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#1 Deimos

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:11 PM

A short while ago the chryssalid zombie stage model was asked about so without further ado here's an unfortunate victim. All in the name of science, you understand.

I figured that as the poison is coursing through the body an element of the humanity (in this case the horror of what's happened to them is still apparent in the face. Obviosuly when in the zombie stage the walk animation is gonna have to be that classic 'dead' walk, dragging the feet and so on.

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#2 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:14 PM

Could we get it so that there is a bulge in the body, so it is appearant that there is something growing inside the body?
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#3 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:31 PM

Yeah, a few bumps to show the hidden [chrysallid] inside would be sweet.
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#4 Anthraxus

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:41 PM

that looks cool. Although the expression should be extreme rage not horror, at least according to the writeup. A bit of bloat would add a good touch.
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#5 Breunor

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:50 PM

What about having the bulges jump about, sort of like "swimming bulges", instead of static areas sticking out, they move around some? Could be hard to animate it though. Maybe just a "bursting at the seams" look, like she's swollen everywhere?

#6 Foozball

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:54 PM

I keep getting Men In Black flashbacks....
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#7 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 04:37 PM

mmmm zombie movies
yeah, Men in Black - I'll have to watch it again.
Also "Plan 9 from Outer Space" has a great zombie <snurk> what a fine movie that is.
I've got 'Braindead' hiding somewhere at work too. superb

We could have an animated bumpmap or pixel shader to do swimming lumps. they'd have to be pretty big to show in battlescape though.

Maybe they don't just drop and split open. maybe the chysallid just keeps coming, and the bits of person just drop off as it walks.

#8 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 04:43 PM

Wouldn't we have to decrease the chryssalid natural gestation time then? (As in the amount of time it takes for a chryssalid to burst out of a host without being shot)
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#9 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 05:14 PM

nahhh.
I'm just saying the burst phase doesn't happen on the floor with the corpse immobile, the point where is goes from infected human to chryssalid would take the same time, just that all the human wouldn't have fallen off yet. :explode:

The chryssalid has hardenned off, but is still dragging bits along with it and wearing a human cloak

#10 Foozball

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 07:47 PM

mmmm zombie movies
yeah, Men in Black - I'll have to watch it again. 
Also "Plan 9 from Outer Space" has a great zombie <snurk> what a fine movie that is.
I've got 'Braindead' hiding somewhere at work too. superb

As long as you've got a lot a source material to work with, that's cool. :)



BTW, if the current choice is between either bits of the zomibe falling off or bulges under the skin, I go with bulges. That just seems creepier; more 'alien-esque' and less 'horror-movie-esque'.

Although I suppose its plausible to have both at the same time.
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#11 Breunor

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 09:08 PM

Of course, a horrible scream followed by the human body exploding in all directions would be pretty funny/cool. Use the fading texture effect from Warcraft's catapult, and apply it to blood and body parts! Yes it's gory but it would certainly be memorable!

#12 mamutas

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 09:54 PM

"Cg Programming" book has an example of a shader, which makes the model covered with moving bulges. Pictures are really impressive. There was even a online version of that chapter on GamaSutra.com, but unfortunately i cannot get to it now. I will post picture here as soon as I get it.
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#13 Micah

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 10:05 PM

nahhh.
I'm just saying the burst phase doesn't happen on the floor with the corpse immobile, the point where is goes from infected human to chryssalid would take the same time, just that all the human wouldn't have fallen off yet.

The chryssalid has hardenned off, but is still dragging bits along with it and wearing a human cloak

I second Drewid's vision of this :)

Bumpmapped swimming lumps would look really good, too.

Deimos: very nice, Deimos! Now give us a second concept following Drewid's thoughts... :naughty:

#14 Puasonen

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 03:17 AM

If those swimming lumps are too hard to implement then it's ok to leave them out but that would definitely look cool. I think that first concept looks great but I agree with everyone that it should look more like there's growing something inside. Chryssalids are bigger that humans so it should show somehow.
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#15 Foozball

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 01:06 PM

Or even...
Chryssalids are spiky, right?
Have some of the spikes pierce through in some places, as well as bulges/dripping flesh/etc.
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#16 Deimos

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 02:17 PM

that looks cool.  Although the expression should be extreme rage not horror, at least according to the writeup.  A bit of bloat would add a good touch.

Rage???

I think the last thing on anyone's mind (if they've got anything left of it) after being injected with a poison or toxin would be anger.

Research up on snakebites, spider bites and box jellyfish stings and any other fast acting poisons entering the bloodstream and lethargy is a more common effect followed by a lapse into unconciousness.

With such a fast (4secs) transforming poision and the psychological effect of being impregnated by a Chryssalid horror would be very apparent (Heck its the only alien in the game that still worries me as they're pretty much a guaranted kill if they get in range.) on the face of the victim. That's where I've gone with this, the last emotion fixed on the victims face.

---

I don't know whether lumps would work well or not, I guess I'd have to see it in animation to appreciate it. As for a concept drawing, there won't really be much to see apart from disfigurements in odd places which'll just make the concept 'look' wrong. So I'll leave it as it is until we can see it in motion.

I like Drewids idea of the lumps of human dropping off, that would work well with the necrotisized flesh look I did in the concept and would keep the link to the original zombie as well.

I don't like the idea of the Chryss growing inside (too much like the aliens films) I was thinking more along the lines that the poison kills off the host's higher functions (hence locking in the last emotion) and then goes to work forcibly rewriting the dna structures to fit it's grisly purpose.

That way the necrotised flesh fits in and also the extraenous bits the 'baby' chryssalid doesn't need, fall off, like Drewid mentions.

Micah, I'll work on Drewid's vision. Just expect sickness ;)

Edited by Deimos, 10 February 2004 - 02:19 PM.


#17 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 03:01 PM

I was thinking more along the lines that the poison kills off the host's higher functions (hence locking in the last emotion) and then goes to work forcibly rewriting the dna structures to fit it's grisly purpose.



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#18 Anthraxus

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 03:12 PM

As I wrote it up in the CTD, the neurotoxin induces a psychopathic, homicidal rage state. This helps ensure that the zombie will place itself in dangerous situations. This is desirable because the new Spawn will be birthed when the host dies, whether due to the toxin and subsequent metamorphisis or due to wounds. Your right, most earthly toxins cause lethargy, however this is not a toxin of earth. If you think horror would be a more appropriate facial expression, fine, but that opens up the argument on why the zombies attack, and why they only attack humans, again.

The toxin does rewrite the DNA structures, starting with the major organs, therefore there is no "birthing" or "growing" Spawn in the victim. The victim itself becomes the Spawn. Although the swimming bumps could be explained as the new organs and internal structures shifting and moving into new alignments.

Edited by Anthraxus, 10 February 2004 - 03:14 PM.

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#19 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 03:24 PM

so if the head gets finished first the human face could split away as the cryss head hardens up?

#20 Anthraxus

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 04:21 PM

Yeah. That would work.
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#21 mamutas

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 10:23 PM

Here is the image I was talking about. It was done with nVidia CG programming.

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#22 Breunor

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:04 AM

Yeah, I was thinking of something like The Matrix #1, where Neo enters agent Smith and he starts bubbling under the skin. Just a few of those here and there, but larger of course.

Really I don't think the work involved will be worth the results though, this isn't first person perspective where you can appreciate it. I agree that having chunks fall off would work well, does anybody remember the end of the movie The Fly, the Jeff Goldblum version? Just accelerate his condition, and there you go, precisely what has been described here.

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#23 Foozball

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:42 AM

Here's what I don't get, though:
If the current idea is that the zombie is being physically transformed into a Chryssalid, then how does shooting it a bunch of times complete the transformation (rather than kill it)? :huh?:
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#24 MagicAndy

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 02:33 AM

One idea would be to have the physical transformation take place quickly (i.e. moments after the injection) and the zombie shamble around with the full grown Spawn inside, until a) it emerges naturally or b ) is force to emerge.

Discovering a zombie would be no problem, since the player cannot tell how long ago the person was infected.

But for witnessing an infection the rules of time progression would have to be twisted a little to allow the Spawn to form before you got a chance to shoot at the zombie.

Perhaps a short rendered (skippable) cut scene if you witness an infection, starting with the injection and ending with a bloated zombie with the full grown Spawn now present.

Edited by MagicAndy, 11 February 2004 - 04:27 AM.


#25 Puasonen

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 03:56 AM

Really I don't think the work involved will be worth the results though, this isn't first person perspective where you can appreciate it. I agree that having chunks fall off would work well, does anybody remember the end of the movie The Fly, the Jeff Goldblum version? Just accelerate his condition, and there you go, precisely what has been described here.

That's a great idea. Those movies scared me when I saw them the first time. (I was young then :pink: ) They were great!
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#26 Breunor

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:30 AM

Regarding the time frame of human-infected pussbag-Spawn, we are fighting an alien invasion which has various monsters killing us with plasma guns... I think explaining away the transformation is a moot point. How many people here complained about it in the original version? (besides when it was your soldiers being taken out, of course!)

#27 tzuchan

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 08:23 AM

Personally, I was more busy screaming and ordering my troops away from those terrifying creatures to bother about long it took them to gestate...
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#28 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 09:01 AM

Here's what I don't get, though:
If the current idea is that the zombie is being physically transformed into a Chryssalid, then how does shooting it a bunch of times complete the transformation (rather than kill it)? :huh?:

You probably just rip the zombie's stomach open, I think.
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#29 jelorol

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 09:18 AM

Well, why do not take a "The Thing" approach? I am referring to this movie:

http://homepage.powe...thing/thing.htm

The alien lifeform takes control and reshapes the human host through several stages. At the beginning the infected host looks perfectly human, but at the end...

#30 Anthraxus

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 09:44 AM

Notice the line in there about how it can take "the Thing" up to 60 minutes to assimilate a new victim? We only have 4 seconds in a worst case scenario (Spawn attacks victim, Next action is from Xcorp soldier who shoots and kills zombie, making new Spawn) There is no satisfactory way to explain how the transformation can be done that quickly. Although I have a unique twist and will be posting it in the Chryssalid Thread shortly.
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#31 Puasonen

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 01:23 AM

Guess it would be too much work having more than one zombie model? Like stage1 zombie, stage2 zombie and stage3 zombie.

Stage1 = Zombie for 2 first turns, would look a lot like deimos' concept
Stage2 = For turns 3-4 after injection, something between deimos' concept and the pic of the FLY which breunor posted.
Stage3 = For turns 5-10 or until it gets shot and transformed completely to chryssalid. Looking a lot like that pic breunor posted.

It would be a lot of work but would be nice? :huh?:

edit
Oh, and all stages would have the same behaving pattern so no excessive AI stuff needed.

Edited by Nyyperoid, 12 February 2004 - 01:25 AM.

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#32 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 08:25 AM

What if the chrysallid only took over the nervous system, like the Goa'uld? No one seemed to complain when they were able to take people over in a few seconds. The shell can be produced by an enzyme reaction with young skin cells, leaving a little skin left over. A few shots gets rid of that dead skin, leaving a very fine chrysallid. The full transformation would need a few hours/weeks to happen, but a new combat-ready chrysallid would be done in a few seconds. :)
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#33 kafros

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:21 AM

http://homepage.powe.../day/d-biol.htm

Zombie biology, thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's nice :happybanana: :happybanana:
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#34 mikker

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 05:47 AM

If zombies attack all types of live organisms, that means that if a cow gets in the way, the zombie will get distracted for a time.

Cool. :P

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#35 Blehm 98

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 11:58 PM

YOu know, could you put up dummys to try and distract them?
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#36 kafros

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 12:21 AM

^_^ ^_^ ^_^

#37 mikker

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 02:50 AM

I don't think the x-corps scientists could be THAT creative :P

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#38 Level

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 01:32 PM

Here is my Idea for some Zombies.

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In a 3D world is there a diferance between these: bdpq|\-/?

#39 fux0r666

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:19 PM

Alright. I like this concept of having some kind of alien organism/infection visible.. and not have these zombies which were created like 10 seconds ago looking like they were in the dirt for a month and a half. Really good thinking.

Could you explain your concept a little more thuroughly, though?

For instance, what's up with the hands? Did you just draw them like that or are they distended for a reason? Stuff like that. Explain the design decisions :)

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:34 PM

Yes the hands are supposed to be swollen so is the rest of the body, from the poison and the creature growing inside.

The egg should be more inside then it appears (because of quick coloring) and may be better as something else, as the creature is already growing throughout the body, but I wanted to have something visible.

I liked the idea of their faces being stuck in perpetual shock or fear so I tried to do that and have a crooked neck and dislocated jaw, and the drool from the original X-com.

This has some more detail:

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In a 3D world is there a diferance between these: bdpq|\-/?

#41 Vaaish

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 03:30 PM

I don't think that the egg should be visible at all. I'd like to see a zombie that looks like a human with a look of forzen terror or excruciating pain. I'd also like to see it look las it parts of him were changing into the creature as the victims DNA is rewritten. So parts that might be fully alien and parts that are still human but greyer.

I see these as more a tortured soul in great pain, terrified still able to move and run like a normal human but not in control of their bodies anymore.

Edited by Vaaish, 24 January 2006 - 03:32 PM.