.

Doesn't their design seem strange? Why do they look like traditional atmosphere jet engines of real aircraft? And why do they need those huge turbines in front of them? Those turbines are even more ridiculous, because those engines are supposed to work in space (Valkyrie is described as "capable of Solar System travel").

I think, an anti-grav engine must look, you know, more "anti-grav".

[Pherdnut]

Anti Grav is already built in. The engines just provide thrust. The engines could be an air/liquid fueled hybrid.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Well, that could probably count as an explaination. But still, there's no point in a turbine for an engine that is supposed to work in space.

[[NKF]]

Though the Valkyrie and Hawk may be capable of space flight, they still need something to propel them along while within the planet's gravitational field.

 

I imagine it uses the anti-gravs to propel it along in space, and when it enters the earth's atmosphere, the turbines are used to propel it along while the grav units keep it afloat. Hybrid engines anyone?

 

Personally, I think they're there just to make the engine look cool - I can certainly live with that explanation!

 

- NKF