[stewart] Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 I'm not sure this would nessessarily be a post v1 thing. Has there been any thought about creating the aliens language for "atmosphere". I'd like to have a crack at creating the alien writing; I've come up with something really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 I've been thinking about it for Alien Origins. How do they interrogate the first Alien with no Psi? cracking their language probably, but someone asked, do all the different Alien species have the same language? (those which can speak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Safe to say the aliens are: 1 ) efficient2 ) under one government I think it is reasonable that the aliens use one script. The script I've come up with is purely phonetic so you can do "english" alien, spanish "alien", etc. as long as the sounds can be represented. Here's what the word Xenocide looks like in "English" Alien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 that looks cool. and very alien  with all that psi tech the aliens use, maybe they really abandoned writing stuff? or perhaps it is only used by higher-ranking aliens? I always imagined the basic alien soldier to be very much un-educated, because they are genetically designed and bred to be soldiers... not philosophers. The way I get it, there is no real "society" in the aliens that attack earth, just a very simple command structure that branches down from the "Overmind" on mars. The last thing the overmind would want is free-thinking aliens. the script could be a remnant of the time before the overmind, but in that case it would probably be forbidden to keep lowly alien grunts from getting too smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 that looks cool. and very alien  with all that psi tech the aliens use, maybe they really abandoned writing stuff? or perhaps it is only used by higher-ranking aliens? I always imagined the basic alien soldier to be very much un-educated, because they are genetically designed and bred to be soldiers... not philosophers. The way I get it, there is no real "society" in the aliens that attack earth, just a very simple command structure that branches down from the "Overmind" on mars. The last thing the overmind would want is free-thinking aliens. the script could be a remnant of the time before the overmind, but in that case it would probably be forbidden to keep lowly alien grunts from getting too smart <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree with some of those points, but written language would probably still be needed, i.e. to label down which button is "take off" and which one is "self-destruct" in the Terror Ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."Â Let's not forget the fact that Mutons communicate using an intricate system of dances, jumps and twirls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubby Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 wouldn't understanding there language also be needed to use items like the mind probe because even thoughts are based on your native language tubby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mad] Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 wouldn't understanding there language also be needed to use items like the mind probe because even thoughts are based on your native language tubbyNot necessarily. Maybe not words, but abstracts are transmitted. Like, you think of a chair not as the word "chair" (although you know what the word "chair" means - at least I hope so ) but as an abstract, as lets say some kind of picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Eugh, that's absurdly complicated and farfetched. About how do Morlocks communicate, it is not really important how they communicated, they are in the grasp of the Overmind and are obviously "teached" the creature's language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 actually, I dont think it's that far-fetched or complicated. if I had access to psionic technology and wanted to build easy-to-operate machinery, that is EXACTLY what I would do. okay, not with a voice, but if you had buttons that make you "feel" their purpose, that would be perfect. you run your hands over the controls and push the button that feels like "forward", and the ship goes forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Eugh, that's absurdly complicated and farfetched.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Â Yeah, but you don't like anything I suggest <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Â Untrue, you spent one single day at the CTD, and your posts weren't precisely numerous to say I don't like anything you suggest. Â actually, I dont think it's that far-fetched or complicated. if I had access to psionic technology and wanted to build easy-to-operate machinery, that is EXACTLY what I would do. okay, not with a voice, but if you had buttons that make you "feel" their purpose, that would be perfect. you run your hands over the controls and push the button that feels like "forward", and the ship goes forward.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Â I think that'd be excessively complicated for things that could be solved by simply labeling stuff Plus, AFAIK psionic needs a creature to use the powers, is the Overmind going to be telling all its troops what button does what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) Okay here's a nice sample. The text is: "Many millions of years ago the planet you call Mars was alive. This life was brought to a barren planet by our civilisation as it was to yours. For millions of years we have visited your planet and genetically developed your species. You cannot kill us; you are part of us... Here is the centre of Martian civilisation - the pyramids built millions of years before yours - by a species that is your ancestor. No planet is beyond our reach. This power could be yours before long. All we ask is your co-operation..." Sound familiar? Anyway here it is in "Alien".  One interesting thing about it is that since it is completely phonetic the possibility of accents are there. For example, the word species; they way I pronounce it is: "Spee Sheeze", some will pronounce it "Spee Seeze". So my "accent" comes through. In fact then this script can be language neutral. You can use the same script to write in say spanish. This can be an answer if we want more than one written language. The phonomic elemental symbols are constant but their use varies. It's just like the roman alphabet being used by many languages. EXPLATION OF THE SYMBOLS REPRESENTING THE SOUNDS Here are the elemental sounds of English. BTW I have a middle-american accent (the one on American TV) so the sounds are based on that accent. ah like sha na naaw like sawaa like hato like hot (this sound is half way between ah and aw)b like bobp like pauld like dogt like tomy like yese like eagereh like metg like grassk like cath like henryhw like whalekh like chanuka or the french "R" you know the throat clearing noise that a lot of other languages haveih like situh like toughzh like fusionsh like shut upl like well likem like miken like normanng like sing or thinkr like runer like earthrr the rolled "R"th(1) like thenth(2) like thinw like woodew like twooo like bookv like victorf like frankz like zebras like sam there are also double letter soundst + sh = ch like churchd + zh = j like jackk + s = x like axeeh + e = ay like sayah + e = iy like eyeuh + ew = oh like snowah + ew = ow like plough there are triple letter soundsuh + ew + e = oh + e = oy like toyuh + ew + er = oh + er = or like oar these multiple letter sounds do not receive there own characters but are built from the characters represent the constituent sounds. We'll now list the sounds again and map them to a diminshed roman alphabet by the use of accent markings A = ah like sha na naA* = aw like sawA- = aa like hato like hot (this sound is half way between ah and aw) is not represent the user simply picks A or A* at their discretion and the reader decodes it by context.(see footnote)B = b like bobB- = p like paulD = d like dogD- = t like tomE* = y like yesE = e like eagerE- = eh like metG = g like grassG- = k like catH = h like henryH* = hw like whaleH- = kh like chanuka or the french "R" you know the throat clearing noise that a lot of other languages haveI = ih like sitI- = uh like tough, ih and uh are not really related but are mapped to the same letter anyway. (see footnote)J = zh like fusionJ- = sh like shut upL = l like well likeM = m like mikeN = n like normanN- = ng like sing or thinkR* = r like runR = er like earthR- = rr the rolled "R"T = th(1) like thenT- = th(2) like thinU* = w like woodU = ew like twoU- = oo like bookV = v like victorV- = f like frankZ = z like zebraZ- = s like sam Footnote: I wanted to ensure only 16 letters in the alphabet Reviewing we haveABDEGHIJLMNRTUVZusing -ABDEGHIJ NRTUVZusing *AEHRU Regarding most consenants the one without - are voiced. Whereas - is the same consenant but whispered. ie B=P D=T G=K CH=J TH=TH V=F S=Z etc.Regarding most vowels with * the one with the * is a very short version of the one without. ie Y=E R=ER W=EWOther accent have no pnumontic scheme behind them they are by-definition mapping. Anyway the letters can be arranged in a 4x4 matrix: ABDEGHIJLMNRTUVZ a similar 4x4 matrix of bent lines can be made  So the letters are simple mapped from one to the other Letters using - are handled similarly. Since these characters have open space inside them the accent goes inside the character  Letters using * are handled similarly with a dot  Explantion of the glyphs to follow soon EXPLATION OF THE RULES FOR BUILDING THE GLYPHS Letters can be arranged in one of three ways1 ) as a continuous string of letters2 ) grouped into words3 ) grouped into syllables A continuous string of letters is difficult to read. Grouped as words is how nearly all languages on earth work. The glyph therefore are syllables. Chinese, Korean, and Japanese group their writing into syllables, so this kind of arrangement will be more familiar to our members from these places. In particular the system used here is inspired by the Korean writing system. This diagram shows the arrangements of the letters into the glyphs. This diagram is made to show all possible situations. Any particular glyph may only use some of the indicated spots in the glyph. Whatever the outcome the glyph must be arranged into a square area matching the other glyphs in size. The heart of every syllable is a vowel sound. The spots A1, A2, and A3 are filled depending on whether the vowel is a one, two, or three letter vowel (note: there is only one three letter vowel "oy", uh-ew-e, "or" uh-ew-er is handled differently). The B spot contains a consenant. If after the vowel sound there is one consenant and if the consenant is either: {L, M, N, N-, R, or R-} then they are placed here. If the syllable ends in a cluster of consenants then the very first consenant goes here. The C1 spot contains a consenant. If after the vowel sound there is one consenant and if the consenant is none of: {L, M, N, N-, R, or R-} then it is placed here. If the syllable ends in a cluster of consenants then the subsequent consenants take the C2 to Cn spots as required. The D1 spot contains a consenant. If the syllable begins with only one consenant it goes here. The D2 spot is the consenant before the D1 consenant and is used if:1 ) D1 is either: {L, R-, or R*} and D2 is either: {B, B-, D, D-, G, or G-} or2 ) D2 and D1 are either: D J or D- J-. The E1 through En spots contain the cluster of consenants at the start of the syllable up until the consenant or consentants in the D spot or spots. Explantion of the rules for concatenating characters within the glyph to follow. Edited November 19, 2005 by stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Blehm 98] Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 If you want to you could give the more important alien races (etherials and sectoids) there own language and writing too. It would have to be the same as the Star Wars system of writing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 If you want to you could give the more important alien races (etherials and sectoids) there own language and writing too. It would have to be the same as the Star Wars system of writing though<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't know what system is that and don't understand why it'd be the same. But there is no reason for it, it's logical that the written language the Aliens use is the Overmind's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Blehm 98] Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 You'd think that leader races would keep their own languages, i always assumed the overmind took control recently, not was always in power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 You'd think that leader races would keep their own languages, i always assumed the overmind took control recently, not was always in power<{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's because you haven't read Alien Goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATeX Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I admire your work a lot and would be a great bonus on the game as an easter egg or similar. I don't think I'll find that fault tough, too little time to learn the language.  cheers, Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 EXPLANTATION OF THE CREATION OF THE LIGATURES WITHIN A GLYPH The simple rule is if the interface between two characters within a glyph matches then you can join them together, as long as clarity isnt lost. It is not required that you join them; you can leave the character separate. Reason to create the ligatures are: ( 1 ) you save strokes, ( 2 ) it gives you more room within the glyph to work with ( 3 ) the glyph look better with the ligatures. In the first column you can see the words: eye, earth, and see. The glyphs on the left show the characters separate the glyphs on the right shopw how they are connected. The second column shows that when two characters are joined together to create a new concatenated character a third may be joined together if the interfaces match. In the second column you the words: that and fire. Notice how they can be concatenated. The third column shows how you can bend the concatenation rule slightly. In the word "no" you can see the short horizontal line for the "n" would normally go half way across. Since in this case what is important is that the stroke is short you are allowed to foreshorten it to allow the attachment to the "uh" character with no loss of clarity. For the word "Mow" the short stroke in the "M" aligns with the long stroke for the "ew" character. In this case you can still join them without loss of clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Okay so thats how to write the glyphs. Now how do we want to arrange them? And what about punctuation? Here are some examples of Ferengi Writing.    What the treker sites say is that it is arranged like a flow chart. I have a better explanation: the ferengi are business men, business men want to know the bottom line and have an executive summary. I believe that formal ferengi writing is exactly the same thing as a diagramed sentence that you see in a grammar text book; they ACTUALLY write their sentences as diagrammed sentences. This way you have choice as to how you will read the sentence: you can just read the main sequence and skip the auxilliary phrases, or if you wish read as many of the auxilliary phrases as you wish. This method of writing would require no punctuation. On the other hand it immediatelly leads to to forms of writing: recorded speach and formal writing. Since communication is linear recorded speach would be like writing as we are accustomed. Formal writing would be like this Fernegi stuff. Anouther negative is that it does waste space. On the other hand it is different and therefore alien. I can come up with our own form of a diagrammed sentence if we want; what to do you guys think. Oh and anouther thing: alien number systems, any thoughts? Of course I have a couple ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 What program are you using to "write" in Alien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 MS Paint <_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Stew.... I think you put waaay too much thought into this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 You can NEVER put way to much thought into this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 You can NEVER put way to much thought into this  ...said Tolkien, after finishing development of his 216th elven-language dialect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 had he been properly thorough he would have fully develope Orcish; now that's a mans language. ** Stewart ducks as he awaits a swift kick from Jenny *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Okay having a nights reset made a difference. Never mind the Ferengi/Diagramed sentence thing; nobody in their right mind would actually make a for-real language that way. So the choices are:1 ) Punctuation yes or no?2 ) Direction of the script?3 ) Back and forth or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Thought the text would look good engraved in stone, as it looks very ancient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mad] Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) Okay having a nights reset made a difference. Never mind the Ferengi/Diagramed sentence thing; nobody in their right mind would actually make a for-real language that way. So the choices are:1 ) Punctuation yes or no?2 ) Direction of the script?3 ) Back and forth or not?Maybe we should orientate on old earth languages. What's the oldest scripted language found? Maybe they "learned" writing from the aliens? Edited November 23, 2005 by Mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Thad be egyptian Hieroglyphics. IIRC it goes anyway it feels like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Thought the text would look good engraved in stone, as it looks very ancient.  That looks awsome! I'm gonna snag it. What about sticking the ending text as a wood craving or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Here it is in wood. I really like the way this came out, it actually looks as though it's been carved into the bark of a tree. I think this text should definately be implemented in many ways into the game, perhaps on walls in or on UFO's. in Cydonia as well (or its xenocide equivalent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Amazing! How 'bout both materials with the ending script (in post #12). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 This one is cropped better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Amazing! How 'bout both materials with the ending script (in post #12).  I was afraid you were going to ask that. You didn't perhaps do that in photoshop did you? with the text a separate layer from the back ground? I'll do it but it will take a while to copy your script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 MS Paint, bitmap, saved as a jpg or gif, I forget. If it wont be rewarding for you then never mind. Hey can you do Neon? I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) MS Paint, bitmap, saved as a jpg or gif, I forget. If it wont be rewarding for you then never mind. Well if its for xenocide then sure its rewarding . It could just be a little tedious. I'll post it when it's done...it is for xenocide right? Sure neon is way easier than wood or rock. I may even be able to do it without having to copy your script. Edited November 24, 2005 by testarossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Xenocide = Fun. It's for Fun. Therefore it's for Xenocide. Â Hey can you do Neon? I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Xenocide = Fun. It's for Fun. Therefore it's for Xenocide.  Hey can you do Neon? I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great.  Here I found a way to copy your text, it should be no problem now, and fun as well . Still will take a while though. Here's neon in the mean time.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 So here it is in wood, looks pretty cool but I think rock might work this best for this and it could also be more likely to be found on Mars than wood, I'll work on that one tommorrow, but for now sleep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Heres the text in rock, looks pretty nice! I could picture that at cyndonia. Whats it called in Xenocide Thato...something? Something mythological perhaps? Also in reference to the oldest languages, a mesopotamian, rather sumerian writing is the oldest. And this looks Sumerian which is really cool perhaps the aliens passed it on to humans!  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 This ones even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Whee, fun with the Alien language   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Whee, fun with the Alien language   Applying an overdose of Photoshop filters does not help to improve the legibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 (edited) Whee, fun with the Alien language   <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Applying an overdose of Photoshop filters does not help to improve the legibility <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was having fun , though you can't say that the second one doesn't look very alien  The first one looks as legible as the original, though, and looks nice Edited November 25, 2005 by Azrael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Testarosa those look awsome!!!!! Azrael the first one is nice; different fonts; hmmmm?The second one . . . . well . . . uh . . . yer a great guy Az. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 (edited) Testarosa those look awsome!!!!! Azrael the first one is nice; different fonts; hmmmm?The second one . . . . well . . . uh . . . yer a great guy Az.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Edited November 25, 2005 by Azrael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted November 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Now there is only one thing left to do;Â explain what the heck this is. I mean, I don't get it at all. I can't see any logic in it. The player may want to be able to reverse engineer the code - don't make it too hard. Because I don't get lobster of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testarossa Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Ask Vaaish he seemed to grasp it quickly:Â http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?sh...c=242024570&hl=Â Me, I have no idea how it works, I just thing it looks cool and alien. I think it would be cool to have this writing in the battlescape, like written on the interior walls of UFO, and on Monitors in the control rooms etc. I'll make a metalic one and post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafros Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language Language Construction Kit  History of the Greek LanguageLinear B You may find something useful in the first one.DO have a look at the 2nd link! The last ones may give you some inspiration . For example, ancient greeks didn't have commas or spaces... Edited November 25, 2005 by kafros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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