[stewart] Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Can Russia be lost to the aliens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gufu Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 It cam be lost only for having low score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Can't be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I know that's the theory (I started it after all) but I want hard confirmation. Zombieeeeeeeee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I know that's the theory (I started it after all) but I want hard confirmation. Zombieeeeeeeee.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am basing my affirmation from Zombie's posts and research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gufu Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Russia can't be infeltrated-but it can quit because your score is well -too low! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azrael Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Don't worry about losing the game when lots of countries pull out. From extensive (and often excessive - which is a good thing) testing done by our resident data gatherer, Zombie, Russia can not defect. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 As far as I can tell, Russia cannot be infiltrated. And actually, Russia cannot quit either if your score is too low. Test: after all the countries except Russia switched sides, I intentionally alternated between getting a good and a very bad month. Russia never quit. (And getting 2 terrible months in a row is terms for X-COM immediate dismissal, so this isn't an option either). I know that's the theory (I started it after all) but I want hard confirmation. Zombieeeeeeeee.Like I said before, I couldn't seem to get Russia to withdraw. However, I only checked this out a couple times. I think I still have the original saved game which I used for these tests. At the point of the save no countries had left yet, so that is the best starting point. If I continue to get the same results with this scenario, then perhaps a new game where my lone base is located in the US instead of Europe might help. I have my doubts though. Let me run through a few more trials to see what happens. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted December 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 If true, Russia being so big really effects base placement strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Indeed. *Zombie slowly backs his base away from Russia* They'll never notice I'm gone, right? Then it might be a good idea to double-up base placement at high funding areas like Europe or the US. But not so close where the radars overlap. That's wasteful. :wink1: - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) I finally got ticked off enough to start some trials again in earnest. This time, I'm doing things properly. Built bases on all the continents except for Europe... the closest outposts are in North Africa and in Siberia (NE Siberia). All 8 of my bases have 10 soldiers each (each soldier has max stats and wears a Flying Suit). In the stores are 10 laser rifles, 10 psi-amps and 200 units of Elerium. The weapons and the psi-amps are for the rare case if I need to defend my base or take out an alien base. As for facilities, I have the usual 3 hangars, access lift, 3 general stores, and one living quarters but also for good measure I have a small radar, large radar, hyperwave decoder and 4 mind shields too (I figure if one mind shield is good, 4 are better since we don't know if multiple facilities like this help). To round everything out, each base has 3 Avengers (see why I need that Elerium now?), and each Avenger is equipped with dual Fusion Ball Launchers with 200 units of ammo (Hatfarm's editor can't make craft ammo higher than 100 so I had to manually edit craft.dat to allow it). Then I made another copy of the game for later use (if I use up all the Elerium or Fusion Balls on the Avengers, I just copy base.dat and craft.dat back into the game and I'm maxed out again). So this is a very high-powered game. If anyone wants a copy, let me know. Right now, I'm almost a year in (Dec 1, 1999) on Beginner using the Collector's Edition. There are 5 alien bases on the map (probably one or two more somewhere), and 4 countries have turned so far. In this order: Brazil, UK, France, and Germany. I'll have to continue the trials tomorrow because it'll take longer now (I'm probably going to eradicate a few alien bases to prevent the loc.dat file from getting full, because if it does, no more UFO's can spawn). Then it should all be downhill from there. Having a properly constructed save state you can fall back on is of paramount importance in testing. - Zombie Edited October 22, 2008 by Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Made some more progress last night. Now I'm up to April 2000 and all heck is breaking loose. Crashed UFOs litter the landscape and more show up on radar. (Sometimes I detect 2 or 3 UFOs for every 10 minute sweep). One of my bases got invaded by the aliens which was quickly squelched by the troops stationed there. I might have missed one of the retaliation scouts it seems, but no matter: of all the retaliation attempts, that was the only one to make it through. So the scenario is this: CE on Beginner, shoot down all the small retaliation ships, but leave the last two Battleships alone. Chances are they will not detect your base with those Mind Shields. And as far as the eye can see, there are alien bases. There must be 15-20 of them already and it keeps my Avengers busy shooting down the resupply ships. Most of the bases the aliens constructed were on speculation, but there are a few which popped up due to infiltration. All these interceptions have me sitting pretty on points too - at the end of an average month my score is between 8-12k. As it stands, 7 countries have turned: Brazil, UK, France Germany, Italy, Spain and China. Do you see a pattern developing? After Brazil fell, the aliens went right down the country list starting from the UK. Since the next one is Japan, I'm guessing that's where the aliens will focus on next. I'm by no means suggesting this is the order the aliens always use, but it is for my campaign. The litmus test is whether the aliens do the exact same thing if I reload the game from the beginning. We'll see though. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) I called it: Japan left right after China did. Then I speculated that India was next. Correct-o-mundo. No guesses after that since Brazil was already gone. Turns out the aliens went after the USA. So that's where it stands at the beginning of Nov 2000. The only countries left are: Russia (knock on wood), Australia, Nigeria, South Africa, Egypt and Canada. We'll see what happens next. I must have removed 6 bases off the map in a couple of months which was a pain with only a 10 man crew to work with. There are still plenty left though and some will have to be eradicated to keep tabs on everything. Alien activity is still really high (it's up to UFO-833 right now) but my activity always trumps since shooting down a constant stream of Supply Ships adds a ton of points. The best thing about my setup is I haven't had to visit a single terror site - my Hyperwaves and Avengers make sure of that. Late Edit: Canada, Nigeria and Egypt just fell to the aliens and Australia is on the way (the mission is scheduled, it just hasn't run to completion by the end of the month). So that leaves Russia and South Africa as the lone holdouts. Must... run... more... tests! - Zombie Edited October 23, 2008 by Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Date: May 2001. I'm up to UFO-1200. Australia turned as expected a few months back and now there are infiltration UFOs buzzing around South Africa. At the end of May/beginning of June, South Africa crumbled too. Now it's only Russia. I'll run it forward a few months to see if Russia turns but I doubt it. This is about the 4th or 5th game I ran through and each time Russia was the last country left. So this can't be just a matter of coincidence. Russia is the last country left for a reason. I'm thinking this is a bug as the programmers probably meant to have all countries sign pacts eventually. Maybe Russia's boarders aren't defined in the executable properly and thus the aliens can't target it properly? That's the only thing I can think of since Russia never seems to experience infiltration missions. Odd stuff. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Russia is the only country that spans regions as Geoscape defines them. Perhaps it is as Pavel Checkov says "Yeah and I'm Czar of all the Russias". Maybe countries cannot span regions as geoscape models them and so Russia is actually several countries (europe, central asia, east asia). For stats they mix the group stats together but maybe if one "turns" the others pulls it back correcting the loyalty flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Recently I have started to doubt the region spanning idea for Russia. It of course is entirely possible the multi-region span is what causes Russia to hold fast, but it's almost like it is completely invisible to the aliens in terms of infiltrations. What I think is going on is that there are boarders which define the outline of an area for each country. Then there is probably a flag which indicates which country that area corresponds to. My theory is that the flag is set incorrectly for Russia which makes it a non-country (and hence can't be infiltrated). It makes sense as the game is already riddled with bugs and it wouldn't be the first time a bug has shown up in the executable either. Anyway, just a theory. Once the boarder info is fully understood, we'll know more. Edit: Just to hit on another theory, infiltration missions may be set up so the aliens go to a random "free" country within a region. (Say the game picks the next mission should go in Europe, it then picks a random uninfiltrated country from the list and tries to turn it... like Germany or something). Russia may not be on any of those regional lists and thus can't be infiltrated. Just as likely. - Zombie Edited October 23, 2008 by Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Harkov Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 (edited) There's something in my last game that makes me suspect something may be going on that can relate to this. I have my main base South of the SI of "RUSSIA", a bit South rom the border. I had three times a retaliation battleship fly toward my bas and turning around just when it was one ship cross width away from it and a few scouts in retaliation missions that have flought right above my base or one cross by before my fighters could fight them. I have no mind shields yet.. I've had no base attacks yet and it's June or almost, when in other games at this time I had already three base defense mission at least. Moscow is Northwest, a good distance West, but perhaps there's something about that piece of map. Edited December 21, 2008 by Admiral Harkov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[stewart] Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Maybe one of the programmers at microprose was russian. if country == russia { runaway(gamestate);else executemission(gamestate);} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 In Soviet Russia, "you" infiltrate the "aliens". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintD Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Maybe one of the programmers at microprose was russian. if country == russia { runaway(gamestate);else executemission(gamestate);} I would have guessed an off by one error. When "one of these things is not like the others" that's a usual culprit. However, this hypothesis is suspect. USA and Canada are the head and tail or the country list. And Siberia is safely in the middle of the regions list. The head and tail are where these errors strike. Looking at the ACTS.DAT file also seems to point to another cause. I say that because aliens do missions by regions, not by countries. What does your ZONAL.DAT file look like in your game with nothing but Russia standing? perhaps there is a clue there. It would also be interesting to see the priorities by region as the game progresses and you lose countries. I think that the "Russia spans zones" hypothesis is still viable. Does anyone know enough to edit a game to change the borders? If russia can fall if it's confined to one zone, that would be pretty convincing. DIPLOM.DAT might also hold some clues. Does Russia's happyness fluctuate from 1-3 and just never hit 0? Or does it hit 0 but Russia doesn't care? If Russia hits 0 in this file, it would indicate some special handling. -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adun_Toridas Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 i think that mother russia can not be infiltrated, since FSB is quite effective... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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