Jump to content


Photo

Improving Relations With Organizations


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Bullet-Tooth Tony

Bullet-Tooth Tony

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:27 AM

It's known, that when you attack an organization (shoot down its vehicles or fire at buildings) in X-Com:Apocalypse, it indirectly affects your relations with everybody, depending on how they treat the organization your target belongs to. Whose realtions with your target are worse than neutral will improve relations with X-Com, those who are better than neutral, will like you less.
That's why some organizations become less friendly, when you shoot down UFO's (Transtellar, for instance) - it's because they are friendly to Aliens. And it is one of the most annoying features in this game.
You can change it in your favour: make Aliens damage some buildings (with their shots, not yours) and those organizations will hate the Aliens.
However, it's good in theory, not that easy in reality. Yes, Hoverbikes easily dodge Disruptor Beams, allowing them to hit city skyscrapers. But you can't control where UFOs are going to: if you want Aliens to hit Transtellar spaceport and an UFO is near it - good, but if it's in the other part of the city, bad luck - you can't do anything. The time an UFO is in the sky is limited - they simply go to a their target, drop troops, and then return to nearest Dimension Gate. What you've managed to do in this short period of time, is good for you, what you haven't - you will have to wait for another chance. Futhermore, some UFO's are very dangerous for your ships - especially those armed with missiles. It's a bad idea to try to make Aliens hit the buildings while they have Destroyers or Bombers- shoot them ASAP, or not show your nose out of the hangars.
So, what's the idea what to do with it? Make Cult of Sirius responsible for everything that's going wrong in the city! Make everybody hate the Cult as you do, and when somebody is somehow not happy with you, go and perform a public execution of some Cult's buildings/vehicles, and you'll be forgiven!
Instead of making Alien ships hit buildings, do the same with vehicles of a city's organization (CoS is a perfect candidate). With city vehicles your time is virtually unlimited, you can "summon" them any time you like. Their weapons are not as dangerous as UFO missiles. You can lead them to any building in the city.
Technically it's easier, but rather tedious, I'd say. Recently I've done some testing of this strategy.
Hits that don't destroy a building section don't seem to affect relations (not for X-Com, but for other organizations), or have a very small effect. Your goal is to make CoS hits do some visual damge. In terms of relation adjustment only damage to a single square matters, not the total amount of structures falling. So, a hit that razes the whole building is equal to a hit that destroys a single square.
When you hit a building, usually you'll get Hoverbikes and Hovercars as defenders. Bikes are armed with cannons, which are very innacurate, but won't do any damage to buildings, Phoenix's lasers actually can sometimes damage a building, but very unlikely. Finally, Phoenixes have Janitor missiles, which is probably the best bet. Janitors don't always damage structures, but after several attempts they'll occasionally do it.
What craft to use to attract Cult of Sirius fire? Hoverbikes are best for dodging enemy fire, but they are quickly destroyed, if some hits reach it. Phoenixes are OK dodgers, and can stand even several Janitor hits. Probably, a Phoenix Hovercar with a Missile Evasion Matrix is the best bet in the beginning of the game. Later a shielded Hovercar is ideal - stands a LOT of damage, and you don't need to repair. Hide in any building, when you've got too much damage, and CoS craft will go home.
Leading CoS craft to a building of a target organization and maneuvering near it may take some micro-control. Change altitude, set waypoints, use manual vehicle control, when needed. The AI doesn't seem to ever change altitude setting of its vehicles - they always go on 2nd lowest, and because of it AI craft has hard time hitting you, when you're right on top of a tall building. Park right over the roof of a tall building, they will hit you when firing from a distance, but once they're near, they will fly around, occasionally shooting at you, but missing 90% of the time (and that's what you need). With a shielded car it's safe - shields will recharge faster than they will damage you.
How many hits on a building is needed depends on initial relations between the Cult and the target organization. In my experience, 3-4 hits that damage a building is usually enough to make the org dislike the Cult.
After you've done this operation with all organizations you want, just go and shoot at some CoS temples, when you need to improve relations with somebody. Be aware that some orgs like the CoS by default, and will get less friendly with you, unless you "fix" their realtions.

#2 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:44 AM

The easiest relations to improve would probably be for those that have huge sprawling structures, like the slums and possibly even the apartments with suspended sections. The harder buildings would be the squat buildings with tough exteriors, like the two arms factories.

How about the dimension probe as a vehicle for attracting the sentinals? It's the fastest ship in the game, but I cannot vouch for its dodging ability. When you're close to the end of the game (where relations don't really matter anymore), a fully kitted annihlator would also work - you'd just have to make sure your shields hold out during the run. You'd just have to be sure your weapons are switched off. Or arm it with three missile defense modules. Manual control can be used to damage the cult buildings, and later on leave them on by default to shoot down any incoming janitor missiles. Again, it depends on how important it is to you to meddle with relations at that late a stage in the game.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#3 Bullet-Tooth Tony

Bullet-Tooth Tony

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 11 October 2006 - 02:12 AM

Haven't tried a Dimension Probe. Yes, it will probably dodge faster than a Hovercar, but a shielded Phoenix is more durable with its rechargeable 270 hitpoints (more than enough against Earth weapons). Also, DP doesn't have much uses - you'll have to build it specifically, while you could use one of the Hovercars you normally have. Dimension Probe is available pretty much at the same time as craft shields (early mid-game), maybe even shields earlier (you need time to build an Adv. Workshop to make Probes). In this case I'd still go for a shielded Hovercar. And upgrade its engine - it wouldn't hurt.
You can do this trick in the very beginning, with a unshielded Hovercar, though it's rather dangerous.
Annihilator? I think it doesn't provide anything extra for this technique. Huge target with low maneuverability. It has tough shields, but, in my experience, 270 hitpoints of a shielded Phoenix is enough with good control.
Defense modules will destroy missiles (which should have damaged a building) and probably hit buildings - you don't need it.
By the way, a weapon for a Hovercar - 1 small laser is fine, because it's not using ammo. You need it only to hit a CoS building once to "summon" the defending ships, all other time it's switched off.
What buildings to target - surprisingly, all buildings take pretty much the same time to get the job done. Haven't noticed a big difference between Slums and Factories. I recommend a tall building - it's really a useful trick to park over the roof near its edge - they try to shoot from below and usually hit the walls.
Don't forget, that chain reaction of falling structures don't count for realtions - only one hit to one square matters, wether it results in massive destruction or not.

#4 Aiki-Knight

Aiki-Knight

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 256 posts

Posted 19 October 2006 - 03:19 PM

What an interesting strategy. I've read people toy with it, but not as specifically as you. Which orgs are naturally sympathetic to the Cult?

#5 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:04 PM

As far as I can remember, none initially. They tend to build up their network of friends as the game progresses. But it couldn't hurt to start a brand new game and blast the cult buildings to bits and see if it ticks anyone off.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#6 Tkwiget

Tkwiget

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 27 November 2006 - 01:54 PM

Just a quick question about the organizations.

Is it a wise decision to ally with as many organizations as possible?

#7 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:54 PM

It cannot hurt to make as many allies as possible, however only a few organisations provide any actual benefits. These are mainly groups that provide you with staff, goods and vehicles. The others, like Nutrivend, the politcal groups, the schools, Sensovision, just to name a few, don't do anything.

Money is short at the start of the game (unless you go overkill with the raids or stun-raids), so you'll want to concentrate on making friends with only the organisations that give you any benefits. Sometimes the others will often ally with you automatically if you do something that they approve of. Megapol is the prime example here. Even if they don't start off as allied, but just as friendly or neutral, attacking the aliens, cultists or even gangs will cause them to like you. So there's no point in investing money in changing their opinion of you. Let it happen naturally. Just watch your organisation charts. If you do something that makes some companies move up a rank, do it some more.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#8 Tkwiget

Tkwiget

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 29 November 2006 - 08:20 AM

LOL, I actually allied with the gangs and have noticed my Agent recruitment pool increased quite a bit after a day.

Also, is it true (or even been tested) that if you leave an organization alone (like not raiding them) for a while that they'll regain whatever strength they lost from you raiding them to death? I noticed that after I stopped raiding CoS for a while that they seemed to regain some of their foot hold on having plenty of Agents to defend their buildings after about a week. Is that true or is it just something that's random?

I ask this because I remember raiding them like crazy with one full squad for Psiclones and other equipment to sell. After each raid I would save the game and then check to see if my best Agent could own CoS in a solo mission and ended up destroying them all single handedly.

Also about the equipment you recover after a raid. Is this determined by how much equipment is leftover from the enemies you killed and does Explosive and Incendiary weapons/ammo destroy the equipment that the enemy was carrying if you kill them with it?

#9 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:52 PM

No, the content of the maps are randomised. If you were to ever knock their funds into the negatives, you'd still find them heavily stocked with guards and equipment free for the taking. I have been told that the number of units you send in does influence the amount of enemies you face and the size of the map. I've never had this verified, but from what I've seen, it's can be quite variable as well.

As for equipment, well, anything left on the floor at the end of the mission is recoverable. With incendiaries, the equipment drops right into the fire the moment the unit dies, so items eventually get destroyed unless the flames are extinguished. With explosives, the killing blow doesn't usually destroy the equipment, but a subsequent explosion will.

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#10 Tkwiget

Tkwiget

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:08 PM

Alright, that's what my original assumtion of killing things with IE that drop items because I never run off through the flames to get the stuff. <_<