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Homebrew Xeniem


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#1 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 02:46 PM

if my memory serves me well i beleve you can create new eliments whith a suppercolider so why not make your own xeniem whith a suppercolider
oviesly you couldent fit a suppercolider in you base but you could borow one from a country and make xeniem this would be slow and expensive and would requier more reaserch however

#2 PopeBij

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 03:52 PM

Thats a really cool idea. Pay x number of money to make one unit of xeniem. It could be cool. For those who are really really desperate for the stuff. But then again It would take the need of hunting for it in ships out of the game. Unless it was super super costly

#3 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:28 PM

it would be expensive and s...l...o...w (each colision produses a microscopic amount but if you desprite)

#4 dipstick

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:35 PM

hey, if you need those plasma cannons..... but it would have to be about $1000/unit or something
Posted Image

#5 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 06:01 PM

and take 48+ howers per unit

#6 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 05:30 AM

Unless I am mistaken, it already takes 10s of milllions of dollars and months just to make microscopic amounts of normal elements. Xenium will likely be even tougher to make.

Also, you'd be introducing many other people to the top secret stuff that X-Corps deals with. Not everyone is qualified to handle that sort of top secret stuff. Using a huge, heavily staffed facility to produce an incredible power source would be difficult to keep under wraps.

I think it'd be better to get the Xenium from the aliens.

Edited by Robo Dojo 58, 18 August 2004 - 05:31 AM.

Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#7 Paladin

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:43 AM

Yeah, the price tag would be absolutely enormous, something like 100 Millions$ for a microgram, or 1/1000th of unit... Do the math...
(And it would take years)
Even then, that's ASSUMING we can potentially make the damn thing in the first place... Making atoms individually is one thing, but remember those heavier particles disintegrate spontaneously by radio-activity in a few microseconds, hence we may never be able to make a sufficient amount to stabilise it...
Then again, it's Sci-fi, and I think the whole point of it is to make it clear that we can't reproduce all the alien's equipment...

Oh, Btw, why not have a floater autopsy mandatory for the Flying suit... it makes sense, they are grafted with the equivalent...
It would be cool IMO :D
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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#8 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:57 AM

Even then, that's  ASSUMING we can potentially make the damn thing in the first place... Making atoms individually is one thing, but remember those heavier particles disintegrate spontaneously by radio-activity in a few microseconds,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


if you read the xnet about xeniem it says xeniem is in a "island of stabilaty" and how do you think the aliens make it

and about the top secret stuff you dount have to tell the scientests what thay are making
or who thay are making it for

#9 centurion

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:12 AM

if you read the xnet about xeniem it says xeniem is in a "island of stabilaty" and how do you think the aliens make it

and about the top secret stuff you dount have to tell the scientests what thay are making
or who thay are making it for

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just because Xenium is a stable element, it isn't synthetized easily; when nuclei are collided with each other, the resulting nucleus usually has enough energy from the kinetic energy of the "parts" to produce particles right away, changing its atomic number/weight.

Oh come on, those scientists would get per-person sealed instructions and silence obligations? Even then lots of them will inevitably know what is it they are synthetizing, and that's enough to have problems.
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#10 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 09:56 AM

if you read the xnet about xeniem it says xeniem is in a "island of stabilaty" and how do you think the aliens make it?

I think the aliens make it with technology that's a thousand years or more ahead of our own. They could be manipulating properties of matter that we don't even know exist.

And about the "island of stability"... that doesn't mention the lava pits, gator traps, and life-or-death puzzles you have to pass to get to that island. ^_^ Just because it's stable, it doesn't mean you know how the aliens got there.

Oh come on, those scientists would get per-person sealed instructions and silence obligations? Even then lots of them will inevitably know what is it they are synthetizing, and that's enough to have problems.

"I want you to make this ultra-powerful material which is a dozen times more powerful than a hydrogen bomb. It's for national security, so tell no one about it." I suspect there may be problems with that. :wink:
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#11 Paladin

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 12:26 PM

Yep, I agree with Robo and Centurion...
Besides, there's a lot more to making a crystaline material, which structure could be the very key to the material's stability...
You can't just make individual atoms and throw them togheter, that would make only radioactive dust...
Besides, Diamond and Graphite are both made of almost pure carbon, but one is so fragile it makes pencil leads (which actually have no lead in them, they just mix various quantities of clay...), a VERY brittle substance while diamond is the hardest material we know...
The difference??
Their crystaline structure is very different, the carbon atoms are strongly bonded in weakly tied layers in graphite... In Diamond, they are tighly packed in a 3-dimensional grid...
That crystaline structure is achieved naturally deep inside volcanoes, where the magma's extreme pressures and temperatures concentrate enough carbon, and they have to cool down extremely slowly to make diamonds, the slower the bigger... We can now make artificial diamonds, small and bad-looking but still usefull for industrial applications (think extremely cutting tools, or diamond abrasive).
Still, about 4-5 years back, they were able to make the extraordinary feat of making a tiny super-diamond made with the C-60 molecule (it's structure is identical to a small Football (Soccer for US & Can) ball...

SO, in summarry, having a bunch of atoms does not make a material.

Talk about it to the guys who try to build up super-hot (compared to -150C) superconductors, by laying one layer of atoms on top of each other... takes a heck of a time... They have to put the atoms one by one with a tunnel-effect Microscope... Months to make a micron long strip...


THEN, HOW CAN THESE ALIENS DO IT??
You'd think we would not need getting those UFO power sources intact if we knew that... As it was said, their technology is millions of years more advanced, and for all we know they could have access to supercolliders the size of a planet, or they could just mine it near a black hole for all I know... :D

Edited by Paladin, 18 August 2004 - 12:30 PM.

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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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#12 centurion

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 01:07 PM

[...]In Diamond, they are tighly packed in a 3-dimensional grid...
That crystaline structure is achieved naturally deep inside volcanoes, where the magma's extreme pressures and temperatures concentrate enough carbon, and they have to cool down extremely slowly to make diamonds, the slower the bigger... [...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A lil' rectification: diamonds form at high temperature and/or pressure because that's when their structure is energetically "better" than graphite's, not because they are denser.
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#13 Paladin

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 01:20 PM

[...]In Diamond, they are tighly packed in a 3-dimensional grid...
That crystaline structure is achieved naturally deep inside volcanoes, where the magma's extreme pressures and temperatures concentrate enough carbon, and they have to cool down extremely slowly to make diamonds, the slower the bigger... [...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A lil' rectification: diamonds form at high temperature and/or pressure because that's when their structure is energetically "better" than graphite's, not because they are denser.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are right, I merely pointed out that it's the temperature that allows rock to be molten, hence allowing liquid carbon to agregate in sufficient liquid concentration and form something else than graphite, or coal for that matter... (even if it's organic in origin, it's still mostly carbon)
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#14 Moriarty

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 02:06 PM

Besides, there's a lot more to making a crystaline material, which structure could be the very key to the material's stability...



Paladin has an interesting point there. In classical physics (by which I mean "current knowledge", including the more complex quantum physics dealing with strings and branes, if you are into that sort of stuff), the super-atomic structure of a material actually does not have any effect on the subatomic structure.

clear text: a radioactive nucleus cannot be stabilized from the outside. chemical reactions, temperature, magnetics, gravity have zero effect. that's why absolute zero temperature is quite impossible: there's always some nuclei decaying and releasing energy in the process.

...but since this is science fiction, perhaps this is exactly the kind of thing we need for explaining xenium? the element is stable BECAUSE of its molecular structure. in some (inexplicable) way, the neighboring atoms' presence stabilizes the thing, and that's precisely why we are unable to synthesize it: you have to have a certain amount in a certain structure, or it will all just decay in a matter of nanoseconds.

there could be an interesting fluff text about some scientists theoreticizing about "resonant quantum fluctuations", "nuclear interference waves" or "atoms magically influencing each other" ;)




P.S. by the way, and not intending to make fun of anyone, I love the idea of a "suppercollider". :D

Edited by Moriarty, 20 August 2004 - 02:08 PM.

I doubt, therefore I might be.

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#15 centurion

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 02:47 AM

In classical physics (by which I mean "current knowledge", including the more complex quantum physics dealing with strings and branes, if you are into that sort of stuff), the super-atomic structure of a material actually does not have any effect on the subatomic structure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Current knowledge does (should?) NOT include the superstrings theory, as it's not supported by experimental results.

that's why absolute zero temperature is quite impossible: there's always some nuclei decaying and releasing energy in the process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zero temperature is impossible for other reasons, and, for example, protons are stable to my knowledge (experiments show half-life of at least 10^35 s). Besides, releasing energy in, say, neutrinos won't heighten the temperature in reasonable amounts of matter.

...but since this is science fiction, perhaps this is exactly the kind of thing we need for explaining xenium? the element is stable BECAUSE of its molecular structure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I definitely feel unease at the notion of using bad physics background; if it's not possible to create the effects we want consistently with what we know, let's make it depend (get broken) on principles as far from the reach of an average user as possible. That you cannot influence in aforementioned ways the radioactive decay caused by the weak force seems like something lots of people might realize instantly, which isn't good.

P.S. by the way, and not intending to make fun of anyone, I love the idea of a "suppercollider".  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad a certain government *stares intensely* closed down the SSC project :crying:
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#16 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 06:08 AM

That you cannot influence in aforementioned ways the radioactive decay caused by the weak force seems like something lots of people might realize instantly, which isn't good.

Naw, it seems pretty logical that the aliens figured out to bottle it, and we can't. We can't mess around with the weak force to our advantage, but who says the alien's couldn't? :D
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#17 Paladin

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 07:45 AM

[quote name='Moriarty' date='Aug 20 2004, 05:12 PM']
[quote]
...but since this is science fiction, perhaps this is exactly the kind of thing we need for explaining xenium? the element is stable BECAUSE of its molecular structure. in some (inexplicable) way, the neighboring atoms' presence stabilizes the thing, and that's precisely why we are unable to synthesize it: you have to have a certain amount in a certain structure, or it will all just decay in a matter of nanoseconds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]
My point exactly :D

Oh, and even if superstring theory is'nt validated by experimentation YET, it does'nt mean that it's false... :naughty:
It's matehmatically proven, wich simply means that it's possible.
It's also the first (and only) serious shot we had to the fabled Unification Theory... :Blush:

Then again, this is a game, and Sci-Fi can go a long way to explain it, if we do the Technobabble correctly. :blink:
An judging by this post, I think lots of people here would be more than willing to help with that, if we don't kill each other in the ensuing argument... :cussing: :huh?: :idea: :beer: :D
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#18 centurion

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:17 AM

Oh, and even if superstring theory is'nt validated by experimentation YET, it does'nt mean that it's false... :naughty:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, but you don't call such things classical.

It's matehmatically proven, wich simply means that it's possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who proved what? You mean it's a consistent mathematical model (which is a prerequisite for a qumquat to be a theory)?

It's also the first (and only) serious shot we had to the fabled Unification Theory...  :Blush:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, as I see it, every time it is the last theory to emerge that's "the only serious one" ...

An judging by this post, I think lots of people here would be more than willing to help with that, if we don't kill each other in the ensuing argument...  :cussing: :huh?: :idea:  :beer:  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:laser: :boxing: :flame: :plasma: :bash: :uzzi2: :explode:
WHAT argument?
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#19 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 07:02 AM

Exactly, the latest CONSISTENT theory is always the best, because it's teh only one we have that might explain and PREDICT real-world events, and the scientific method infers that once accepted, it's true until proven otherwise...

Then again, you don't see me complaining... O:)
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#20 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 07:10 AM

ok maby if a suppercolider doesint work tan maby just find out how thel aliens do it and emulate that

#21 Paladin

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 12:31 PM

ok maby if a suppercolider doesint work tan maby just find out how thel aliens do it and emulate that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the point, and we'v been using supercolliders for 40 years now, and we barely scratched the surface of what they can tell us ^_^
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"