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Gutted Like A Fish


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#1 Guest_Guest_Dave_*_*

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 02:54 PM

OK here it is.
I played XCOM again about 2 years ago, I think it took me 7-8 months (game time) and about 3 weeks (real time) to finish it. The last months were just idling, I wanted to research everything and wipe out the last alien bases before I left for Cydonia. My bases rocked I didnt lose a single man until cydonia (damn mollecular control!!!).

So I thought I'd play TFTD as back in the day it was too frustratingly difficult and I never finished it. I got an old Pentium 1 150Mhz machine from a friend, underclocked the beast to 75Mhz and fired up windows 95. Then I was off. After overcoming the initial learning curve and keeping a my men alive to become gods of war, I started expanding and now have a full arrangement of bases, half of the listening posts with 8 PWT defences and the other half sub pens harbouring my men and churning out Gauss rifles to sell on the black market 24/7.
hard as I tried the alien colonies started to appear. I took the out, one by one, in the middle of the night. Then I read somewhere that I have to beat 12 alien artifact sites? This sounds a little long winded, Im already into september and have only found 2!
Anyways, my point is... last time I played I remembered having this blue aqua armour. It was weak protection but it did the trick. This time round all my aquanauts have flying turtle suits (mag ion armour?) and I still havent got the crap blue stuff. I started to get worried when almost everything was researched and I still had barracudas and the crippled old tritons. Then I read online just now that there is a bug where, if you dont research certain techs in order, you cant win the game or build new craft.
BUMMER!!! I get this feeling that all the toil of the past 3 weeks is for nothing. Im currently looking at this russian xcom fan's site who says he provides a dat files to put into a savegame directory which enables everything to be researched but it only takes 1 day... this to me sounds like a cheat and I wanted to beat the game fair and square. It is a lot more challenging than XCOM1 and even Apocalypse.
Does anyone know of a different workaround that works without cheating?
I only hope that the options will become availible for the missing techs when I research the only things left - a few dead aliens and a lot of live ones.
If I have to delete it unfinished I'll never look at another xcom game again.

#2 jedandjess

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:20 PM

as a side note...
I read that part of the research problem comes from researching a commander too early in the game. I think this happened to me, I nabbed a commander from an early (gill man I think) supply ship and got the ultimate threat research done almost in the first month of game time.
to counteract this, I just raided a lobster man colony and sent a blaster bomb down to take out the control centre where the lobster bigwigs hang. Then I popped a thermal shock bomb down there and floated down, put the commander in my rucksack and floated back up before they could stop me. So I capture 1 live lobsta commander and hopefully researching him will let me research the missing stuff (alien subs, aqua plastics etc).

I wish this game was 2 player over the net like the old laser squad on the 8bits (alien vs human 2 player)

#3 NKF

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:45 PM

If you were able to get mag ion armour before getting plastic aqua armour, then you're playing without the v2 patch. This shouldn't stop you getting to the end. The prerequisites for the Manta are Sub Construction and Mag Ion Armour.

Once you've applied the tftdv2 update for the game, you need to get the Plastic Aqua Armour and the Ion Armour before you can get Mag. Ion Armour. This is where research order is important.

First of all, in order to get Plastic Aqua Armour, you need a Deep One Corpse. This gives you aqua plastics. Researching that will lead you to Plastic Aqua Armour and its fishbowl helmety goodness.

You then need to get the Ion Beam Accelerators (prior to the tftdv2 patch you needed a Lobsterman Navigator - this is no longer necessary) and THEN research a live Deep-One to get the Ion Armour. Do Magnetic Navigation after this to properly upgrade it to Mag. Ion Armour. In some versions of the game, the Deep-One will not re-appear on the research after researching it. So if you don't get it right the first time, you'll never get to play the end-game.

The Lobsterman Commander on the other hand is more lenient. If you missed out on some research the first time around, all you need to do is to capture another and interrogate it again.

The trick to researching the lobsterman commander is to research it AFTER one or more of the following:

Hammerhead (To get the Leviathan)
The Ultimate Threat (to get T'Leth The Alien's City)
Alien Origins (To get the above - note, this step can be substituted with a Lobsterman Navigator)

A few other niggling bits that you need to remember:

M.C. Reader - if you want to get M. C. technology, make sure that you have one of these in storage when completing research on the M. C.-Lab or else you'll only have the lab for the rest of the game.

Sub Construction - make sure you have one of these store items in storage when completing the final prerequisite for the Sub Construction research project. That being Zrbite and the Transmission Resolver. It's half of the tech required to get the Manta.

Tasoth Commander - researching this before getting the Leviathan will stop you from getting the Leviathan.

There are some updates out there that fix the first two bugs, but it pays to be careful nonetheless. The Tasoth Commander is not a legal alien that should be met, but it can still be created from time to time under unusual circumstances. It may appear for research in earlier versions of the game, but since the v2 update, it stops appearing on the research list. If you ever get it, ignore it until you are able to launch the T'Leth mission from your Leviathans.

- NKF
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#4 jedandjess

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 04:11 PM

If you were able to get mag ion armour before getting plastic aqua armour, then you're playing without the v2 patch. This shouldn't stop you getting to the end. The prerequisites for the Manta are Sub Construction and Mag Ion Armour. 

Once you've applied the tftdv2 update for the game, you need to get the Plastic Aqua Armour and the Ion Armour before you can get Mag. Ion Armour. This is where research order is important.

First of all, in order to get Plastic Aqua Armour, you need a Deep One Corpse. This gives you aqua plastics. Researching that will lead you to Plastic Aqua Armour and its fishbowl helmety goodness.

You then need to get the Ion Beam Accelerators (prior to the tftdv2 patch you needed a Lobsterman Navigator - this is no longer necessary) and THEN research a live Deep-One to get the Ion Armour. Do Magnetic Navigation after this to properly upgrade it to Mag. Ion Armour. In some versions of the game, the Deep-One will not re-appear on the research after researching it. So if you don't get it right the first time, you'll never get to play the end-game.

The Lobsterman Commander on the other hand is more lenient. If you missed out on some research the first time around, all you need to do is to capture another and interrogate it again.

The trick to researching the lobsterman commander is to research it AFTER one or more of the following:

Hammerhead (To get the Leviathan)
The Ultimate Threat (to get T'Leth The Alien's City)
Alien Origins (To get the above - note, this step can be substituted with a Lobsterman Navigator)

A few other niggling bits that you need to remember:

M.C. Reader - if you want to get M. C. technology, make sure that you have one of these in storage when completing research on the M. C.-Lab or else you'll only have the lab for the rest of the game.

Sub Construction - make sure you have one of these store items in storage when completing the final prerequisite for the Sub Construction research project. That being Zrbite and the Transmission Resolver. It's half of the tech required to get the Manta.

Tasoth Commander - researching this before getting the Leviathan will stop you from getting the Leviathan.

There are some updates out there that fix the first two bugs, but it pays to be careful nonetheless. The Tasoth Commander is not a legal alien that should be met, but it can still be created from time to time under unusual circumstances. It may appear for research in earlier versions of the game, but since the v2 update, it stops appearing on the research list. If you ever get it, ignore it until you are able to launch the T'Leth mission from your Leviathans.

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



NKF thanks for the quick reply. Looks like I'll be spending some time on this forum im just gutted that i only just found it.

So far, so crap. I havent researched the lobster commander yet as I only just got him, so thats cool. I researched the MCLab and built them, but Im sure I had a reader or two but I havent been able to get the MC thing that lets u use mind control! Maybe I havent researched the right corpse/live alien?? I havent encountered a Tsaoth commander as they came into the game late and usually die from a heavy plasma. I kill everything unless I want to take it alive usually (throw a grenade in on a downed alien). So ... I have researched everything except dead and live aliens and the heavy gauss, and I still have no new subs and no MC stuff except the lab. I also havent been able to research aqua plastics but I have researched zrbite. Can you tell me if I have a bug problem or not? and if you can be bothered and I'll understand if you cant, how do I fix this save cheating?

again man thanks for the reply.

These games are so addictive but they always let me down. for example, the third or fourth and final time I played xcom 3, I had it down. Superhuman level, and I didnt let a single UFO survive. I had Osiron and Psyke crying for mercy, every important organisation was in my pocket, and I had about 9 of the best fighting craft with all the best guns. Id go solo on missions and wipe everything out. Then I finally went through the dimension gates and started ripping them apart. Then my HD went down and I lost the save games. Never went back to it then. Just hope this one dosent do the same I want to play it later and see if I can finish it.

cheers again

PS> if u HAVE an MCreader but havent researched it prior to the MClab will that mess things up, or is researching the reader a prerequesite to the lab itself?

Edited by jedandjess, 24 February 2006 - 04:14 PM.


#5 NKF

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:40 AM

No, you only need to have the MC reader in storage.

Once you complete research on the lab, only then will the MC Reader become available for research. After you research that, you can move on to the MC Disrupter (the mind control thingymajig) and then you can get the MC Generator aqua pod for your base.

If you've completed research on the lab without an MC Reader in storage, you're in the same boat as I was when I first completed the game. You won't be able to further your MC research. Ever. This was actually a good thing in my case, as it made my second romp through the game all the more satisfying (TFTD was my introduction to the X-Com world, see). You'll have to restart the game or load a savegame made prior to completing research on the M.C.-Lab.

By the way, the same applies for Sub Construction. Just keep some in storage at the research base at all times and you'll do fine.

As for your aqua plastics problem - hmm. Seek ye a Deep One Corpse. While you're at it, capture a live one as well if you haven't. Hold off on interrogating it until you've done the plastic aqua armour and the Ion Beam Accelerators.

Goodness knows why, but Deep Ones are the key to a huge part of your research. You may have a bit of trouble finding these aliens, as they only show up in Gillman terror sites. The gillmen appear early and tend to go scarce for a while. They eventually make a comeback later on. If you're super patient, you can even go so far as to wait until you meet the 'mixed' crews. Personally, I'd rather start over. I lack the patience. ;)

If you choose to start over and get everything right the first time, I'd recommend that you first look for the TFTDv2 patch and have your game updated. I've actually seen mention of a v2.1 patch out there, but I don't know whether it's an official patch. But worth a look nonetheless.

- NKF
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#6 Oldblue153

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:36 PM

Jed I've seen that site that provides the dat files n lemme tell you that had it been around the first few times I played TFTD n got stopped because of a "programming glitch" I surely woulda used it.
The game wasn't designed (purposely) to stop you dead in your tracks cause you researched something out of order or researched a tsoth commander, so if you have filled all the pre-requisits and are being stopped for no other reason than poor programming than its not a cheat to "fix" it.
There are plenty of research Trees and Glitch guides around the net so look em up n see if its impossible to complete something or to continue to the end of the game even ..if not than I say USE THE DAMNED THING...call it a patch if it makes you feel better and ask yourself this question ...had Microprose released that same DAT file as a patch would you be having the same moral dilemna?

PS I tested out those DAT files on both new and an old save game file n it appeared to have worked just fine giving me anything or everything or any combination at any time.

#7 jedandjess

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:27 AM

excellent news then.

Looks like I'll give it a try, that patch. I really want to just finish the game starting again is not an option I've put way too much into the game, and you know yourselves its the hardest part to begin the game and get through the first terror missions. Thanks for the replys you told me exactly wot i needed to know.

cheers

#8 jedandjess

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:36 AM

i have an idea. i could maybe send u a savegame of the point im up to in the game and you could look at the research options and tell me the score? Also if my save isnt compatible with your game version I could send u this version of the game. I will find out what version I have now (or try to - i gather it tells you in the readme file).

what do you think?

#9 jedandjess

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 01:02 AM

PS I tested out those DAT files on both new and an old save game file n it appeared to have worked just fine giving me anything or everything or any combination at any time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



By the way Oldblue ... if I install the patched dat file, will the research be finished for all the checked technologies or does it just mean they are availible for research? the sites description is ambiguous on that.

#10 Oldblue153

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:00 AM

No it will not be done.
When you reload your game all your scientists will be available and not working on anything and the projects you selected will now be seen as if you started research but allocated 0 scientists to the task. So simply re-allocate them to the project by increasing the number from 0 to whatever you choose.

Also the 1 day thing is false and misleading it takes as long as it normally would taking into account the number of scientists allocated to the project etc with the possible exception that the selected dat file project progress is always listed as unknown.
** unknown, poor, good, being the three most common random starting points and it does make a difference as unknown takes the longest but i'm sure you already know that :)

#11 Oldblue153

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:30 AM

Jed one more thing you asked about those Alien Artifact sites ..as far as I know ya dont need to do all 12 matter of fact ive heard that doing all 12 still nets you a 13th if you continue playing..perhaps it was an idea that was abandoned and never removed from the original programming.

Question fer NFK

You mentioned the 2.0 patch and restarting the game...is it nescessary to restart to apply the patch or will the patch work on games already in progress?

Asking cause mines unpatched and going along at a nice clip n man Ide hate to restart TFTD for like the 10th time in 10 years heh ( closest I got was researching the Levithon ,all that was needed to go to Tleth had almost 2 years game time and mebbe 500 missions done when my PC died ughhhhhhhhhh).

#12 NKF

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:05 PM

I don't know who NFK is, or when he's going to answer that question, so I'll answer the question instead. ;)

You don't have to restart the game for the patch to take effect. However, your old savegame will carry over any damage to the researcch tree the unpatched game did to it, so if you never got the MC Reader the first time, you won't get it in the patched version without editing the game. Still, it always pays to check your research and see if they do become available. You never know.

Of course, I'd also suggest using a savegame editor to fix your research. No sense in wasting all your work. You deserve that much at least for your efforts up to that point. Basically research as much as you can until there's nothing left, then use a game editor, like XComUtil or some other editor to add all the remainig research.

I myself find the starting and mid portion of the game to be the best part of the game. But it's easy for me to say that because I've played the end-game mission a few times, got disappointed with it and have got it out of my system. ;)

Speaking of the artefact sites: Don't believe much of what you can read in the ufopaedia. Trust me, just don't. Read it, absorb it, but don't expect it to actually apply to the game. The artefact sites don't have any limit. They'll just keep appearing one after the other, just like the colonies.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 26 February 2006 - 11:07 PM.

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#13 Oldblue153

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:48 PM

Thank-you N-K-F :)

#14 jedandjess

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:16 AM

Fellas and ladies

I've posted the x-com 2 saves from my game in the savegame forum for tftd if you might be able to take a look and see if I've f**ked up the research :)

Also there is the saves from my last x-com 1 game about 6 months ago, just to show off my l33t base setups.

Both games are dos versions, dont know if that makes a difference... UFO is 1.4 (I think) not too sure what version TFTD is but it's the Dos 1.44" floppy version (I think).

Cheers

PS. Get yourselves on UFO2000 pls!! Been to the server about 50 times and theres never anyone there. Not that I know how to play it mind.



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